White people are mutants.

[baldguy]

'splains alot, uh?

Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's greatest sources of strife.

The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races.

more:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501728_pf.html

[Richard D]

1. That is interesting

especially considering that less melanin is plus in locations with less sun exposure.

[Catherine Vincent]

2. So how did the hair go from curly to straight?

[dflprincess]

16. Some white people have curly hair.

My dad had curly hair (when he had hair).

[Catherine Vincent]

17. I know that but most caucasians have straight hair.

How did it get that way? Inquirng minds want to know.:)

[dflprincess]

24. I suppose it was another mutation.

n/t

[wickerwoman]

55. Here's what I remember

from a BBC documentary. Africans have curly hair because the follicle is ovular and Asians have straight hair because the follicle is round. Most accounts have primitive man travelling from Africa into Asia and then up into Europe. So Caucasians have mostly wavy hair (with some curly and straight haired throwbacks) because we have a combination of Asian and African ancestors, round and ovular follicles.

[WLKjr]

57. I am white, red headed and my hair was curly when I was a baby

if I let it grow out enough it starts to curl again.

[cantstandbush]

69. But you ancestors originated in Africa...just some recessive gene. n/t

[Jamastiene]

64. In my mother's case, only after many failed attempts to straighten

it using commercial products did everything from turn her hair green (not on purpose) to burn it and make it fall out. Finally, she started using tons of hairspray and mousse and a hair dryer and a spray bottle full of water. It takes her several hours after washing it to straighten it.

I was the first in my family to be born with straight hair for many years. I guess that means I'm the black sheep of the family. Or would I be the black sheep in this case? I don't know. I just don't look like the rest of my family because of my straight hair. I have one uncle who has an afro, but only because he is the only male family member with long hair that I can remember. In any case, my mother goes through a lot to get rid of the curls. :shrug:

[B Calm]

120. I haven't had hair since I was 22. Could have been the drugs..

[AlienGirl]

125. Different mutations, and not necessarily connected! nt

[liberaltrucker]

3. I've known that all along

And I'm a white guy:rofl: Seriously, the fundies and KKK types are gonna shit a brick:popcorn:

[pretzel4gore]

4. adam and eve was white as toby's ass.!

according to my bible anyway (it got pictures)

[Conservativesux]

5. The "Humans From Africa" idea is a myth. No one knows where humans

came from originally for ceratin, and thats the only fact there is right now.

Besides, does it really matter?

[Cleita]

7. Most anthropologists would really disagree with you.

What are your credentials and sources for your statement?

[liberaltrucker]

8. Yes, it matters to science

and science is all we have to find the truth. If it "bothers" you that humanity may have originated in Africa, you have my sympathy.

[pretzel4gore]

56. these fukkers say bush was elected!

they lie so much it's pathalogical, and the 'scientific' bullshitters are the worst....for example, no sailer ever thought the world was 'flat' like the bs'ers who created the columbus myth try to say (and say and say and insist and say ad nazism) ...the ancients noticed treetops before the sandy beach; they saw the moon round in the sky, and the planets distinct from stars-they knew the planets were round, why not the earth?
one good thing about the regan-bush era; any pretense of cultural supremacy, much less racial, by our side is exposed as bunk, just like the saintly Che once said ie 'history is bunk'; the bushviks are so shamelessly stupid and grasping they mock the memory of papa doc duvalier, or nero/heliogabalus etc....they get away with it cuz the pigmedia press is fulla oink ie the world is flat sayeth friedman....

[Conservativesux]

87. It doesnt bother me one bit. I just dont see enough evidence that

humans origanted in Africa, and thats the end of the story, according to some, not all, scientists.

We are all brothers and sisters, no matter where we came from.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. So what continent do you think humans derived from?

[Conservativesux]

21. Most scientists who discredit the Africa model say "Asia".

[Crunchy Frog]

30. Links? n/t

[Conservativesux]

50. Here is just one link for those of you with pre-conceived notions....

about human origins.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050530/primate.html

[blindpig]

58. You're going a bit too far back.

Those critters were pre-anthropoids. The hominid line evolved in Africa, though apparently derived from such creatures.

[Crunchy Frog]

60. A fascinating article

but hardly relevant to the issue of whether or not humans originated in Africa. This article is not about the origins of humans, but rather the origins of a group of primates called anthropoids, which encompasses humans, apes, old world monkeys, and new world monkeys; in other words, all the higher primate groups.

"Together, the fossil anthropoid primates that are known from China, Thailand, Myanmar and now Pakistan constitute an impressive amount of data indicating that the 'higher primate' lineage that today includes all monkeys, apes, and humans must have originated in Asia, not in Africa as earlier scientists believed," Beard said.

This article is talking about events that happened a good 20 to 25 million years before the emergence of the earliest hominids. In fact, this article itself suggests that humans originated in Africa.

He added that the new evidence, to him, indicated that "an early member of this (anthropoid Asian group) made its way to Africa, where they continued to evolve and diversify, eventually giving rise to living monkeys, apes and humans."

So, nice try but no cigar. I'm not sure why this is such an issue for you.:shrug:

[WindRavenX]

45. Completely, utterly wrong

Use of mitochondria DNA (mDNA) has traced humanity to a single female in Africa-- Mitochondria Eve.

The debate is whether there was ONE massive migration out of Africa or if there were TWO migrations out of Africa; but there is no debate as to where humanity originated.

[Marr]

51. Exactly.

[Moochy]

11. Haplotype Maps contradict your assertion

http://www.hapmap.org/originhaplotype.html.en

The fossil record and genetic evidence indicate that all humans today are descended from anatomically modern ancestors who lived in Africa about 150,000 years ago. Because we are a relatively young species, most of the variation in any current human population comes from the variation present in the ancestral human population. Also, as humans migrated out of Africa, they carried with them part but not all of the genetic variation that existed in the ancestral population. As a result, the haplotypes seen outside Africa tend to be subsets of the haplotypes inside Africa. In addition, haplotypes in non-African populations tend to be longer than in African populations, because populations in Africa have been larger through much of our history and recombination has had more time there to break up haplotypes.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. Actually, it's very well established that humans originated in Africa.

It's not a myth, it's a scientific fact backed up by mountains of evidence. I'd be interested to see your evidence that they originated somewhere else.

I guess it only really matters to those with some level of intellectual curiosity. I know that I like to have some understanding of where I came from.

[H2O Man]

62. True.

No serious scientist disputes that humans originated in Africa. There are interesting theories about the patterns of humans leaving Africa, to populate other parts of the earth. But there is really no question that humans started the journey from Africa.

[stepnw1f]

19. wow.... Afraid of the Truth?

:rofl:

[Conservativesux]

88. The TRUTH as you see it, or the real truth?

Sorry, the jury is still out on that one.

[datasuspect]

77. dude or dudette

africa is the motherland. it is the home of the original man. can you dig it? or is an idea like that abhorrent to you? and if it is, why?

[Conservativesux]

89. So certain, you are, padawan, are you not?

[Cleita]

6. Years ago when Richard Leaky had discovered homo

habilis in Africa, I mentioned it to a white customer of mine from the south. He swore up and down that there was no way humanity was decended from dark Africans. It was really funny how piqued he got.

I hope more stories like this see the light of day. It's time the whole bigotocracy learns the truth.

[rfranklin]

9. I am a proud white-skinned African American...

And I stay in touch with my cousins, the great apes.

[liberaltrucker]

12. Does my redneck brother-in-law count?

Just askin' On edit...shit, I forgot this ain't The Lounge. Sorry:hide:

[Shadowen]

32. Funny.

I was just relating a story at work about a white kid from South Africa who came to America, tried to get involved with something that used the phrase "African-American" in school, and was rejected.

And also about how technically speaking, Charlize Theron is African-American, but she's as blonde-haired and blue-eyed as you can be.

[RB TexLa]

35. Is she a US citizen?

If so then yes she is an African-American by her birth in Africa but of Dutch ancestry. If she is not a US citizen then she is an South African of Dutch ancestry.


It's funny how we refer to other people by content such as Africans, Europeans, Asians, yet you don't see Mexicans, Canadians and Colombians refered to as Americans. :shrug:

[Shadowen]

36. I believe she is an American citizen, yes.

Not sure. But I believe she lives in Hollywood, and has for several years now.

[RagingInMiami]

52. Mexicans and Colombians are Latin Americans

[H2O Man]

63. Some are.

Many are, of course, native Central Americans, without any "Latin" at all.

[RagingInMiami]

81. Others are Native Americans or Indegenious Americans

Or whatever it is they consider themselves.

[H2O Man]

84. Central Americans

are the Indigenous People.

[RagingInMiami]

85. So you're saying there's no indigenous people in South America

What about the Incas, just to name one of many tribes down there.

[H2O Man]

86. Nope.

Didn't say that. You did. I have no idea why.

[RagingInMiami]

90. "Central Americans are the Indigenous People"

How else should I interpret that comment?

[H2O Man]

91. Locate Central America

on a globe, or map, and you will understand.

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. Well you've confused me

because Central America, as understood by everyone, is the region from Guatemala to Panama. eg http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/centralamerica.html

Which is why the question about Incas was a good one. Can you explain your position explicitly, please?

[H2O Man]

93. I'm not sure

what about the geographic area called Latin America is confusing for you. Perhaps you could tell me where on earth you place it? That might be a good starting place, especially considering that it was the root of this conversation. If you could be so kind as to explain where you "position (it) explicitly, please?"

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. I count Latin America as everything from Mexico southwards

on the continent, and possibly including Caribbean islands that were controlled by Spain, such as Cuba (you might make a case for French-controlled islands too, I suppose). I'm not cofused by that. But you started restricting indigenous Americans to Central America, which, as I said, is Guatemala to Panama - a subset of Latin America (though I suppose it includes Belize as well, which strictly isn't part of Latin America, I'd say). So I'm trying to find out why you think only that area has indigenous Americans. Now you know how I define Latin America and Central America, can you give us your definition of Central America, which perhaps with explain why you think "Central Americans are the indigenous people"?

I would point out that there are indigenous Americans in North, Central and South America.

[RagingInMiami]

126. I'm still waiting your explanation

Do you have one or were you just talking out of your ass?

[RagingInMiami]

96. I still don't understand

[Orangepeel]

80. the term "Mexican-American" is very common where I grew up

on the Texas border. I never thought about it much, but it makes sense that it would be used by people who are proud of both components.

[RB TexLa]

83. That is everywhere

I am an Irish-American. I very rarely if ever refer to myself as an American. Was always taught the first part is much more important.

[Crunchy Frog]

13. Actually, all organisms living on Earth are mutants.

In order to evolve from single cell bacteria into humans, our lineage had to go through shit loads of mutations. It's my understanding that skin color is controlled by a large number of genes, and that seems likely considering the wide range of skin tones that exist, even just among Europeans.

I hate to be a killjoy. I just can't stand scientific illiteracy, or overstating things just to make a political point. We're all mutants, every one of us, as much as everyone else.

[Cleita]

14. Thanks Crunchy Frog.

You are so right. I was just enjoying the moment. Without mutations we would still be the primordial soup they talk about.

[izzybeans]

18. Without mutation no frog could be crunchy nor any bean izzy

Seems to make sense given the natural history of the species. ;)

[ulysses]

29. 'zacktly.

:thumbsup:

[Qanisqineq]

53. that is exactly what I was going to say

we are all mutants, as are all plants and animals and bacteria, fungi, etc.

[spacelady]

112. That is surely the voice of reason, I think mutations are mostly

adaptions to terrain & climate, among other things--whatever it takes to survive. I guess that makes me a Darwinist.

[JanMichael]

20. They're certainly the recipients of political and economic privilege!

Racism is an ECONOMIC and POLITICAL Institutional construct as it doesn't exist in science/reality yet exists in culture and society.

It MUST end. It has to end someday. I hope in my lifetime people wake the fuck up and stop fucking over darker folks, PERIOD!

[Cleita]

22. Racism is a peculiar outcrop of our equal society.

In some places in the world, where class and status dictate your place, race isn't important.

For example the son of an African chief/king or Saudi prince could be educated at Oxford and be accepted in many societies as an aristocrat regardless of his race because he belongs in their caste.

Ancient Rome also had a system like this, where the son of a King from other lands could be fostered and educated in Rome. Attila the Hun was one such prince who was fostered in Rome.

[JanMichael]

26. That's the second target on my list...Class.

Another human economic construct that deprives individuals of potential.

[laureloak]

25. Poverty must end.

If it did I think we would hear very little about racism.

[HawkerHurricane]

23. Sure does 'splain a lot...

like how those beams shoot out of my eyes, and how I can read minds, and move things without touching them...

[Clara T]

27. Are you Sure?

Okay maybe you're right. Too many examples for it not to be true. I love this thread.

[Swamp Rat]

48. lemme help

:D

[Mr_Spock]

28. Hey, I resemble that!

:D

[leeroysphitz]

31. This just in from The Journal: Duh! n/t

[WHAT]

33. That's what Malcom X said...

(I'm pretty sure it was him). I remember reading that and agreeing with his reasoning but nobody would talk to me about it at the time (I was kind of young). He said that whiteness was a recessive trait and that black people preceeded white people so whitness must have been a mutation...that struck me as logical. It was in the 60's.

[mark414]

37. yes he said that...

there was a vocal clip on the public enemy "fear of a black planet" track that was similar...

black man, black woman, black baby
white man, white woman, white baby
black man, white woman, black baby
white man, black woman, black baby

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Not really accurate, especially since skin color is influenced

by multiple genes rather than just one. When two people of different skin colors have babies together, the resulting skin color is highly variable based on which particular genes the kid inherits. Black person, white person usually equals baby of some shade of beige.

But then again, Malcom X was not a geneticist.

[H2O Man]

59. What Malcolm said

was, in fact, accurate. When he went beyond Elijah's fable about the mad scientist and the space ship, and talked about the colors of the human race, he was accurate. Though he wasn't a geneticist, he was up-to-date on an amazing range of topics, including science as it related to human evolution. And, of course, his family was a mixture of the colors of the human family.

As far as "mutants," the human family fits that description, including all the colors of skin, hair, eyes, etc. Only a person lacking insight into the beauty of humanity would be silly enough to think one group is mutant to the exclusion of others.

[Crunchy Frog]

66. I'd be interested to learn more about what Malcom X actually

had to say about the issue. I admit to being very uninformed in that area. I was simply responding to the previous post which attributed this statement to him:
black man, black woman, black baby
white man, white woman, white baby
black man, white woman, black baby
white man, black woman, black baby

Having encountered many people who were the offspring of mixed race unions, I know that statement to be inaccurate. They generally have a skin tone that is intermediate between the two parents. Of course, he may have been defining "black" according to the "one drop" rule, but that is a purely social construct and has nothing to do with actual skin color.

I agree with you about all humans (indeed all living organisms) being mutants. In fact, I was taught in genetics class that each individual carries a dozen or so new mutations. Minute changes in the genome from generation to generation are a fact of life and provide the raw materials for evolution to take place.

[H2O Man]

68. I think

that statement was attributed to someone other than Malcolm, but was said to be similar to his position. When I get into another room, I'll look for some of the books that have his thoughts on the topic. But, in general, they were based on the same books that I think (from reading your other posts on this thread) that you have likely read. Of course, advances have been made since 1965. But Malcolm was interested in what Louis and Mary Leakey were finding at the time, and was being reported in a series of three articles in National Geographic. (I am thinking the NG tv special on Leakey came out just after Malcolm's death.) But safe to say that at the time of his death, Malcolm saw humanity as a family, and viewed the outer differences as the result of evolutionary process involving the journey out of Africa. He did not believe that any group was significantly different, or of any greater strength or value, than any other. He believed that science was making advances that would help remove foolish ideas of superiority from one group or another.

Malcolm had an amazing mind. Just as he was fascinated by the Leakeys' finds, he loved things like the Dead Sea Scrolls. He believed in objectively examining everything, and didn't think that science and religion contradicted one another.

The photo below is of a collection of 50 artifacts from Bed 1 of the Olduvai Gorge; they had belonged to a close friend who died two years ago.

[Crunchy Frog]

70. Looks like I need to do some reading up about Malcolm.

Thanks for the info. I probably didn't read the same books that Malcolm did, as they were a bit before my time, but I do enjoy reading books about evolution, though mostly more contemporary ones.

Wonderful picture that you have there. Those are Oldowan tools?

[H2O Man]

71. Yes, most are.

Some are (were) bones, but most are tools. In the photo, directly below the basket is a shell, and a bone that appears to be from an antelope-like animal. I've got to bring them to a local university, where a friend will be able to tell me more. (My main interest in archaeology is the northeastern USA. My friend, who was associated with Syracuse U and the NYS U's Iroquois' studies, had primarily been interested in historic, pre-Revolutionary War Oneida sites. But he had had the good fortune to travel the world on his vacations, and study the history of the human family more thoroughly than most people. It was a shame when his collection was "auctioned" after his death, as it was worthy of a good museum.)

[Ladyhawk]

97. When presented with evidence, Malcolm was able to change his mind.

I recently re-read The Autobiography of Malcolm X and was struck by that trait. I think in time he would have become less misogynistic just as he became more tolerant of white people. As he gained knowledge his positions on issues became less radical.

Elijah Muhammed did teach that black people came first, but apparently an evil dude (can't remember his name) created the white race to wreak havoc on the world. That's where the whole thing really fell apart, scientifically, although I admit the white race has been pretty nasty to the rest of the world. The slavery and colonialism that rose from European empires is completely disgusting. Today we are reaping what we've sown and still sowing more besides.

[entanglement]

117. The evil scientist was called Yakub

n/t

[Solomon]

72. no no, Crunchy. You are looking at it the wrong way. There was a time

when the words "black person" referred to people of color, i.e. non-whites. This was the peculiar american system where it didn't matter if you just had one drop of "negro" blood, you were still classified as a "negro".

Looked at in the way the quote was meant to be, it would be more accurate to say it this way:

non-white man, non-white woman, non-white baby
white man, white woman, white baby
non-white man, white woman, non-white baby
white man, nonwhite woman, non-white baby.

This is the basic theory behind Neeley Fuller's explanation of white supremacy and racism. It is expounded upon in Francis Cress Welsing's "Isis: The Keys To The Colors".

In a nutshell the theory is as follows: white people know that they are a minority of people on the planet earth. All other persons are non-white. The birthrates of white persons are much lower than non-white persons. And, if the world truly integrated, the white "race" would melt away into the gene pool. Some whites don't care about this, some whites do. The whites that do fear genetic annihilation. The only way to stop genetic annihilation is to maintain power and control over the non-whites.

[Crunchy Frog]

78. I could give a flying fuck what the melanin content

of people's skin is. Within the human species there is a continuous gradation in skin colors between very dark to very light. Any particular shade within that gradation is going to be a "minority". There are even gradations within what is considered the "white race" (which is nothing but an artificial social construct anyway). I expect that there will continue to be a wide range in skin tones, but who cares really (other than racists).

I think that any "theory" that places excessive emphasis on the relative amounts of melanin in people's epidermises are racist and full of shit. "Genetic annihilation" isn't a realistic fear anyway. That happens as a result of failing to produce offspring. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the melanin content of said offspring.

I would hope that nobody is still promoting those outdated racial theories, particularly not on a progressive board.

[Solomon]

99. It doesn't matter what flying fucks you or anyone else gives. The one

drop of black blood makes you black was a reality in this country for more than 200 years.

Denying that doesn't make it go away. This is a reality that white supremacy set up, not the people who analyze it.

I'm trying to show you what the quote meant. Now put your head back down in the sand.

White supremacy has treated non-whites like shit for generations. It succeeds because it keeps them separating and fighting each other.

When non-whites stop fighting each other over the gradations of skin color and look at the reality, white vs. non-white, then white supremacy will finally end.

That's the fear of racist whites whether you like it or not.

The fact that you don't give a flying fuck about melanin content doesn't help the millions of people who were denied basic human rights because they had that drop of black blood. Nor does it erase whatever advantages you got out of it by being white. Now go ahead and deny that you got any advantage out of it whatsoever. And learn something about what "progressive" means.

[Crunchy Frog]

100. I'm not the enemy here.

I'm completely opposed to racism, and just because a racial belief system that is scientifically nonsensical dominated in this country for a long time, does not mean that I have to give it any credence.

I hope you're not trying to accuse me of being racist or non-progressive just because I don't buy in to the "one drop" rule.

I certainly know that there are racist whackos out there, and that many people are still disadvantaged on the basis of their skin color. I certainly don't deny that my being white has given me certain advantages in this society. I also don't deny that racist whites have irrational fears and hold onto bogus scientific theories. I just don't happen to think that progressives should be playing into those beliefs by giving them any credence at all.

It's sort of like saying that I know there a bunch of shitheads who believe in creationism, but that doesn't mean that I have to acknowledge those beliefs as having any validity.

Guess what. For thousands of years, women have been seen in many cultures as being less than human. Over the past few hundred years, people have tried to give that belief credence by coming up with various "scientific" justifications for seeing women as inferior. I see that you are male. I'd like to see you go ahead and deny that you've gotten any advantage out of being male in a male dominated society.

I think I've just about said my piece. I have no wish to start a fight with you, when I don't even know what it is about what I'm saying that seems to upset you so much. To reiterate, I'm completely opposed to racism, and I'm opposed to bogus "scientific" theories that are used to justify racism. I don't deny that some people buy into those theories, I just don't agree with giving them any credence.

[Solomon]

103. Oh just stop it. Again. I cannot believe how arrogant you are. It

doesn't matter whether YOU buy into the one drop rule or not. It was a fucking fact that existed actually for quite a bit more than two hundred years, more like four hundred years in this country.

Get over it. There are literally millions of people who remain adversely affected by the enforcement of the one drop rule.

Again, I was just trying to explain how far off you guys are in talking about actual skin colors resulting from black and white integration. There have been many names for black people over the years, and each one of those names, whether "colored", "negro", "black" or now african-american, refer to colors ranging from jet black to almost white.

In other words, very light-skinned people were called "black" in this country. Therefore the meaning of the phrase black man, white women equals black baby, is that the result of interracial mating is "non-white".

I don't know why you insist on arguing about it from the persepctive of what YOU "buy or not". What you think about it is totally irrelevant.

I'm just guessing that you might be kind of young. Not really old enough to understand the history of how to refer to the people that are now called african-americans.

Lastly, if you think that fear of genetic annihilation is silly and just a bogus scientific theory then you got a lot to learn about white supremacy.

(Yeah,I know, you believe white supremacy is a thing of the past, dont cha?)

[Crunchy Frog]

104. Okay, whatever.

I'm not going to try to continue a debate with you when I can't even figure out what it is that you're trying to argue with me about.

Did I say anywhere that I don't believe there are still white supremacists out there? If I somehow stated or implied that, then I was wrong and I apologize. I do, however, believe that the theories upon which they base their beliefs and fears are silly and irrational (though obviously very destructive).

Since (as I said before) I'm not sure where our points of disagreement are, I will now drop this discussion.

[shanti]

113. don't drop the discussion now

you've only just begun to learn! it's ok not to understand! solomon knows what he's talking about. please listen to him.

[shanti]

111. whoa, chill dude

nobody's calling you out. it's just that as a wm, you really don't know unless you or yours have been affected by it. racism is alive and kicking in the us of a, even though you may wish to think otherwise.

keep fighting it, tho!

[Crunchy Frog]

119. I'm not a dude, and I thought I had made it clear

that I know racism is alive and well in this country. I don't know how many ways I can state that. I also know that, not being AA, I can't really know what that means, but I fully respect that it's something that people are living with in this country.

The ONLY point that I was trying to make is that I don't give any credence to the outdated racial theories with which white supremacists justify their hatred. I don't know what it is that you want from me. Do you want me to accept the premises of white supremacists? I'm not going to do that, and if you think that somehow makes me a racist, then I'll just have to live with that.

I'm not going to continue on with this discussion, since I honestly don't know where the conflict is, and I seem to be pointlessly making people mad at me. Maybe the two of you can continue the discussion with each other.

[shanti]

110. thank you, solomon

as the parent of a biracial b/w son, i understand.

[shanti]

109. check this

you can believe whatever you want to believe (are you white?), but the fact is that if you look outwardly "black" you will be perceived as such by the majority of americans, regardless.

[Crunchy Frog]

121. I don't deny that, and I don't believe that I ever did on this thread.

I do think that I have the right to my own beliefs that skin color is not a valid basis on which to judge people, and that theories that justify racism are bad theories. I apologize if you or anyone else finds that offensive.

[Solomon]

123. Crunchy. It's okay. But you must always remember. The fact that you

are not a racist doesn't mean there are not a hell of a lot of people who are.

If you can't see that white genetic annihilation would be a fact if there were true integration in the world, then I don't know what to tell you, except you're being awfully hardheaded.

Do you really believe that some white people are racist simply because they don't LIKE black people?

No that's just silly. Usually in life, opposites attract and find differences fascinating.

Do you really believe there were laws against intermarriage, and segregation, because whites didn't LIKE blacks?

Why do you think the white "races" (I agree by the way that race is an artificial construct) have spent more resources on bombs, bullets and weapons?

Let's put it this way. For people who believe that there's a race war or will be one, one side has bombs and bullets... the other side has sperm.

Let me recommend "Isis Papers: The Keys to the Colors". I don't believe everything in the book, but it did help me to understand white supremacy and how it operates. Basically in every sphere of human endeavor, i.e. economically, politically, socially, religiously,financially, in every way imaginable. The worst brunt of racism is reserved for the darkest males because the darkest males have the greatest genetic power to produce non-white. And the brunt of the racism is thrown at them in every way imaginable. It's so allcompassing that people become easily confused by it.

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers so much, but you were totally missing the point and were being quite belligerent about it. It's as hard for a white person to see white supremacy today as it is for fish to see the water that they swim in.

[CJCRANE]

82. I think you're correct

white colouration and characteristics (like blonde hair and blue eyes) aren't totally recessive and can crop up in so-called "mixed" babies.

Also a lot of black people have some white ancestors and vice versa so there is a lot more diversity than just "black" and "white".

[shanti]

108. it's not referring to "skin tone"

it's referring to how they are seen in society.

[Nikia]

61. That was what I was taught in college biology

The original humans could have carried the white gene. Since multiple genes were involved, a few infants with very light skin would be born. These light skin infants would probably become ill living close to the equator and less likely to reproduce or reproduce as often. As humans migrated north, light skin would not be as selected against. As humans migrated to the further north, light skin would become selected for because of vitamin D production with little sun.
I am not sure yet how this gene fits into this, but I was taught that multiple genes were involved.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. To be fair, isn't pretty much EVERYTHING a mutation?

I mean, unless you're an "Intelligent Design" proponent.. how the hell else would a trait appear.

Interesting to speculate on whether or not that particular mutation also eliminated the ability to look cool while dancing.

[Beam Me Up]

38. Spontanious mutation or alien genetic manipulation?

Just thought I'd throw that in.

[sleipnir]

39. Time Machine: "Irony is that outcast "whitey" ends up enslaving oppressor

I bet that tens of thousands of years ago, the white skinned person or small group of people were driven out of Africa because of their difference. The irony of the situation is probably extraordinary...if only they knew the repercussions of their actions on the world...

Differences were something to be feared by early humans (and sadly, they still are...) Until a decade or two ago, several African tribes still considered twins to be evil and that they must be killed.

[shanti]

114. really? (about twins)

with the high prevalence of twins in africa, this is puzzling...

[AlienGirl]

124. "Differences were something to be feared by early humans..."

Actually, we can't know to what extent differences were feared by early human societies, because they didn't leave historical records. What we do know is that people with pretty severe injuries and birth defects were cared for well enough to live; we can infer from that that *someone* cared enough to feed them. I would guess that early human cultures--like historical and modern ones--probably ran the gamut from ostracizing and marginalizing different people to making them celebrities (as women with extremely unusual body types are, even today, made celebrities for their odd appearance).

Modern tribeal cultures are not representatives of "Stone-Age culture" and are different from each other in attitude toward unusual people, just as they are different from post-industrial USA culture and from post-industrial Japanese culture.

Tucker

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. This is a fascinating finding - just ONE BASE PAIR out of something like

THREE BILLION in our genome is changed to give the lighter skin. Presumably at least in part because of the need for light exposure for production of vitamin D in the weaker light and long, dim winters of northern climates, this mutation was strongly selected for away from the tropics.

[Cleita]

44. Or an Ice Age with gray overcast skies.n/t

[Moochy]

76. It's possible that the lack of melanin

Was allowed to proliferate amongst populations in cloudier environments, where people were mostly clothed. Natural selection.
Skin pigment can vary in individuals of the same exact family, wildly, in that darker olive complexions can become very very pale if sheltered from the sun for long periods. But it had to start with the initial mutation.

[Hyernel]

42. That explains how I'm able to shoot fire from my fingertips.

And venom from my tongue!

[BlueStateModerate]

43. 'splains alot, uh?

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

[kineneb]

46. well, duh! How else could they survive the winters

in Scandinavia? Lighter skin allows easier absorption of vitamin D. Conversely, lighter skin can fatal in extremely sunny climes (hence my paranoia about sunburns and skin cancer).

...thoughts from a natural blond...

[Maddy McCall]

47. We're all mutants in one form or another.

[Swamp Rat]

49. Especially Michael Jackson

:D

[RagingInMiami]

54. All humans are mutants

It's what evolution is all about. The original humans probably mutated into dark skin people in order to adapt to the harsh sun in Africa.

White people probably became white in order to adapt to colder climates up north.

And you know the old stereotype (or is it?) about the difference in penis size between black and white men.

Well, we all know what cold weather does to the penis.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

65. I thought that all adaptations began as mutations

isn't that the basis for evolution?

[Crunchy Frog]

67. Yes. As someone pointed out above,

"Without mutations we would still be the primordial soup".

[Rex]

Always knew I was a mutant.

Now where are my super powers?

[Marr]

73. How about thick beards?

I wonder, was that a mutation in the group that migrated northward, or is it a feature that all humanity shared at one point, but was selected out in other populations?

[shanti]

115. well, hirsuteness

isn't exactly necessary in hot climates...

[Moochy]

116. Hair loss on the body

The lines on the human body where hair comes off, are along similar lines as a dolphin, bringing some people to theorize how we lost our hair because we were river and coastal apes. No hair has been found in human remains, but there is evidence that we subsited on shellfish for a long time.

Also the hair in th armpit and pubic regions spread the pheremones around more effectively than bald areas.
So we may have just enough hair to be sexy :)

I'm not sure about beards, but I believe that there is a genetic connection between the sino-tibetans and the first wave of amerindians who first came to North America around 21,000-17,000 BP (this date is in flux, but last I read, this was when the landbridge was still there. )

[Kitsune]

74. How come I can't breathe fire or anything then? :( *nt*

[evirus]

75. is this news?

i mean years ago i learned how white people are actual the "offshoots of humanity" in evolution terms

[porphyrian]

79. ALL people are mutants.

What's the point of singling out one mutation?

[johnnie]

94. This is silly

We all have mutated somewhere along the line.

What's this "'splains alot, uh?" supposed to mean? A little bit racist I would say, but that's understandable. Not everyone is "mutating" toward seeing beyond skin color and are still looking for ways to dig on "whitey" and maybe scientists will one day figure out why people are still racists.

[JNelson6563]

95. Actually, all humans experienced mutations

Perhaps you've heard talk of "evolution"? ;-) I believe the theory is mutations occured every 10-20,000 years.

:toast:

[Crunchy Frog]

101. Actually, when I took genetics, I was taught

that every single person has a dozen or so new mutations, so changes come into the gene pool every time a new person is born. There are specific genetic mutations that have become solidly entrenched in particular human populations even in quite recent times. An example of that is lactose tolerance in adulthood. This mutation predominates within cultures that have historically relied on dairy foods for nutrition, and various other metabolic mutations that are based in dietary habits of various populations. There are mutations involving the metabolism of alcohol for example.

Evolution didn't just stop once humans became "modern", and it isn't something that just happens every few thousand years. It's a continous, ongoing thing.

[JNelson6563]

122. Yes it's continuous even though

it seems we are DE-volving lately. ;-)

Julie

[Crunchy Frog]

102. delete.

Sorry, I accidentally double posted.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

105. Yep. We are ALL mutants and proudly so...

... except for those who believe that "Intelligent Design" twaddle.

Calling out one skin colour is just ridiculous.

The really important part of this discovery is that we understand just a little bit more about genetics. Isn't science fun?

[bridgit]

106. too much like the monkey/typewriter gambit = put a 'white mutant'...

any ole 'white mutant' in a room with a drafting pencil and a piece of paper an eventually it will re-invent the mercedes diesel :rofl:

you can if you wanna but i ain't buying it

[Clara T]

107. bump

[entanglement]

118. OMG! Mutants everywhere!

Run for your lives!
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