Leahy/Sununu agreement: 6 month extention of Patriot Act!

[ticapnews]

C-SPAN 2 now

Kennedy will now speak for 15 minutes.

It looks like there will be 30 minutes of debate, followed by three votes which will apparently be done BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT. No ROLL CALL VOTE.

[jefferson_dem]

1. That's a victory for our side! Chimpy's in a box now.

...now that he's 'bout to be backhanded in full view.

[951-Riverside]

3. ...What?

If I read correctly our democratic reps agreed to have it extended... how is this a victory?

[jefferson_dem]

7. Our side wanted a 3 mos. extension in order to "work out the problems"

while chimpy wanted no such temporary extension, and actually threatened (or intimated at least) a veto. The pukes tp of "the dems killed the patriot act" will be MOOT.

This may not be our perfect end-game but it is a political victory nonetheless.

[AntiCoup2K4]

6. How is extending this fascist piece of shit a "victory"?

It expired on the 31st, and they should have let exactly that happen.

[sandnsea]

26. Have you seen the House version???

That was the alternative today. The House version, which is horrific, or extension of the Patriot Act. Now there is a chance to pass the alternative Senate bills that have ACLU support and even the support of Feingold. This was a HUGE win today.

[951-Riverside]

2. *sigh*

We've been shafted yet again by our own reps but I'm quite sure someone here will try to convince me that this is all for the best.

[ticapnews]

5. I would prefer that it expire and they then pass the positive aspects

of the PA in January. The problem with leaving these laws on the books is that it holds out the chance that the entire PA will be made permanent.

[onenote]

29. because it is

Even Feingold supported extension of some provisions of the Patriot Act. This is and will clearly be seen as a defeat for Chimpy.

onenote

[Tom Joad]

4. Leahy has said "no one wants this Act to expire" . Speak for yourself

clown. Overall, this law is bad for America. If there are any good parts to it, they should be brought up separately.

[liberalnurse]

9. We have to look at the "Big Picture" wherein

most Americans don't follow politics like we do......They just know the Patriot Act protects Americans from Terror......If we let it expire...the rhetoric would be 24/7 how Democrats were against protecting our borders, if we get attacked, it's the Democrats fault...la la..la....you know the tune.

[Tom Joad]

16. ummm, right. It would have been like saying it was wrong to invade

Iraq in 2003... gotta pay attention to the polls.

The fact remains with Leahay's help, the Patriot Act, with its attack on civil liberties, lives on.

[951-Riverside]

17. Yup

[onenote]

30. stop. learn. listen

There was no chance. Repeat. No. Chance. That the Patriot Act in its entirety was going to expire. Exactly zero members of Congress -- Democrat or repub -- supported such an outcome.

onenote

[sandnsea]

25. They have been

In a bill called the SAFE Act and a bill already passed by the Senate. That's why fighting the House vesion has been so important, and we won, it didn't pass. So they're extending the Patriot Act and forcing the House to come back and pass these other bills that are support by most of the Senate, including Feingold, and the ACLU too.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Gosh, another "victory" like we got with 3 judges and Roberts.

Kinda like the firing squad shooting you with only 4 bullet rather than the traditional 6.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. This is in fact a victory

The purists on this thread are useful for yelling and screaming and taking the hard-line: the hard-line is necessary on the Patriot Act, but it is distinctly impractical at this time. The mere six-month extension takes away a major Administration talking point while reinforcing that the Act is fundamentally flawed and cannot stand as permanent or even long-term law. That's a victory. There are now six months to hash out what works about the act and what it fundamentally undemocratic. During this time, we will have to step up the rhetorical war against it, and that's a good thing.

Now, will Bush veto a six-month extension? The ball is in his court. I suspect that he'll end up thanking the Congress and pretend that it was his urging that got this compromise worked out, though that would be a half-truth at best. The truth is that some of the provisions of the Patriot Act are useful (the money laundering provisions, primarily), and so we should take a measured stance on it. But it is by and large terrible legislation and should be stricken. The compromise holds both these possibilities open, while stripping Bush of a campaign point. This is good.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. It's kind of like the ruse LBJ used in Vietnam.

"News reports have said that I've authorized 100,000 for Vietnam. That's silly. I'm only gonna send 50,000." And,the apologists called it a "victory" for the peace movement.

Subjecting the citizenry to 6 more months of draconian laws and then being hoodwinked into an open-ended "Patriot" act as a "compromise" isn't a "victory" for anyone but the politicians, the military, and the "intelligence" agencies that spy on us.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Oh stop it

A six-month extension is probably the best we could hope for politically. It forces Bush to put up or shut up on his pledge to veto any temporary extension, and thoroughly corners him on the "even one minute" rhetoric. It's a good gambit.

[Selatius]

20. This might be why so many people don't vote

I'm not worried about the people who don't vote because they don't care about politics. I worry about people who would vote but don't because of these situations. They may find both the Democrats and Republicans adopting positions that disagree with their own personal positions, so they are left with no other choice in a system that allows only two political parties.

[gulliver]

12. Cool. If this means we will be checking Bush's assertions on ...

... the Patriot Act for six months, that is definitely a victory. His bluff would be called. I like it.

[jefferson_dem]

13. Right! Well said.

It may not be what we all want but it's a huge political win...especially considering we are a minority party in both chambers.

Chimpy has said he will veto a temporary extension. Now, let's see if he's a man of his word and a president who really KILLS the patriot act or is he a flip-flop waffling emperor who has no clothes at all. His choice.

[951-Riverside]

15. ...so what happens AFTER 6 months?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. We get back to square one

buit we do that, while we get spygate, treason gate and other gates yet to emerge... the environment will be even less charming for the boy who wanted to be king

[Rainscents]

21. I think this might be good move... lets see, in 6 months, full blown

election mode... people will pay attention is to what is going on and this will be all over the TV ari wave! By the time 6 months rolls around, there will be lot of people hating Bush and it would be prefect time for this to come to full blown on people's TV screen! Perfect!

[sandnsea]

27. SAFE Act, Senate Bill

We go to work educating the public on the Senate versions that will protect our rights.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1709:

[oasis]

19. It's on the back burner for now. A victory. Now back to "Spygate".

:bounce::popcorn::bounce:

[madeline_con]

24. Sponsored by Halliburton and Exxon Mobil.....

:popcorn: :tv:

[dflprincess]

22. Is anyone else worried that if Bush doesn't get his renewal

of the stupid Patriot Act, he will blow something else up so he can say "I told you so?". And God only knows how fast the Congress and public would cave if that happened.

[Tom Joad]

23. So you are saying we should support the unPatriot Act so Bush doesn't

bomb something? (of course, he bombs every day, just not in the US... but i digress).

This is not an arguement for extending the Act, is it?

[thebigidea]

28. reminds me of the argument concerning Iraq some babbled here

"oh, we shouldn't oppose Bush on Iraq because he's going to find the WMD right before the elections and we'll look like big idiots!"

[dflprincess]

32. Oh God no!

There's no way I support an extension of the "Patriot" Act. I'm speculating on what Bush is capbable of and how Congress would react - everyone but Feingold fell for it the first time. I don't have a lot of faith that they'd ask any questions if there was a second attack. Which scares me more than the thought of Bush blowing something else up.

[helderheid]

31. Here's ANOTHER reason why this is a victory for us. Pause as I don my

:tinfoilhat:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5658377&mesg_id=5658377