Hasta la vista, Tookie...

[edbermac]

I absolutely GUARANTEE someone will run that as a headline...

[gpandas]

he is,after all, the terminator n/t

[gpandas]

1. he is,after all, the terminator n/t

[mermaid]

2. While I Have No Love Of Ahhh-nold, OR The Death Penalty In General...

I have even less love for a guy like Tookie, who started the Crips...a gang now responsible for over 10,000 murders! This is a guy who has never acknowledged, admitted, or apologized for the four killings for which he is personally on death row....and how many people did he lead into thuggery and gangsta-dude-ism by forming the Crips in the first place? what about the victims of The Crips?

Sorry, if anyone deserves it in this country, Tookie does. Burn, baby, burn is all I got to say on the subject of Tookie. And, for that matter, anyone else who is associated with, or a member of...any gang.

[Squatch]

3. Since 1973, 122 death row inmates have been found innocent.

And "all you have to say" is "burn, baby, burn?"

:puke:

[mermaid]

4. Tookie IS NO FUCKING INNOCENT!!

I'm generally opposed to the death penalty, but not in Tookie's case. To him, I say...burn, baby, burn!

what about the 10,000 victims of the Crips...the gang Tookie founded? Might not most of them be alive today, if not for Tookie?

THEY got death sentences, without the benefit of a judge or a jury. So FUCK TOOKIE. He needs to burn!

TOOKIE *** TOOKIE *** TOOKIE *** TOOKIE *** TOOKIE *** TOOKIE

[Squatch]

5. You are willing to execute a human being even though the

system by which he will be executed is EXPLICITLY FLAWED.

The death penalty is the ultimate denial of human rights, an endeavor our government has no business being involved in.

[mermaid]

8. Tookie Is NO HUMAN BEING!!!

As far as I am concerned, no one who belongs to...or founds a gang responsible for over 10,000 murders is a human anymore. they no longer deserve to share the same planet I do...they are a waste of oxygen and a waste of skin.

No gang member ought to be allowed to live. And no one who founds a gagng ought to be allowed to live, either. They didn't allow THEIR victims to live, why the fuck should THEY get to live?

Sorry....horseshit...I have no sympathy, whatsoever for Tookie, that worthless piece of shit ought fry! Can I please pull the switch myself? I'd love to toast that son of a bitch.

[CatWoman]

9. and MERMAID IS NO WIZARD OF OZ!!!

[Squatch]

12. And you can assure me that 100% of all death row inmates

deserve to be there?

"I'd love to toast that son of a bitch." Thank God our country isn't run by a bunch of blood-thirsty executioners...oh, wait, it is.

[mermaid]

31. Of Course Not!!!

And that is why I generally oppose the death penalty. But you give me one fucking good reason why Tookie...who is guilty as hell...deserves to live!

[Squatch]

37. I just gave you 122 reasons.

[mermaid]

50. No, You Haven't Given Me ONE!! Tookie Is Guilty As Sin, And YOU & I Both

know it!!

[Squatch]

53. But I am not willing to let a man go to his death when the system

by which he will be executed has been demonstrated to be faulty. I am not willing to send a man to his death when there is even the slightest inkling that the state COULD BE WRONG.

Besides, it's goddamned barbaric to seek an eye for an eye.

[mermaid]

58. In This Case, The State Is Not Wrong!!

Tookie even ADMITTED the killings for which he is on death row. How much more did you want?

[Squatch]

61. False.

Williams has maintained his innocence in the murder of the 4 victims of 2 robberies.

However he admits to a life of gang violence and to co-founding the Crips youth gang.

[brentspeak]

104. Tookie Williams says that he's innocent?

In that case, we should just let him out!

:sarcasm:

[bosspepper1]

95. TRUE!!!!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

97. Of course he is.

That doesn't make it any more "right" to kill him.

[Bluebear]

18. "I'd love to toast that son of a bitch."

:crazy:

[CatWoman]

20. but would it be a HUGH toast??!!!!!!!11111

[Bluebear]

22. Seriesly, we could have a lottary to see who pull's the switch!

:crazy:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

100. Amen to that, bluebear.

:scared:

[Shakespeare]

21. "No gang member should be allowed to live."

Gee, while you're at it, can you just give us a whole list of everybody you think shouldn't be allowed to live? It's obvious that your standards apply to those who haven't commtted homicide, so I'm curious to see who else isn't worthy of life.

[mermaid]

35. GANGS Use Brute Force And Intimidation On Innocent Weaker People

Society needs to be protected from predators like that. You wanna live among predators, good for you. I don't.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. You didn't answer the question. (nt)

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. Please DO keep posting like that.

I like the smell of pizza in the afternoon.

The poster asked about other groups of people. You didn't make clear that the ONLY group whose members have to be exterminated for no other reason than belonging to them is street gangs. Is that so?

So, do you still think I'm illiterate?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shakespeare]

89. You are incredibly hostile.

Which, I suppose, is fitting for somebody so quick to hand out death sentences, even to those who didn't a life themselves.

[Shakespeare]

87. No, you didn't answer the question.

But congratulations for the personal attack on the other poster.

I asked you to give us a list of everybody you think shouldn't be allowed to live. Simple question, really.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissB]

59. Oddly enough, another DUer

today said that they would not only execute murderers, but rapists and pedophiles.

I promptly put them on iggy. I cannot stand it when people cozy up to Taliban-style justice.

[Puglover]

I hit the same ignore button

if I want to read shit like that I'll run over to FR...IMHO that person needs some anger managment and therapy badly.

[NYC Liberal]

24. YEAH! People have been killed so the "right" thing is to KILL MORE!

Wow, what a fucking brilliant strategy you have. Or not. You are supporting the VERY SAME THING that you claim to want to punish him for. You support murder of people that you yourself have deemed "not human." It is not about guilt or innocence; it is about whether you think it's OK to MURDER certain people.

Isn't it funny how we condemn Saudi Arabia for executing people yet people right here suport the same thing?

"An eye for an eye make the whole world blind."

murderers, but those who SUPPORT murder of ANYONE.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

113. Amen. nt

[Punkingal]

30. Would that make you feel good, really?

What a great attitude to have. Your world will be so much better tommorrow when he's gone, will it? The fact of the matter is, if he were white, he would have gotten clemency. And once again, African-Americans have reason to know their value in this sick society we live in. (I am a white southerner with a conscience, and I am literally sick to my stomach.)

[mermaid]

41. How DARE You??

His race is of no importance to me. If he were white, I'd still say the fucker deserves to die.

In fact...lemme give you an example of a white guy I'd LOVE to see shot down...EMINEM!!

That bastard glorifies and promotes misogyny and homophobia...and casues people to act out against women and gays, there is blood on Eminem's hands. Too bad inspiring others to commit crimes is not, itself, punishable by death, or there'd be a white guyu I was in favor of executing!

Go, MOBY!!!!

[mermaid]

45. How DARE You??

His race is of no importance to me. If he were white, I'd still say the fucker deserves to die.

In fact...lemme give you an example of a white guy I'd LOVE to see shot down...EMINEM!!

That bastard glorifies and promotes misogyny and homophobia...and casues people to act out against women and gays, there is blood on Eminem's hands. Too bad inspiring others to commit crimes is not, itself, punishable by death, or there'd be a white guyu I was in favor of executing!

Go, MOBY!!!!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

63. I thought they were supposed to KILL someone first?

Or are you advocating just checking membership and then killing them? No wait, why am I asking? That's EXACTLY what you're advocating.

You are a scary person.

[mermaid]

70. Glad To See I Made Myself Clear

That is EXACTLY what I meant to say, exactly what I said, and I stand by it. Gnag membership ITSELF...ought to be a capital offense. Bet your ass that is what I'm advocating. Kill them before they kill innocents! Damn right.

Seems to me the only people's rights most of you don't care about are the VICTIMS.

When the fuck did it happen in this country that only the victims have no rights anymore? Why the hell should criminals be accorded mercy and justice that they never accorded to their victims? Why should criminals...animals like them...have any rights whatsoever?

I'd like to see the gang members die in the way that they have killed their victims, instead of the relatively pain-free method of lethal injection. If the gang member killed someone by shooting them in the head, and leving them to die, then that is how the gang member ought to be put to death. A bullet in the head.

And, yes, I still say that GANG MEMBERSHIP ITSELF ought to be...in and of itself...a capital offense.

The only way to get rid of gangs and make our streets safe for everyone else is to come down HARD on these fuckers.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. You must love how they do things in Saudi Arabia. (nt)

[mermaid]

80. Hey, If You Wanna Live Among Parasites, Good For You.

I don't. So perhaps you'd like to get sent to another planet, with Tookie. Let's see which one of you lives longer.

Betcha Tookie'd put a gun to your head and blow it to smithereens.

Maybe you and all the gang members can link arms and sing Kum-Bah-Yah? I don't think so!!

You wanna be the only rabbit living in with a buncha wolves, you be my guest. but don't ask me to.

I've no mercy for wolves.

[tjdee]

93. Wow.

I'd venture to say you don't know very much about gang membership and what life is like for people in the neighborhoods that produce them.

I'd hope we would be more about stopping gang activity by *preventing* the ongoing cycles and sense of desperation that pervade the mindset of some of those folks.

Other than just gunning them down. For gunning other people down.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

102. "Kill them before they kill innocents."

I cannot reply to that. Excuse me while I go find my chamberpot.

:puke::puke:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

98. No, he's a fish.

:sarcasm:

Well, then what is he?

[Bluebear]

6. How can you be 'generally' opposed to the DP?

Who decides where the line is drawn, what is heinous enough?

[Bridget Burke]

7. You can't be GENERALLY opposed to the death penalty.

You support it. Living in Texas, where millionaire murders walk free, I've opposed the death penalty most of my life.

Do your cutesy icons represent the anguish the Crips have caused in the Poconos?

[Bluebear]

13. gmta

[mermaid]

14. The Fuck I Can't!! How DARE You Tell ME What I Can Think?!?!

I fucking hate gangs! ALL gangs!! They victimize weaker people, and they are thugs, and they deserve to die. All of them.

You wanna share a planet with them...fine, we'll blast all of you into space, and you can sing Kum-Bah-Yah together. Far as I am concerned, any gang member is a waste of skin and a waste of oxygen...is a parasite that should be destroyed.

[Squatch]

19. And you enjoy the thought of "toasting" people.

Your message has been recieved, loud and clear.

[mermaid]

25. GANG MEMBERS ARE NOT PEOPLE - GET IT THOUGH YOUR HEAD!!!

They gave up all claims to humanity when they acted in inhumane ways.

They had no mercy for their VICTIMS, why the fuck should we have any for them??

Maybe you never had someone YOU love gunned down by a motherfucking GANG...or you would feel as I do.

[Squatch]

39. Because having mercy is the hallmark of being a PROGRESSIVE

and LIBERAL.

[Bluebear]

48. Indeed. nt

[MrMonk]

49. Sez who?

What can you offer to support this "bright line" disqualification of people with whom you disagree?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Squatch]

54. You need to check your goddamned attitude.

I have not gone on a personal attack with you so you can just can that shit.

I just stated what my opinion of a liberal and progressive are, which does not give you license to initiate personal attacks.

[mermaid]

74. You Need To Check YOUR Goddamned Attitude!!

Like hell you didn't make a personal attack on me! As far as I am concerned, attacking my liberal credentials IS a personal attack.

You have NO RIGHT to question My liberal credentials, just because I don't agree with you one hundred percent!

You attacked my liberal credentials, you pissed me the fuck off. Hence the attitude.

You need to not attack my liberal credentials, just because I have a different opinion on this subject.

You got a faceful of my attitude, because you attacked my liberal credetials, and I won't stand for that.

[noiretextatique]

68. how do you know?

tookie williams claims he's innocent of the murders he was convicted for, and no one besides him really KNOWS whether he is in fact guilty or not, that includes you and all the others claiming you know with certainty that he is guilty. all i and the rest of you know is that a jury found him guilty, and as even you should know, that doesn't always mean a person is guilty. given the recent spate of DNA exonerations of people on death row, i wonder if all of you so certain of williams' guilt were just as certain of the guilt of others.
be careful not to become what you hate.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

105. A-fucking-men. nt

[WritingIsMyReligion]

103. You call yourself a progressive nad yet don;t believe in mercy??

*scratches head*

[Puglover]

106. I call BULLSHIT

now you're inferring that YOU have had someone YOU loved "gunned down by a motherfucking GANG" Why now? Why not at the beginning of this miserable thread before you started calling people names and generally acting like pissed off 9 year old? I don't buy it.

[NYC Liberal]

33. So you support what those murderers support?

AKA, killing people you have deemed "deserve" to die?

[MrMonk]

46. There is a difference

between killing someone who has murdered a number of people simply for being in the way, and killing such a murderer after due process and after presenting multiple opportunities for his defense.

[mattclearing]

47. The funny thing is that if you substituted "Republicans" for "gangs"

and "gang members," I wonder if anyone would care. :D

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[High Plains]

67. You really ought to do something about that bile build-up.

[Puglover]

73. Honest to God

I think you are arguing with a 14 year old boy. Gawd....

[WritingIsMyReligion]

107. Hey... Don't Bash the 14-year-olds.

We're not all psycho...

:D

[mermaid]

77. Why Was MY Repsonse Deleted - But What I Responded To Wasn't??

What's up with that?? Post Number 10 ought to be deleted, too!

That was what I responded to. Why was MY RESPONSE, inappropriate as it was, to post number 10....why was THAT deleted, but post number 10 is allowed to stand? I think post number 10 is equally in violation of the rules!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

81. Because you have gone off the deep end, that's why.

And bitching about moderator decisions is another big no-no here.

[mermaid]

85. You Are Officially On Ignore!

I told you I would put up with exactly ZERO more bullshit from you and I meant it. Goodbye.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

108. Oh, woo-hoo.

Now we can get all defensive now.

I've seen "bitches" in my high school argue better than this. "Dumb bitches," too.

[Moochy]

16. Amen

Sewer is right, those clever flipping off emoticons sum it up.

[Don Claybrook]

11. You're not opposed to the death penalty

If you support the death penalty in some cases, you support the death penalty.

This is very much like the large numbers of people who say they support free speech, up until the time they run into speech that they don't like. Then all bets are off.

Do you support speech that pisses you off to no end? If yes, then you support free speech.
Are you opposed to the DP no matter how heinous the crime or criminal? If no, then you support the death penalty.

And to each their own, but do try to be honest with yourself about it.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. "I do not have any mercy for people who fail to show mercy to others!"

Ahem.....Oh never mind!

[Bluebear]

29. snap! nt

[converted_democrat]

62. Damn! Great minds think alike!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the irony.

[Puglover]

76. OMG....what a great catch!

:rofl:

I'm sure the irony is lost on this poster....

[WritingIsMyReligion]

109. Amen to that. nt

[Don Claybrook]

32. You're going to need to stop yourself now

Read for understanding next time. I know you can do it.

You said,



I support free speech, even from Freepers. But gang members, who victimize weaker, innocent people...deserve no fucking mercy.

Sorry, I do not have any mercy for people who fail to show mercy to others!

And if that makes me a bad person, in your eyes, then so be it. Fuck you, too.

====================

Great. You support free speech. You most certainly are not anti-DP, however, as evidenced by your words. Do you have an understanding of what "to each their own" actually means? Did I imply this makes you a bad person. Nope. Just incorrect when it comes to your self-identification as anti-DP.

By the way, your little temper tantrum doesn't really elevate you anywhere. I know that uncomfortable truths can make a person lash out, but in 10 minutes, I'll have forgotten about your existence. You'll still have to live with yourself. You can continue cursing anonymous strangers, or you can take a look at yourself. If you're good with the death penalty, then you're good with it. Just don't say you're opposed to it when it's clear you're not.

In my eyes, you're just another poster on what used to be a progressive politics board. So yes, fuck me too.

Have a great day, sporto.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Wow. Just wow. (nt)

[karlrschneider]

27. Apply for the job of Execution Czar...then you can decide which cases

qualify and which ones don't.

[HEyHEY]

99. You're batshit crazy aren't you?

[MrMonk]

34. "10,000 murders"

That's one heck of a lot. Do you have some supporting documentation?

[Obamanaut]

55. Here's a start

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/13389043.htm

<snip>
So far this year, gang-related homicides in the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department are up more than 30 percent over last year's level, to 210 killings. At the same time, the number of deputies assigned to gang enforcement has shrunk from nearly 190 three years ago to 150 today, according to a report in Monday's Los Angeles Times
<more>


Note that the 'crips' and 'bloods' are the two most prevalent gangs in the US, and they are spread throughout the states, including branches in all the prisons. It's not too much of a leap then, to put a number approaching 10k since tookie started, if we had 210 in LA County this year.

This cite was the very first one I clicked on when I googled. Google is your friend.

BTW - I agree with Mermaid. I don't generally support the DP either, but in this (tookie) case - snuff him. And I deliberately did not capitalize the gang names or tookie's. They don't deserve it.

[Bluebear]

56. So by him starting the gang pyramid, he is guilty for all those murders?

Even though he has abhorred what he did? To you there is no redemption but to "snuff" him 25 years after the fact? Just to clarify.

[Bluebear]

75. 'I don't generally support the DP either, but in this case - snuff him'

Holy cannoli.

[sundog]

69. no one deserves to die because of another person's judgment

right, mermaid?

[mermaid]

28. For Those Who Would Condemn Me For My Views....

Maybe YOU never had someone YOU LOVE murdered by a motherfucking GANG...or you would feel as I do.

So, before you condemn me, consider that people I love have been victims of these fucking gangs...and the people I love were shown no mercy. Why the fuck should I show the GANG MEMBERS...the MURDERERS...any mercy?

I say FUCK YOU AND DIE, TOOKIE!!!

[Bridget Burke]

36. So--you think every gang member should die?

Not just Tookie?

If you are prepared to condemn others, prepare to be condemned.

[mermaid]

90. Yes. I DO Think Every Gang Member Should Die

How ELSE do you finally break the backs of the gangs that have taken over and terrorized our neighborhoods...who have made our streets, our towns, and our cities unsafe for the decent people?

Kill em all and let God sort 'em out.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

112. Sickening.

:puke:

[Don Claybrook]

38. It's not your opinion that bothers me

I mean, I think you are being kind of distasteful, but no matter.

It's your complete lack of rationality. Several people have pointed out a gigantic fallacy in your statements, and your response has been to curse up a blue streak.

This is General Discussion, you know. If you can't stand the heat...

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mermaid]

82. Again...Have someone YOU Love Murdered By A Gang

and see just how much rationality YOU have on the subject!!

I never claimed that my position was rational. It's purely emotional. I know that. But it doesn't change my feelings one bit.

Is it wrong to feel, now?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. And then there's this:

http://www.willsworld.com/~mvfhr

Found by googling "murder victim families against death penalty" (without quotes). Many more interesting links there.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

111. Agreed. nt

[Crazy Guggenheim]

42. I worked with someone many years ago who had a nephew and uncle

killed within TWO weeks of each other by stray bullets in LA.

[Mad_Dem_X]

43. I understand your point, mermaid

Unless a person has experienced this firsthand, you don't know how you're going to feel about it. I know that if a person I loved was murdered by a gang member, I would want the gang member locked up, and yes, probably executed. I consider myself liberal, but I support the d.p. in rare cases. This is one of them. He murdered innocent people, and innocent store owner and an innocent family. And why? People who have no regard for others' lives and no conscience should not be allowed to have three squares and a roof over their head and visitation with their loved ones while their victim lies in a cold grave.

Sorry, I've gone on a bit. But I'm just trying to say that I think I understand your thoughts and feelings on this issue.

[Bridget Burke]

52. But you managed to express yourself without obscenities....

And without abusing other DU'ers.

Of course, the problem many see with "three squares and a roof over their head" is their sacred tax dollars being spent on those whom they have judged unworthy of life.

I think that some people may deserve to be locked away for the rest of their lives. But I've seen too many millionaire who murdered walk away free to support the death penalty.

You either support the Death Penalty or you don't.

[Mad_Dem_X]

44. I understand your point, mermaid

Unless a person has experienced this firsthand, you don't know how you're going to feel about it. I know that if a person I loved was murdered by a gang member, I would want the gang member locked up, and yes, probably executed. I consider myself liberal, but I support the d.p. in rare cases. This is one of them. He murdered innocent people, and innocent store owner and an innocent family. And why? People who have no regard for others' lives and no conscience should not be allowed to have three squares and a roof over their head and visitation with their loved ones while their victim lies in a cold grave.

Sorry, I've gone on a bit. But I'm just trying to say that I think I understand your thoughts and feelings on this issue.

[mermaid]

57. Thank You!!

You said it far better than I could.

I'll admit to a certin emotional irrationality on this particular subject. Nevertheless, it does not change my opinion. Tookie deserves to burn. And I stand by that statement.

[noiretextatique]

64. in your post, you aren't calling for the death of all gangs members

and declaring them sub-human, as is the other poster. while i understand the emotion, the rantings of this poster are not rational or fair.

[noiretextatique]

60. i know people who were murdered

i grew up in the same area tookie williams did. i saw the gangs created, i saw people die, including friends and schoolmates. none of that has made me into something WORSE than many gang members. how is your call for the death any gang member different than a gang leader telling members to go and indiscrimately kill someone? clue: it's not. should a kid who joins a neighborhood gang for protection and never hurts anyone...should that kid die too? a lot of people cause misery in this world, bush being one of them,, but unfortunately, you can't just go out an execute all of them.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. Many defenders of the DP are reasonable, civilized people.

You, on the other hand...

[High Plains]

71. Because you're a better person than they are?

Oh, guess not. Nevermind.

[converted_democrat]

84. I'm not going to condemn you, but your reasoning skills are not sound.

You stated up thread, and I quote- "I do not have any mercy for people who fail to show mercy to others!" Think about that statement long and hard. You are in danger of becoming what you profess to hate.

[mermaid]

86. I See Nothing Wrong With That Statement

Why should I show any mercy towards someone who failed to show mercy to others?

Tookie killed, in cold blood, and without mercy. Now you are asking me to show mercy to this thug, this heartless son of a bitch...when he didn't show his VICTIMS mercy?

Horse-shit.

[converted_democrat]

92. Do you even understand what you have written? Do you not see the irony

in that statement? If you don't, you're really missing "something." It's the irony....

"I do not have any mercy for people who fail to show mercy to others!"

According to your statement you should not be shown mercy, because you are unwilling to show mercy. Get it now?

edit-to make clearer

on second edit- You're condemning a person for not showing mercy, while not showing any yourself.

[laylah]

94. Mermaid

I don't know what raw nerve this whole thing has hit for you but may I offer :hug: That done, I am opposed to the DP. As for even becoming a gang member making one eligible for the DP, I work with youngsters who have ties with gangs. Their homelife is shit, their lives are shit, they usually come from a single parent (mom) househole, are embroiled in poverty, etc., and are just looking to belong. I AM NOT, in any fashion, defending actions, as I am not defending Tookie's actions (if, IN FACT, he did commit them), I am just saying to generalize with such a broad brush...

Again, :hug: I am so sorry for whatever horrors this has brought up for you.

Jenn

[converted_democrat]

96. posted to wrong spot..

[WritingIsMyReligion]

110. Because you should be a decent human being.

Or you're no better than the gang members you so vehemently oppose.

[WindRavenX]

101. reading this thread confirms that America is a quickly...

...becoming a moral cesspool.

[Moderator]

114. Locking

Flamebait