In Case Ya Wanna See What LAT Readers Think Re: Tookie !!!

[WillyT]

Can't watch the local news here. The ghoulish play by play makes me cringe.

Link to LAT messageboard on Tookie: http://newsblogs.latimes.com/tookie/2005/12/message_board.html

Something there for everyone.

Wonder what preparations the LAPD are making tonight. Hopefully this doesn't blow up.

:shrug:

[stepnw1f]

1. I Think It Will

I seriously think is will erupt into something really nasty. I hope not...

[FreedomAngel82]

20. I hope not either but it wouldn't surprise me

[spindrifter]

2. I've heard speculation

that there would be violence if the Terminator--I mean Governator--didn't grant clemency. I would have thought it would have happened as soon as the announcement was made. I hope people are taking Tookie's nonviolent message to heart.

[mermaid]

3. Tookie's Nonviolent Message?

Too fucking late for that, Tookie! You delivered your message 25 years ago, and that message has become the monster known as The Crips! May you burn in hell after you burn in the chair, you murdering bastard!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nini]

17. I'm going to have to remember this reply

:thumbsup:


It does fit the reaction of many here.

[stillcool]

21. the edge is closer than I thought...

scary stuff:scared:

[nini]

28. No kidding

I've seen comments here the last few days that are shocking.


sad really

[mermaid]

48. Jesus Christ...You Gotta Be Kidding Me!!

You're scared of ME?? and you aren't scared of a known murderer and gang meber and walking piece of shit like tookie?? WTF?

[Moochy]

61. Lockjaw

Not afraid per se, we don't want lockjaw.

[WillyT]

5. Wow... How Old Testament Of You...

:wtf:

[beyurslf]

6. Are you being serious? He'll get an injection anyway. And he says he is

a Christian. I believe the Bible says that god will forgive him and he will be in heaven today with Jesus.

[mermaid]

9. Yeah??

And BUSH says he's a Christian, too. Your point?

[mermaid]

12. He Will Be In Heaven Today With Jesus??

I sincerely doubt that, but, even if he is...that's better than hiom being here. on this earth, with ME! He's a waste of oxygen and a waste of skin.

That murdering bastard founded the deadliest street gang ever. The Crips have gone nationwide, terrorizing neighborhoods where once we felt safe. But no more...thanks to gangs. 10,000 murders have been attributed to The Crips...the gang Tookie founded. That's enough blood on his hands, he deserves no mercy.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. So when did you see the evidence?

:shrug: Did you sit on the jury? Did you follow the case? Who died and made you the Creator? Why should some people be freed after their crimes (including murder) and not others? What about forgiveness for someone who deserves it?

[mermaid]

46. What Makes You Think

Tookie deserves it? He deserves nothing but death. He showed no mercy to his victims. He has never shown remose for creating the Crips, nor for the violence done in the Crip name.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JanusAscending]

7. Shame on YOU!!!

Now wouldn't your face be RED if shortly after they MURDER a man who could "possibly be innocent" they come up with proof that he indeed was? I hope then that the words that you speak now, will be vomited up as TOXIC BILE !!! if this were to happen.. You should be made to watch the actual sentence being carried out. By the way, he won't be "burned in the chair" he will get a lethal injection. Just goes to show the level of your intelligence. GOD, I never thought I'd have to say this to another "Democrat"??? It's usually the idiot "repukes" that I save my venting for!!!:nuke:

[mermaid]

10. No...SHAME ON TOOKIE!!

And shame on you for defending him!! What about his VICTIMS?!!?

I'm sorry, but I come down on the side of the victims. You wanna come down on the side of the perpetrator, perhaps YOU are in the wrong political party!

How fucking DARE you attack MY liberal credentials because I think a murdering asshole who founded the most violent street gang in history should DIE!!??

Death's too goddamn good for him. But it'll have to suffice.

[JanusAscending]

15. For one thing, most Liberals I know, don't think the way you do!

Bush thinks the way you do! If you've lost a loved one to gang violence, you have my sincere sympathy. But if revenge is your only motivation, it is you who will suffer if it turns out this man is innocent! What's wrong with him living his life out in prison, with no hope of parole? He can't hurt anyone out here from in there!! If you feel so strongly about the death penalty, how do you reconcile yourself with the fact that CHARLES MANSON, an animal that is KNOWN to have done even viler things, is still alive and well in prison after all these years???? If anyone "deserves" the death penalty, why not him? "cause he's not BLACK?

[mermaid]

42. No

Because he got lucky. He was sentenced to death. When the SCOTUS outlawed DP, he got his sentence commuted. They cannot, by law re-instate it.

Manson shoulda died a long time ago.

I don't give a shit if Tookie is black, white, brown, or purple with green polka fucking dots...he deserves to die.

His race is of no importance to me. His actions are. He deserves death.

[Zomby Woof]

23. The most violent street gang in history...

Is based at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[mermaid]

44. Hyperbole

I don't like Bush and Co, either...but, they are not going around being gangbangers! They are not going around shooting people up just for the hell of it. That's what GANGS do. They shoot people up for the hell of it, and because they think it's funny.

[Zomby Woof]

64. These gangstas start illegal invasions of countries

30,000 dead, as admitted by the Gangbanger-In-Chief himself.

And yes, he thinks it's funny. Remember his joke about looking for WMD's under a table?

[Moochy]

86. Oh the irony

there should be an irony alert on this one.

[G_j]

104. They are not going around shooting people up?

are talking about the same Bush?

you have now demonstrated a complete disconnect with reality

[FreedomAngel82]

24. So now you have blood on your hands too

[Moochy]

90. From reading of posts on the subject

I think mermaid would like any gangmembers blood on his hands, from the state or otherwise.

[mark414]

43. and he's spent the last 20 years of his life

trying to keep kids like him OUT of the gang he founded

[mermaid]

45. That Does NOT Erase what He Did...Or The Fact That He Created A Monster

known as The Crips. He deserves to DIE!!

[mark414]

51. where do you get that logic?

that because he created something, which is, by the way, a completely unrecognized and non-legal entity, that he should hold responsibility for the actions of every single person ever involved with that group?

[mermaid]

53. Without Him, The Crips Never Would Have Been. n/t

[mark414]

58. and another one would've taken its place

you've got a lot of hate in that heart of yours

[FreedomAngel82]

62. So what about Carla Fay Tucker?

Remember her? Jerry Falwell and his like went to go and defend her because she claimed to be "born-again" and was white. She killed her husband (and I think children?) with a pick ax and all these religious people came out and wanted to spare her but Bush killed her. The death peanlty is nothing more than legalized murder. How do you know he did it and deserved to die? Both Williams and Tucker were born-again's but why did they rush to defend Tucker but not Williams?

[mermaid]

68. You Didn't See ME Rush To Defend Tucker.

I don't give a shit WHAT those other people did.

As far as I can tell, Tucker got what she deserved, too.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. So you justify killing someone else?

So what if a guy went out and killed another guy because he thought this person was involved in something that offended/hurt him but the guy turned out to be innocent and all was based on rumors?

[mermaid]

88. Lemme Get This Straight...

your scenario is...
Person A goes out and commits an act of vigilante justice by killing Person B because he thought that Person B was involved in something that hurt/offended him...and it later turned out Person B was innocent.

If that is your scenario...then Person A should be put to death for taking the law into his own hands. Too bad about Person B. My sympathies are with him, and Person A's execution by the state is fitting justice for Person B.

In Tookie's case...you are basically giving YOUR sympathies to Person A from your above scenario, if you support clemency for him...and you are saying "fuck Person B...Person B doesn't deserve justice."

at least, that is how I see it.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

8. "burn in the chair" ?

Maybe you should wipe some of that drool off your chin and read up on the subject.

I question the stability and humanity of someone who exhibits such unrestrained and gleeful arousal in anticipation of the death of another human being.

I just remembered why I stayed the fuck away from this place.

[mermaid]

11. Yeah?

Have someone YOU love gunned down in cold blood by a gang member, and then see how you feel about it.

Why no care for Tookie's VICTIMS???

[babylonsister]

13. mermaid, I agree if it's warranted.

I really care about the victims and less about this guy. If he's definitively guilty, sayonara.
I also think people have been offed w/o enough facts or competent lawyers. Hey, I live in TX!

[mermaid]

14. Thank you

I used to live in Texas. Moved back home to PA in March.

In tookie's case...the very fact that he founded The Crips is enough for me. He needs to die.

Because of him, our streets are not safe anymore, our neighborhoods are not safe anymore...I cannot enjoy a moonlight walk without fear of being collateral damage...and it's all thanks to gangs!

If I had my way, gang membership ALONE would be a capital offense.

[beam me up scottie]

16. You think all gang members should be executed by the state.

How fucking white of you.

[mermaid]

34. Yes

And yes, I'm white. And how dare you bring the race card in? I said ALL GANG MEMBERS!! And I mean the white ones, too.

I did not say all BLACK gang members. I said ALL GANG MEMBERS.

Or are you implying that all gang members are non-white?

Guess what? I'm just as much in favor of offing WHITE gang members as non-white gang members.

[beam me up scottie]

54. Let's kill all of the poor black, latino, asian & white kids in the hood.

After all, they CHOOSE to be in a gang, right?

[mermaid]

56. If They Choose To Join A Gang, Yes.

They can say no.

[beam me up scottie]

66. Your ignorance on the subject is staggering.

You know NOTHING about gangs and yet you advocate killing these kids anyway.

Why are you here again?

Do you honestly believe exterminating poor people is a liberal value?

[mermaid]

71. No. I Think It Is SELF-PRESERVATION!!!

If it comes down to them or me, I'd just as soon it was THEM.

[beam me up scottie]

84. Call it what it is: Extermination. Genocide. Ethnic cleansing.

Don't be shy now, you've come this far.

[Moochy]

87. Yeah help us understand your

final solution to the Gang problems mermaid?

[mermaid]

89. Simple.

I don't want to risk taking a bullet in the head that was intended for someone else, just because I happen to feel like taking a midnight stroll around my goddamn town.

Self-preservation. kill them before they kill me. what's so wrong with that?

Are you saying YOU would rather die, than see Tookie die?

[beam me up scottie]

94. You need help.

Seriously.

Anyone that advocates ethnic cleansing so that they can "feel safe" needs to be locked up and medicated before they take their brand of "justice" into their own hands.

[mermaid]

96. You Suggest I Would?

And where's your motherfucking Ph.D.? Until you produce one, you better not psychoanalyze me! You are now on Ignore.

[Moochy]

101. Buddy to talk about ignores

Is to speak into the darkness. I think you've made it onto plenty of people's ignores today, and I think it's priceless that you placed him on ignore.

priceless

[Moochy]

98. Sure

Sure you rabid incoherent rambler, that's what I'm saying.
"Are you saying YOU would rather die, than see Tookie die?"

You are a real Internet Tough Guy, my avatar, Chauncy is really ascared of you.

Don't you have a cake to bake? It's almost 2 hours before you can dance around in morbid dance of joy.

[beam me up scottie]

99. okay.

I didn't want to laugh but you made me.

[mark414]

69. sometimes they can't say no

a friend of mine was in a gang when he was a teenager, and though he's technically still a member, he doesn't participate or even associate with any other gang members...but his cousin was killed by another gang for refusing to join. and that's not uncommon.

[mermaid]

72. Then Go To The Cops.

[mark414]

76. wow

i bet you've never even MET someone in a situation like this...your ignorance is unbelievable

[mermaid]

81. What?

You think the cops wouldn't ACT on information? You think the cops don't want to break the ass of these gangs?!?

You turn in gang members. You get them off the street. You get your neighborhood back.

[Moochy]

103. Gee It's like space invaders or pac man! Now I get it

They are like the space monsters in that spacey invaders game, and we merely shoot them, or outsource the shooting to cops.

[beam me up scottie]

80. Yes, go to the LAPD, they're sure to be ever so helpful.

They've got such a good track record.

As do most of the urban police forces in this country.

[fishwax]

109. well why don't YOU go to the cops

I mean, if it's that easy, why should you have to live in fear?

But, of course, it's not that easy.

[FreedomAngel82]

67. So you don't believe people can change and

try to change their lifes etc?

[mermaid]

73. In Some Cases...No Amount Of Change Can Atone For Their Past Life Of Crime

[beam me up scottie]

74. Are you asking me?

I'm the one who took this rabid armchair executioner wanna-be to task to begin with.

[GirlinContempt]

33. "If I had my way, gang membership ALONE would be a capital offense."

holy shit are you for real?

[mermaid]

36. Bet Your Ass I'm For Real!!

How else do we break the backs of gangs that have taken over and terrorized our neighborhoods, and made it impossible for us to enjoy our towns, cities, and neighborhoods without fear?

We let them know that merely BELONGING to a gang is sufficient for you to be put to death. Maybe they will think twice before joining one, then.

[GirlinContempt]

39. Holy. Shit.

You just have no basis in reality do you?

[mermaid]

41. No. You Are Too Lenient.

Have someone you love taken from you by gangs. Have your neighborhood terorized to the point you can no longer enjoy a moonlight walk on the streets of your own town without fearing for your life...and then talk to me, okay?

These gangs need to be BROKEN. NOW!!

And if killing them is the only way to break them, so be it.

[beam me up scottie]

47. Read a history book sometime.

And let me know when you start to see the similarities between your reasoning and that of the lynch mobs of the south.

Or the LAPD.

Or the other rich white people who think that gangs are just too icky and should be exterminated.


Until then, I'm done with you.


Anyone who cannot see that that those who desire to "clean up the neighborhood" would also include transsexuals in with the gang members is a lost cause.

[mermaid]

52. How So??

I'm not going around KILLING anyone. How dare you make such a comparison? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU?!!?

[beam me up scottie]

57. You advocate killing poor kids in gangs.

What?

You mean you'd have somebody else pull the switch?

Kind of cowardly, isn't it?

After all, if you think they should be executed, you should have no qualms about doing the deed yourself, should you?

[mermaid]

60. What's The Pay Like?

I'd be happy to pull the switch myself! On walking pieces of shit...bet your ass!

[Moochy]

63. scum?

you have become what you hate!

[beam me up scottie]

70. He's worse.

Liberals know better.

[fishwax]

49. what a great plan

i wonder how long it would be before anti-war protestors would be "gangs" and subject to execution. Or striking workers. Or anyone else the powers that be consider uncomfortable to have around.

but the potential for abuse aside, i find the death penalty for gang "membership" to be a rather sick suggestion.

[mermaid]

55. Why?

kill them before they kill us. Seems perfectly logical to me.

Gang members go around all day popping people because they think it is funny. They need to be killed before they kill anyone else.

People who kill others, who have done nothing wrong...and in cold blood, deserve death.

See how FUNNY they think it is when THEY get "popped."

[fishwax]

83. why? well,

I don't buy the death penalty anyway, though i can understand how some people see it as justice in response to violent crimes. however, i can't see it as justice for crimes of association. "People who kill others, who have done nothing wrong...and in cold blood, deserve death." even if I accept that premise (which i don't) it still doesn't justify killing all gang members, since not all gang members kill others. I just can't fathom that kind of blood lust.

[Moochy]

85. SOME CAPSLOCK TO REBUT YOUR LOGIC n/t

[fishwax]

91. well that's it, i know when i've been bested

:rofl:

[mermaid]

92. Oh, Yes They Do

All gang members kill other people...and they all laugh about it and think it's funny. They are sick, depraved motherfuckers.

[FreedomAngel82]

95. You don't know that, do you?

What about self defense hon? What about soliders killing Iraqi's?? Should they be put on the death penalty because they killed an innocent person? Nah...they'll be glorified for killing them.

[beam me up scottie]

97. "All gang members kill other people." ???

"and they all laugh about it and think it's funny. They are sick, depraved motherfuckers."

THEY'RE sick, depraved motherfuckers ?

[fishwax]

106. no they don't

but fine, humoring another irrational logical leap ... if we accept that everyone who has ever been in a gang has killed someone (and then laughed about because they are a sick depraved motherfucker), then what's the point of executing people for gang membership? You could already try, convict and (in many states) execute them for the murder that they must have committed. But you don't want to kill them for crimes they've committed or for people they've harmed, you want to kill anyone who has ever been a member, whether they've killed anyone or not. That's weird.

[Moochy]

111. ANGER MAKE HULK STRONG NOT SMART! nt

[FreedomAngel82]

65. How cold-hearted of you

So you don't believe people can change? Wow you need to seriously look at your heart.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. You still have blood on your hands

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Speaking of his victims

according to Rhandi this afternoon she told how one of his victims wives forgave him, so why not you? From all he's wrote and told of his experience(s) he might keep some kids off the streets and out of gangs.

[nini]

31. Ok.. I've got to jump in here

Have you had someone gunned down by a gang member?

You act as if you speak from experience.


Let me tell you my experience with a gang murder:

One of my son's closest friends was shot in the head by gang members on Crenshaw Blvd after the car he was in got a flat tire.

The car unfortunately was red.. a bad color in the gang war in some areas.

This young man was not a gang member that lost his life. He had a promising career in college football when his life was taken.

My son was devasted, the football team was devastated. His poor mother was broken - I never saw such grief in a human being. It was heartbreaking and such a senseless loss of life. I saw the hell all of the people that loved that young man go through to this day.

I care very much for the victims in this case. If the bastard that pulled the trigger is ever caught I wouldn't want him executed. It makes no sense to take a life for a life. I want him to pay for taking a life.. a life sentence would work. Sit in a cell the rest of his life thinking of why he's there and what he did.

The fucking insanity I see you posting that no one sympathizes with the victims is bullshit. Unless you have truly experienced the loss of a loved one's life at the hand of a gang member then I suggest your refrain from acting like you have. If you have then you should really get some help with your grief and letting go of the hate inside of you. You are letting the murderers continue to destroy lives long after the death of the one they took from this world.

[mermaid]

40. Jump In, Be My Guest

And in answer to your question...YES. And more than one.
No, not my flesh and blood. But when you are like me...you tend to have more non-blood-related family than blood-related.

Most of my blood-relatives tossed me out like yesterdays newspaper, because they could not handle my being a transsexual. Therefore...I have made what I DEFINE as a family, from others like me. And they are family to me in a way my own flesh and blood never could be. They are every bit family to me as if they were my own blood...and more, because, unlike my blood...THEY never turned their backs on me.

As you may well imagine, life as a transgender person can be extremely difficult. More than one of my family has thus ended up on the street...and ended up losing their life to gang violence.

You're right, I have a hell of a lot of anger burning inside me. AND I WANT MY ANGER!! I NEED MY ANGER!!

Sometimes, anger is all that keeps ME going.

you act as if all anger is a bad thing. Well, it isn't. Anger is a defense mechanism, a reaction to having been, in some way, violated. Anger keeps you wary, on your toes...so that you are not violated AGAIN. So anger, in it's way, is good. As long as your anger does not drive you to take the law into your own hands, what's the problem?

I'm DAMNED if I will ever forgive the murderous sons-of-bitches that have taken members of my family from me.

And don;t you DARE tell me my family is any less legitimate than someone else's, just because I'm not related to most of mine by blood. There are some ties that bind other than blood...and, as my own blood family proved, blood is not always thicker than water.

I have exactly two members of my blood family left. The rest have all turned their backs on me. so most of what I consider my family nowadays is not of blood relation. But it doesn't make them any less FAMILY.

[nini]

50. YOU don't have to forgive.. that's why WE don't sit on juries as victims

You can hold the grudge until your deathbed.. go ahead if it makes you feel better. However, as a society we cannot allow this tit for tat bullshit you obviously carry because of whatever has been done to you in your life. If our society is to carry your view we might as well all carry guns and just take out those who have harmed us.

Your post here proves you have displaced anger and issues in your life. Seeing Tookie die tonight or any of those other murderers will not make any of that the least bit better.








btw: How DARE YOU assume I would say I would question those who you hold dear as your family. I'd love to know what I said that would think you could get all pissy over that with me.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. So you obviously don't care

if someone is innocent or not. There was this man that was talked about on the local news here and he was accused twenty years ago of raping a girl. It was now known that he was innocent and this girl lied about it. So what if that happened here? What if he was blamed because of who he was both color and relations to the gang? Everyone is always so quick to judge people because of gangs. People change as they get older and have more life experiences or sometimes even because of love. How dare you use your anger to justify your means of hatered. I'm sorry people have been mean to you but think about how you're treating other people. You have no right to claim someone is guilty or innocent if you don't know all the facts. Did you follow the case all those years ago when he was committed?

[mermaid]

82. Well You Know What??

In the case you mention...I think the girl who lied ought to get 20 years in jail to make up for the twenty years SHE took of that man's life and freedom.

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. The chair? Isn't it lethal injection? What's it to you if he rots in

prison or "burns in hell"? He won't ever get out of prison so he won't ever be able to kill again. And by all accounts he was trying to make right for his past with regard to starting the Crips. Perhaps he was rehabilitated?

[beam me up scottie]

27. This is what it is to people like him:

Just a modern day version of a lynch mob.

Give it another ten years and executions will be on pay per view.

[mermaid]

38. Every Crip Murder Splashes More Blood On Tookie's Hands

'nuff said.

[FreedomAngel82]

78. You're a murder too

[Dances with Cats]

18. I hope it BLOWS!

n/t

[nini]

30. Why? do we really need more violence in this world?

I really don't see what good it will do.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

29. Whatever plans they're making

They're decidedly short-handed on the National Guard side of things.

[nini]

32. That has also crossed my mind

Great.. thanks W.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

35. So we're looking at the possibility

of a man-made Katrina, and a man-made disaster in the response.

God, I hope it doesn't happen. Pity they killed Dr. King. He might be handy about now.

:banghead:

[nini]

37. I don't think it'll get that bad

there will be some bad stuff going down... but not to the point where it will be totally out of control.

Yes, the lack of Dr. King these days will be evident more than ever. :(

[mitchum]

79. Those who are predicting rioting are actually the ones who are racist...

but, of course, they will never see that in themselves

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

102. Said the person who wants to execute all gang members.

Because they're all killers.

Depraved ones.

And he doesn't feel safe with them in the world.

Got it.

[Moochy]

105. What me Ignore ?

mermaid took his dose of rabid-racist-hatemonger-be-gone

(just testing the ignore)

[beam me up scottie]

108. This is DU, isn't it?

I haven't been here in a while and I think maybe I stumbled onto Free Republic by accident...

[Zomby Woof]

107. I care deeply for the victims and their families

I do them no service by succumbing to the same kind of bloodlust and hatred which led to their violent and brutal ends. I do not want to be like their killer by gleefully embracing murder and hate.

Clemency for Williams does not equal disregard for the victims. This kind of false dichotomy is all too common with benighted minds and hearts.

[beam me up scottie]

110. You are too kind.

Thanks for putting it in a post that won't get deleted.

[rasputin1952]

112. Locking

this thread has become nothing more than a flamefest.

Thank you for your understanding.