Solstice Harrassment

[Crowdance]

Mr. Crow and I tried to celebrate the Solstice by burning a Yule log in our little copper fire bowl in the back yard, and by making sweet-smelling offerings to Spirit in gratitude and for a blessed year ahead. We tried, despite our neighbor shouting "psycho" through the fence separating our yards. And, despite the fact that they called the fire department, who felt it was within their right to interrupt our ritual to inspect our fire.

This, to my family, was equivalent to my standing outside the neighbor's church during Christmas mass shouting names, then calling the fire department to report the building was on fire. And then, having the fire department enter the church to inspect how they burn the incense.

I can't help but feel that the bogus "war against Christmas" is what emboldens people to think it's reasonable to treat those of other religions so poorly. I now understand that it may be necessary for those of us with certain spiritual practices to "go underground" in Bush's America.

[Beelzebud]

1. Sorry to hear that. :/

The idiot was probably a "peace loving christian" too...

[Goblinmonger]

2. I'm sorry

I hope that you were still able to have a nice yule celebration.

As an atheist, I took a few minutes during lunch at 12:35 to anticipate the return of the sun. I wish you well in you quest to be able to "freely exercise" your religion.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Send them a little present

Nothing sarcastic, though -- make it a real, actual present.

A trinket or decoration, or even a bottle of wine.

It's a tradition in pagan and Christian faiths alike to offer friendship in response to ignorance. It often has an amazing effect on the recipient, especially if the recipient has been a jerk.

Christian jerks often respond to the idea that pagans are more Christian than most Christians with a combination of shame and enlightenment. Amen!

--p!

[Solomon]

4. Good way to respond. It will shame them.

[Beelzebud]

6. You know. Thats actually a GREAT idea, IMO.

Kill them with kindness, and show them what a real peace loving religion is all about!

They'll know inside they are rotten, and you are good. They may not say it, but they'll know it.

[Crowdance]

10. Perfect!

I'm so shaken I would never have thought of that myself. I'll bring a nice red wine to them tomorrow evening.

[Beelzebud]

12. Do it! It will be so satisfying! Kill them with kindness.

[LittleClarkie]

21. Which is, ironically enough, in the Bible

Ephesians actually:

"If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you."

Otherwise known as, killing someone with kindness...

[Beelzebud]

22. Yep. That's why it's such a great idea. :)

Like stabbing a Happy Fork in their eye. :D

[Crowdance]

26. Well, I'll have a hard time shaking that image as I walk over there

tomorrow evening. Should help to keep the smile on my face no matter what!

[chrisbur]

30. Perhaps

a consumable might not be the best idea. Their suspicion might undermine any potentially positive effect.

[Crowdance]

34. Hmm. Witch's brew? Maybe the trinket idea, then.....

[chrisbur]

35. Yes beads and ax heads have worked well for me.

If they get really bad try a smallpox infected blanket.

[Crowdance]

39. I was thinking more along the lines of a sun-shaped ornament

for their tree....but the blanket might be a nice gesture....

[Ladyhawk]

83. Some Christians are teetotalers.

My family was. It might be a good idea to get them something that isn't alcoholic. n/t

[hvn_nbr_2]

53. At first I didn't know if by "them" you meant neighbors or fire department

It might not be a bad idea to send something small but friendly like cookies to the fire house that responded. It would accomplish a couple purposes: set you apart from the wacko neighbors and make it look to the firefighters like you're the sane ones here; do some education to reinforce to the fire department anything you said about your ritual religious practice. Next time, if there is a next time, the fire department is likely to think, "Oh, it's those wackos complaining again. We have to respond to the call so we'll go wish the sane people a happy Yule and be gone."

I think this approach is more likely to result in a positive future than making a big stink. You can accompany it with a clear statement too, of course; I think education works better than stink for a first offense. This idea obviously assumes that the fire department people are sane and professional, which is probably pretty likely.

[druidity33]

63. much better idea than politicat's

Fire Dept folk are kinda like librarians IMO, sensible and kind when tested. Get to know them a little, volunteer at their pancake breakfasts, let them know beforehand if you're having a burn for a special occasion. Take a fire safety course, so they know you're responsible, maybe even CPR certification. Lots of reasons to get involved with your local FD.

[maxsolomon]

72. a copy of the "God Warrior" episode of Wife Swap

its a holiday classic

yes, yes; :sarcasm:

[CelticWinter]

5. sorry to hear

that your celebration was ruined by someone who is so closed minded they cant accept such a wonderful time of the year. And yes I do agree that certain spiritual practices will go underground due to narrow minds.

~~Celtic

[politicat]

7. Complain to the fire marshall, the mayor and file a charge of harassment

with the police against the neighbor.

Take it to city hall - fire bowls are legal and safe, and you were not doing anything illegal. Tell the fire marshall you want a written apology from the department for their disruption of your religious observance.

Make a stink. Remind them that not all of their citizens are christian or even judeo-christian-islamic. You have every right to practice your faith and do as you please.

http://www.conjure.com/ERAL/ The Earth Religions Legal Assistance Network may be of use.

Best wishes - I was harassed by the cops for being pagan when I was in that part of my spiritual journey. Pulled over 19 times in 17 months (never ticketed) for having the temerity to drive an older car with bumper stickers proclaiming that yes indeedy, I do in fact have civil rights.

[Crowdance]

15. Yes, the Fire Marshall will hear from me.

I'm not shy about writing letters or speaking at hearings. This won't go down quietly....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. Oooooooh..... illegal fire... ranks right up there with wiretaps....

how sad someone needs to do this... how sad indeed, pity them for their emptiness.... sorry to hear you are going through this sort of thing in so say the greatest and most free democracy on the planet.

[KingFlorez]

9. This is exactly what O'Reilly wants

For others to dissrepect other traditions.

[Beelzebud]

18. Exactly. The O'Rielly's thrive on Americans being divided.

And unfortunately, it's mostly working. Today in my local paper EVERY single editorial were christians complaining about "their right to celebrate christmas being taken away".

It's just stupid. Utterly stupid.

[Texasgal]

11. How horrible!!

What did the fire department say?

I hope you are able to continue your celebration without bullshit.... :hug:

[Crowdance]

17. They were all business.

When I explained that they were interrupting a religious ritual, they just stared at me. When I explained we're pagan, the "lead" fire guy rolled his eyes at one of the "officers." I'd have been humiliated if I weren't so angry.

[LostinVA]

96. I would call the FD Chief AND the city attorney for that eye roll

Fuck them -- they broke your civil rights on several levels.

[niallmac]

13. Enjoy your freedoms.

As long as they are socially, majority approved freedoms. Your freedoms should not require that geographically isolated provincials have to exercise any degree of understanding or accommodation. Freedoms of speech, behavior etcetera are all strictly defined by what 'Americans' feel comfortable with. Freedom of speech does not exist.
Try speaking out against war immediately post 911. Try to hold a conversation explaining why people in other countries have many valid reasons to hate us and to pray for our destruction. You do not have to support these beliefs. Just try to have a conversation that dares to explore the perspective of the other side. IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

[Warpy]

14. I suggest a careful salting of their front lawn

I leave the symbol and/or word(s) to you.

[Crowdance]

20. Oh, it's not the grass' fault that the folks living on it are so bad.

I feel bad for their grass and one remaning tree. The others had to go to make room for the oversized pool.
They had asked us early on to cut down our giant old maple too, because it cast shade on their pool. Perhaps our refusal is the source of their ire.

[Warpy]

48. I know that

but 'tis the season to be hostile, frazzled, overworked, and overextended.

I'll be better by February.

[Occulus]

75. Ask the tree to permit tentworms on itself on that side nest year

Let them drop in the pool. :D

(only half-:sarcasm:)

[dapper]

16. Winter Solstice... today?

I thought it was tomorrow... I don't celebrate it per say but I have to remember to call a dear friend of mine who does.

Dap

[Crowdance]

25. A good thing about the Solstice is that is more of a process than a day

I actually started celebrating on Sunday, and will still celebrate/contemplate/meditate through the rest of the week. So, you're definitely not too late!

[robbedvoter]

19. "We tolerate them as long as they shut up" was a "War on Christmas"

talk that Malloy quoted once. They reaffirmed that they were the majority and everyone else should obey or else. Of course, the so call war on Christmas" is a thinly disuised theologic fascism.
South Park (which on religious themes is good) nailed it:
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/southparkchefaidmrhankeyschristmasclassics/merryfuckingchristmas.htm

[femrap]

23. I would bet that Spirit will not look fondly on

your silly neighbor.

Yeah, w has emboldened the american taliban...

[Crowdance]

29. I fear that for them.

I hope the offerings we were abe to make can extend over the fence.

[femrap]

43. Maybe they will learn....

but it will be learning the hard way...

[kliljedahl]

24. Peace and love to you

http://dragonflihost.net/bring_back_the_light.htm

http://dragonflihost.net/may_the_circle_be_open.htm

http://dragonflihost.net/winds-of-change.htm




Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Crowdance]

31. And to you, in this new year being born. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

49. Wow

Thanks for that link. I did not know Gypsy had put out a remastered version of Bring Back The Light. I Always play that one on the Winter Solstice.

[kliljedahl]

64. Link on another thread fom the host to buy it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5661337&mesg_id=5662538



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. I am very sorry to hear that. Intolerance is alive and well in Amerikkka

[lildreamer316]

28. Sometimes

it's hard to remember the rule of three affects all of us; even those who don't believe in it.(physics)
Blessed be...

[Crowdance]

33. Thanks for the reminder and the comfort.

[ohio_liberal]

32. I hope that you have a happy celebration despite the intolerance

:hug:

[Crowdance]

36. Thanks for the hug. It helps!

[Nicole]

37. Sorry to hear that

May their future celebrations be interrupted as your's was.

[Crowdance]

38. Thank you all for the support!

It's cheered me up immensely. I'll be able to have sweet dreams now of the year to come. I wish for all of you a year blessed with abundant joy, health, love and peace.

[Mojorabbit]

50. And I wish for the same to you.

May you have a magical year filled with abundance and joy.

[madeline_con]

40. I would have turned the hose on him! n/t

[Triana]

41. I'm sorry...

...that is definitely harassment. Your celebration sounds like it WOULD have been really lovely without narrow-minded hateful CHRISTians ruining it.

[oregonindy]

42. invite your neighbors over next time?

pagan out here in the NW and it is a bit different here.
Allowing others to see what you are about and invite them in helps to take out their fear based responses.


happy solstice!

[Cha]

44. I'm so sorry that you're

the ones with "psycho" neighbors.

Life is hard enough without living next door to Giant Assholes.

Happy Winter Soltice to you and your family!

[newswolf56]

45. I am truly appalled by all the people on this thread who believe...

Abrahamic Fundamentalists will respond to kindness; the ugly truth is just the opposite: they respond only to force or the threat of force. They are the Enemy, and to believe otherwise is to practice truly suicidal self-delusion:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/12/great_debate.html

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DirectoryRiseOfDominionismInAmerica.html

This is bitter experience. I have locked horns with Christian Fundamentalists many times over the years professionally (as a journalist), politically (as a First Amendment advocate) and personally (as a citizen of rural America) and I have found their northern variant to be as infinitely vicious as their southern Ku Klux Kindred, even in Washington state, where their venom is often neutralized by a relatively secular population. Living in rural Whatcom County and practicing organic gardening, I was soon informed by my Fundamentalist neighbors that "organic is Satanic" and -- in a modern-day expression of the hatred for woman and nature at the core of all Abrahamic religion -- that "if it's environmental, its of the Devil."

These same alleged humans later decided I was a "witch" who was "practicing abominations": this because I had two very large black dogs, grew pumpkins with my corn (the prickly pumpkin vines discourage deer and raccoons), and stacked my corn-stalks into shocks (to dry before grinding into compost). Could the Fundamentalists have done so, I have no doubt they would have burned me alive, but the fact I was was known to be armed disuaded them from physical attack. Instead they waged a constant campaign of telephonic threats and midnight vandalism that finally -- when they started threatening to kill my dogs -- drove me out of the area. Calling the sheriff did no good whatsoever; the Whatcom County Sheriff's Department is thoroughly infiltrated by the Fundamentalists, and whenever I called (which I did several times) they made it ominously clear their sole purpose was to protect their fellow Bible-thumpers.

If I may give you some advice, I would suggest you fight back with all the power and energy you can muster -- meticulously staying within the law of course. For starters I would contact the American Civil Liberties Union; the use of police powers for religious persecution -- which is precisely what was done to you -- is an actionable offense. So is making a false report to the fire or police authorities -- the only way your Christian neighbor could have inflicted the fire department on you. The neighbor himself is subject to lawsuit for malicious harassment. Meanwhile, publicize the case: complain to mass media, and do so loudly and bitterly, linking your persecution with larger persecutions of pagans and secularists. Check the state authorities to see if the neighbor owns firearms; if you are able to determine this, you might be able to ruin him professionally by suggesting to his employer that he is a fanatic (proven by his actions against you) who might any day "be commanded by god to shoot up the office." Use your imagination -- stay within the law; don't leave yourself open to civil suit either. But do everything within your power to retaliate: fear and violence are the ONLY stimuli to which these life-forms respond, and the only way to defeat them -- the only way to save ourselves from their obscene plan to turn the United States into a Christian theocracy -- is to battle them without quarter wherever they raise their viciously tyrannical heads.

[TheBaldyMan]

46. that sounds a bit of an over-reaction IMHO

In the past I've done some dumb things that must have deeply offended another's beliefs but it was through my own ignorance rather than malice.
I've tried not to repeat the offence, mainly through respect for another's beliefs not because of a legal sanction.

[newswolf56]

51. Fundamentalists have NO "respect" for other beliefs --

and the offences they commit are ALWAYS the product of "malice": exactly why the remedies I propose are NOT "over-reaction." (Unless of course you believe that self-defense of any kind is "over-reaction.")

[TheBaldyMan]

52. sounds like you had a really tough time ...

but i'd always try the peaceful, civil approach first especially if you live right next door and not on a big spread. It saddens me that you have been the victim of ignorance but I still can't help feeling that you may be a little confrontational yourself. I guess exercising the right to bear arms can have that effect on a guy.
I've had dealings in the past with people who seem to be so stupid you have to knock them over the head with a heavy blunt instrument before they take the hint but they weren't the folk mentioned in my earlier post. Numbnuts tend to be pretty godless unless swearing to God/mother's grave/little boy's life they're telling the truth, a barely disguised euphemism for lying ). Yes it takes legal action and flashing neon signs with 10 foot high lettering to get the message through. Thankfully these occasions are very, very rare and purely on the law of averages I'd be inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt that they aren't that stupid.

[newswolf56]

59. You miss the point: read the links.

The man who destroyed Crowdance's Solstice celebration, the people who drove me out of a region I loved -- these people are storm troopers for a theocratic credo that is the greatest threat to liberty in American history. I say again: read the links.

Meanwhile your views are increasingly perplexing. To dismiss the malevolence of Christian Fundamentalism as mere "ignorance" is to excuse the inexcusable, to forgive the unforgivable -- as if you yourself were somehow an apologist for Fundamentalism, perhaps here to downplay its murderous malice, its infinite hatred of women, of nature, of the goddess who is the diametrical opposite of the hateful and exclusive Abrahamic Fundamentalist god in that the goddess represents not only woman and nature but the ultimate wholeness of all being: no implicit conflict with science in her thealogies -- none whatsoever.

What was done to Crowdance, what was done to me -- these are but gentle foretastes of the inquisitorial horrors the Fundamentalists would unleash on all of us. The Ku Klux Klan represents precisely the same theology and theocratic intent; it is no coincidence it is known throughout the South as "the Saturday night men's Bible-study class." And the death-squad horrors of the Klan will themselves shrink in comparison to the New Inquisition the Dominionists and Reconstructionists seek to impose, complete with public burnings and stonings: this from the religion that has already inflicted more unnatural human death than all other causes combined -- creeds exterminated, whole peoples destroyed, whether by Hebrews, Christians or Muslims. Perhaps if I say it thrice you will finally hear: read the links.

The material therein makes it undeniably clear those of us who are victimized as Crowdance was, as I was, were victimized not merely by a lone fanatic or a band of cranks but ultimately by the corporate oligarchy, the Republican Party that is the oligarchy's handservant, George Bush who represents capitalism's ultimate achievement, and most of all by the JesuNazi stormtroopers Bush and the Republicans have unleashed to enforce the oligarchy's will. Crowdance was not victimized by accident; she was victimized in fulfillment of a very specific Christian Fundamentalist mandate, as was I, as is everyone who is so victimized. This is deliberate, methodical terrorism, and in the United States its specific purpose is the suppression of all religion save the harshest and most murderous forms of Christianity. If there is any excuse at all for this terrorism -- and I believe there is none whatsoever -- it is that its perpetrators are "just following orders."

And of course I am confrontational. I am always confrontational when Constitutional rights are in jeopardy: I will not play Neville Chamberlain to anyone's Munich -- especially not the Fundamentalists'.

The fact that what happened "saddens" you is irrelevant -- unless of course you are (or were) a disciple of the theology that encourages such outrages.

What saddens me is that you do not seem to grasp that the victimization of Crowdance -- or me (or anyone else so victimized) -- is in fact the victimization of us all.

[JNelson6563]

62. You are correct

This is how such things begin. We don't go from peaceful interaction of most to burnings etc overnight. No, this is gradual and it has begun. The longer a blind eye is turned to this sort of behavior the further along it will progress.

What I find amusing (if there's anything amusing in this) is that the reaction of the fundamenalists is rooted in fear, not conviction as they like to believe.

Julie

[TheBaldyMan]

81. I'm not a fundamentalist but

imo your neighbors were not acting like christians. Freaking out and accusing you of 'witchcraft' because you use biological controls in your organic garden suggests they are just plain dumb. This is probably why they think that their actions were compatable with their mistaken interpretation of their faith (or a twisted version of it).
btw I did read the links but it just confirms that they are not religious they are bigots, as are people that act like that. I am not excusing their actions I am advising a conciliatory approach. The world does have stupid people in it, thankfully there are different degrees of stupidity and hopefully Crowdance's neighbors are at the high functioning end of the spectrum.
The troglodyes that gave you such a hard time will be surprised come Judgement Day and find out that dragging a gay guy to his death behind their pick-up has gets you a hot seat in hell.

[kalibex]

87. Still not getting it.

"it just confirms that they are not religious"

Still not getting it. They are 'religious'. Or, in another way of putting it, this is a current expression of 'religiousness', their type. It certainly isn't the 'Do unto others' sort of expression that the average, mentally balanced person lives by...but it is their religious expression. Hate & Fear, lashing out against others, writ large.

Cynical politicos will use this (already are using this) to their advantage. Give the proles something to be agitated over, to distract them, and they'll not be standing in the way of corporatist excesses.


-B

[TheBaldyMan]

89. Please forgive me for asking but ...

are you seriously suggesting that Pat Robertson (for instance) could be described as a religious man?
I could not, by any stretch of imagination, describe him as such. Impious, hate-filled bigot and hypocrite - yes; religious - definitely not.
This would apply, in my book, to suicide bombers, paedophile priests and a long list of people who use religion as a justification for their aberrant behavior. None of these people are religious.

(edited for spelling)

[kalibex]

93. Nothing to forgive.

BaldyMan, if there's one thing you can be assured of, it's of humans' infinite capacity for self-delusion and rationalization.

What we've got here, though, is just a semantics issue. As I see it, 'religion'/'religious' refers merely to the cultural expression of organized, social, directed, spiritual expression. As such, it does not necessarily mesh with any 'real' Moral Truths that may be ascertained by us. Thus, the use of religious rhetoric to 'evil' ends is very commonsensically explained (to my satisfaction). For me 'religious' as an adjective does not = good.


-B

[LostinVA]

97. Of course he is a religious man

Many people also think he's a good Christian, although I doubt Jesus would.

All of those people mentioned are/were religious.

[Ladyhawk]

85. True, but I'd take the high road first.

Having actually BEEN a fundamentalist, I can tell you that some are more understanding than others. This particular fundy doesn't sound like one of those, unfortunately. Still, it won't hurt to take the high road, first.

[LostinVA]

61. You are right, unfortunately

Most don't give a damn, and actually enjoy harassing (fill in the blank with gays, women, blacks, etc.).

[Cleita]

47. Blessings of the solstice to you.

I commemorated the death of my husband a year ago tonight by lighting candles to his memory.

I am so sorry you can't even do your own rituals because of this prejudice being promulgated by these horrid people.

[ClayZ]

54. Winter Solstice Greetings!

Sorry you have mean neighbors!

[Behind the Aegis]

55. It was a sign!

I hate that you and your loved ones couldn't celebrate without distraction. But, it may be a sign of things to come for you. You will have minor annoyances (neighbor) and major distractions (fire department), but you will be able to handle them with grace and aplomb. You will also (re)discover an inner fire(, long since dormant). You will be be distracted by the false attacks of others, that is your challenge...to see the false ones and leave them be, but attack the real challenges head-on! You will lead others on the path to discovery (not the same as yours, but one of peace and love...and justice).

She, who is nameless, has big plans for you these coming months! He, who is strength, is at your side.

But, this is just my opinion. :)

May the returning sun bring light to your life and may the Earth sprout where your feet step!

[Hekate]

58. Incredible insight, Aegis

Very impressive reading of the events

Hekate

[Crowdance]

73. BtA, thank you for being the messenger!

My journey last night told me this event was non-ordinary, and that I would understand today. This is a time of tremendous upheaval for me (leaving my job, beginning to leave my profession, starting the mission for which I came to this life). This upheaval lent much significant to this Solstice, and I should have know Spirit was showing me the way. Thank you for filling the breach with your lovely message!

[PeacePal]

94. It is a time of upheaval for many, Crowdance.

What we do with this upheaval of stirring energy will determine the shape takes. Thanks for posting to DU, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

I arrived too late to the Solstice ritual I planned to attend last night and the group had gone upstairs, so couldn't hear my knock on the door. As all things are, this was meant to be, because the hostess was a women I've been wanting to get to know better, and she responded to my note of apology with a phone call several hours later. We had a long, delightful conversation that did more to cement a growing friendship than my attendance at the ritual probably would have.

"Behind the Aegis"'s post resonated strongly with me. This WILL be a sign of things to come, I'm sure. We are everywhere, and non-pagans don't understand. Yet these times are, to me, reminiscent of the 1960's, when the newly-exiled Dalai Lama taught Americans about peaceful protest. In doing so, he created an enduring perception in this country that Buddhism is essentially a religion of peace. So while the most virulent of so-called christian fundies will continue to harass Buddhists, most Americans see Buddhism as a valid religion, well-protected under law. The practice of Buddhism is now growing rapidly in the US. Even staunch conservatives tend to grant it more legitimacy than they do many non-Christian religions.

I think it's now OUR time to follow the Dalai Lama's example. Unfortunately, the word 'pagan' is so charged with negative connotations. Though I'm embarrassed to admit it, the very word was a deterrent to my own inquiry into and subsequent adoption of - or return to (smile) - my pagan path. Reared a Catholic, I learned the Eightfold Path before I learned the Rede. And I consider myself open to be open minded, tolerant, and liberal!

So I agree with btA's wise assessment of your Solstice lesson. We must choose our battles carefully. We can be quick to defend our rights and the rights of the less outspoken while still acting with restraint and grace.

Education is an invaluable tool. My suggestion, although you haven't asked for it, would be this:

Take the cookies to the local fire department, along with a carefully written note that educates as well as expresses gratitude. You might mention the origin of the word 'pagan', along with a brief explanation of what earth-based religions ARE and - just as important - are NOT. Dispel the urban myths that hate-based Satanic worship and evil spellcasting are endemic to all pagan practice.

I would do the same with the note that I sent, along with a carefully chosen (read:non-alcoholic, non-threatening, nonedible, nondescript gift, maybe a Glade holiday or white candle) to your neighbors. But on theirs, I would include a sentence or two that says that you are certain that, had they REALLY understood how benign your celebration was, how the inclusion of fire was akin to the burning of Christmas candles in most Christian churches, then they CERTAINLY wouldn't have violated your religious freedoms. Especially knowing as they do that a violation of religious freedoms was illegal.

Let them know that you took this opportunity to educate them so you might live peacefully next door to each other. Finally, I'd say that I'd taken a day or two to mull the situation over before writing the note because I wanted to to give myself a chance to cool down. I'd let them know I was glad I'd taken that time, instead of taking legal action immediately. In the holiday spirit, I'd decided not to file harassment charges or a civil suit. Yet. Instead I wanted to make sure they understood the significance of my ritual...because (of course!) once they understood, they wouldn't make such a mistake again. "I know that people have heard silly things about paganism" .... blah, blah, blah. You get the general idea. I'd keep copies of both notes, and hand-deliver the gift with a "Happy Holidays!" and a smile. You'll be able to testify, if you ever need to to, that they were in receipt of your missive. I'd light some candles, too (smile). Who knows? Maybe there's at least one sane person in their household who'll help the others see the light. Maybe there's even a young person or neighbor to whom they'll show the note ...and you'll have passed along life-changing information.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth. I'd like us to be known as the tolerant, peace-loving people we are. Thanks so much for sharing your this thought-provoking experience with us.

And remember, the light will now begin to increase. Methinks you've been given an excellent opportunity to enlighten! Have a blessed Solstice.

[NMMNG]

56. I'm sorry you had to go through that

But those poor Christians are so persecuted, aren't they? :sarcasm:

And yes, the "war on Christmas" is making people emboldened, but it's more than that. This entire Bush Administration/Reich-wing that has taken over America is the problem. The Religious-Wrong has been steadily turning this nation into one big Christian powerhouse where you are either Christian (and you darn well better be "the right kind") or you are going to pay for it! They play the pity-me persecution card very well, but they are the most powerful group in the nation right now. Any time they make a demand of a corporation, a town, a city or even a state they are very likely to get it, or at the very least get a lot of publicity over it.

I hope you file formal complaints, as well as fire off some LTTEs. Definitely don't take it sitting down.

[Hekate]

57. May your days be happy and your nights filled with starlight

What an amazing thread you started, Crowdance. Such an upsetting experience for you and Mrs. Crow -- and others here who have literally been hounded and persecuted. :hug:

For what it's worth, I agree with the person who suggested taking cookies to the fire department to show that you are the "sane neighbors." Fire fighters always appreciate being remembered by the community they serve. I would find that easier to do than going across the fence with a peace offering to your unpleasant neighbors, but if you can manage that, more power to you because it really is a blessed act. In my mind it's always best to start with peace before progressing to legal battles -- if possible.

However, just about simultaneously with those actions I would file a complaint with the DA or whoever about the false fire alarm made by the neighbors. Best to get that on the record. If "live and let live" becomes the rule of the 'hood, all well and good; but if further troubles ensue and you have to escalate your response, at least your version of events will be on record.

Happiness from Solstice to Solstice, all you Earth-centered DUers! I'll be with my friends tomorrow evening, feasting the return of the Sun and the New Year. :grouphug:

Hekate

[LostinVA]

60. I would have called the police -- you have a LEGAL right

To do what you did. Seriously -- i would file a complaint, and have the cops visit your neighbor and tell them to knock it off. If you want to press it, then sue them. You'll win.

on edit: I would also talk to someone high up in the Fire Department about how your civil liberties were trod upon by their personnel, and how they need to educate their department.

[stop the bleeding]

65. I would "series"ly talk to a professional about this, like a lawyer from

the ACLU or something that ranks right up there. No doubt that your freedom was infringed upon. I remember reading an article just recently where a prisoner was granted his Wiccan "tools" for worship in his cell, he was able to site all kinds of parallels between his religion and "regular religion" and that is how he won. I would take some more time to look into this.

BTW - Happy Solstice and happy celebrating over the next few days.

[CornField]

66. I'm so very sorry.

I also agree with the notion of killing them with kindness... no need wasting anymore of your energy being upset.

I bet your Solstice was lovely despite the creeps. Merry Yule.

[Solomon]

67. I still say that giving a gift is the best way to respond, and...

be sure to wish them a "Merry Christmas" when you give it to them. And not in a sarcastic manner.

One thing my father taught me that has served me well all through my life. "Always show that you're a better gentleman than the other guy".

The gift will either piss them off or shame them. Either way you win and keep good karma.

[Occulus]

76. With respect, your father was from a time when that worked

It doesn't anymore.

I have some similar experience with solutions from other times; my parents were both into their 30s by the time they adopted me and my sister. I grew up with the advice that I should just "ignore the bullies and they'll eventually get bored and go away" or to "just be nice to them and they'll look like a fool to everyone else."

Nonw of that is true anymore, and in fact wasn't true twenty five years ago. The older generation grew up in a society where parents tended to teach their kids about respect for others; a broad education of such across society was key in those solutions to bullying and harassment being viable solutions. Without mutual respect in society, however, those "solutions" only make one even more vulnerable than before.

Today, silence in the face of harassment or bullying is seen as vulnerability and weakness; kindness in the face of bullying is seen (even, or perhaps especially, by authorities) as a sign of foolishness.

It goes way beyond being simply "not cool". For example, when I was very young, I remember being teased by one person on the school bus. I ignored it. It got worse, so I ignored it some more. Then others started joining in. Five minutes later, the whole back of the bus was singing a song about me, at me, and it was way past too late to do anything about it.

And that just made it easier the next time, and the next time, and the next time. Telling my parents didn't help at all, because they were of the "ignore it and it'll go away" mindset and thus had no other solution.

Silence or kindness in the face of such things as child or adult bullying and harassment is only, today, a license to do more of the same. People today don't get bored with it, and they aren't "killed by kindness"; the former attracts them and the latter gets soaked up like a sponge.

In other words, the next time they try something, it'll probably be done while enjoying the wine you gave them.

Confrontation and complete 'destruction' and humiliation, with possible legal repercussions, is the only workable response today. If it was my kid getting teased on a bus, I'd tell him to next time just haul off and sock the people teasing; with this solstice celebration harassment, I say go for the throat.

[atommom]

68. I'm so sorry to hear about that. The atmosphere in the country

is frightening these days. I haven't experienced anything like what happened to you, but I feel more and more bad vibes coming from the religious conservatives I know. I'm sure it's much worse for people who are practicing Pagans. Having read about Dominionism, this gives me the creeps.

We live a fairly quiet leftist agnostic life ;) , but I'm beginning to sense tension from some of my relatives (all of whom are quite religious). No outright showdowns, since they all hate confrontation ... just a chilling disapproval. We have Repubs on either side of our house, an older couple with an angry wife who watches us constantly, and a family with children on the other side. (One of their children tries to bully ours; the other tries to proselytise to them. Neither one is having much success.) Fortunately we have friends with similar belief systems ... but we still feel more and more alienated from the culture at large.

[Cults4Bush]

69. Crowdance! You are blessed with power over those neighbors!

They fear you, they fear our nature loving ways. They fear the unkown, the different, the magick that is our inherent right within and without ritual.

Have empathy with them like you would for a dog that has been beaten by its human. Have mercy upon their souls for they are ill with malice and hate.

You however have the upper hand with these types, always. Next time they do something like this or even look at you funny just laugh. The more humorous you look upon their actions the more of a chance they might not be so foolish and angry... and if they be serious hardcore fundie fried wackos, your laughter is more than justified.

After a while of this if they seem to be increasing their malice, then a combination of magick and legal oversight should be sought (i.e. ritual and police). Essentially if they get worse start going to the cops. Do short but intense rituals before and after all dealings with law enforcement.

I have been dealing with people like this since the late 80's (that was a fun time for pagans thanks to Geraldo! jerk), and I have always had to seperate out what kind of ignorance I was dealing with. Sometimes they are just programmed with the hate, sometimes it is learned (wilingly), sometimes people are having a little fun at your expense and will back off as soon as confronted. Laughter always seemed the best and most innocous way to seperate the types. Anything else can lead to "witch wars" and left hand path stuff which is a huge waste of energy. Laughter is never wasted...

Just some thoughts and Happy Solstice, the coming of the light is applicable to the political situation of our country today. The light is coming and will shine into the dark dark corners of this administrations evil doings.

Blessing and peace.

[lojasmo]

70. happy belated solstice

sorry you had to put up with that ignorant claptrap from your neighbors.

I woke my honey with a kiss at 06:53 yesterday. ;)

[Walt Starr]

71. Just a note about fire ordinances in many municipalities

Most muinicipalities these days require a permit and inspection for firepits. My recommendation to anybody is, before installing a firepit or purchasing a home with a firepit, insure the proper permits are in place. It will alleviate issues like this when the time comes.

Having been a practicing Pagan for more than two decades I can assure you, the time will come.

[bloom]

74. "Solstice Harassment"

Solstice Harassment is right - or even worse - the idea so many would like to promote (like O'Reilly) that there are no other religions besides Christianity - or that people should not mention or recognize them if they do exist.

I liked hearing about your celebration - even if it was disrupted by the nincompoops.

:bounce:

[Pacifist Patriot]

77. What a shame. I think your analogy is entirely appropriate.

I see it the same way you do.

I hope you had a blessed Solstice despite ignorance jerks. I too love the idea of a gift. I'd probably lean towards a plant instead of a consumable or a trinket.

[newswolf56]

80. A plant is a living being. I cannot think of worse karma than to knowingly

place a living being in a fundamentalist household.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

78. I'm a Christian, but it is uncalled for to harass anyone else for their

chosen spiritual path.

If you get more harassment about your corn shocks being Satanic or anything like that, just look them in the eye, burst out laughing, and say, "You're kidding right? Because I know you're too intelligent to believe everything you hear on the radio."

[Solly Mack]

79. You're absolutely correct

the "war on Christmas" bullshit is to embolden haters, and legitimize discrimination against other religions by using the very false premise that Christians, and aspects of Christianity, are discriminated against.

they will use discrimination against others while claiming they are only exerting their right to practice their religion...

It's the exact same argument racists use...they aren't hating - just exerting their rights...it's not hate speech - it's free speech

[greiner3]

82. Sorry;

In my experience, christians don't act like themselves. It's all a big farce, or they use hatred to try to get a singular point across. I say ban all organized religion!

[LittleClarkie]

84. I just wished my nephew a happy solstice

and felt like a dork doing it.

I know he's wiccan, so when I started to say "Merry Christmas" I corrected myself and switched it to "Happy Solstice, or whatever you do" He said that yeah, he doesn't really do Christmas, but it was nice to get stuff anyway.

In fact, he used the twenty I sent him for Christmas/Solstice to go out last night to the corner bar, where he happily reported that he found both gay and straight folks. Being bi and from California, I don't imagine he was expecting that in Dayton.

I still felt like a dweeb. My only defense was that I hadn't had my coffee yet.

But at least the kid sounds pretty good. I announced in the lounge a while back that he has AIDS. I think he's doing pretty well physically and mentally at the moment. His family wants him to go on disability, but he wants to work and earn his keep.

Eh, I still need coffee.... blah....

[misanthrope]

86. Give them the gift FIRST...

...then assess what effect it has on them.

Should it not change them, THEN get ready to nail their "chestnuts" to the wall.

Give them a chance to be more civil, but don't mess around when playtime is done.

The only effective course of action with any bully is to stand up to them and let them have it full board.

[philly_bob]

88. Outrage against tolerance, neighborliness, diversity, harmony

I thought my outrage reserves were all used up. But they weren't. Your story really made me mad.

It's an offense against neighborliness. An offense against the great American Situation Comedy consciousness, where you have a bunch of quirky people who together are pretty special. And how did the fire department act??

[LiberalEsto]

90. Declare your home a place of worship

and get the Universal Life Church to certify you as a minister.

[northofdenali]

91. I'm sorry you were subjected to this idiocy, Crowdance.

Solstice should be a time of joy.

Remember, even in the cold, harsh northlands, the light NEVER goes completely away. I've added a "Crowdance candle" to my own humble offering.


Fairbanks Winter Solstice.........even our sun rises.

:hug:

[Crowdance]

92. I am crying a tear of humble gratitude

to be remembered on your altar. Thank you most deeply. I will hold the vision of this candle in my soul when darkness threatens and know there is light for me. (And the image is breathtaking! I will see your Fairbanks with my own eyes one day.)

[Blue_Tires]

95. ttt one more time

[Ioo]

98. File a Suit...

File one for harrasment on your neighbor.

If he gives you issues, explain to him that this is America, and that his faith is nothing but a stolen faith from yours and move on.

We live in the middle of nowhere, so we burn what we want!!