Think Progress debunks Chicago Tribune Bush apologist's lies

[More Than A Feeling]

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/21/appeals-court-myth

This think progress article is debunking an editorial that appeared in the Chicago Tribune. The editorial has been the most emailed Tribune article since it was published, so the claims in it are probably going to be showing up in every conservative's talking points. Too bad it's filled with lies (shock o' shocks). Think Progress takes them down.

[TheFarseer]

1. The problem with this debate is

no one even understands what we are debating - myself included. Some people are even saying the current law says you have to hang up on Osama if you don't have a warrant. I heard you can wire tap up to 72 hours without a warrant and then get one. The guy I was talking to last night said it was a year! Then he was talking about how they change phones constantly and it's hard to get warrant after warrant for that. I asked if the warrant was for the person or the phone and we couldn't decide on that. I hate debates like this where people don't even know the facts, they're just on the one side because Bush is on one side. And I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not tipping my hand on this debate until I understand it!

[orwell]

2. FWIW...

...I have not heard a lawyer (who was not a blatant Bushbot) claim that the law was not broken. Even AG Gonzales as much as admitted it. What the Bushies assert is that the Executive Branch's authority in times of war allows them to ignore the law. This is essentially what the debate is about. Can the President break the law to protect Americans in time of war?

The accepted judicial precedent is that if the President breaks the law to protect the union, he must admit as such after the fact and present his actions for review, and possible impeachment, before the Congress.

As far as FISA is concerned, the President can authorize a warrant-less search as long as he gets FISA court approval within 72 hours of the initiation of the wiretap. So the lame excuse that the Bushies are hanging out there that they evaded FISA oversight because of the need for speed doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They clearly broke the FISA law. This is a criminal offense. That part is clear.

The main thrust of the argument is going to revolve around the authorization of the use of force by the Congress soon after the 9/11 attacks. In essence, this is interpreted by the Bushies as a carte blanche for Presidential power in time of war.

Another real problem is the exclusionary rule. If the FISA court can not know whether evidence presented to them to get a warrant was obtained illegally (through probable cause) or illegally (through non-FISA approved wiretap), they can not, in good faith, execute a valid warrant. This is why the FISA court judge resigned and others may follow. The Bushies have essentially tainted the well.

[More Than A Feeling]

3. It's 72 hours

(f) Emergency orders
Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, when the Attorney General reasonably determines that—
(1) an emergency situation exists with respect to the employment of electronic surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence information before an order authorizing such surveillance can with due diligence be obtained; and
(2) the factual basis for issuance of an order under this subchapter to approve such surveillance exists;
he may authorize the emergency employment of electronic surveillance if a judge having jurisdiction under section 1803 of this title is informed by the Attorney General or his designee at the time of such authorization that the decision has been made to employ emergency electronic surveillance and if an application in accordance with this subchapter is made to that judge as soon as practicable, but not more than 72 hours after the Attorney General authorizes such surveillance.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00001805----000-.html

Roving wiretaps were specifically invented to counter the changing phones technique.

"To "rove" means to wander from place to place, with no particular destination. A "roving wiretap" is a tap on any telephone that a suspect uses, roving from one telephone to another, with no particular locational target. The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation is now authorized to engage in roving wiretaps without having to get approval by a court." http://www.progress.org/archive/fold79.htm

As you can see, the information is out there, if you want it. The people who don't have the facts are the Bush apologists, who are just saying whatever they think will help him, regardless of whether its true. DU, as you know, is one of the best places to find the facts.

[TheFarseer]

4. thanks to both of you

I can't stand debating without the facts! Wish republicans had that hang up.

[Ezlivin]

5. Republicans simply can't stand debating, with or without the facts

It's an ongoing investigation.