Is it really against the law to be a communist? Was it during the 50s?

[question everything]

We saw the wonderful "Good Night and Good Luck" and throughout the whole movie I could not help but thinking how relevant the story is. Bullying anyone who does not follow the party line. Wearing patriotism on one's lapel - but not the uniforms, of course.

Networks are concerned about going against the bullies though, I think that Paley showed more courage than many bosses to day. It was his network and he was concerned about advertisers but, I don't think, about shareholders, or about golf buddies in high places.

I felt for poor Annie Mae Moss (I think) who was trembling before McCarthy and who, I think, even lost her job.

And all the time I thought: who the hell does McCarthy thinks he is, to bully people like that? And for people to commit suicide.

And I wonder whether anyone actually said: yes, I am a communist and proud of it. What's is it for you? That is, unless it was a crime which is what I am asking.

I don't know if there are still the Hearst newspapers; I think that Faux News is the rightful heir. Oh, and the WSJ Editors for driving Vince Foster to his suicide.

[Loonman]

1. Nope

Just foolish.

[ET Awful]

2. It's not against the law, but it is against military regulations :P

You can't get into the military if you've ever been a communist, at least not if you admit it.

[bowens43]

4. More motivation for being a Communist!!

[NorthELiberal]

34. Motivation?......

The poster seems to be making connections that are somewhat superficial........ maybe I am wrong....... Vince Foster committed sucide because he was a Communist? News to me.

[question everything]

35. No, Foster committed suicide because the WSJ was after him

(and I don't even remember about what.. travelgate?)

because, as he said, in D.C. ruining people was a sport (or something like that). In the movie (I don't want to spoil it to anyone, though it was obvious) one of the character committed suicide after being dragged constantly in the mud. I think that others committed suicide when they were blacklisted.

[AndyTiedye]

13. Even If They Drafted You?

Somehow, I don't think saying you were a commie would have gotten you out of the draft.

[ET Awful]

17. Nope, but the ability to hold forth on the works of Marx and Engels

may very wall have gotten you inducted, THEN incarcerated :P

[question everything]

19. This could have been an easy way out during Vietnam

but then, I suppose, one would have to live with the "stigma" of being a communist, probably being locked out of good jobs, or even government contract.

[ET Awful]

20. Well, during Vietnam, no excuse was accepted at face value

Other than medical exemptions, they'd pretty much take you no matter what kind of heinous truths you could tell about yourself . . . unless of course you'd been arrested for littering :P

[MountainLaurel]

29. Causes problems with security clearances as well

As of four years ago, clearance interviews still asked whether the person seeking the clearance has had involvement with the Communist Party.

[bowens43]

3. No , it isn't against the law

and it never has been.

[catmother]

5. well back in the 50s with McCarthy i would have thought that it

was against the law. i wonder what would happen if i told people that i was a communist (today)? i'm not -- but i wonder what the reaction would be.

[Warpy]

6. No, but communists were simply presumed to be

Soviet spies, much the way O'Reilly presumes all crack whores are lesbians (his latest howler) or right wing dimwits all assume every Democrat is on welfare or in jail.

Conservatives just aint real bright.

[MrMonk]

9. "all crack whores are lesbians"

No, Bill, they're just telling you that so you'll go away.

[mattclearing]

14. Nice one.

:D

[asjr]

7. The McCarthy Era was a blot on our government. It proved

that it takes only one person to flood our nation with hatred. How he lasted as long as he did still concerns me. The same blot is now on our country under another name. The Patriot Act is something McCarthy would have embraced and kissed. There will always be another McCarthy--in 10 years, 15 years, who knows. We will always have to fight it. As Yogi says it is De ja vu all over again. It is strange, but true, that the most evil person lives among us.

[lastliberalintexas]

32. That lets far too many people off the hook

McCarthy was simply the most public face for the Red Scare/Witch Hunts/HUAAC. Far too many Americans either participated in or openly supported the America First'ers, and even more stayed silent and allowed them to do what they were doing. It wasn't just *one person* who flooded our nation with hatred- just as today, it is due more to the groupthink/mob mentality of so many in our country.

[question everything]

36. How right you are

I think that it is human nature to always look for someone who is worse than us, someone to look down, to know that whatever our situations are, it could be worse.

Xenophobia was always the easiest way to go. German and Irish and Jews and Italians and now Mexicans and Chinese - especially for young white men with too much testosterone. Find someone that is different - real or perceived - and label him and harass him and make him a non-entity. And, of course, blacks and homosexuals. Always. In this country, so far, at worse you end up in "labor camp" at best - unable to make a living doing what you do best.

In other countries, of course, being different and being stripped of being part of the human race leads to death camps.

[Tamyrlin79]

8. no, not if this is still a free country.

If it is, then you can subscribe to whatever political philosophy you want to and join any political party you please.

The whole idea of persecuting a political party is anathema to me.

[DBoon]

10. No, but you could kiss off getting any sort of job

Communists found themselves unemployable quickly. Even sympathetic employers could not face down the pressure.

You'd also end up being harassed by your neighbors, your kids would get beaten at school, etc.

But aside from that, it wasn't illegal.

[roguevalley]

11. it was worth your ass to be a communist. Remember when it was

worse than it is now to be HIV or gay? You could be blackmailed and driven out of your work.
The 'old days' weren't always fun.

[question everything]

22. And there was Roy Cohn - one of the worst harasser on the McCarthy

committee, who ended up dying of.... AIDS.

One would think that this, alone, should send a message. One can always finds himself outside the "mainstream" depends on how "mainstream" is defined.

[Cleita]

12. I remember that the Communist Party was outlawed during

the cold war with Communist Russia in the forties and fifties or at least I was led to believe this. (I was a kid at the time and tended to accept what I was told at face value.) If the law changed, it was done very quietly because I don't remember reading anything about it. Maybe it's still on the books if there was in fact a law.

[mcscajun]

15. It was never against the law, but there were plenty of people who

would have LIKED it to be.

[patcox2]

18. I am pretty sure it was, actually

Until overturned by the courts. In addition, I am certain, because I read them, provisions punishing members, I believe you could not get social security, for example.

[mcscajun]

21. You may be thinking of the Smith Act of 1940

which made it a criminal offense for anyone to "knowingly or wilfully advocate, abet, advise, or teach the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing the Government of the United States or of any State by force or violence, or for anyone to organize any association which teaches, advises, or encourages such an overthrow, or for anyone to become a member of or to affiliate with any such association." It also required all non-citizen adult residents to register with the government.

The Smith Act was extensively used to persecute and prosecute members of left-leaning organizations, particularly Socialists and Communists. The USSC threw out many convictions under the act as unconstitutional, yet the Smith Act remains a law today.

You probably won't be able to get a security clearance as a member of the Communist Party, but I've never heard or read of anyone denied Social Security because of membership.

[question everything]

23. I don't know that communists in this country ever dreamed about

over throwing the government by force.

And then, of course we have the neo-Nazis and other militant groups on the right who probably do dream about it, at least, as much as Communists used to but was this act ever applied to them?

What about the Klan?

[patcox2]

26. Fundamental tenet of communism is revolution

Its an underlying premise of communism that capitalism inevitably leads to violent revolution, that historically violent revolution is the only means of progress and that it will happen, not that it ought to or it would be nice if it did.

So you might be a little off to think communists never hoped or supported the idea of revolution.

We were close, here in the US, more than once.

The biggest holiday in international communism is Mayday, May 1, remember the missiles and tanks parading in front of the Kremlin? Know what that holiday commemorates? The Haymarket massacre, a labor revolt in Chicago, USA, in the 1890s.

[NorthELiberal]

33. "So you might be a little off to think communists never hoped......

or supported the idea of revolution."


They are off....... there is an awful amount of one sideness in this this thread, unbelievable..... It's always the anti-communist who is the boogeyman...... If you read a great deal of Communist literature much of it does call for worldwide revolution and quite a few Communists have advocated for the defeat of US and Western troops thoughout the world (Vietnam prime example). The Mccarthy era was bad and Mccarthy went too far....... what people forget is that at time with Communist Revolutions that spread through Russia, China, swallowed Eastern Europe, and were beginning in Asia, South America and Africa, there was a real fear that it could finally come here.

[question everything]

38. I have always found it hard to understand the fear of communism here

This nation has been a superpower certainly since WWII. It has a vast area that cannot just be taken over. This nation is composed of immigrants who came here looking for the good life, to work hard and to be rewarded.

Unions never wanted to topple the government; union never wanted to replace the capitalistic system - that gave them good stable jobs - with any socialist one.

Frankly, I think that most of the communists in this country were writers and philosophers who, frankly, had time on their hands to consider the inequality in capitalism and the equality promised by communism and socialism.

I have stated on these pages many times before: as bad as the economy may be, as bad as unemployment and underemployment may be, there will never be a revolution in this country. In Europe - our best model for revolution - workers were faced with the class system of the royal family and the aristocrats, the land owners, etc. The only was for them to enjoy the fruit of the land was to topple that social class system.

Here many still believe in the "American Dream:" that one can start from a lowly level - shining shoes - and climb to start one's own business and become a millionaire.

We know that this dream no longer exists. Still, while most of us are angry when we read about the compensation of CEOs - 500 times the average salary - and want to reduce this amount, to give it to the worker - many dream about someday be that CEO with all the millions.

As for spreading of Communism in Asia and Africa - it was easy to understand. These were former colonies and just got their independent. The colonizers just left without building adequate system of government. In many cases their natural resources were robbed by the colonizers or by foreign companies. Promoting socialism in poor nations is the best way to start. This way the mindset of every citizen is that "we are in this together." We all have to work hard to make it going and we will all have the same salary, or land, or whatever.

This is something that no one in any administration ever bothered to stop and to think. The problem was that, again, human nature being what it is, there were corrupt presidents and prime minsters and "strong men" who robbed their own country while living their people poor and hungry and sick.

I did not start this thread to promote Communism. I was just appalled, and I think most of us still are - that people can be harassed and bullied and lose their jobs for thinking. For doing absolutely nothing, only thinking including sympathizing with communism.

[NorthELiberal]

39. My response was not directed directly at you,

............. it was simply a comment on the overall tone of this thread and others like it. Irregardless of whether this nation was a superpower or not it may have still been vulnerable. Communists do not always come to power through direct takeover or through a majority of the population........ Bolsheviks in Russia were a small part of the population before they came to power. Subversion, not just a direct assault is often a component of Communist movements, hence the fear. That may be sound like paranoia, but you have to put yourselves in the shoes of people who lived at that time. Yes Mccarthy went to far and may have went overboard in persecuting perceived Communists without proof, I think there were, if I remember about 200 people on his hit list, but by the time Mccarthy starting doing so Stalin had already massacred millions in the USSR, took over Eastern Europe, stole atom bomb secrets, blockaded Berlin, etc, at the same time China had gone Communist and the Korean war was fought. It is not just a matter of whether Communists could actually take over America, intent is just as important. When you say Communists here were just philosophers or writers, what were they philosophizing about? How to bring about a "dictatorship of the proletariat" (marx's own words)? Most of the Communist work I read is openly advocating revolution......... So while Communists plot and plan the rest of us who don't agree are simply to roll over and let them take power? What if I think dividing the world up into the bourgeouise and the proletariat is simply to simplistic to govern America by? Especially when the standard of living for the American worker was rising at the time, not declining the way Marx predicted.


As for unions, I don't equate unions with Communism, unions were beginning to form in America long before Marx published his work. Unions are reformist in nature and realize America's strength lies in it's liberal Democracy. Communists are revolutionary and seek an overthrow.

[question everything]

37. I know May Day. I did not realize it commemorated

an event in the U.S. May Day used to observed across the globe, not only in the Soviet Union and its allies, but also in many European countries.

[rman]

41. They didn't - but the government needs a boogieman to keep folks in line.

"in line" as in: divided and conquered.

It's a lie that comes from the same place as "liberals want to take away your guns, christmas, and probably your child".

[Cleita]

24. Is the Smith Act still in force?

All those criminal offenses you mentioned could apply to the Republicans today.

[mcscajun]

27. Yes, it is still on the books.

Just waiting...

[patcox2]

25. Yup, thats it

Its a tenet of communism that violent revolution is an essential component of the historical process, and the inevitable result of class and exploitation, so I would assume that the Smith Act was targeted at communists.

Its like outlawing belief in transusbtantiation, and claiming you are not targeting catholics.

[mcscajun]

16. Another film to see about those times: "Scandalize My Name"

this film covers the impact of McCarthyism and anti-Communist hysteria on the Black artists/actors of the period. Quite illuminating, but far too short; I wanted to know much, much more.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258949/combined

I just saw it yesterday for the first time, on Starz InBlack.
Future airdates/times:
http://www.starz.com/appmanager/seg/s?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=movie_detail&vid=1305327&eid=-1§ion=SCHEDULE

[noonwitch]

28. There were a few who stood up to McCarthy & Company

Coleman Young-told off the HUAC committee, who were investigating his union activity. "You must mistake me for a stool pigeon" when asked to name communists in the unions. "The word is negro, not niggra" to a southern legislator. Coleman also told him if it wasn't for the restrictions on blacks voting in the south, he wouldn't be holding his office.

Katharine Hepburn refused to cooperate, also, as did many other people, both famous and obscure. I use those two examples because of the opposite nature of their economic status at the time. KH came from a wealthy, East Coast family, and her own career had been up and down at that point. She had a lot to lose.

Coleman, on the other hand, was from a poor southern backround and had nothing to lose when he told the facists off. In both cases, the individuals were brave, however. Coleman was just funnier.

[question everything]

30. Thank you. It would be great if these examples were taught in civic

classes.

In the 90s, after the fall of the Soviet Union, we thought that we were done with a national search for a boogie man, for a scapegoat that could justify shifting the national attention from domestic issues. This is why "it's the economy, stupid" was such a successful slogan.

The Republicans of today should thank Al Qaeda for giving them a new enemy that can justify the evisceration of domestic program that could, well, prevent people from dreaming about communism or socialism where everyone is equal. Where, yes, society does see it as its business to make sure that each member is adequately clothes, fed, schooled, and medically cared for.

[lastliberalintexas]

31. You can be discriminated against by your employer

for being a Communist, but I don't know of any law which actually makes it illegal to be one. Just a few like the Title VII provision which make it rather unpleasant.

[Nevernose]

40. It is in NV, for teachers & some public employees

I don't think they bother with it anymore, if they ever did, so I guess no one has bothered to argue the constituionality of it.