"Bush didn't lie in the SOTU speech"

[drdigi420]

This is the line of BS that my republican friend has been sold. This is the spin they are putting on it. "Where, in those 16 words, did he lie?" he asked, smugly. Well, when you knowingly promote a falsehood, it is a lie, even when you claim the falsehood is from someone else. My friend's position falls apart when you take into account that Bush KNEW the British intelligence was false.

From Ted Rall's article:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=742&e=7&u=%2F030716%2F7%2F4pblk.html

Not only had the CIA had told the White House about the Niger forgery in October 2002, the White House had gotten the message. Nonetheless Bush, after months of excising that argument from his speeches, revived it in January 2003 for use in what is traditionally the most widely watched TV appearance a president makes each year.

Bush knew that he was promoting a falsehood. That is LYING no matter how the 'right' spins it.

[el_gato]

1. so did you reply to your friend?

if so what was the response?

[drdigi420]

2. Yes

we debated in my chat room on www.stonernet.org

he got mad and left

he insists that Bush wasn't lying

[JustJoe]

Unbeleebable lie....

"...Bush KNEW the British intelligence was false."

How could he know the Brit intel was false
if nobody in the US Govt has still to this day
SEEN the Brit Intel? That is the claim of Rice,
Rums & the Govt: that they havent seen it cuz
the Brits cant tell them cuz the Brits got it
from a secret third country & the Brits are playing
by the rules of international intel. And the US isnt
insisting cuz it wouldnt be nice. So the two
lonely allies havent shared this most crucial intel
at the center of the uranium scandal. That to me is one
of the most unbeleebable & under-analyzed lies
in the current gale of lies.

[JackSwift]

3. Tell your friend that I will hold $10,000 for him

Now I won't say how long I'll hold it, but I will hold it, and then I'll spend it. And I won't be lying, after all, I did hold it. Better yet, tell him I'll pay interest on it of 50 percent per annum. Then I'll hold it for 10 minutes and give him a buck interest. It still won't be lying by his standard, because its all technically true.

[Richardo]

4. Point out that they are reduced to parsing his words for technical truth..

...for which they used to ridicule the Clinton administration.

And the "mushroom cloud" reference reinforced the impression that Smirky wanted: Saddam = nukes.

Then 200+ (and counting) of our fellow Americans started getting klled.

[tableturner]

5. Bush even TECHNICALLY lied in the speech!

It is not true that the president "just stated in the speech that Britain 'SAID' that Saddam had tried to buy the uranium", as his supporters knowingly lie to anybody who will listen. Bush said "The British government has 'LEARNED' that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." He was literally talking about this as if that false assertion had been judged to be true by the British. Using the word learned indicates a correct conclusion, a fait accompli. One cannot learn a falsehood. The president used that word on purpose. It was an integral component of the key goal of the speech, which was to convince the American people that we needed to invade Iraq. And OH how they wish that he had in fact substituted "said" for "learned", but doing that would not have served their purpose, which was to try to get the American people to believe a lie. Britain never learned about the supposed effort to buy the uranum in Niger. Again, one cannot learn a falsehood. If I think that 1+1=3, then I have NOT learned that. When/if I know that 1+1=2, I have then learned it.

[skip fox]

6. New leaks!! Secret testimony from Tenet given to

DU's CAPTIONers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=27585&mesg_id=27585&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=27627&mesg_id=27627&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=27661&mesg_id=27661&page=

[fertilizeonarbusto]

7. "I don't know what he was on

but I want the recipe"
Duke, in "Doonesbury"

[Gman]

8. Yes, the British were saying it at the time but...

that arguement for the 16 words not being a lie is the same stuff of "what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Clinton technically never lied under oath about sex with Monica because the court did not include oral sex in it's definition of sex. This made no difference to the right wing. But, they'll defend an atrocious lie from Bush as being technically true.

[judy]

9. And also, what about the rest of the SOTU, and other speeches ?

What about the Anthrax the Botulism toxin AND the terrifying unmanned drones that could drop bombs that would create mushroom clouds over the United States ?? Where is the evidence for that ? Where did it come from ??

Concentrating on the Niger thing might be just a diversion for the many other disingenuous lies in that speech and others...