Alan Patten...pick up the remains of Alan's nineteen-year-old son(pic)

[underpants]

Alan Patten (C) and his fiancee Diane Kerr pick up the remains of Alan's nineteen-year-old son US Marine Lt. Cpl Andrew Patten, who was killed in Fallujah, at O'Hare airport. Iraqis vote this week in a watershed election for a parliament to steer the war-torn country towards full sovereignty nearly three years after the 2003 US-led invasion(AFP/Getty Images/Scott Olson)

[acmejack]

1. I was so enraged by this picture, I sent it to every vet I know.

All of the Republicons thought it was OK. Interestingly, all the WWII vets thought it was wrong.

[underpants]

4. I am ASSUMING that they are having a private ceremony

and this may be the way that it is done regularly (note the Marine in dress greens) but it looks very odd.

[alphafemale]

2. A Forklift?!

They're treating these people's loved ones like a pallet of groceries?

:wtf:

[HeeBGBz]

9. Nice pallbearing machine

That pisses me off to no end.

[underpants]

10. Read post #8

Transported on Commercial flights

[TahitiNut]

17. Well, after all, it's "supporting our troops."

:puke:

[MindPilot]

19. A casket is heavy.

You would just have a couple of really strong ramp rats drag it in to the cargo area?

[Jeanette in FL]

3. That is just heartbreaking nt

[Mad_Dem_X]

5. There's just so much wrong with this scene

I don't even know where to begin...so sad...:cry:

[Ex Lion Tamer]

6. Are you sure that's real?

It's so unbelieviably crass it almost has to be fake.

[underpants]

7. Yahoo news photos

Looks real to me

http://news.yahoo.com/photos

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/gallery/1756

[Ex Lion Tamer]

8. And I found this article via Huffington:

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html


Fucking unbelievable.

[HeeBGBz]

12. That makes me ill

[bananas]

21. this one

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/051211/photos_ts_afp/051211153401_lzzrii5h_photo4

[marylanddem]

11. This is an amazing photograph

I am struck by the aura of distance & helplessness of those standing around in the photograph. The insanity of this war. The conversion of human beings into cannon fodder for no reason on God's earth other than greed and self-aggrandizement...of those in power. It is a remarkable & infuriating photo.

[Supersedeas]

34. after a deep breath...i agree

[npincus]

13. Looks like a f*cking Costco or BJs

[marylanddem]

14. "Iraqis vote this week in a watershed election..."

What the hell does this information about the Iraqi elections - and how many fucking elections have they had that are supposed to be "watershed" - have to do with the image? Is that supposed to explain the image?

[underpants]

15. Let's refresh out memories on the when the insurgents will give up

The insurgents are a bunch of "Dead enders" in their "last throes" attacks will diminish when

Baghdad falls
Saddam is captured
the CPA leaves
the Iraqis assume their own leadership
there is a vote on a constitution
there is a vote on a constitutional congress
there is a vote on December 15th

etc

[Neecy]

27. I had the same reaction...

The happy talk at the end of the caption disgusted me - it's like they're trying to shove the reason du jour for this senseless carnage down our throats. Elections don't make a democracy. Iraq isn't one, won't be, and this whole line is reasoning is a complete sham.

[TahitiNut]

16. Suggested title: "The Big Box War: Many (un)Happy Returns"

:cry: Or .... "The Big Box War: Making The World Safe for Corporations"

[Crankie Avalon]

18. Wow...no respect at all.

What's next? Being so careless that they accidentally "wheel over" the wrong box of remains to the parents?

[MindPilot]

22. No, that scene is very respectful

The ramp worker is standing off a very polite distance away as are the Honor Guard while the bereaved approach the casket.

Don't get too freaked out by this. Airlines ship bodies all the time, they have special pallets called an "air tray" and casket is--like it or not--another piece of freight. Airlines aren't mortuaries; they are equipped to move cargo and when the cargo happens to be a coffin they will make their best effort allow the persons receiving the deceased a private moment.

There is nothing crass or disrespectful here.

That said however, when the dead solder arrives in a military town such as San Diego, I don't think the parents should have to go to the airport; the arrival should happen on-base with full honors.

[Crankie Avalon]

24. You have your opinion and you're welcome to it.

P.S. San Diego (your hometown, I see) rates consideration but Chicago doesn't? :eyes:

[MindPilot]

30. Oh puh-leeze. "San Diego rates but Chicago doesn't"?

One story was from San Diego, one from Chicago. I happen to live in San Diego so I used the place I'm most famliar with as an example. Obviouly you don't like having to deal with facts and practicalities so you roll your eyes at me. If you're looking to pick a fight with me you're going to have to come up with something better than that.

[Crankie Avalon]

31. You take it upon yourself to single out my post and then pretend...

...that it isn't you "picking a fight?"

I responded a little because you addressed me directly, but honestly your opinion doesn't much matter to me. I "rolled my eyes" at you because you deserved it. I bet a lot of other people do it in your daily life, too, so go find one who wouldn't mind wasting a little time with you if you're feeling lonely.

Apart from that, have a nice day.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crankie Avalon]

35. Be your own person and do what you like...

...if you want another person's view of this exchange, then go ahead and "alert." It doesn't matter to me.

[MindPilot]

36. OK, enough of you, ignore it is.

[godai]

32. I couldn't disagree more

I see no respect. The military needs to arrange for all deceased soldiers to be met at the airport by a military hearse, with soldiers to bear the body to the hearse. The hearse should transfer the remains to wherever the families wish. NO FORKLIFTS!

Let's see if this photo gets on the nightly news. I don't think it would fit the image of how much respect is given to fallen soldiers and how it's the families who want this to be kept private.

[Bridget Burke]

20. Unfortunately, it's not a new story....

One morning when the office had opened,
a man quite old in years
Stood by the Express Office, showin signs of grief and tears
And as the clerk approached him,
these tremblin words did say
I'm waiting for my Boy sir, He's comin home today

Well you have made a slight mistake,
but you must surely know
That this is a telegraph office sir, and not the town depot
And if your Boy's a-comin home, the clerk did smile and say
You'll find him with the passengers
at the Station just over the way

No you do not understand me sir, the old man shook his head
He's coming not as a passenger, but by express instead
He's a-coming home to Mother, the old man gently said
He's comin home in a casket sir, he's comin to us dead

And then a whistle pierced their ears,
express train someone cried
The old man rose in a breathless daze
and quickly rushed outside
And then a long white casket was lowered to the ground
And showin signs of grief and tears,
to them as gathered round

He said do not treat him roughly boys,
it contains our Darlin Jack
He went away as you boys are, this way he's comin back
He broke his dear old Mother's heart,
her sayins have all come true
She said its the way that he'd come home,
if he joined the Boys in Blue

http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiCMNGDEAD;ttCMNGDEAD.html

I remember the New Lost City Ramblers' version of this old tune.

But--why the Hell doesn't an honor guard meet this generation's war dead?

[havocmom]

23. Thank you for your post. Historical perspective on this issue is helpful.

Too many seem to have fallen into the trap of jerking knees instead of getting info and thinking it through. Will we be surprised when the RW pundits point it out to us?

Not every soldier's family lives near a military base where they can fly a casket in a military plane and have the means for a full honor guard to greet the fallen hero. We live in the real world.

In a perfect world there would be no parents and family grieving soldiers lost in a war of choice made by evil men who lied and profit from those lies.

The outrage needs to be focused on the reasons those caskets are needed, not the fact that there are practical considerations involved with their return.

[Bridget Burke]

26. The "delivery" at the top of this thread happened at O'Hare....

Hard to believe such a big city has no military presence.

My father's remains were escorted to his family home back in 1953--with the help of the local AFB & the American Legion. I remained at the SAC base where he'd been stationed, being too young to attend the ceremony. Please, tell me about the Real World.

[havocmom]

28. I am sorry you lost your dad.

But there are still logistics involved. This is nothing new. I was part of a couple of very small groups to attend the arrival of fallen soldiers a few decades ago. The military cannot send a detail to each soldier's home, even if that home is close to a base.

Far as I have noticed, honor guards are present if the fallen soldier is buried at a military cemetery, and usually not before internment. I see no disrespect in the fact that the military saves most manpower for keeping the living cared for. It does not mean many in the ranks do not grieve and remember.

And I maintain that our energies are better spent making more people aware of the callous disregard for life and law show by those who lied to get their war on. Would also like to see us manage to change the minds of those making policy so more lives might not be lost in this immoral exercise to profit from the blood of innocents.

[underpants]

25. Military Dealing With Bugler Shortage

This has been widely reported. Quite often the local recruiter shows up at WWII vet funeral (~1,000 a day across the country) and hits play on a Boombox.

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_315144121.html

Nov 11, 2005 1:39 pm US/Central

(AP) CHICAGO A shortage of buglers means organizers are turning to recordings to play taps at military honors ceremonies.

That's how it was at the funeral for World War Two veteran Steven Polus at Resurrection Cemetery in suburban Chicago. The mournful tune was played not by a musician, but by a CD player.

Air Force Sergeant Derrick Judkins says he would like to see a bugler at every ceremony, but there are too many funerals for that to be possible.

[havocmom]

29. Sad but true

Reality is not often the poetry we would like it to be.