Death Penalty OPPONENTS: What are you going to DO tomorrow...

[jackstraw45]

to actually CHANGE THE LAWS of this country?

I just heard Jesse Jackson compare the "redemption" of Stanley Tookie Williams to Nelson Mandela. I almost gagged. Someone will have to remind me when Nelson Mandela used a shotgun to shoot someone in the back while robbing them...

I am "on the fence" as to whether I support capital punishment in limited circumstances. Part of me says it should be banned as a practice. Then I think of how I'd feel if someone killed my wife or child - how would I feel then?
Yet when opponents try to get their point across by elevating the stature of some really evil people, I think it hurts their cause.

Laws must be changed BEFORE the date of a 25 year march to execution....days like today change NO ONE's opinion, in my opinion.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I will pray

Pray that the families find peace and not reopening of wounds;

Pray that LA stays calm;

Pray that Mr. Williams find justice in death;

Pray that we find a way to keep the peace that doesn't involve more killing.

[mitchum]

2. Maybe express great remorse over the Nuremberg executions?

[MuseRider]

3. The question to me is

how would you feel after someone who killed your wife or child was executed? Would it really help you? It does not stop the grief, it does not bring them back and it does not make the wrong right. Those are the questions that turned me into someone who does not support it at all, ever.

We have managed to stop it here in Kansas for a while anyway. Hopefully we can keep it this way but it takes constant work to do it.

[Parche]

9. question

Justice is not revenge

They should not be in that situation in the first place

You kill someone, you forfeit your own life, simple as that

[MuseRider]

12. I disagree.

[Terran1212]

4. Revenge is a lazy form of grief

From "The Interpreter"

[malaise]

5. I'll give thanks that where I live

the state hasn't killed anyone in decades. I will never support the death penalty.

[Toots]

6. If one child is changed because of Tookie if one less gang member is

created because of him, if a life is saved then good has been done. I would never wish for him to re-enter society but he could be a valuable influence upon young blacks or anyone in America through his experiences and teachings. Why end that?

[terrya]

7. A majority of the American people wants the death penalty.

Fuck them. They're stupid and wromg. It is NOT a deterrent. It's immoral and wrong.

Yeah...if someone killed a loved one. Yeah, I'd be pissed. I'd be trembling with rage.

And...is killing that murderer going to bring my loved one back? No.

So, after that person was killed...then what? We've had someone killed. And...murders will continue in this country. And the fucking death penalty won't change a goddamned thing.

[zanne]

8. Why did it take Tookie to get people riled up about the death penalty?

We've been executing people left and right for a long time, but there's been an ominous silence on the part of Dems and Progressives. I don't understand why Tookie is the catalyst this time, but maybe it will open our eyes to every other execution that takes place in this country every year. Revenge is big in certain circles, like the Mafia and the Taliban, but it's destructive to society in general and it's not a valid reason to take someone's life.

[MuseRider]

11. I remember

when Timothy McVeigh was executed the media interviewed one of the witnesses who had lost family and had been looking forward to feeling better after the execution. She was stunned that it did not make her feel better, she did not get the closure she thought it would give her. Funny how that is isn't it? One other person who said much the same thing eventually got around to saying that he thought it was because it was so peaceful. He thought he might have felt better if it had been brutal and not so easy. :eyes:

I am totally with you on this.

[Silverhair]

18. It will solve one possibility. Tookie won't kill again.

There have been numerous cases of murderers having gotten out of prison by escape, parole, etc., and have killed again.

Remember Willie Horton?

How about Jack Abbott? To my knowledge Mailer never apologized for his role in helping set that murderer free. Why did he like Abbot? Simple, Abbot showed talent as a writer. Mailer said that culture was worth some risk.

Ted Bundy escaped twice, and went on to murder more. He even developed a gathering of groupie who maintained his innocence up until Bundy started trying to trade information on where the bodies of his victims were for a stay of execution.

Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, member of Charlie Mason's cult, and who would have killed President Ford if she had been even marginally competent with a .45 auto pistol, managed to escape from prison in 1987. She was quickly recaptured.

And a few weeks ago there were some escapes from death row. Fortunately, they were recaptured.

The DP will make sure that Tookie does not kill again.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. How would I feel?

Then I think of how I'd feel if someone killed my wife or child - how would I feel then?

I would want the person to suffer for the rest of his life, just like I would be with the loss of my family. Death is simply an easy cop out. How does one suffer when one isn't living any longer? That is paying for the crime they committed, but rather a free ride.

[sendero]

16. While I really can't land on..

... an opinion either way about whether it is "right" to carry out this sentence, I can wonder out loud just how much "tookie" is suffering.

He's still alive 25 years after the crimes. A person like him is probably pretty acclimated to the prison life and probably has about as much freedom as millions of destitute people right here in the good old USA, and a lot more support systems.

And to suffer mentally, you have to have a conscience. Maybe he does, maybe he does not, I've read enough rationizations from murderers to draw the conclusion that many of them do not.

If you can believe that Bush has no conscience, how hard is it to believe tookie doesn't either?

In short, I'll never buy the "death row inmates are suffering so badly" argument. Not for tookie, and not for anyone convicted with reasonable surety of that sort of crime.

[foreigncorrespondent]

17. I never said...

...I believed Tookie has a conscience. What I said was, I would want him to suffer had his victims been my family. And death is not paying for the crime.

[Thtwudbeme]

13. Haven't you figured out yet

that there ISN'T a whole lot "we" can do personally to change laws?

I hate posts like this...despise them actually. Do you think we are represented in DC right now? Grow the hell up. The best we can do right now is hope that people don't act like complete barbaric fuckwits...and DU sure isn't proving that that has anything to do with voting Dem, or Repub...or posting here or at FR.

Jesus Fucking Christ on rollerblades.

[MuseRider]

14. You can still be

effective in your state though. We managed to stop it.

[Texasgal]

15. I am not DP opponent.

I hope it's okay to post in this thread.

I want to give a little different perspective.

Here is what I hope.

By putting Stanly Williams to death, perhaps we have saved someone, One lost soul who idolized him or maybe two souls...or many souls... Don't commit a violent crime and end up like Mr. Williams.

That's what I hope comes out of this.

I am not celebrating nor am I happy. This is a very sad day for everyone involved. Justice is not pretty unfortunately.