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On Nightline NOW -- Bush's Spy Tactics Investigated...

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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:38 PM
Original message
On Nightline NOW -- Bush's Spy Tactics Investigated...
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Back on ... n/t
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Turley 'clearly a crime'
bush's crime
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bush committed a federal crime and an impeachable offense,.
Eat that, blivet.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. sweet to the ears
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. When Turley comes out so squarely against the Bushoilinis ...
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 11:58 PM by TahitiNut
... it's bad news for the regime. This guy was ready to hand up the nails during Clinton's crucifixion. He's a traditional conservative, imho, even though the fascists call him 'liberal.'
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I haven't been paying attention long enough, TN, but
I bow to your knowledge, in the best way!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. There's no question in my mind that Turley KNOWS the ...
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 12:06 AM by TahitiNut
... Constitutional ramifications and the FISA law intimately. He's regarded as one of the Top 100 legal authorities on such matters. During the Clinton years, however, I was frequently appalled at the times he rationalized the witch hunt.

For the cherry on top: Turley once worked for the NSA (National Security Agency) as an attorney!!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. So he sounds like a politician. Damn! I could
insert dripping sarcasm, but I prefer to think Turley woke up.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jonathan Turley says it's a federal crime.
"Serious felony." "Violation of US constitution." "Impeachable offense."

Now if only they'd say it in primetime.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Jonathan Turley just said violating FISA is an impeachable offense
and a serious felony.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. what is the legal avenue?
Can a president be criminally prosecuted? Or is impeachment the only recourse?
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I think you have to impeach and convict first, prosecute afterwards.
And wouldn't that be sweet?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Impeach. Remove. Indict. Prosecute. Convict. Imprison.
Unless at least 20 people are serving life sentences, justice isn't close to being complete.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. oh shti - we can't indict him until after he's impeached?
drag
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. A president is subject to the rule of law.
Period.

Since when is a president not subject to the rule of law?

There is no fucking immunity for criminality or tyranny!!! NONE!!!.

The fucking CONSTITUTION demands loyalty to its precepts.

Where do people get off on protecting an American dictator?

I just do NOT GET that.

Are we, is this country,...that lost and dysfunctional?

DAMN!!!!
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow! Turley is saying there's no getting around the fact
that what Bush has ordered is a criminal act, and that the White House's explanations are laughable legally.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks, Peter, for the alert. I saw Turley yesterday, and he
is outraged.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Wow! Turley said all of that about Bush?
Bush is fucked!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Cat_girl,25,
yeah, he's in a world of shit! So are you really a stalker? I joke, but Fitz is the
man! Wow, when will this break?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Darn! I missed it, didn't I? : (
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 11:57 PM by in_cog_ni_to
This is why the OLD NIGHTLINE was better. They spent the entire time on ONE subject.
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Turley article - 'Ashcroft Unplugged:' Coming soon
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 12:14 AM by chat_noir
U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft will ultimately learn that marketing the USA Patriot Act across America cannot overcome the defects in the product

It is the record industry's answer for any aging rock band or artist with slipping sales: Go on tour. The White House appears to be following that advice in trying to bolster the slipping support for both Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft and the USA Patriot Act. The tour promises to be "Ashcroft Unplugged," a city-by-city performance explaining why citizens should embrace the Patriot Act and its rollback on civil liberties. Of course, this will be a hard sell in the more than 150 cities and three states that have passed resolutions opposing the Patriot Act and fighting its use in their communities. It is one thing to get people to shell out a few bucks for a final KISS tour. It is a bit more difficult to get a free people to surrender their freedoms. The Justice Department announced the national tour to correct "misinformation" about the Patriot Act and to share its many virtues--and, by extension, those of the attorney general himself, who remains the least popular member of the Bush administration. Since I have been cited by the Justice Department as one of the critics who have misinformed the public, I would like to offer my own suggestions for "Ashcroft Unplugged."

In many ways, this tour is a variation of Stanley Kubrick's 1964 classic "Dr. Strangelove, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb." If citizens are going to come to love the Patriot Act and the rollback of their civil liberties, Ashcroft needs to emphasize the other less-known positive features of the law. For example, the new authority to conduct secret physical searches of our homes means greater interaction for home pets. Before Ashcroft, pets were kept in stressful isolation until the return of their working owners. Under the Patriot Act, an insertion team of agents will bring treats for such pets as these agents scrub your computer and insert surveillance devices. Owners will return to find their animals rested and frisky. Likewise, the new government monitoring of our library book withdrawals offers people some benefits to offset the loss of confidentiality that has existed for decades. For example, the FBI will finally be able to produce a conclusive listing of people who actually have read supermodel Emme's new book, "Life's Little Emergencies: Everyday Rescue for Beauty, Fashion, Relationships and Life." Finally, the Patriot Act could be a breakthrough for clinical paranoids who have been struggling with fears of government monitoring for years: Now they'd know they are being monitored. Of course, even with such benefits, Ashcroft is likely to find a fairly hostile audience. Part of the problem is Ashcroft himself. From the beginning, there was a concern not that Ashcroft was using these new powers aggressively but that he was enjoying it too much. Ashcroft has become the James Watt of Justice. Where Watt, who was President Ronald Reagan's interior secretary, sought to clear-cut every forest, Ashcroft appears intent on felling every individual civil liberty that stands in his way. He has, for example, asserted the unilateral right to declare any U.S. citizen an enemy combatant and to strip him of all rights and access to both the courts and counsel. A recent internal report at the Justice Department confirmed individuals were being abused and held without cause--a report that Ashcroft dismissed. Now Ashcroft has announced that he will "disabuse" the public of such concerns. (The very idea of being disabused at the hands of Ashcroft is a bit novel--something like the local dominatrix suddenly promising to nurture her clients). The "Ashcroft Unplugged" tour is a common reaction by the Bush administration to criticism. The administration has long taken the view that criticism of policies simply calls for better marketing rather than changing the product itself. For example, when the administration faced an uproar in the Middle East over its policies and military campaigns, it hired an ad executive, Charlotte Beers, to market its policies to the Arab street. Named the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, Beers had previously marketed such products as Head & Shoulders and Uncle Ben's Rice. The administration apparently believed that a similar campaign could convince 1.3 billion Muslims that America's foreign policy had "fewer flakes" or was "less sticky." It was an utter failure and Beers resigned, citing health reasons. Ashcroft will soon learn that marketing cannot overcome defects in a product. The Patriot Act represents the most significant rollback of civil liberties since the Civil War. Some of the country's most conservative leaders have denounced both the Patriot Act and Ashcroft's record as a threat to liberty. In response, Ashcroft has already indicated that he will strive to keep fear alive--suggesting that restricting his powers could "unleash more death and destruction on our soil." Moreover, he has previously declared that critics of his policies should be viewed as aiding and abetting terrorists. Ultimately, the public will have to decide whether to buy what Ashcroft is selling. However, an ancient rule applies when an attorney general comes knocking with a pitch that less freedom means more freedom: caveat emptor, or buyer beware.

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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Report: FISA judge resigns over Bush plan...
The show mentioned that FISA judge Robertson resigned in protest -- Here's the UPI article... http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051220-112851-4428r

madfloridian picked this up & posted in LBN... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1999426&mesg_id=1999426
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Wow! Seems he is steamed about the flaunting of power. Yeah! nt
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. A sitting judge doesn't resign over small matters...
The FISA court is extremely loose in its interpretation of Our Constitution. As mentioned on Nightline -- I guess Robertson couldn't stand to see Our Constitution totally eviscerated.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hot damn! It is Katrina Round 2.
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