Is Spygate a Battle, the War, or something else?

[Protagoras]

This one (Spygate) seems to me to be different from...all the previous fight/freakout/opportunities whatever that we've energetically discussed be it Gannon, WMD, Iraq, Payola to reporters, terrible economy, Tax giveaways to the rich, the abandonment of NO, torture, WP, suspension of Habeus Corpus, etc....amazing list really. But still...after all these...more crimes and corruption that I think we may have EVER seen in our country's history...Spygate seems to have a different sense about it. The Opportunity seems more REAL.

So I'm wondering how we see it. IS IT THE THING. Of course if we WIN then Bush is rightly Impeached for crimes against the constitution and the American Public.

But assume we lose. Assume the media and the democrats, despite OUR best efforts, roll over yet again. How do we view this result?

[Canuckistanian]

1. Drip, drip, drip, BOOOM!

This is just another drip, IMHO. Probably the 3rd one, to be exact.

[Raydawg1234]

2. Bush Has crossed the Rubicon, He is clearly breaking the law.

If we do not respond with impeachment, we are SETTING PRECEDENT. If we do not act the power of the executive will be expanded permanently. Thus, if Congress does not act, they are marginalizing themselves. Giving up their power. Which I have a hard time believing, because I thought some of these congressmen liked power. I guess that DeLay just proved that the only thing they care about is golf trips and vacations.

[Protagoras]

3. What I fear the most is that this IS our best opportunity BUT

it's fragile beyond belief because the national mindset has become so pacified and cowardly that all it would take is a new LIHOP/MIHOP event to send 90% of those speaking up now running back for cover. The effect being that Bush will be granted exactly the dictitorial powers in the eternal war on Terror that he's absurdly claiming to have now. This one needs a different Type/level of effort than any before. We may need to literally start chaining ourselves to congress people to get their attention.

There is a reason why people in other places end up burning themselves alive, or letting tanks roll over them, or taking to the streets with pitchforks and torches...all the other options have failed.

[regnaD kciN]

4. I'm not sure how to answer...

...especially since you started off with the premise that we lose (which I assume means Bush doesn't get impeached and convicted over this, which is probably not a bad bet, considering the GOP majority in both houses of congress). In that case, I'm sure we would keep on fighting.

But...I think, in another sense, this isn't just another battle. This really gets down to the heart of the Bush Gang's attitude toward, and sins against, America. In other words, this is where Bush and his henchmen drop the mask and make it clear that they think they hold absolute power, much like a monarch in the days of "divine right"...and the law be damned.

Which is why I don't think we can underplay this. This is Bush's most blatant challenge to democracy, the Consititution...every concept on which America was founded.

What I'm worried about is not that we "lose" in the sense that the Republican congressional majority blocks impeachment. What worries me is the possibility that, due to silence or timidity, we let this issue die away, that the average American comes to shrug this off, that the general consensus will emerge that this is "no big deal." For, if Americans accept Bush's notion that the President can overrule any law he or she chooses, it's all over. We'll find ourselves living, not as citizens of a republic, but as subjects of an Imperial Presidency for the rest of our -- or America's -- time on this planet.

That's why, even though this may not be the final battle, it is possibly the most important. We must take a stand and, win or lose, never let America forget that Bush and his minions tried to do this, nor that millions of us stood up against him and his un-American ambitions.

Fight now, or don't hope to win later.

:bounce:

[Protagoras]

5. I suppose the word I am looking for is "Endgame"

I see something about this issue that makes me think it might very well fit that bill. A win here certainly wins big for us...that's not in question. But on the flip side, I'm wondering how we are approaching this intellectually, politically, and emotionally. Are we going to blow our whole wad on this because we do see it as the Endgame? Or do we apportion out a measure of effort while continuing to reserve more for the next battle.

Perhaps I should have used a boxing metaphor (except I'm not very knowledgable about boxing) but I suppose knowing how we are viewing this situation could help us prepare for whatever happens next. Are we on the ropes? Is he on the ropes? Is someone down and being counted out? Is it the 1st or the 10th round? Do we think that we are behind or ahead on the judges score cards?...bah...no matter how I formulate it I can't get passed one basic conviction and I absolutely agree with you:

"Fight now, or don't hope to win later".

Well said.

[rucky]

6. Other. It's what "We The People" make it.

Democrats as a party will win NO partisan wars until we regain power in some branch of gov't. The people have to wake up & get really really angry over this for it to amount to anything. I honestly don't know what it'll take for that, but I fear that it'll have to come to the incarceration of people's families before anything happens.

[xchrom]

7. it has to be treated with care, but a firm approach.

it's not really more important than say the election theft of 00 -- and i guess if i were in charge of theis -- i would want to be able to launch more than one front on bushco.

you can do a lot of damage without having control of either house -- and i think it's best to look at the campaign from that p.o.v. -- then if you win control of the house and senate -- you can take the roof off the motherfucker.

[Protagoras]

8. But this seems to have more...OOMPH

and resonance with the public than the Election did because Bush has admitted to something. Then again I haven't seen our media do a poll yet asking people if they think that Bush's power grab is worth their civil liberties yet...

[goodhue]

9. Spygate is a crime

[Lilith Velkor]

10. Please, I beg of you

Stop it with the "-gate" suffix. Nixon was a SAINT compared to Bush.