I HATE these fucking pig fuckers

[...of J.Temperance]

They lied to go into a war of CHOICE, they're now lying about the lies, they're making BILLIONS for their offshore bank accounts, they've banned the media from showing any footage of the flag-draped coffins coming home, they're still sending young soldiers to their deaths...and now THIS...a complete disrespect of those young soldiers remains.

Hidden in the cargo holds of commercial planes, hidden amongst peoples' suitcases and other baggage.

These young soldiers remains brought home as freight...and the MONSTERS, the PIG FUCKERS that are doing THIS...they say that WE don't support the troops and that THEY do support the troops. HOW THE FUCKING HELL IS THIS SUPPORTING THE TROOPS? SENDING THEM TO THEIR DEATHS AND THEN BRINGING THEIR REMAINS HOME TO THEIR LOVED ONES AS FUCKING FREIGHT!! NO honor guard, no NOTHING.

Dammit, stories like this just make you feel SO frustrated with whats happening and make you feel SO powerless...:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

These MONSTERS need to burn in Hell for doing this.

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

Sorry, I just needed to have a rant over this you know.

[undergroundpanther]

1. I hate these tyrants too

I really do. They are sick sick sick.
Hugs.

[Initech]

2. I'm seriously shocked by this - it's disgusting

I mean what a way to support the troops. :puke:

[Warpy]

3. Monsters like these are why religions invented hell

Your rant is duly noted.

However, looking at these bitter, greedy little men, would it be better to BE one of them?

[StClone]

4. Rat Bastards

Have taken our money, our young and our patriotism for their own pleasure and wealth. They enjoy the lies and getting their way and grinding the weak, poor, and unprivileged into dust. Out of hell they came.

[sleipnir]

5. This is common practice with dead bodies.

It is how bodies are moved around the country. It might not be pretty, but it is true and has been for many, many years. It is the safest and most efficient way to move a body, in terms of time. If Jim X died today in Boston and his funeral was to be in San Diego, the accepted method of transportation would be on a passenger plane from Boston to San Diego. What would you have them do? Fly one coffin in a one plane to one place? Do you realize the implications of that? At the risk of a flame-fest, from a pure environmental standpoint, that's an enormous waste of fuel and tons of unneeded pollutants in our air for a single person. And that's just one reason. The system now for transporting bodies makes absolute sense, it's efficient and takes place on already scheduled modes of transportation.

What is needed is a more dignified and honoring method from the airport to the funeral home.

[stillcool]

10. It is your last point that is the controversy...

that these soldiers are not met and given the dignity they deserve.

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.

[TomInTib]

11. Exactly. There are people who provide this service.

They pick up the body at the airport and deliver them to a funeral home.
The question is who would pay for the service.
Not this government. That's for damned sure.

No family should be told they can pick up their kid at the airport.

[...of J.Temperance]

20. And have them delivered to them by a baggage man on a fork-lift

WITHOUT an honor guard. It's a DISGRACE Mr. Tom.

[tamtam]

13. Military transport

MC130 from Iraq to the family that is the only acceptable transport IMO. You want to ship dead civilians in that manner fine, I see nothing wrong with that. You have to do what you have to do and if the only way civilians can get their dead family member from point A to point B then so be. These kids dying in Iraq are not ordinary civilians they died in a freaking war thousands of miles away from their family. We can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a day to fly practice sorties all over this country then we can spend the money to get a C130 military plane to get these kids home. They should have military escort from the time they fall to the time of burial. They gave their lives for the military and for most of these kids the military was their life. As I said in another thread I don't think this is too much to ask from the pro-military crowd.

[TahitiNut]

15. I'm trying hard to remember, but it seems to me that bodies were escorted

... in transport and met by locally-stationed personnel (a small honor guard). As I recall, this was one of the adjunct duties of recruiters - to meet the coffin and the escort. The escort would then return or travel on with whatever their orders were - usually to another duty station. The service man or woman, officer or enlisted, who notified the family wasn't supposed to do "double duty" (family and body), but the body was supposed to be accompanied until the family received it, usually at the mortuary.

Absolutely everything the military does is covered in some Field Manual. I looked for one that covers this (they're available online) but didn't find it.

On edit: The relevant Army Regulation is AR 638-2. It seems, from what I've browsed, that I'm largely correct. The escort is required to accompany the remains until they're accepted by the family's designated funeral home or equivalent recipient.

The point is, a dead soldier's remains are never unaccompanied. Never. Not until accepted by NOK/family.

[sleipnir]

25. Thank you for that research.

It seems that things might have gone off of protocol a couple of times. That's a great sadness, I think that at the least we can present the coffin with a solider of arms to the family. We own them that much. Hopefully, these incidents will not be repeated in the future.

[ComerPerro]

37. And, you know, since there are apparently so few deaths in Iraq

(this, according to the administration and many conservative pundits, aka "Only 2000 have died in two years, whats the big deal?")

then it is even more unacceptable that the remains are unaccompanied...

[madeline_con]

17. Thanks for pointing that out.

I was going to mention it earlier, but feared the flames. :scared:

[...of J.Temperance]

18. The PART that pisses me off...NO HONOR GUARD

Soldiers remains treated as freight, unloaded off the planes without flags on the coffins, unloaded off by regular baggage handlers and delivered to their loved ones in what looks like an airport warehouse BY FORK LIFTS...WITHOUT ANY HONOR GUARD escort.

Did I EVEN mention the environmental factor? I was MENTIONING the COMPLETE disrespect of the shabby process.

The coffins should be treated correctly, before off loading a flag should be draped over them, and an honor guard should be waiting to take the coffin to their loved ones.

Not on a fork-lift like a fucking crate of peaches or a crate of potatoes.

PERSPECTIVE...please.

[madokie]

45. As I sit here reading this I feel so sad

These are our finest, not to be treated as baggage, a need to be treated as hero's, respected. This little man, the coward deserves to be drawn and quartered, to be treated as he treats. He is not my leader.

[...of J.Temperance]

48. They are DISGUSTING maggots, that's what they are

Don't forget what Bush Inc's original plan was for the soldiers who would be killed in Iraq.

The Pentagon had a plan to just bury them IN Iraq...I remember reading about this, they were going to just dig a pit and shovel our soldiers remains into it :cry:

THEY ARE MONSTERS...They were sent HERE from HELL, they work for the Dark Side, they are here to do the Devil's work on earth...and when it's over they will return to where they came from and they'll burn for Eternity.

Sorry, this is the lapsed Catholic coming through ;)

[Cooley Hurd]

26. I have no problem with the transport of human remains via cargo hold...

When I worked for American Airlines (15 years ago), that's where the HR's would be placed (in the forward, pressurized and climate-controlled, cargo hold). However, some sort of honor guard (whether it be soldiers from the local National Guard unit or, hell, even an honor guard from the local VFW or American Legion would suffice) should meet the HR's at the destination - at the very least for the comfort of the family of the fallen soldier.

[...of J.Temperance]

29. The LACK of an honor guard is what REALLY makes this so upsetting

These soldiers have given their LIVES for this damn LIE thats called The War on Terror...they deserve to be brought home in full view of the public and each and every one of them deserve an honor guard to escort their casket.

[lonestarnot]

38. These bodies aren't rained on trash! They are GI's. They deserve way more

than "average" accommodations.

[jbnow]

6. They are worthy of hate but

per Kos research that is a normal way to fly them home. The issue is as soon as that hold opens the casket should already be draped and met by ...is it called the honor guard? Not baggage handlers.

The greatest fury is that they are in a casket at all.

[NanceGreggs]

7. Your post is NOT A RANT ...

... it is well-expressed outrage!

I only wish (yeah, right) the powers-that-be in our Democratic Party would make use of this information -- not just to illustrate how this Administration is 'supporting the troops', but to demonstrate, once and for all, to Bush's FEW surviving supporters what this Administration REALLY thinks about the young men and women it is sacrificing!

We've all seen the GOP 'White Flag' ads that are about to be launched -- THIS is the counter to that ad.

If there are any Dem PR and/or advertising people reading this thread (and I've got to think there are), this is the story that YOU NEED to get out to the American public-at-large.

What compassionate American, regardless of party affiliation, could look at THIS and not be outraged?

Great post! Kicked and nominated, because THIS story needs to be front-and-centre!

:kick:

[...of J.Temperance]

21. Thank you NanceGreggs :)

You're right, it is outrageous and whats more outrageous is why isn't this the top story on the news? Why are they ignoring this?

[...of J.Temperance]

22. self-delete...accidental double post n/t

[TomInTib]

8. I know the process is uncaring and disrespectful but...

what is the alternative?

I do think that the family should NEVER have to envision their loved one being handled like baggage.

This should be handled with more grace at the local level.

The notification process by DOD in this case could stand some tuning.

War and death, Ms B, are gritty affairs. Unfortunately the military just doesn't give a shit for the dead. Ineffective assets.

My heart goes out to these families.

[...of J.Temperance]

23. The military just doesn't give a shit for the dead. Ineffective assets.

The saddest part of your statement is that it's true. These soldiers are just cannon fodder for Bush Inc., once they're dead, they've served their purpose for Bush Inc. and so are just thrown away...like no more than candy bar wrappers.

Disgusting in the extreme.

[bluestateguy]

9. Imagine if the Clinton Pentagon did this

I can already hear the bellows of rage from the usual suspects and conservative columnists.

Instead, this will be defended in the name of "efficiency" in George W. Bush's military.

Note that it was Barbara Boxer, that liberal, military-hating commie, who fixed this problem.

[Golden Raisin]

12. And WE'LL all be accused of "not supporting the troops"!

Here's an idea --- how about spending some of the tons of money pissed away on inaugural balls, inaugural parades and bloated nominating conventions to provide honor guards, respectful treatment and proper funerals for our dead troops. Or how about spending all of the budget currently appropriated for photo ops for Bush? Didn't they temporarily light up a Square in darkened, powerless New Orleans with emergency generators during his photo op during Hurricane Katrina and then plunge the city back into darkness the minute he blew town? But don't hold your breath while BushCo is in power. They can't even provide proper armor for our soldiers in Iraq when they are alive. You expect them to worry about them after they're dead? Where money is concerned, BushCo is too busy running up our national deficit to insane levels, making sure the top 1% of the wealthiest don't have a tax burden, keeping Halliburton on the gravytrain with no-bid contracts and keeping Jack Abrahamoff busy raising lots of good, honest, lobbying dollars, all for good, charitable & worthwhile causes.

[lonestarnot]

39. Absofukinglutely! Fuck the pear trees and hot pink ribbons, costing god

only knows how much to decadently decorate the WH, use last years shit! How much did all that crap cost. Maybe enough to handle service and bury several with the respect and dignity they deserve!

[FreedomAngel82]

14. Hear hear!

Amen! :( I can't stand them either!!! Than they go around and say they want to hang Howard Dean because he speaks the truth and other good democrats too!

[upi402]

16. *WE* support the troops, THEY just use the troops

Why the fuck is this country so goddamn upside down vis-a-vis perception.

Transport deceased civilians in commercial jets as cargo -fine.
But honor our fallen with a military flight accompanied by returning comrades and personnel.
We've LOST $9 Billion in the sand there. And Haliburton, KBR, Titan, Cocky et. al. have made obscene profits. I hate these phony bastards too.

[...of J.Temperance]

19. We've long been in Alice Through The Looking Glass land

In BushWorld, day is night, up is down, war is peace, failure is success, propaganda is truth, truth is lies.

When will it end...will somebody or ANYBODY please end this insanity for us.

[aPOSITIVEwin]

24. Calm down...

This article was about ONE family, in ONE city, and ONE soldier's remains. It was not talking about how the body was treated by the military in Dover (we've all seen the carefully flag-draped coffins and color guard there)--it was talking about a COMMERCIAL airliner that the military might not have had complete control over. That's something we can all understand.

[Binka]

28. A Bit New To The Game To Be Patronizing Pal

Welcome to DU.

[...of J.Temperance]

30. I love that little

Cartoon kitty, it's SO darn cute :)

[Binka]

31. Thanks Sweetie! BTW I Understand Your Outrage!

My son was inches from death on October 8, 2005 when his convoy was blown to shit in Ramadi. If he had come home in a box and was being treated like last weeks lunch I would have gone to Washington and kicked Bushes cowardly ass. Twice!

[...of J.Temperance]

36. I think I saw a picture that you posted of your son...is it Ben?

I'm so relieved that your son is recovering :)

His fellow soldiers deserve so much better, I just read that last night and it was like the last damn straw from these murderous, criminal psychopaths Junior, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Kicked Bushes cowardly ass. Twice! I wish Karma would hit the bastard LIVE on TV, so we could all see it happening.

[Binka]

42. Ben Is Healing Great!

Here we are at Bethesda for The USMC Birthday!

[...of J.Temperance]

44. Hey Ben's

A cutie pie...is he married? I mean, in two weeks I'm 27 and I'm NOT married ;)

You two look so happy together, I'm glad that he's doing fine.

For your son and for all of our other soldiers :patriot:

[Binka]

47. He's Single! He will be 25 June 11.

He likes brunettes BTW. He is 6-2 and 190 (He's down to 175 now because he lost his appetite after the IED killed his roomie:cry:) Here he is with the Marine Commandant when he got his Purple Heart!

[...of J.Temperance]

50. You know

I'm a brunette, so I am!

You must be SO proud of him and his Purple Heart.

Can we forget the Repukes Convention...Purple Heart bandaids...they are DISGUSTING...they are VILE. Purple Heart bandaids worn by a bunch of Chickenhawks.

[aPOSITIVEwin]

34. It's not patronizing...

...to point out the facts, the logic, in a situation.

[Binka]

41. It Was Your TONE

Please do not quibble with me, I understand the connotation of your words it was the denotation I have a problem with. You came off as a know-it-all and arrogant. YOU are NEW to these parts and your tone was offensive. You might need to attend DU etiquette school.

[...of J.Temperance]

57. aPOSITIVEwin, your 'um "interesting" comments on THIS thread (link)

You made some "interesting" comments on this below linked thread...they were made yesterday, on your second day...saying that DU should allow "they who shall not be named" to post on these forums.

"Interesting" view point I must say, and an "interesting" use of the word "your" when describing our Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5570686

:hi:

On Edit: I'm in no way afraid of debating "they who shall not be named"...their arguments are so batshit crazy and out to space, that it's incredibly easy to destroy their arguments. As soon as one confronts them with facts and logic, they crumble.

I'd have "they that shall not be named" for breakfast, lunch and dinner. An hour debating them and I'd have chewed them up and spat them out...I'd turn them into gibbering wrecks, I'd soon have them on their knees crying and begging for mercy and pleading for Momma.

[aPOSITIVEwin]

60. Why?

My signature line specifically states that I'm looking for a political party--I haven't tried to hide that. In the course of making up my mind, I naturally have questions, doubts--and I need to talk about them.

What's wrong with that?

[...of J.Temperance]

61. There's nothing wrong with asking questions

And there's nothing wrong with wanting to find a political party that you feel comfortable with.

However, one day in and asking "why don't you allow Right-Wing posters in for debate..."

This just isn't a good idea, I'm just telling you.

[aPOSITIVEwin]

63. Hey...

...I need to find out how THIS place works, too. The reasons things are done here at DU are important to know for all the members. If people aren't allowed to ask questions, then they have to assume or guess why a decision has been made--and that's not a very fair way to judge something. The political party I join has the potential for using up a lot of my time and money. I have to know that my faith has been well-placed.

[specimenfred1984]

62. You Sound Like That Merc POS

from Hawaii that was posting a few weeks ago.

Looking for a political party huh? Just can't decide huh? Have no morals huh?

[aPOSITIVEwin]

64. Choosing...

Nobody is born belonging to a particular political party. Thus, a decision to join one needs to be made by everyone, sometime. To put down one person because they have not yet chosen is to put down everyone here--and it doesn't make your party more appealing. You need to think about what you say before you say it.

[...of J.Temperance]

65. You need to think

About what you say before you say it to...I like FormerRepublicans threads and I came across this thread of theirs...and you'd made a completely extraordinary comment, and so I had to respond to you...the rose-tinted prism with which you're looking through is bizarre...I don't know if you've noticed, but we're NOT in Kansas anymore Toto!!

We've all but lost an ENTIRE, major, metropolitan and GREATLY loved city...we also have "Enemy Combatants", we also have "lockdowns" in cities every time Junior turns up in one, we also have an $8 trillion dollar National Debt, we also are running $500 billion dollar deficits per annum, we also have more people than EVER living on food stamps and the GOP are cutting $700 billion dollars from the food stamp program, we also have people who HAVE to choose each week between being able to afford an adequate amount of food for themselves or to cut back on food because they need to keep most of their money to buy themselves prescription drugs which they depend on to stay healthy and in some cases stay alive, we have record bankruptcies, we have record credit card debt, we have people who've lost their jobs due to outsourcing, we have young men and women coming home from Iraq that are brought home either dead or without limbs or eyes, and some without limbs and eyes...we have a variety of crisis level problems...I'd say that we are NOT "pretty close to being perfect", far from it...

We're NOT in Kansas anymore Toto!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2304195#2304287

[aPOSITIVEwin]

66. My answer...

...to the post was in reference to him saying I had no morals when he hasn't exchanged a single word with me, and has no idea who I am, or what I believe.

[aPOSITIVEwin]

67. Your link just shot me to the 'latest' page...

[specimenfred1984]

72. No, You Do

You're talking like a condescending POS, EXACTLY like the mercenary.

My guess is you are the same troll.

What do you have to say about that? You sound exactly like a person who murders people for money. Well, what do you say?

[OzarkDem]

40. Nothing new

Bush has been treating our troops like minimum wage workers since he took office. They're probably doing this to cut costs so more money can go to Halliburton.

[lonestarnot]

46. No it was talking about a forklift delivery, in a fucking warehouse, just

like rained on trash.
<>

[Binka]

51. Here's Another ONE! In Denver. Casket On A Forklift. We Should Calm Down?

[...of J.Temperance]

56. You know what, if YOU confronted the Repukes, the Freepers

Those Sociopathic freaks would call YOU un-Patriotic and say that YOU weren't supporting the troops.

That picture is just so tragic on every level.

[Bridget Burke]

52. I don't recall seeing much out of Dover....

In fact, I thought the press was not allowed to cover arrivals of flag draped coffins. It might look bad for Bush, you know.

I see no problem with transporting the bodies by commercial jet to their homes. But why was no honor guard ready to receive the bodies with respect?

Edited to add: Here's more information on how the government has fought release of photos from Dover.

www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB152/index.htm

The ban on media coverage of returning casualties was imposed by Defense Secretary Cheney after an embarrassing incident in which three television networks broadcast live, split-screen images in December, 1989, as the first U.S. casualties were returning from an American assault on Panama. In that incident, President Bush was seen on television joking at a White House news conference while somber images of flag-draped coffins arriving at Dover Air Force Base moved across viewers' screens. The ban on war casualty images was continued during the Clinton administration, which made several exceptions to allow publication and broadcast upon the return of victims of attacks against U.S. personnel abroad, including the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in 2000. President George W. Bush continued the ban following the start of the Afghanistan war in October, 2001 and the Iraq invasion in March, 2003.

Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Henry Shelton, coined the phrase "the Dover Test" to describe the impact of images of flag-draped coffins returning from a battlefield to the military mortuary at Dover, potentially affecting public support for a war. Images of casualties have played significant roles in many previous conflicts, beginning with the Civil War in the 1860's and continuing through World Wars I and II and the Vietnam conflict in the 1960's. In 1991, President Bush asserted that the U.S. had "kicked the Vietnam syndrome once and for all," but later in the 1990's, deployments of U.S. troops in Somalia, Bosnia and Kosovo were influenced by memories of the images of Vietnam-era casualties.

[B Calm]

27. Republican Henry Kissenger once said: The military are dumb, stupid

animals to be used for foreign corporate interests..

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. You want to see something that will really piss you off?

[...of J.Temperance]

53. Their CHILD delivered dead to them on a FORK LIFT TRUCK

In a FUCKING WAREHOUSE...treated no different than a crate of oranges...that's how they deliver crates of oranges on fork lift trucks.

I notice ONE soldier...and that poor Father and Mother, they just look SO alone, in the midst of the shock and heartbreak at being confronted with their childs casket, they have to have their child disrespected in such a way :cry:

[goddess40]

33. Thanks, you made me laugh

I love your subject line! I feel the same way and sometimes it gets to be overwhelming but then I read something like this and I don't feel so alone.

[...of J.Temperance]

43. Amidst all of this...I'm glad my subject line made you laugh :)

I know exactly how you FEEL. The only comfort in all of this upset...is that I know that there are OTHER people who FEEL the same way as I do, and that at least makes me feel a little bit better.

[JNelson6563]

35. But Hallibruton stock up 69% this year!

You obviously hate America.

[genie_weenie]

49. there are a couple of threads on this story

I've commented on those threads so I'll just briefly say this IS exactly the way the BushCo wants things to happen. If the caskets arrive in the dead of night with no circumstance or reverence, Americans will assume the "casualties" aren't too bad. After all who even on the excellent DU knows the WIA count right now? Do you think FAUX news would ever talk about the 16000 - 18000 wounded in the Iraq? Nope it's slam the surrender monkey, white-flag waving liberal cowards who cringe at a mere 2000 KIA...

Well, Fuck Bush, Fuck Demockery in Iraq...

[...of J.Temperance]

54. I shouldn't call them pigs, my Uncle Dan used to have a pet hog called

Orville, Uncle Dan had a pet hog called Orville when he was a child...and everyone's told me that Orville was just a sweet natured animal.

My Grandfather built Orville his own little house, and it was in the back garden...of course this might have seemed odd having a pet hog in the Garden District of NOLA...but there we go, that's where the house is and that's where Orville's little house was too.

I'm running out of cuss words to describe these psychopaths...pig fuckers seems to be my favorite term for them, even though I know it's an insult to pigs.

What I WANT to call them is the "c" word, but I think IF I were to use the "c" word my post would be quickly deleted.

I'm a girl and I have NO problem using the "c" word to describe these psychopaths.

[newportdadde]

55. Don't be shocked at them, its what they do. Be shocked at us..

the average American would rather bitch and moan about the 'War on Christmas' then worry their pretty minds on a thing like a kid being shipped back like a TV set.

[raysr]

58. I'm not a pig-fucker but a pig-fuckers

son, but I'll fuck pigs till the pig-fucker comes.(Guy I used to work with from NC used to say that alot). I think it's a regional thing.

[...of J.Temperance]

59. Thank you for your

Unique contribution to mah thread :)

:rofl:

[Faygo Kid]

69. Big fat hen. Couple of ducks. Three brown bears. Four running hares

Five funky females
Six Simple Simons sitting on a stone.
Seven Sicilian sailors sailing the seven seas.
Eight egotistical idiots echoing egotistical ecstasies.
Nine nude nymphs nipping and napping on gnat's knuckles and nicotine.
I am not the fig plucker but the fig plucker's son, but I will pluck your figs till the fig plucker comes.

It's a drinking game; that's where it came from. I remember it from the 1970s. Can't remember what I did yesterday, but remember this. If you messed up, you had to take a drink, then start over. Few made it past the "fig plucker."

[Faygo Kid]

70. Nope. See my post here.

"Fig plucker." And I am in the Midwest.

[...of J.Temperance]

71. So...you pluck figs? You pluck figs from the fig trees...where did

Where did Sylvester and Tweety go?

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[DarkTirade]

68. Now now, I don't think you should be calling them pig fuckers.

You're giving pig fuckers everywhere a bad name.