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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:16 AM
Original message
Overall feelings right now: Some Democrats need to go
I sent this email out to some of my friends and family and thought that includes all of you too.
:rant:

Just to let you know, I feel that these two Democrats represent exactly what is wrong with the Democratic Party, Hillary and Lieberman. I have decided that I wouldn’t support them for my city council, let alone senator or president. Here is what I am seeing time after time after time online:

- Posturing on important issues that make no decisions and give no real position.
o Example: Iraq war, not really for or against or anything in between. Just muck and a vote for the war in 2002.
- Taking sides on the right of center on non-important fluff issues to make them look more Republican.
o Video Games: They are blaming all of society’s problems on video games. But instead of suggesting programs to help society, they want to censor video games. For example, they are more concerned with zombies eating each other in a fantasy video game than with speaking out against a REAL war or REAL death in Pakistan, New Orleans, Iraq, or any number of places in REALITY. By the way, video games ALREADY have a rating system MORE sever than movies that prevent children from buying violent or other problem video games, and after that, the PARENT needs to make sure they are PARENTING.
o Flag Burning: Hillary just co-sponsored a bill to make flag-burning illegal. While I understand the concern, the problem is that it contradicts her own views on not supporting a constitutional amendment banning flag-burning. Either the constitution already allows for them to outlaw flag-burning or it doesn’t. The idea of co-sponsoring a bill that tries to make something illegal that you don’t believe is able to be made illegal is insanity. Or it is political posturing and I am woefully tired of that.

These are the kind of Democrats that I am proud of:

John Murtha – Offered an Iraq exit plan that calls for “phased redeployment” of troops out of Iraq in 6 months to a year. While Republicans are calling this a “cut and run” strategy, if you actually read the bill, it is effectively a regional security force placed in surrounding friendly countries that can be called into Iraq at the first sign of trouble. Troops will be withdrawn from Iraq while allowing the US to protect its interests in the region and protecting against the Iraqi government falling. I think this is a pretty good plan myself. If not after the elections in Iraq, then when will we ever leave? Never, and that is the way Dick Cheney and Halliburton want it.

Dennis Kucinich – I agree with him on just about everything. (not everything though, but just about) As of right now, he would be my choice for President in 2008.

Russ Feingold – He will probably filibuster the renewal of the Patriot Act which even by Bush’s own advisors has been called into question as violating the constitution of what extreme powers the President can have over citizens. Such as keeping someone, anyone, forever in jail without ever charging them with a crime. By the way that is one of the big reasons for the American Revolution was the King’s power in Britain to do just that, hence why the founding fathers put that in the constitution. There are many, many other problems with the Patriot Act, for example, they aren’t even allowed to say what is in it. We don’t even know what the law is. This kind of secrecy in government is open door for corruption and misuse against the people.


There are many more Democrats that I am happy with right now, but I feel like the party needs to be purged of the purely political and replaced with high thinkers and people who don’t position themselves on everything looking to make a few more points at the polls. So far, I think the party is already much better off than in 2004. The Republican party seems to be overcome with corruption right now. The Democrats seem to have some problems with that of their own, but the Republican Party needs to be completely overhauled. Just read that as many as 60 Republican congressmen may be involved in the Abramoff scandal, including already indicted on a separate charge, Tom DeLay. Duke Cunningham just resigned and is going to jail for a while. It seems that his scandal could go further too. At first it seemed like an isolated incident, but there is evidence that the contracts he gave to the defense contractors may have caused the Republican Party to be able to funnel money from taxpayers directly into the party’s re-election campaigns in 2004. I also feel like this is what is happening in Iraq since the beginning. Oil is nice, but the main problem is that all the taxpayer money for the war is being funneled directly to companies owned by top Republicans. They are making hundreds of Billions of dollars from taxpayer money.

I will NOT support Hillary Clinton, if she runs, in 2008 and I hope she looses the Democratic Senate Primary in 2006 to a Democrat who is worth voting for. The same thing goes for Lieberman.

Maybe I'll change my mind, but I don't do that very often.

Thanks for reading,
jsamuel

:rantoff:
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. One big difference between Lieberman and Clinton
is that Lieberman says what he believes, while Clinton says what she believes will increase her political fortunes.

Neither of them is saying what most of us here would like, but I'd take Lieberman over Clinton if someone was holding a gun to my temple and telling me to choose.

Peace.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think Lieberman sticks up for Israel against our own interests
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:31 AM by Erika
Israel had more U.N. sanctions against it than Iraq ever did. But you didn't see W invading Israel.
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filthyrichkleptocrat Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. UN sanctions against Israel?
Why would the UN want to pick on Israel?

Is it possible that the UN delegates representing a billion Moslems from the 54 Islamic nation states
who want all of Israels 5.3 million Jews to die could be ganging up on that tiny country?

Perhaps the United States should join up with those nations so we can help them drive that manacing horde of Hebrews right into the sea!

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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Could it be all the nukes Israel has??
Israel can take care of herself.

She also needs to follow International law --- for that matter so does the US.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. We need to stop babying Israel...Israel needs to start behaving itself
Israel needs to be told to either start behaving themselves OR they're on their own...they spend enough on defense they should be able to defend themselves adequately...they don't need anyone to hold their hand.

The message should be told to them: Let IAEA people into Israel to look at YOUR nuclear program and to look at YOUR stocks of chemical weapons. Also pull down the Berlin Wall II that you've built.

That would just be for starters. If I were President, the US veto at the UN that has always saved Israel would be gone...unless Israel agreed to the above demands, I'd have every damn sanction going slapped on them...also I would STOP all US financial aid to Israel...it's time they were taught the lesson the hard way, either you behave yourself or you get cut loose.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. I've been thinking that has alot to do with his stance on Iraq as well.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. I cannot support Hillary either
The Senate knows damn well that our taxes are being directly funneled to W's buds and they are doing nothing to stop it.

It's like they simply have no interest in stopping the redistribution of our taxes to globalists. None at all.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:30 AM
Original message
Murtha supports what you state too
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:41 AM by ...of J.Temperance
His voting record:

http://www.issues2000.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

Murtha makes Hillary look like LENIN.

Corrected link.
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NorthELiberal Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH.......... WAAAAAHHHHHH
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:28 AM by NorthELiberal
Hillary and Lieberman are the cause of all Demcorats problems....... WAAAAAAAAAAA (Baby Wailing)....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..........


Next round of posts will be about Bill Maher or Jon Stewart saying something that hurt people's feelings.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. somebody call the WAAAAAmbulance, huh... Well, it is a rant...
and I posted so.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Out of the others you named...I support Hillary AND Russ Feingold n/t
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Thanks for the lesson in maturity, there.
Now don't you have homework to do?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. What are you talking about? n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. People must stop rah rah rahing Jack Murtha...he's uber RIGHT-WING
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:41 AM by ...of J.Temperance
Here's Jack Murtha's voting record...btw he supported an Amendment to banning flag burning LONG BEFORE Hillary did...check out his voting record on Civil Rights it's IN there...also Murtha's anti-abortion...check out these: Civil Rights, Abortion, Crime, Education, Foreign Policy sections.

I'm sorry give me Hillary ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over Right-Winger Murtha, here's his voting record:

http://www.issues2000.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

Hey, ya gonna call Murtha WHAT he IS a DINO.

Corrected link.
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NorthELiberal Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oooooo.....
I was wondering what took people so long to jump on Jack Murtha.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. That's a pretty big post...considering you've only been here for 23 days
You seem to have made two opposite comments...first up you make fun of the Original Poster over their comments...and then you come after me over my Murtha comments.

*Scratches head*
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NorthELiberal Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. The comments are in line....... I can see how they can be misread.....
........

The original poster bashed Hillary and Lieberman..... then you bashed Murtha...... I was just wating to see who would get bashed next.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I do have a track record of DEFENDING Democrats...I don't do bashing!!
Jaysus, I think Murtha is the first one that I've criticized in that way.

But I did it because The Myth of Murtha needs to be corrected with some of the facts. Sure it's good that he's going after Bush Inc. on Iraq and telling the truth...however I'm not even 60% sure that Murtha is even a Democrat...his voting record looks like a 99% Repuke voting record.

Joe Lieberman has an 85% what would be termed Liberal voting record...Murtha's Liberal voting record is about 1%.

It's odd, I hate how Holy Joe sucks up to Bush Inc. and I hate how Holy Joe whores Iraq around for Junior...but on pretty much every other issue from his voting record Holy Joe is a GOOD Democrat, he's got pretty solid Democratic Party credentials.

This might be unpopular to comment this on DU, but you know, it's the truth.

I like how Murtha is bashing Junior and telling the truth about Iraq...but on pretty much every other issue from his voting record Murtha is NOT a Democrat, he's got pretty solid Republican Party credentials.

I'll put it this way...if I lived in that Pennsylvania District, I don't think I could vote for Murtha. If I lived in Connecticut, then I'd hold my nose and vote for Lieberman.

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. there is a difference between bashing and criticizing
I did the latter.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. You did...I re-read your OP and your comments are well-thought out
And articulate. Actually, you only have one vote, so I'll go and make it too :)

Also people around GD and GD Politics, they KNOW by now that I've got a record of DEFENDING Democrats from being bashed...so my comments about Murtha are in fact RARE...and I don't think I was bashing Murtha, I told the truth about his voting record and that's not bashing.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. but he, unlike most Democrats, came up with a plan that makes sense and
gets us the heck out of there ASAP.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. We cannot JUST support someone over their Iraq Plan...what ABOUT
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:40 AM by ...of J.Temperance
The OTHER 99% of his ATROCIOUS voting record eh?

We had a silly poll about "Would you support Murtha for Veep?"

WHAT? Yeah sure, Murtha would make a great Veep with his terrible voting record:

http://www.issues2000.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

You might NOT like it, but there it is, these are the FACTS and THAT is Murtha's voting record...and it fucking sucks.

Corrected link.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. you do have a point
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:46 AM by jsamuel
that his voting record is more consevative and not so liberal...

But that doesn't mean that I can't be proud of him for providing a plan to get us out when we are in such a hot political environment.
I don't want him for VP or Pres, but I am proud of him.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yes his plan for Iraq IS the most sensible...I've corrected the link
Well I was proud of Jack Murtha too, when he came out swinging and telling the truth and carpeting Bush Inc. over their lies.

I just wish he was with us more of the time on other issues too. Sorry, I thought you were in the thread about Murtha being a good choice for Veep...it's okay, I'm naturally stupid :)

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. We can't have politics in our POLITICAL PARTY!!!
Instead we need high-minded, totally inaccurate and silly blah and candidates like Dennis Kucinich, who couldn't even get 10% of the vote in his home state's Democratic primary in 2004.

Helluva carnival, isn't it?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. A rightwinger that's got it right concerning the war.
Why not support the thing he's got right?
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. The only one consistently worth of the label Democrat
is Feingold.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Couldn't have said it better myself ...
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:43 AM by LiberalAndProud
I will not cast a vote for Hillary, ever. She is a political animal who either has no courage or no conviction. If she were to win the nomination in 2008, I would write in for Barbara Boxer.

Lieberman is wrong-headed and vindictive, and my own Senator Ben needs to move to the other side of the aisle.

Some Dems need to go.




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NorthELiberal Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. "I will not cast a vote for Hillary,
ever. She is a political animal who either has no courage or no conviction. If she were to win the nomination in 2008, I would write in for Barbara Boxer"

Even if she were running against Jeb Bush or Rice? How Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!! So we can have a repeat of 2000!!!!!!! Great strategy....... straight out of the Nader playbook.......
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. You are probably right.
It's a much better strategy to let these folks hijack my party. When did we become the party of the Lesser evil?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Any Dem who serves big money corporate lobbist friends over the
American people, needs to exit stage left (or in their case stage right).
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
27. I often wonder why the new democrats want to kill off
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 08:49 AM by mmonk
the only thing that was beginning to work. The questions over this war, the dishonesty behind it, or whether this course has been wise was beginning to take its toll on the administration. Now without the questions as a focus, the resident is rebounding.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. So much effluvience, so few facts......
"Hillary just co-sponsored a bill to make flag-burning illegal. While I understand the concern, the problem is that it contradicts her own views on not supporting a constitutional amendment banning flag-burning. "
Why?

By the way, John Murtha also opposes flag burning...in fact, he's cosponsored a Constitutional amendment to ban flag burning. His fellow co-sponsor, by the way, was Duke Cunningham, of whom you may have heard.

"I feel like the party needs to be purged of the purely political "
Yeah...god forbid we have any politics in our political parties. Especially not smart politics by popular Democrats who are walloping their Republican opponents.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. It always makes me laugh MrB when
People say "they should stop playing politics"

They ARE politicians and politicans play politics because politics is the business that politicians are in!

Heck, I sure hope that makes some sense ;)
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. "purely political"
not political
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Especially funny to have to "kick politicians out" of our political party
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 09:00 AM by MrBenchley
who are walloping their Republican political opponents in the polls and are shoo-ins for re-election, no?

For the good of the party, natch.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. If you run a Republican(R) against a Republican(D) you get a Republican.
As Harry Truman said.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. I haven't given up on Hillary yet though Lieberman is to me a lost cause.
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