Duers. have their head up their but on this impeachment issue.

[Perky]

The american People do not have the appetite to impeach a president in a time of war.


I wIt is a Republican Congress and that lowers the possibilities dramatically.

Most Democrats in the House do n ot want to impeach the President. The only one even talking about is COnyers.

You also seem to conveniently forget who would become president is Bush were successfully impeached. If you some how nail both of them.....Ted Stevens becomes President.

The notion of impeachment is wistful at best....


We should be focusing all our efforts in taking over both house of Congress as a stunning rebuke to the NeoCons. We should be working at identifying who the NEO Con candidate is going to be and work aggressively to destroy him.


The very best way to punish this president is to politically emasculate him... but there is no WAY that he will ever be impeached.

If you think he will be, you are delusional.



I wish it were not so..but that is not remotely possible.

[Poppyseedman]

1. You must have been reading my mind

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2320484#2320527

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Yes he will be impeached. He's a criminal.

The American people are not ALL stupid....just his supporters are.

[stray cat]

51. I doubt the current repub house and senate will do it.

and they are the only ones who can. Lots of powerful criminals walk since when does guilt determine the outcome.

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. When we take back the House in '06, his ass will be IMPEACHED.

How's that?

[insane_cratic_gal]

78. They may be forced to do it

Bush's numbers are down, time and time again this admin has done shady shit, and continues to be exposed.
Bush is the plague, they avoid him on the campaign trail just to distance themselves from him (see Bush's visit to PA and Santorum running away from that PR nightmare).
They know if they want to win, they will have to abandon Bush. But I believe not even jumping ship will save their seats.

[Burning Water]

52. Nope, he will never be impeached

Criminality is not enough. Remember, even OJ got off.

Impeachment is NOT a criminal proceeding, anyway, but a political one. Without the House, there will be no impeachment. The original poster has it right.

[journalist3072]

3. As I said in another post earlier...

The Republican Party didn't care what the American people thought in 1998.

After the mid-term elections, when the Party of the President (Bill Clinton) actually picked up seats in Congress, many people viewed that as the American people saying "Don't impeach Clinton."

The Republicans new the American people did not want Clinton impeached. But they were too far gone; too caught up in it, and went ahead anyway (to save face with their conservative, neo-con base).

So, IMO, this really has nothing to do with us being in a time of war. We are in a time of war b/c of W's lies and insistence on going to war.

[Shalomar]

13. Any pres can be

I believe I have outlined a plan for the impeachment of ANY sitting president till Mental patients in ALL states are granted the same protections under the law as criminal defendants. Does the Constitution differentiate between being deprived of your liberty in a hospital or prison? If a sitting pres is informed; can be proven to know is he not compelled to act if a state is violating the rights of an entire class of people? No new laws; if Criminal defendants were treated like mental patients are in PA the Justice department would move in in a heartbeat. And if the pres won't make sure they do; can't Congress do smething about HIM???

The one thing about impeachment-- Cheney might be next; then the Postmaster General shal lead us.

[Perky]

26. Clinton's impeach was a play for the the GOP base.

Who would the GOP being playing this card for in an alection year?

[journalist3072]

34. Right....but the whole point is that

The Republicans KNEW the majority of Americans were not for impeachment.

Like you said, they did it to appease their base.

So I'm saying that since the Republicans didn't care what the American people thought, we shouldn't either.

Impeaching Bush is the only thing to do; because it's the right thing.

[C_U_L8R]

4. A crook is a crook

War or no war.

Bush broke a law...
and congress is bound to
do SOMETHING !!!??

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. Total bull. Additionally, he's not ANYONE'S legally elected president....

...he's a tinhorn dictator that needs to be removed from power as quickly as possible.

By the way...an illegal and immoral invasion of another sovereign nation is NOT a war. It is a WAR CRIME.

[stillcool]

6. Bull....n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

7. Actually, I don't have any appetite for war

in a time of impeachment. But maybe I'm not "American people."

[EFerrari]

8. I will try not to be a bad guest but respectfully disagree.

The "war" is bogus, a marketing strategy. Yes, our people are getting killed and wounded -- that part is real. But that is a different issue.

The "war on terra" is a Madison Avenue spin of "Why the f didn't you prevent 9/11?"


You think this motherf#cker can't be impeached? Watch. :)

[Beam Me Up]

10. You go girl!

:hi: :thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

14. See you 'round the pool!

:toast:

[Bellamia]

12. I'm watchin'.............

Hope its soon. There's a first time for everything, impeachment in time of war, why not?

[EFerrari]

19. This situation will continue to unravel.

The Thuggery will invoke 9/11 and will sound all the more hollow for doing that.

They will invoke our troops and America will wonder, why the f are our children dying over there?

They will, watch!, invoke Presidential privilege and this country will explode.

That's Miz Cleo's prediction. You were there.

(Sorry if this sounds as if I take any of this lightly, I don't. Sometimes a little humor keeps my head from exploding. :( )

[Beam Me Up]

9. Please do not tell me what I have the stomach for.

Thank you.

[jsamuel]

11. hehe

good point

[rocktivity]

15. Even if you're right, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be called for.

Besides, it was Bush's party that rewrote the rules: if lying about a sexual indiscretion is impeachable, how can lying about a reason for war NOT be? And given the military skills the Commander-in-Chump has exhibited, I don't think that this being a time of war is that big a factor.

:headbang:
rocknation

[LunaC]

16. The approval polls say otherwise

His ratings were in the toilet before this latest domestic spying outrage. With CongressCritters up for reelection in less than a year, they damn well will be listening and catering to their constituents. I used to think we'd have to wait until after the Dems reclaimed Congress in 06, but with this latest turn of events, Impeachment is on the table in a big and dramatic way.

[ochazuke]

17. Most Impeachable President EVER

Step one: Elect Democratic House and Senate

Step two: Impeach

NB: step one comes BEFORE step two

[Silverhair]

80. Still won't happen.

There has NEVER been a successful impeachment of any president. It REQUIRES a 2/3 majority in the senate. Even if we make a clean sweep and win ALL the senate seats up for election (Impossible), we still will not have 67 seats. Bush gets to stay POTUS until 2009.

[ochazuke]

81. We can impeach with a simple majority vote in the House...

From infoplease:

Removing an official from office requires two steps: (1) a formal accusation, or impeachment, by the House of Representatives, and (2) a trial and conviction by the Senate. Impeachment requires a majority vote of the House; conviction is more difficult, requiring a two-thirds vote by the Senate.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/impeach.html

So, at least we might be able to impeach him, and if things get so bad for him that even some Repugs turn against him...

But do we really want to remove him? Then who would we get? Couldn't that person run for pres. in '08?

[CatholicEdHead]

18. Party over Country

Republican means more than American to them.

[EFerrari]

21. But the Cons do not remotely resemble Republicans.

And the cognitive dissonance must be pretty high right now, and it won't be relieved any time soon.

[RagingInMiami]

20. Nixon would have been impeached had he not resigned

And we were in the Vietnam War.

[Perky]

28. He would have been impeached by a Democratic House

And Republicans we abandoining him and telling him he has to resign for the good of the Republic.


I will buy the argument when Aran Specter say He needs to resign. Ain't gonna happen.

[saracat]

22. What war? Are we at war with someone? Who??????????

[FloridaPat]

23. I've had a big appetite for 4 years now. I can take it!

[Raydawg1234]

24. This is not a time of war! When will people get this!

Why do people have this notion that we are allways under attack, what bulshit.

[mwb970]

35. Bush started his Iraq War with lies.

Then he uses the "fact" that we are "at war" to override the Constitution, our laws, and all sense of human decency. His disgusting speech criticizing those who exposed him, admitting he violated the Constitution, and vowing to continue right on doing it was a giant "Screw you" message to America. Message: I don't care.

We've been told that the "war" will never end, therefore I guess he is president for life and the Constitution really has become "just a god-damned piece of paper", as Bush called it recently.

What amazes me is that after 225 years of freedom and democracy, we suffered one attack and our freedoms were whisked away. Was our nation that fragile all along? One attack was all it took. Wow, talk about "retreat and defeat"! Bush is doing the terrorists' work for them, every day.


(edited for typo)

[Raydawg1234]

56. Americans have become very child-like.................

we have become so comfortable with our shopping malls and our fast food, that we have lost the ability of collective reasoning. We expect everything to be provided for us, even what to think, because after all we gain most of our beliefs from our parents, and that's what tv has become. It's as if those who support Bush are somehow yearning to return to the womb, it is comfortable there, it is safe, nobody offends you there. Republican slogan for 2008: Vote Republican, Return to the womb!

[Perky]

25. I think alot of DUes have their heads in the sand or perhaps elsewhere.

I never said that he should not be impeached. I simply said that it is not going to happen.

It is a Republican Congress and that lowers the possibilities dramatically.

Most Democrats in the House do n ot want to impeach the President. The only one even talikg about is COnyers.

You also seem to convenentiently foget who would become president is Bush were sucessfully impeached. If you some how nail both of them.....Ted Stevens becomes President.

The notion of impeachment is wistful at best....


We should be focusing all our efforts in taking over both house of Congress as a stunning rebuke to the NeoCOns. We should be working at identifying who the NEO Con candidate is going to be and work agressively to destroy him.


The very best way to punish this president is to politically emasculate him... but there is no WAY that he will ever be impeached.

If you think he will be, you are delusional.

[havocmom]

38. Actually, Hastert comes before Stevens

Gotta go through a whole lotta neocrap before anything good will happen

Order of Presidential Succession

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html

* The Vice President Richard Cheney
* Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
* President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
* Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
* Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
* Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
* Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
* Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
* Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
* Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez2
* Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao3
* Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
* Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
* Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
* Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
* Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
* Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
* Secretary of Homeland Security4 Michael Chertoff

NOTE: An official cannot succeed to the Presidency unless that person meets the Constitutional requirements.
1. The president pro tempore presides over the Senate when the vice president is absent. By tradition the position is held by the senior member of the majority party.
2. Carlos Gutierrez was born in Cuba and is ineligible.
3. Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan and is ineligible.
4. In late July 2005, the Senate passed a bill moving the Homeland Security secretary to number 8 on the list. The bill is awaiting House approval.

After that list is exhusted, the order falls through the members of Congress, but I am not sure how that would work. Perhaps they mudwrestle.

[Hubert Flottz]

58. I wouldn't vote for a single crony on that list for dog catcher.

I say let Queen Pickles take over and rule the roost, she may be smarter and saner than King Gilligan!

Maybe we need to REALLY elect someone again, like we did years ago? You'll never convince me that over half the people in the country have drain bamage enough to sElect a drunken aWol for pResident. He may be your king, buttttt he will never be my pResident.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Have you had a few?

[Texasgal]

29. *snark*

:)

[linazelle]

31. I'm with you...this post is HUGHly full of errors and typos.

:wtf: I smell a rat.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. kick for "The american Pele".

[peekaloo]

37. Since when do we listen to soccer stars, much less the American Pele?

[Perky]

43. You folks would rather slap some one around for his disability

then deal with the substance of the issue.

[Moochy]

46. Yes, it's beat up on the disabled day on DU

yay!

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

30. He shouldn't be impeached.

He should be arrested and charged as a traitor to our country. He needs to stand in the dock at the Hague for war crimes. He needs to be shoved out the door of the White House in handcuffs.

I don't give a damn WHO comes after. When they see *bush doing the perp walk, they'll think twice before settling in to carry on in his name.

It needs to be done NOW.

[NanceGreggs]

39. Can I get an AMEN to that, brothers and sisters?

IT NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW.

I, along with many (obviously), do not have the temperment for sitting back and saying, "Well, if THIS happens, and then THAT happens, maybe we'll get somewhere."

The time for patience is over. IT NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW!

[WeRQ4U]

32. The failure of a Republican controlled Congress to impeach this man...

Would just be more political fodder for running Democrats. Simply because we know the right wing criminals in charge wouldn't dare impeach their leader doesn't mean the Dems shouldn't try...ON THE CONTRARY.

If the American people want him out, and his cronies in the House and Senate refuse to do it, then it's their ass come election time.

I say go after him.

[cureautismnow]

55. 100% Agreement

The Congress took the same oath as Bush-boy to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. He has attacked the Constitution. It is their duty to impeach and imprison those who defile the Constitution. If they refuse, then they are Traitors and their treasonous acts should be brought to bear in the next election.

[Gregorian]

36. We're not at war.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

49. We were never at war with North Viet Nam, either.

But you can talk to Nixon and Johnson about that. While you're at it, ask the two thousand plus American soldiers who have been killed over the past three years. However, I doubt you'll get much of an answer from them.....

[mandyky]

40. How do you figure Ted Stevens would become prez?

I thought it was house speaker, which would be Hastert. Stevens is in the Senate.

[Perky]

41. I thought it was pres pr tem and then Speaker

Have I got it backwards?

[mandyky]

47. It used to be that way - see link

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html

<snip>
Prior to the ratification of the 25th Amendment in 1967, there was no provision for filling a vacancy in the vice presidency. When a president died in office, the vice president succeeded him, and the vice presidency then remained vacant. The first vice president to take office under the new procedure was Gerald Ford, who was nominated by Nixon on Oct. 12, 1973, and confirmed by Congress the following Dec. 6.

The Vice President Richard Cheney
Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez2
Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao3
Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
Secretary of Homeland Security4 Michael Chertoff
</snip>

[CrazyOrangeCat]

42. Whatever, dude.

As for me and most DU'ers, we're ready to stand out in the cold to MAKE CERTAIN he gets impeached. If it can happen over a hummer in the Oval Office, it'll damned sure happen over lying about illegal surveillance. Not to mention murder.

carry on.

[More Than A Feeling]

44. I'd like to see the Democratic Party attempt to uphold the rule of law

It may not be possible now, but by talking about it, we can change the atmosphere and make it possible. If we don't lay the groundwork now, it won't happen even after we take back congress. I want to see some accountability using the process laid down by the founders. Even if it did result in President Cheney or Hastert, the whole Republican Party would be reeling, we'd have congress, and 2008 would be so much easier.

[Perky]

50. We stand a better chance of taking back congress without impeachment

Because the GOP would rally the base by saying the Dems are unpatriotic in a time of war. 2006 is a referendum on Bush regardless. I would rather see the GOP sit on the sidelines like they did in VA and NJ.

[More Than A Feeling]

54. Impeachment is the logical conclusion

of the "Culture of Corruption" talking point. We could do it the way Kerry did it (by making it "a joke"). Hey, the Republicans say crazy things to get the ideas into the air all the time. We can help by acting as surrogates, and writing letters to the editor and calling shows and things like that.

[yurbud]

45. working for impeachment and take over of Congress DON'T CONFLICT

It would be a powerful selling point to say you were going to end the "Culture of Corruption" by going to the TOP.

The cowardly, mincing approach often used by the DLC is a recipe for voter apathy.

"We can do better" sounds like "we won't get caught" or that the audience is the Chamber of Commerce not the American people.

Frankly, you may be right about it not happening, but it has nothing to do with the wishes of the American people.

Rather it is the elite trying to keep the door on their inner workings from being blown too wide open, and keeping one of the uber-rich from ever being punished for their actions even if it's just the humiliation of impeachment not actual imprisonment.

[Perky]

48. Yes they do

Impeachment would rally the GOP base and make it more difficult to win the off-year elections.

[yurbud]

53. good point--counterpoint: how do you get Dems to show up if...

you stand for as little as possible?

You have to actually give people a positive reason to vote, not just let the republicans shit on themselves and us and expect everyone to draw the correct conclusions.

[Perky]

62. I did not say we stand for nothing

All I said was that the impeachment process has only been used when there is divided government. It is unrealistic to think this president would be impeached by his own party in an election year. It just would never happen.

Now having said that. Could the Dems stand up as one and call for impeachment of course they could. It does not seem to be in the cards though. Dems are running fore election. we win the House back only if we pick off moderate republicans in districts where we got 45% or more.


It is difficult to win those seats when the Republicans are going to be rallying the base regarding possible impeachment.

I think we should take the president and Congress to house on a variety of issues including the war and including domestic spying. I just think playing the impeachment card should not even be on the table unless and until we win back the house.

[yurbud]

70. I understand that it can't be done BEFORE election but talking about it

is a way to show you will be tough and do the necessary business after.

Do you guys really think that a lot of bland happy talk is going to inspire confidence and action from people?

We need to make concrete proposals consistent with our principles AND not be afraid to say how we differ with the GOP and what they have done wrong.

A campaign has to tell a story, and a story has bad guys and conflict as well as good guys. If you don't have conflict, you don't have urgency.

[Perky]

63. I did not say we stand for nothing

All I said was that the impeachment process has only been used when there is divided government. It is unrealistic to think this president would be impeached by his own party in an election year. It just would never happen.

Now having said that. Could the Dems stand up as one and call for impeachment of course they could. It does not seem to be in the cards though. Dems are running fore election. we win the House back only if we pick off moderate republicans in districts where we got 45% or more.


It is difficult to win those seats when the Republicans are going to be rallying the base regarding possible impeachment.

I think we should take the president and Congress to house on a variety of issues including the war and including domestic spying. I just think playing the impeachment card should not even be on the table unless and until we win back the house.

[Triana]

57. Wrong. Kerry has mentioned it also. However...

..the Repukes will NOT impeach one of their own NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES. So, IF he were to be impeached that would only be AFTER Dems win dominance in the House in 2006 IF that happens (which is what Kerry said) -- and since we have NO VIABLE ELECTIONS anymore in this country, don't hold your breath.

It's still nice to talk about though. ;)

[G_j]

59. please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot!

Let the people express what they want, when they want!

Plant the seeds. Let the word gain power! Scream it from the rooftops!
I will never put all my hopes in politicians. It is the PEOPLE in this country who need to speak. You can't tell me to wait for the "system".
That is dis-empowering. Encourage the people to speak out about what they want, NOW!

[Walt Starr]

60. Yea, all those DUers who say that there is no way to impeach the lying

bastard over his flagrant violation of the law have their heads up their but (sic).

[LWolf]

61. Who are the anonymous "American People?"

I am an American person, and I assure you that I am ravenous for impeachment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. We need to do it for the message it sends.

Forget that Cheney would replace him. Forget all that about who would replace him.

Impeach him for the message it sends to him, his cabinet and the entire Republican party.

I don't even care if it works. I just want him to know how deeply we disapprove of his actions.

[Perky]

67. WE NEED TO DESTROY THE NEOCON MOVEMENT AT THE BALLOT BOX

Not on the Senate Floor.
I do not want to make Bush into a Martyr when he already has a Messiah complex.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Why not do both? n/t

[LWolf]

72. Exactly.

Also....I don't remember Tricky Dick as any kind of a martyr; do you? The reality of impeachment did the "trick" there, without him ever being impeached.

Bill Clinton certainly isn't a martyr.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. I remember Tricky Dick as a

fool, especially towards the end of his reign.

He lost his base. Remember that?

[LWolf]

76. Yes.

I have a question about that in regards to GWB. Look at who his base is. Will they ever allow personal ethics or conscience to interfere with their support?

A rise in the conscience of America will leave GWB and his crew overboard without a life preserver.

[B Calm]

65. I'm guessing here, but does but equal butt in the op?

[AndreaCG]

69. Actually Hastert would become president

If both Bush and Cheney were impeached before another VP could be confirmed.

[FreedomAngel82]

71. Wasn't there a poll

not too long ago where 50% of the people polled said if they knew Bush lied about going to war they would want him impeached? Has there been another poll since than? It's up to us to get people out and vote democratic so we can take back the House and hold hearings and impeach the bastard.

[sweetheart]

74. Elephant's penis

You are using the old elephant penis argument, wet and large, as the
elephant bends over to fuck us. And we can't call it a rape, as we should
be focused on the next poll. Sorry, the elephant penis precludes any need
to respect the previous frame. It has become a criminal matter, and
the rapists needs taken in to custody.

[LSK]

75. give it one year

After a winter of high heating bills, another summer of $3 gas, Fitzmas in full swing, and no progress in Iraq, when we win the House in 2006, they will be ready.

[yodermon]

77. The idea

is to paint shrubya as so much politically kryptonite, so that any congressperson who SUPPORTS him will be politically vulnerable.

To take it further--if more indictments come down (rove cheney et. al) and more abramoff scandals are exposed, and the 2004 election fraud is exposed, {and actually gets covered by the corp.media - big caveat, that}.. then perhaps any congressperson who ISN'T ACTIVELY CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT will be politically vulnerable. Get the drift?

I'm not saying that it WILL go down this way, but it's the scenario I like to shoot for.

2006 midterms will be a referendum on chimpy, and there's tons and tons of sh*t that hasn't even come close to hitting the mainstream yet.

[newportdadde]

79. I agree with the OP most likely it will never happen, lets analyze this

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

First the likely hood of impeachment if the Republicans maintain control of the House and Senate is near on zero. Lets be honest here, they stick together, something our party could use a lesson in. They will continue to stick together if they maintain control after 2006. A victory in 2006 will make them pretty damn confident given how badly things are in the crapper.

Lets say we get the house, we would have it by a marginal majority. I think the likely hood with DLC candidates in there of getting the articles through would be slim. Not only are they not unified but they just finally got power back they might be reluctant to rock the boat. The Republicans now scorned at loosing the house would close ranks like never before and become a steal curtain of talking points.

Lets say we get the articles through and it goes to the Senate. It requires a 2/3rd majority to pass.. it will never happen with a Republican controlled Senate obviously. Lets say we do have control which again as I understand the seats up for grabs that would be by a very slim margin. Do you honestly see enough Republicans coming over to get a 2/3rds majority? In our scenario they just lost the house and they lost the Senate majority they will go to hell before they give up their last hold which is the Presidency! Further more do you think DINOs like Lieberman or Biden would ever in their wildest dreams be so bold.. hell fucking no they are bought and paid for corporate Senators.


Impeachment wildcards:

Gas prices and other costs. The attitude towards the president becomes so horrible due to wallet pain they impeach to try and clean out their party. I believe this to be an very outside chance at best given that 40% seems to hang in there no matter what. Again extremely outside but if his popularity was bad enough I could perhaps see some RW senators defect to save their own ass.

Another terrorist attack.. well I think this is a wildcard but in all honesty I think even if we are nuked we would see Bush's approval rating sore because thats just how we play the game we go offensive and we rally. However I thought I would mention this because its possible Bush would be blamed although I doubt thats how it would play out.