Anyone think Schwarzennegger dug his grave yesterday...?

[bliss_eternal]

or dug it a little deeper? ...with the whole Death Penalty thing?

It's not like he has many fans left in CA--but those that are against the death penalty (myself included), may have taken what happened yesterday as another thing to add to an already long list of just why he's gotta' go...

Just wondered what others here think...

[fooj]

1. I live in California and I think he totally MISCALCULATED!

Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I hope you are right

most californians (68%) agree with it.

I say fine, it is that widely accepted carry out the executions at dinner time....

hear me out...

Little factoid of US History, when the population started to loose its taste for it, it was moved behind the closed walls of the prison. Most who are in favor of it, have no clue what really goes on... so pre-empt all channels, and have your dinner with an execution... that I suspect will start to get people to go... no I don't think so. At the very least it will get the discusion going

[bliss_eternal]

14. That's an interesting point--

I wasn't aware that the proces was more 'out in the open' in prior years.

I was too young to know much about it at the time, I just know that once Manson was convicted and sentenced to death and within a short time, CA outlawed it. I wonder if this was why...

[Silverhair]

44. Last public execution was in the 1930's. NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. and I say, you suport it

the country supports it, fine, ALL AND I MEAN ALL EXECUTIONS have to preemt all TV and all radio programing, Cable, no cable, you mention it. In fact, they have to be moved to the public square... LETS GO PUBLIC WITH THEM NOW, and any excuses about the privacy of the bereaved is just that... hogwash. If people truly suport it, make it a holiday day, with people selling food, and make it a day out for the family.

[EFerrari]

84. That whole "privacy of the bereaved" thing is so insane

right now anyway. They go on television and become Howard Cosell for The Day. Or at least, the aggrieved bereaved seem to. :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Point is

they moved it behind closed walls because they were loosing the country. Most folks who suport it have NEVER seen a dead body, and teevee and movies don't count. They have never seen even clean deaths. We are culturally averse to death and have a youth cult... if all executions were moved to the public square and you cuold not avoid it... many of these folks who are pro DP woudl switch, I mean we have to protect the children....

All justifications for the DP come to one thing, a culture of revenge, pure and simple... and it is connected to many other things and IMHO this country really does NOT value life.

[EFerrari]

94. Well, those Puritans are still messing with us.

They were smelly ideologues and that whole deal undercut the family unit, a sense of a commuity that wasn't predatory and, anyone who was having a good time, lol.

Friggin' John Alden!

:rofl:

[Silverhair]

99. In my post #44 I was merely giving information.

I did not state an opinion of my own. I honestly don't know how I would feel about a public execution. It isn't something I think about as policy is not likely to change anytime soon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. And I say, the country supports it

lets make it public, what a better way to spend your Sunday, go in the morning to Church and the afternoon to the square to watch a good ol' hanging...

Now time for people to actually get behind this... hey only way it MIGHT have any smidgen of deterrent value.

[Sequoia]

111. Like they used to do for a hanging or witch burning.

Party down everyone. Nothing really changes expect the props. And the lynchings were the very worst with happy white ugly people laughing and posing for the newspapers with the man burning on the ground before them. America...love it or leave it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Actually there is a reason why it moved behind the

prison walls, and most people are unaware of this history... it was loosing traction, fast... especially affer some very gruesome hangings... people even started, gasp, lobying against it.

I suspect if they go public and we stop critizing the Saudis for those public beheadings... Americans are so squeaming about REAL death, that they will find out just how skin deep their support is. I am not kidding... That is why the DP lobby has done all they can to avoid cameras, (taken out after sparky failed and the horrible pictures were printed over the fold in a Philadelphia paper, prisoner had smoke coming out of his head and it TOOK over two hours for the man to die)... They know this goes into the public square and people are forced what they support in the name of revenge... support will go poof!

[Sequoia]

127. Oh God, that's awful, and very cruel. Two hours!!

[shanti]

118. you want to rub their noses in it?

hmmmm, it might just backfire on you. our society is very violent (see video games, teevee, etc.) a certain segment would probably enjoy it, just like they used to enjoy lynchings (picnics) back in the day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Not recently, that turn of events happened at the turn

of the last century, when the frontier mythos started to give way, and a couple of executions that went horribly wrong started the national discusion. They were hangins, and their prisoner lost too much weight, so when they were finally executed, they lost their heads, literally. It was so gruesome that witnesses, the town's people, demanded that the DP be abolished.

It is then that they started looking for more "humane methods" where sparky came from, and moved closed walls. Pro DP advocates back then realized that the public was loosing its taste for it. Hence why every time they say, most Muricans suport it, go public... they make all kinds of excuses.

[bliss_eternal]

56. Oh--ok--this is interesting.

It's sad and awful what happened, but I'm learning a lot. More than I ever expected I would from something like this.

[EFerrari]

92. Sort of like the Klan.

It's always surprised me how well America hid poverty. I hadn't considered how we systematically use this beautiful, spacious place to hide so many things that shame us.

On edit: There's a really interesting correlation between the invention of "privacy" and the state's control over its citizens (thinking about late 16th Century England, of all things).

[longship]

69. This is George Carlin's recommendation.

Myself, I think it is a good idea. If we are going to be so callous and so mean-spirited as to kill people we ought to show *everybody* what it's like. Let those who are so anxious to deal out death as justice witness the justice they so hungrily desire.

[bliss_eternal]

82. George Carlin

is a wise man. Very funny, and very wise!

[EFerrari]

89. George Carlin is right. n/t

[shanti]

117. back to the wild west

:(

[bliss_eternal]

11. Hi fooj--

Your avatar is SO cute!

I think you are right--he usually does miscalculate.

[EFerrari]

19. I agree, fooj. He blew it AGAIN pretty badly.

There were thousands of people at that vigil. Thousands. And those were the people who were moved to be there in person.

Hasta la Vista, Pendejo!

[bliss_eternal]

23. That many were at the vigil, sfexpat?

I didn't see a lot of vigil coverage--the few newspaper shots I saw I couldn't tell.

Wow--imagine if even half of those people are voting age--

[...of J.Temperance]

27. There's an execution tomorrow...so will those vigil people will they all

Go and set up camp outside the prison where tomorrow's execution is taking place?

Of course there's NO celebrities who have taken up the case of tomorrow's condemned person...but still they'll have injections stuck into their arm.

[bliss_eternal]

32. Um--what does this have to do w/my original question?

Do you have a comment about Gov. Schwarzennegger?

Otherwise... :shrug:

[...of J.Temperance]

36. Well, I just think it's interesting that there's not 40 threads about

How someone is getting executed tomorrow...considering we had like 40 threads about Mr. Williams and that the people that supported Mr. Williams were pretty hardcore in their support and also in their opposition to the Death Penalty.

I've asked this in your thread because there aren't any other threads about this subject that are currently in operation, so I put this in your thread.

I do think it's a valid question.

[EFerrari]

40. What is your theory about the attention Tookie Williams got

vs. this next person who is being murdered tomorrow?

[...of J.Temperance]

55. That Tookie had a PR team, celebrity endorsements, the bandwagon

In my opinion Tookie was worse than the person who's going to be executed tomorrow...although as I believed that Tookie deserved to be executed, I also believe that the person tomorrow deserves to be executed.

So, in this regard, I suppose I could be called consistent and equal opportunity.

The people who were starting 40 threads and nearly having complete breakdowns over Tookie Williams, and demanding that everybody send emails, faxes, phone calls...saying that they were lighting candles and crying and praying for Tookie...WHERE are those people NOW? I remember a lot of their names, but I don't want to specifically name people.

Tomorrow evening another murderer is going to be executed, these Tookie/Anti-Death Penalty people haven't even mentioned tomorrow nights gentleman, many of then I would suppose don't even know his name.

But if we go on their reasoning and what they were insisting over Tookie and if they're so bothered, then why aren't they having their vigils and their 40 threads about tomorrows condemned gentleman?

It's most curious, it really is...I'm curious as to why not myself.

[EFerrari]

64. I think those people are tired tonight. I know I am. It's possible

that because this wasn't a project that you cared deeply about and worked on for weeks, you are just not attuned to the aftermath.

[bliss_eternal]

41. ...J. Temperance--

Yes, it is a valid question, if you think it is.

So go start your own thread and ask it.

The topic of *this* thread was stated in the original post.

Respectfully, I ask that you stay on topic, or kindly ask your question elsewhere. I'm sure many would love to join you in discussing it, just not here... Thanks.

[Codeine]

49. Sorry, we don't have Topic Police here. n/t

[bliss_eternal]

52. Excuse me...?

I have every right to say what I did. If you have an issue with it, state so directly and not in a passive aggressive manner as you have here with your snarky 'topic police' comment.

By the way, none of your business and incredibly rude. We DO have rules about THAT last time I checked. If you have nothing of substance to contribute to this discussion, see your way out of it. Thank you.

[EFerrari]

65. But occasionally, we get respect right.

Welcome to DU, Codeine.

[...of J.Temperance]

58. I've just had to

Respond to sfexpat2000, because they asked me a question and they've always been polite and friendly toward me in other threads...so I answered their question.

[bliss_eternal]

63. Cool--

I appreciate your respectful response to me. I don't want to see this dissolve into what I saw last night, and have my thread locked. So if you want to do more of the other,...

:hi:

Again, thanks for the courtesy. It's appreciated.

[...of J.Temperance]

78. Okay

I'm glad that you understood that I wasn't trying to start a flame thing...there's been far too many flame bait threads over the past two weeks.



:hi:

[EFerrari]

71. And, I appreciate your answer, J. Temperance. I'm sorry

if I took us off topic!

[bliss_eternal]

75. No--you guys are cool--

you have history. LOL! I wasn't aware of that.

As long as you are both enjoying one another's company/conversation--all is good.:D :hi:

Sorry to seem the 'hypervigilant watch-dog' lol. I was enjoying the discussion, too and didn't want to see the thread locked (as so many were last night).

I'm also big on calling people on being poo-poo heads(lol)--about saying unnecessay things to each other. No reason we can't all talk and still be respectful.

[EFerrari]

76. Please don't tell Mr. sfexpat. Omigod, he's subbed now.

My cover is blown.

:)

It is good to just be able to talk without the useless friction, isn't it? Thanks for this thread, bliss_eternal.

[bliss_eternal]

80. LOL! Anytime--

Though admittedly, I did start this for selfish reasons. I was sincerely curious what others thought about musclehead's chances in the future, considering all that's transpired.

(...oh, and I won't tell, I promise!)

[...of J.Temperance]

83. Hey Mr. sfexpat

Doesn't have anything to worry about...if you check mah profile.

:)

[...of J.Temperance]

81. Hey...I'm not sure if I didn't take us off topic

It's okay, I'm the President of The Naturally Confused Society :)

[bliss_eternal]

85. Stop it! LOL! (edited later...)

:hi:
I admire that you guys can talk to each other from opposite sides, with such kindness and respect. It's says a lot about you both.

;)

[EFerrari]

38. We'll have to wait and see, won't we.

Amy Goodman said there is a person executed about every ten days in this country. That shocked the hell out of me.

[EFerrari]

37. Amy Goodman had Angela Davis on. Davis said

thousands, of every age and description.

I think something happened last night. :)

[bliss_eternal]

72. That sounds amazing--

I wish I had seen the vigil and the protesters.

I hope you are right, that something did change last night.

[fooj]

108. You've got that right!

Hasta la Vista, Pendejo! :kick:

I understand there were over 4000 people at the vigil.

Peace.

[...of J.Temperance]

2. Shouldn't we be glad then?

Governor Phil Angelides.

The Tookie decision is the FIRST decision that Arnie Lughead has done that I've ACTUALLY agreed with.

[MrSlayer]

3. Not really since most people were for the execution anyway.

I don't think he scored any points either way. The people that like him still like him and the people who don't, still don't.

[spindrifter]

4. Hey, Cali People,

what was the prison guard union saying about the death penalty for Tookie Williams? Did they put money into any ads/statements? As I understand it, the union was a major, if not the major, campaign contributor for the Terminator.

[EFerrari]

43. I don't know. And that union is one of the most powerful lobbies

in the state.

[mitchtv]

5. I think not.. Most here approve

At least that's what the corporate media tells me. Myself, I am ambivalent. I could live without the DP, but I find it hard to muster any sympathy enough to care.

[DanCa]

7. Has the archdiocese said anything about a pro dp catholic politician

executing a man and still recieving communion? If i lived in ca i would write to the sace bee and other papers and start to raise a fuss over this. If gray davis had put tookie to death the church theorocrats wouldve come after davis with torches and pitch forks.

[bliss_eternal]

15. You know, I haven't heard or seen anything about this

but that doesn't mean they haven't said anything. I try to avoid msm whenever I can. I watched more in the last week, based on monitoring what was going on with this issue.

But you make an excellent suggestion!! Seriously, your idea kicks ass!

[DanCa]

22. Thanks you know I am a neutral on the DP

But this would be an excellent chance to stick it to a repug for not being christian enough for his church for a change.

[bliss_eternal]

34. I agree--

in this sense, it is a great idea!

[hyphenate]

8. I sure hope so

He's alienated his home country, and pretty much the rest of the EU, and almost every single country elsewhere in the world thinks he's the return of the nazi mentality, so yeah--I really do hope this is the last straw.

[marmar]

13. It shocks me that there is so much blase tolerance...

toward the death penalty in this country. No other supposedly advanced Western country has it, and people in those countries are pretty appalled that we do.

[bliss_eternal]

17. marmar--

shocks and surprises me, too. It's disturbing isn't it?

[marmar]

20. Very much so...

:cry:

[bliss_eternal]

35. (((marmar)))

It's going to be ok...

:grouphug:

[hyphenate]

47. What gets me

is that Americans get outraged when other countries punish by cutting off hands or blinding someone, but can't get upset at their own nation killing people without even looking for alternatives.

BTW, I am not totally against the death penalty, only against the flagrant use of it. I have no sympathy for criminals who are caught with the smoking gun and irrefutable proof and evidence of their guilt. I am, however, ashamed at the number of people who have been on death row and who might truly be innocent. And as we already know, that list is pretty much tipping in the direction of black males instead of a truly even balance. I support all resources to help out those who really are innocent. But like the bastards in the 1997 Los Angeles Bank of America robbery, some criminals are worthy of the death penalty.

[EFerrari]

60. I think someone could argue, you'll never have the one

without the other, and that's one reason the death penalty should just go. There are people who are monstrous and who should be kept away from society. But in practice, there will also be innocent people or people who truly change and others that will be killed -- probably more of them than the "monsters" because there are just more of them.

But to go back the the OP's question, it sure sounds to me as if the Grope made a totally political calculation and had one of his dumb@ss speech writer's write a statement that appeals to his base. That would be his racist base because there was a whole paragraph about William's dedication in one of his books that was addressed to black leaders. Ahnold called them "dangerous and violent somethings" -- can't remember the disparaging term he used. Guys like, um, Nelson Mandela.

So, racism is obviously in play here, if the Grope's statement is any measure.

[bliss_eternal]

66. hyphenate--

I know it seems no one can run any special tests (dna, etc.) now that they are available for black (or hispanic) males on death row--because of course they deserve to be there anyway.

It's very troubling, frustrating, and infuriating.

Then you see a guy(of color) with money, all the dna evidence one could have stacked against them, and they walk...

[ET Awful]

109. Apparently on DU, it's not just blase tolerance, but it appears to have

a cheering section.

[bliss_eternal]

16. hyphenate--

I hadn't even thought about that--where he's from originally doesn't have dp, do they? OMG--this may very well be one of the last nails in his coffin.

[hyphenate]

79. There's another article in LBN

(I'm heading to bed now--it's very late for me) that has the info on the EU being pissed off at Ahnold right now. One Austrian town is even taking his name off some bulding as a result. It's an incredible stunt for him to pull that is surely going to crush his political aspirations into dust--at least we can hope.

[AlCzervik]

9. honestly, no. All the polls showed california residents in favor of

his execution. I think for him with whatever base he has left granting clemency would have finished him for good. Personally i'm not for the death penalty and it's not like San Quentin is a a club fed, thats one bad ass joint as my neighbor who works for the doc placing inmates there would say. I don't he's going to run again, i know he said he was but it's official until that paperwork is filed.

[EFerrari]

25. He just pissed off every colorful person in the state

by not even bothering to treat their (our) community leaders with respect. You know, he could have respectfully disagreed. But, noooooooooooooooooo, he had to act like a ham fisted jerk.

There are a lot of us. He's toast.

/typin'

[AlCzervik]

29. his statement was obnoxious and very holier than thou

i think he's a gonner anyhow, good riddance to bad rubbish.

[bliss_eternal]

39. chimpsrsmarter--

His statement WAS obnoxious and holier than thou, wasn't it? He's got a hell of a lot of nerve, too--considering his history. While what he's done may not be offenses he could be jailed or assigned DP for, he's no frickin' saint is he?

[Codeine]

50. Really? Every person of color?

My wife wasn't phased. All the Hispanics I work with think it was a good thing or are neutral on the issue.

Narrow that brush down a bit, please.

[EFerrari]

73. Yo no puedo creer que su esposa le da sus pensamientos

sin bastante cuidado.

:)

[bliss_eternal]

77. I know--

tough to believe, 'huh?

[EFerrari]

86. Hay cosas que NI YO puedo creer.

lol!

[Codeine]

93. Cute.

In fact she does share her thoughts with me quite openly and honestly, as do my friends at work. Simply being a person of color does not mean marching in lockstep with your viewpoint.

[EFerrari]

95. Thank you. I will do my best to remember that!

lol

[Clara T]

10. Arnold is a disturbed cretin

[barb162]

88. hey, where's the Conan photos

[datadiva]

12. I think he just

jumped in to the grave he already dug with his stupid special election. I can't wait to vote the stupid sagging steroid king goodbye. :rofl:

[bliss_eternal]

18. LOL!

Me too, datadiva! :hi:

[Mz Pip]

21. Not really

Death penalty supporters are in the majority here. Anti-death penalty people didn't like Arnold much anyway.

Still it bothered me that he may have made his decision based on some political calculation rather then what he may have truly believed to be the right thing. I know there are people here who call him a Nazi but Austria does not have the death penalty. I don't think any of Europe does. But then I doubt Davis would have granted clemency, either.

This is not something that should be handled case by case. There should be a moratorium on the whole process. Society was safe from the likes of Tookie if he'd been lock up forever.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[bliss_eternal]

28. That's interesting, Mz Pip--

I wondered a few times in the last few days what Davis may have done...

I agree, as a society we were safe with him locked up. If he did make his decision as some sort of political move, he's got a lot to answer for in his heart and soul.

How could he go home to who he's married to, having done what he did? I really don't think Maria supports dp... I could be wrong.

[Silverhair]

53. It is easy to tell what Davis would have done. Look at what he did.

Davis could have commuted Tookie's sentence at any time. He didn't. Does that tell you anything?

[bliss_eternal]

59. Do you have a point?

I saw your other post. I took note of what you said. I thanked you in fact. Why do you need to go back in the conversation and post abrupt and rather clipped responses to things that were said much earlier in this conversation?

If you don't like my thread or what is being said here, feel free not to read it. But I haven't been rude toward you--kindly show me the same courtesy (and others in this thread).

Thanks. :)

[Silverhair]

51. Davis had a chance to, and did not grant clemency.

No clemency is NOT just Arnie's decision alone. How many Democratic governors have also said, "No" to Tookie. Arnie was just the last one in the series.

[bliss_eternal]

54. Good to know--

about Davis. Thanks.

[Cleita]

24. Yes.

And I'm delighted!

[bliss_eternal]

31. LOL, Cleita!

Leave it to you to make me laugh on this thread!
:hi:

[Just Me]

26. A man was making a difference, having a positive impact,....

,...on society by thwarting those thrilled by gang life. The "State" would've been better off executing him before he changed, before he was contributing in a significantly positive way to our people rather than denying him clemency, at this time.

It's almost as if the "state" is saying: punishment for being bad will be delayed until you finally become the potential, positive contributor to our society you always had the power of choosing.

It's just,...fucked up.

I thought we believed in "free will" and in the power of people to change. I believed we rewarded such strength.

Geez. I just feel confused about what this country really represents, anymore. I thought we were,...more civilized and evolved or something.

[bliss_eternal]

30. (((Just Me)))

:hug:

I know. I've struggled with what you're saying as well. I'm sorry, this is awful, feel your feelings.

Understand this though, there is no way someone with your level of heart and compassion could EVER understand about what happened last night. That is a good thing, and you are better because of that fact. A person with a good hear like you, is never going to wrap their head around this--because it goes beyond rationality, decency, etc...

[Just Me]

90. The hybrid of logical/moral edict is beyond "feelings".

We have scientific data PROVING that the DP does NOTHING to thwart violent crime.

Morally and ethically, killing is just plain wrong.

It is the "feeling" and "emotional" weakness of people which most disturbs me,...because the only basis left to support the DP is vengeance. There is no logical or moral/ethical basis behind the DP.

I just don't get it,...don't get how a country which asserts itself as "smart" and morally bound can continue to engage in such emotionally weak barbarianism.

Oh, well. I still love our potential even when we fail to embrace the potential of others.

[bliss_eternal]

104. I agree--

in that I don't get it either.

I've noticed that many that support it that are politically on the right wing, are also vehement Christians. But as far as I'm concerned it goes against the Christian faith, then again I'm no expert on Christianity by any means.

[meisje]

33. NO - Many support the DP including myself

[Silverhair]

42. No, he didn't.

Fact: There is absolutely NOTHING he could do that would make you vote for him.

Fact: More CA residents support the DP than oppose it.

Fact: If he had granted clemency, he would have outraged his base.

Fact: He has Democratic cover. Democratic governors have also refused clemency for Tookie. It has been a bipartisan execution.

[bliss_eternal]

46. Wow--ok.

I asked for opinions and what people thought, but thanks just the same for the 'facts.' :)

[EFerrari]

48. Again, I don't think you're taking into account the damage

El Gran Grope just did to himself with minority voters. The NAACP and other orgs were treated with outrageous disrespect. And so were many church leaders. On balance, net loss for Ahnold. There's a lot more of us than there are Republican fundies -- who don't trust him in the first place because he's a born again republican.

[Silverhair]

57. Wishful thinking.

The people you list were already against him.

[EFerrari]

61. Well, no. He needed a portion of the Latino and Black vote

to be elected. If he was elected.

[bliss_eternal]

62. You supported the dp. We get it...

No need to reiterate. It's very obvious. We can all see it.

Do you have anything else to add about the original topic?

[NaturalHigh]

68. No.

If anything, he strengthened his position with the right. By and large, people who wanted Williams' sentence commuted weren't going to vote for Arnold anyway.

[jmowreader]

70. I don't think it's going to matter one way or the other

The only people for whom the death penalty is a litmus test are on the side that wouldn't support Arnold Schwarzenegger no matter what he did.

There are two kinds of death penalty supporters: liberals and non-liberals. The liberals won't support him because he's a bad governor, and the conservatives won't support him because (1) he's pro-choice, (2) he's married to a Kennedy and (3) the only thing he's ever done well is competitive bodybuilding.

The guy's toast come November.

[EFerrari]

74. From your keyboard to the election gods. Who hopefully

won't be Diebold.

[jmowreader]

96. I figure it like this

There is a window in which you can believably diebold an election. It's somewhere around six percent--just a little over MOE on a pre-election opinion poll. If you try to pull an election ten to fifteen percent, it's gonna look REAL cheesy and you'll probably get caught--especially if you fuck up and overdiebold an election in a state with a Democratic attorney general.

I think Arnold is going to lose by 25 to 30 points. He is that bad. And he's probably going to have negative coattails. The only advantage to diebolding the California governor's race is that if they need to diebold some of the House races, by moving Arnold around a little in some of the close states it will provide cover for the diebolded House candidate. "Arnold lost by 76 percent in Orange County but the Republican congressman won anyway? Oh wow, man!"

[bliss_eternal]

98. Whoa--you really know your Diebold!

Impressive!

You make good points about the musclehead, though. The thing with him is that he HAS pissed off some on the right. Most teachers may be liberal, but that is not always the case with nurses. A good number of the nurses he pissed off probably voted him in--and are not at all happy with all the fighting they have had to do with him.

I'm guessing here, but some of the police officers and firefighters he upset and who have spoken against him, may be republican, despite their opposition to him.

[EFerrari]

100. I think I see what you mean. You're right, they can't overstep.

I wonder though, if owning the media doesn't buffer their booboos? If the day after John Kerry "loses" the media starts pushing the mythical "values vote", that's cover.

It looks very bad for Diebold in CA tonight. We may be lucky enough for them to shoot themselves in both feet. And that would be rare luck, because the Evil Empire has been staging a coup here, beginning with El Gran Grope, through the ousting of our elected DEM Sec of State who decertified Diebold. And the State Dem leadership just let it happen.

We may be luckier than we deserve. I hope so!

[jmowreader]

110. It could buffer it slightly, but not massively

If the Gropenator is running 40 points down the Sunday before the election, and he pulls off a 5-percent win on Tuesday, and NOTHING happened between Sunday and Tuesday to change his standing with the people (like having Ken Lay indicted for felony theft, sending Enron a bill for the $3 billion they overcharged the state's electrical consumers, and signing an executive order banning oil exploration for the first 200 miles from the mean high tide mark), SOMEONE is going to notice. Come on. No secretary of state in his/her right mind is going to certify an election with that kind of a swing.

[barb162]

87. No, it was dug several months back

[bliss_eternal]

97. LOL--

I don't think you are wrong on that, barb!

Good to see you! :hi: Thanks for posting!

[barb162]

106. Friends in CA tell me everyone has been disgusted with him

for a while now. And good to see you too!


:hi:

[Zinfandel]

102. Not a chance, 74% agreed...Man, it was a poll move...Not one from

any kind of decision by Musclehead, from his "heart"...nor from any caring, consideration or reality of the truth.

It's to creep back up in the polls, as he's doing so well, slowly, in a year from now even fence-sitters will vote for him against the planned devestating republican smears, of either of the two boring democrats running, who will be fighting each other, as Arnold will be coasting and just sitting back and smiling...

He's the republicans "Golden boy"...the republicans will pour as much money as needed to keep him in the governors seat, (not to mention the republican owned electronic voting machines that will now be allowed in our state to assure what he needs)...The republicans have big plans for Arnold, the "Celebrity"...He will capture the moderate vote after they smear, distort, and use their media machine, after they get through with the Demo's...Oh the Dem might win 49% after the machines have kicked in...but Arnold will, unfortunately win...just watch!

Arnold is their boy, a true fascist, (in all meaning of the word), he will keep the corporate machine running smoothly!!!

[bliss_eternal]

103. Their Golden Boy's

special election went down in flames, despite the money they put up to support him. That was beautiful to me. LOL! He even trotted out McCain to do commercials for him, which I still don't understand--given the fact that McCain isn't a rep in CA. :shrug: I guess he (mc cain) was the most recognizable repub. that would back him, that some repubs may actually admire/respect.

Despite Musclehead's loss with the special election, I find your assertions intriguing. Those Diebold machines are very troubling to me, and I wish we could do away with them altogether.

I hope you don't mind my saying that I hope your predictions don't come true, lol. But despite that, I appreciate your comments--having a difference of opinion always keeps things interesting on a thread! :hi:

[nolabels]

105. Do you really think a lot of people are going be trusting the machines....

in a couple months if the blatant fraud that company is all about get let out the bag. Them big news producing corporations could own ten times the news outlets they do and word would still get out. They all seem to be damage control going on now, but it doesn't seem to be having much effect. Diebold will die bold, just watch :-)

[EFerrari]

112. Problem is, CA has strong unions and a large pop of

uppity minority types.

He's now pissed BOTH off. Not necessarily about his decisions but about his utter disrespect of these communities and of their spokespeople.

He's toast. He is about as diplomatic as Monkey Boy. And, it will matter. The Thuggery are still trying to analyse what happened. They won't get it until he's tossed.

Good. :)

[Zinfandel]

124. No, they wanted to call off the "special election"...

They knew they couldn't win it...the polls made that clear, because the unions ganged up against him...and rightfully so...But things will indeed change in a year, and now Arnold & the republicans will also now have their electronic voting machines come into play in CA...

Why have the republicans won most election in CA in the past 40 plus years? All two terms fucks... Reagan, Dukmajain, Wilson and Arnold who will be next...

It seems so simplistic to assume because of the polls and the "special election" loss, that Arnold won't rebound...wait and see, when the republican machine will be in full force...It's celebrity Arnold, against a Dem geek, there will be no loyalty for the democrats...most in CA and elsewhere have no idea about ideology...they vote by the smear ads, what's popular, what they hear from their friends and go with the incumbent if they toss all in the air and aren't sure...

Republicans know this well and they'll now be able to place electronic voting machines statically in place to assure it...

As we will be scratching our heads, (again) after voting day...49% will look good and people will say, we almost won (got to try harder "next time" always next time, in the mean time, the republicans retain power), it but it won't change a thing.

Even if voter fraud is proven, no election has ever ber been overturned. and this one won't be.

It's great incentive for the republicans to continue their fraud.

[Zinfandel]

125. No, they wanted to call off the "special election"...

They knew they couldn't win it...the unions ganged up against him...and rightfully so...but now the Arnold & the republicans will have their electronic voting machines come into play in CA...

Why has republicans won every election in CA in the past 40 plus years? All two terms... Reagan, Dukmajen, Wilson and Arnold, who will be next...

It seems so simplistic to assume because of the polls and the "special election" that Arnold won't rebound...wait and see when the republican machine will be in full force...It's celebrity Arnold, against a Dem geek, there will be no loyalty for the democrats...most in CA and elsewhere have no idea about ideology...they vote by the smear ads, what's popular, what they hear from their friends and go with the incumbent if they toss all in the air and aren't sure...

Republicans know this, well and they'll now be able to place electronic voting machines statically in place to assure...

As we will be scratching our heads, (again) after voting day...49% will look good and people will say, we almost won (got to try harder "next time" always next time, in the mean time, the republicans retain power), it but it won't change a thing.

Even if voter fraud is proven, no election has ever ber been overturned. and this one won't be.

It's great incentive for the republicans to continue their fraud.

[EFerrari]

130. Wait -- what about Jerry Brown and Grey Davis?

Diebold is imploding, too.

I dunno, finally. This is a big place. But as I said to the last staffer at McPhearson's office that I talked to, "This is not OHIO, and believe me, we will not become Ohio any time soon. We are among the largest economies in the world and up with this sh!t we will not put." (And I've already apologized to OH for that, but there was an audible pause at the other end of the phone line.)

There's a very strong and smart election reform movement here, thanks to DUers like GuvWorld and Einsteinia. If these criminals think we will roll over, they're dead wrong.

[lynne]

107. If anything, Arnold solidified his base -

- as I understand polls showed that the majority of Californians and Americans felt the execution should not be stayed. Arnie was just a bit player in this entire drama. It began decades before he took office, Tookie had his day before his peers, they found him guilty and every court and judge in the land denied his final appeals and requests for stays.

Arnold was only one of many who could have put a stop to Tookie's execution.

[No Exit]

113. Does it count if I WISH he had dug his grave?

Or if I WISH he were going to take a flying leap into it, like, soon?

[bliss_eternal]

120. LOL! Yes--

I think that counts! :hi:

[No Exit]

134. Good! Start diggin', Ahnold!

[donheld]

114. When he dug his grave is ill-relevant

When he crawls in it is what I'm waiting for.

[bliss_eternal]

122. LOL!

That will be a day worth celebrating! :)

[Czolgosz]

116. The execution cost him a few votes. Who opposed Schwarzenegger but changed

his or her mind yesterday? No one. Who supported Schwarzenegger but changed his or her mind yesterday? Few people, but some (religious right who adamantly oppose capital punishment; some (especially blacks but not only blacks) who feel capital punishment is racist; etc.).

It was a net loss, but granting clemency would have also been a net loss because people react negatively to the death penalty (i.e., few people support candidates based on this issue alone but they may oppose candidates on this issue alone).

[Beam Me Up]

119. He is a fascist. He was put in office BY fascists. NO SURPISE he'd let a

black man die at any givern opportunity. That is the kind of thing fascists are really good at. They like to get rid of anyone or anything they perceive as even remotely threatening their superiority. If they can do it legally, so much the better but they're not big on following laws if they can get away with breaking them or bending them to their profit. Being in government affords them the opportunity to change laws to work even further in their favor.

Schwarzenegger does not care what we think of him any more than Bush cares. They laugh at the stupidity of the common man and woman, letting them get placed in positions of high government authority. They think it is a joke. Bush so much as said so: "It's only a piece of paper."

[bliss_eternal]

121. Good points--

He is a fascist, and he probably doesn't care what anyone thinks about what happened.

Interesting that he made this choice, though after losing so big on all of his measures. I was kind of surprised he went this way. I thought he might try to go a different way to appeal to all those that now oppose him. But I guess in the grand scheme of things, a leopard can't change his spots.

[rucky]

123. Bloodthirsty culture:

strong reactions on both sides, but certainly no converts. see any DU Tookie thread for more details on that observation.

[leesa]

126. No. The progressives already hate him and the Republicans love killing.

[SmokingJacket]

128. Yes, I think he blew his political career.

I think he could have gained some support if he'd acted like a human.

Oh, well. Now the Terminator REALLY IS a Terminator.

[bliss_eternal]

132. I thought the same--

apparently his huge loss didn't change him as much as some of us thought it did... Or at least as much as HE SAID it did. Should know better than to listen to those guys anyway--Republicans lie!

[Initech]

129. Ahnuld aint getting reelected, I'll tell you that!

And if the GOP thinks they can woo back the fundie crowd with Mel Gibson, fuck 'em. I'll be fleeing the state to KY if that happens!

[bliss_eternal]

133. Oh no--

please don't go! We need all the progressive power we can get--we'd miss you too much! :cry:

[mondo joe]

131. I don't think it will hurt him in the least.

Whatever grave he's in will be over his other choices - not this one.