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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:30 PM
Original message
Reason For Iraq War: Oil For Euros
Lemme cut the crap here. It's really simple. The entire Iraq War has nothing to do with anything except this one thing: Hussein was going to sell his oil for Euros instead of Dollars. That's it. Simple.

The entire run-up to an invasion of Iran has nothing to do with anything except this: Iran is going to open a market in March selling oil for Euros. That's it. Simple.

Keep this in mind. Everything else is a distraction.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. if Iran is indeed going to launch an oil bourse in March . . .
BushCo must see attacking Iran to prevent that as an imperative . . . if oil starts trading in Euros rather than dollars, we are screwed . . .
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. March?! That's when Sharon just told Israel to bomb reactor


Amos Gilad, chief of strategic and security planning in the Defence Ministry, spoke after Britain's Sunday Times newspaper said Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had put armed forces on standby for a March strike on Iranian uranium enrichment sites.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-12-11T081511Z_01_FOR129694_RTRUKOC_0_UK-NUCLEAR-IRAN-ISRAEL.xml
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Funny, Isn't It? -- Tragic Actually
World events spin on economics, but the disinformation is about everything else.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. do you have a link for the bourse start up?
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Please See Below -- I Provide A Really Good Link
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. 100% correct n/t
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have tried so often to explain this to people
some get it, some don't. I agree with you completely.

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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I stopped trying to explain it....
hopefully the average American whose pocket(book) is hit by the present misadministartion's overseas adventures will start to question said group soon. It seems to be happening a little.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I agree that it's a major motive but can't explain exactly the currency
effect
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. For some odd reason, this doesn't get much traction
even though there are articles upon articles about it. Iraq/Oil/Euro/US

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. it's technical and has no face or boogey man to point to
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Yet it goes directly to the roots of the boogey man
and the faceless "they"

Money/Business/Control/Empire

What coin a country trades in sends ripples...and what coin oil trades in sends waves...to an economy that couldn't run without it. Think how powerful the EU could be if oil was traded, bought and sold - based - on the value of the Euro....and not the dollar.







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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. back to a multipolar world which would probably be better.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. The problem I have is the contradiction.
I definitely see the logic in this argument. I also have seen the logic and facts of other arguments for the war. Problem is they completely contradict each other. For example, how can I say this is the reason but at the same time tell people * was convinced to go to war already even before 2000? There are several things that point to the plots in Iraq and Afghanistan as being quite old and forged in stone, and they were all prior to Saddam ever hinting about changing to Euros.

It is that contradiction that keeps me from buying the euro angle 100%
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Euro could have kicked it over the top as did Caspian disappointment
But oil is at the bottom of it.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:46 PM
Original message
Oh No Doubt Oil. It's the euro thing that gets me.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Well, he was convinced...
but the Euro pushed the issue, 9/11 provided the impetus to the American public, AFG led to Iraq, in a wider "War on Terra".

It can all be tied together, especially when the spin doctors were so hard at work selling the PNAC to the country.

Maybe the people you're trying to explain it to are too ingnorant ( aka DUB-ya voters) to grasp the concept of an overall plan. (No offense if they're not that stupid.)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Niether Ignorant Nor Stupid.
But as a matter of record, a statement like convinced followed by a but convinced him more speaks volumes as to why I don't consider this to be the #1 issue.

Thanks for bolstering my point.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you...
this fact didn't get enough attention when Saddam first plotted to trade in Euros instead of American dollars, as is the custoim in petroleum circles.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. I wish Dems would stop talking in terms of phony reasons for war
and ONLY discuss the real economic case including reasons like this.

Until they do, they are still entertaining similar wars in the future, we are shut out of the debate, and we don't have a real democracy.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. yup
:think:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Give this poster VOTES to get real reasons for war into the debate
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why even in progressive circles so little discussion of OIL in Iraq War?
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. yup n/t
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. OK Folks -- Here's A Link
I know I'm sort of out-of-the-blue on this. Here's a great link that explains more fully:

The Meridian Report
A Global Perspective on Energy

www.themarkettraders.com

December 10th, 2005

If one stops for a moment to reflect on the use of weaponry over the course of history, we see that as a civilization we have indeed made tremendous strides. From hand to hand combat with sticks and stones we moved into bows and arrows. The invention of gunpowder then heralded yet another new age. Since black powder muskets in the Civil War timeframe, we have now engineered and refined our way to high velocity precision rifles. Along the way, advances in aeronautics gave us the ability to shoot at our foes from high above the ground. Advances in science then gave us the ability to exploit the power inherent in the atom. Once combined with aeronautics, we were able to drop atomic bombs from an overhead aircraft not onto an individual below but onto an entire city below. Advances in computer controlled guidance systems now see us launching so called “smart” bombs from great distances using stealth type flying crafts. But, the best is yet to come. We are about to see a radical new type of weapon unveiled on the global stage. This weapon will not rely on explosive technology or flying aircraft. This weapon will not kill enemy troops. This weapon will not see one army invading the territory of another. No, instead this weapon will simply rely on supply and demand, the basic concepts that underpin Economics 101. This new weapon will be a financial weapon. In fact this weapon will be so powerful it will be able to inflict serious harm on the financial stability of an entire adversarial nation. This weapon is the BOURSE. That’s right – the BOURSE. The dictionary defines BOURSE as follows:

BOURSE: a word of French origin meaning a stock exchange for securities trading.

If I have totally confused you, don’t run away. Keep reading and follow my argument

If you think the invasion of Iraq was about 9-11 and Al-Qaida then I urge you to think again. Cast aside all that the major television networks have programmed into your daily thinking, take a deep breath and slowly exhale. Now, think…real hard. Were any WMD’s (Weapons of Mass Destruction) ever found in Iraq? Has any connection between 9-11 and Saddam Hussein been solidly proven? The answer to both queries is a resounding NO. So why then would the US, the world’s largest economic entity, undertake an invasion of Iraq to capture and remove leader Saddam Hussein? The answer is all about economics. More specifically, Currency. That’s right, Currency. You see, Saddam Hussein had developed a very serious, very viable plan to sell Oil from his country in exchange for Euros. Had he succeeded in putting this plan into action, the damage to the stature of the US Dollar as the global reserve currency would have been un-fixable. Oil importing nations would have reduced their holdings of US Dollars and added Euros to their vaults. The damage to the US economy which is entirely predicated on US Dollar supremacy could have been quite serious indeed. So, in the immediate aftermath of 9-11, the US launched a major offensive under the rather attractive name Operation Iraqi Freedom to trounce any Oil for Euros plans once and for all. But CNN told you a different story. Over and over, night after night you were reminded that Saddam Hussein was a monster. He was sitting on a massive cache of destructive weapons that threatened your safety. He was intimately linked to Al Qaida and global terror. Carefully crafted stories by embedded reporters and film footage of US and British troops moving triumphantly towards Baghdad made the while thing seem larger than life.

Now, fast forward to December 2005. As I write this edition of the Meridian Report, there is a growing sense of deja-vu. This time, it is Iran that is causing problems. But, CNN will have you believe that Iran is causing nuclear problems by refusing to scale back its nuclear program. The real story is that by March 2006 Iran is threatening to have in place an entity called the Iranian Oil Bourse. Trading of Oil on this exchange will be denominated in – yes you guessed it – Euros. A well choreographed play from Saddam’s little black book of game day strategies. The Iranian Oil Bourse will go toe to toe and compete for global prominence with NYMEX in New York and the International Petroleum Exchange in London. Oil trading on these exchanges is done in US Dollar terms. That is why when we hear a quote given for Oil it is always basis the US Dollar. Oil is the lifeblood of the global economy, the US Dollar is the global reserve currency and Oil is quoted in US Dollar terms. A simple 1-2-3 argument.

But this simple 1-2-3 argument may be about to come under attack. A successful start-up of trading operations on this Bourse could lead to an erosion of the US Dollar. Hence this Bourse is a de facto weapon. A weapon so ferocious, that has the ability to undermine the entire US economy, and topple the US Dollar from its lofty perch. After all, why would Oil importing nations need to keep as many US Dollars in reserve if they can purchase Oil in Euros? The ramifications of a weakened US Dollar are serious. Global purchasers of US debt instruments may begin to shy away from a weaker currency in favor of Euro denominated debt instruments. This would place upward pressure on US interest rates and the serious imbalance of the US economy would be laid bare for all to see (as if we don’t already see it). After all, the US has no choice but to keep foreign investors interested in buying US debt. Management of the trade deficit and budget deficit depends on it. The housing market would surely collapse under the weight of higher interest rates. With mortgage rates now above 6% we are already seeing the signs of weakness of the housing market. Now imagine mortgage rates at 8% or even 9%. Given this scenario, it should come as little surprise that China recently moved all of a sudden to re-position its Renminbi currency away from the US Dollar and instead to a basket of global currencies. The Chinese are definitely not stupid. They have excellent relations with Iran and are well aware of the threat this new Bourse poses. Notice how the Chinese still have not told us the exact makeup of this basket? However, you can bet the Euro figures very prominently in the weighting of this basket.

With Operation Iraqi Freedom seemingly stuck in the mud and going nowhere what is the US to do? Sadly, the answer may be that there is little the US can do. The most powerful military force on the planet may be paralyzed. A simple Bourse – an exchange where Oil is bought and sold – may prove to be the ultimate weapon.

http://www.321energy.com/editorials/meridian/meridian121005.html
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G2099 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Thanks for posting the article
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's About The Petrodollars
It has always been about the petrodollars.

Petrodollar Warfare: Dollars, Euros and the Upcoming Iranian Oil Bourse
by William Clark

http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html

Contemporary warfare has traditionally involved underlying conflicts regarding economics and resources. Today these intertwined conflicts also involve international currencies, and thus increased complexity. Current geopolitical tensions between the United States and Iran extend beyond the publicly stated concerns regarding Iran’s nuclear intentions, and likely include a proposed Iranian “petroeuro” system for oil trade. Similar to the Iraq war, military operations against Iran relate to the macroeconomics of ‘petrodollar recycling’ and the unpublicized but real challenge to U.S. dollar supremacy from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.

It is now obvious the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam’s long-gone WMD program and certainly less to do to do with fighting International terrorism than it has to do with gaining strategic control over Iraq’s hydrocarbon reserves and in doing so maintain the U.S. dollar as the monopoly currency for the critical international oil market. Throughout 2004 information provided by former administration insiders revealed the Bush/Cheney administration entered into office with the intention of toppling Saddam Hussein.<1><2>

. . .

Concerning Iran, recent articles have revealed active Pentagon planning for operations against its suspected nuclear facilities. While the publicly stated reasons for any such overt action will be premised as a consequence of Iran's nuclear ambitions, there are again unspoken macroeconomic drivers underlying the second stage of petrodollar warfare – Iran's upcoming oil bourse. (The word bourse refers to a stock exchange for securities trading, and is derived from the French stock exchange in Paris, the Federation Internationale des Bourses de Valeurs.)

. . .

The proposed Iranian oil bourse signifies that without some sort of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project of U.S. global domination, Tehran’s objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on dollar supremacy in the crucial international oil market.<7>
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G2099 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Thanks for posting the article
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Control of the oil itself was a distraction?
Sorry, Idon't buy it.
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Ha Ha -- OK, Whatever
I'm not selling you anything. : )
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I have said that it was because of the Euro
Edited on Sun Dec-11-05 01:53 PM by Nashyra
From day 1, the msm never paid attention, a quote from posted link "Saddam sealed his fate when he decided to switch to the euro in lat 2000"

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html#p2
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. three-pronged approach: (1) prevent Euros for oil; (2) control who has
access to the oil; and (3) satisfy the likkud branch of the g.o.p. EVERYTHING else really is distraction. We're all aghast there was no exit strategy. THERE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE AN EXIT STRATEGY. Once you go in, you don't come out.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. That's included in "PNAC 101"
and ties the whole sordid story together. If you haven't already done so, please check out the link in my sig line.
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