Would you die for your country?

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

Not me...unless it was truly dire circumstances...I would die for my family, however...

Patriotism and nationalism are for fools...

In case you have forgotten, 58,000 died not to long ago for WHAT? Last I checked, there were communists running the place - but that's OK snce our largest trading partner is China...I guess...

And just about that many died in Korea...just to keep the status quo...


All wars are evil and preventable...Our leadership have no honor whatsoever...

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Would you die to preserve THIS REPUBLIC?

now I have put a different spin on things I know

(in case you missed it, I don't mean in a foreign land btw... but the way it may develop if current trends continue)

Oh and a small edit, there are some wars that are actually necesary (WW II)... now speaking of the current mess in Iraq, it was not

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Fucking A!

You are quoting a hate site. I guess we know who the "masters" are!

[nadinbrzezinski]

Revisionist historians

are just lovely I know

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

17. And what makes it a hate site?

My background - Irish Catholic - believe me, my ancestors have been through the bullshit... and I have learned not hatred, but tolerance...

Actually been over there a few times myself, as well...

[Behind the Aegis]

20. This does....

...The Franklin Dictionary of Hate Sites, page 43!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

42. Actually, Kimmel was disgraced but not allowed

to come to Washington to tell his side of the story...

You find that revisionist?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Strange for Kimmel testified BEFORE Congressional

committes starting in '42, with the final committee meeting in '46. He was present and giving testimony to Congress along side Lt. General Short.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I know the history of WWII

probably better than you...

There were plenty of games between the Japanese Empire and the United States, regarding oil in the far east(as well as other critical resources) Those were the kind of rersouce games that are previous of coming atractions, wiht a continuity to today.

Now tell me honestly, you think WW II did not fit the definion of a JUST WAR? I mean camps and all, in spite of things such as our avoidance of bombing Aushwitz Birkenau.


On edit are yuo willing to die for the Republic? You SITLL have to adress that point

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

24. Sorry I did not address that point ...

Die for the republic? No, sorry - my family only...

It's taken me many years to get to this point - I can still remember when my mother cried when I was watching the Vietnam war news on TV and I told her that I would go if called...

Couldn't understand why she cried...can now...

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. So you would not die to protect the

constution... nice to know that you are not somebody I want besides me on that damn fox hole... and yes I don't think it's a game... been shot at way too many times.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

34. nice atempt at a guilt trip...

shoudl I be in a foxhole with you, I would be fighting to protect both our asses...

As I am sure that you would be...

My point is that neither one of us should be in that foxhole to begin with - read above - all wars are preventable...

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. No, not all wars are preventable

in fact... sad fact, even chimpanzees go to war... may even be hard wired into the genetic code... but that is neither here nor there... suffice to say not all wars are preventable. Vietnam, probably was, Iraq, definitely... 1898, probably, 1812 no, 1941, no... 1917 debatable, all the banana expedition in Cental America, probably, The indian wars, some yes, some no, the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, definitely not... the Mexican American war, debatable... and that is just the American record

And it was not an attempt at a guilt trip... for it may very well come to that... after all we are in the midst of a lovely COLD civil war... and it may not take much for this lovely COLD Civil War to go hot.

[Hamlette]

95. family and country are one in a moral war. . .

stopping Hitler in Europe protected us from living under him here. As a catholic maybe your family would have been safe but don't count on it.

I'd fight in a moral war. Protecting my country so that my family had a safe place to live.

You'd just look the other way as millions of jew et al were killed? Yikes. Hardly a moral position.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

45. And how, why, do you know thehistory of WWII

better than me?

Just asking...

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Academic Degree

and the fact that you did not know that both Kimmel AND Short testified before Congress between '42 and '46 is quite telling

On edit, here is the Congressional Record, happy readying... oh this is called a primary source by the way

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/congress/part_0.html

[Jim Sagle]

92. Just about anyone on this site knows it better than you.

[Bake]

103. Probably just a grammatical mistake ...

"Better than me" should be "better than I."

Sloppy grammar, sloppy history, I'm just sayin' .... and it's a total guess on my part.

Bake

[Behind the Aegis]

38. So who are our masters?

You have yet to answer that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I'd better not give him any ideas

suffice it to say... the book was very popular in Imperial Russia round oh 1890s... and is currently a top seller in certain cyrcles.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. Yup!

Seems to be all too common. Who would have thought that just a scant 60 years after the horror in Europe, we would start to see it re-emerge!

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Long enogh for most to forget

hell denial started as early as 1947...

[Behind the Aegis]

48. It will just get worse.

This thread has lasted over an hour. How many echo his position? How many times do we have to hear that the illegal war in Iraq was for Israel? How 9-11 was a Mossad operation? How Jewish senators are more loyal to Israel than the US? This is from a progressive site?!

I just wonder how many Jews will have to have cold splash in the face to realize, left or right, we are hated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. no, no the proper question is

how many Jews in the US are even aware of what is going on?

By the way, I blame idiots on the right, if this failed, Jews were set for the fall... if this madness worked, again for the fall

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Amen!!

The ones (Jews) on the right were so fucking short-sighted! They thought that the right actually cared about Israel...NOT! Then there is the left, who accept rabid hate of Israel without question. The right was clever though...set the PNAC up...make them visible...make sure that Jews are most visible! Then, you have your scapegoat!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. I have one thank you

but you do know what book I am talking about? IT IS a top seller in certain circles, even in the ever so enlightenened US... and white supremacists love it... you even know which one I am talking about? Ok will fess up, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion... this piece of crap was produced by the Russian Police, on the orders of the Tsar, but I am sure you knew that

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

50. Oh sorry - I think that president Eisenhower spelled that our for us when

he left office...In other words, big money dude...please tell me that you are not that naive...

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Big money?

Who is "big money?!"

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

62. Ok - that would be corporate America...as

Smedley Butler spelled out...actually Eisenhower's speech gave birth to the term "military industrial complex" - but I am sure that you knew that already...

your game playing is rather tiresome...good night...

[Behind the Aegis]

63. awww...did I offend?

Was I offensive as your links?!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

66. HaHa - snce you asked

more so...

see you on down the road...

[Behind the Aegis]

67. coolio!

Make sure you stop by Stormfront...they will have more cites for you!

On edit: you may be seeing my down the road, but it won't be from the cattle car!

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. So did General butler

so? Look there are some wars taht have to be fought, and WW II was one of them... not because it started that way... but ironically it is the closest modern war to meet the just cause standard. Also WW II saw a change in the US... by the way, nobdy made a profit out of that war, thanks to the Trumman Act, you should research that... now after wards, well Ike had a point, he also mentioned a certain crew of delusional Texans who form the core of the modern Neo Conservative movement, but that is neither here or there.

[Selatius]

91. I think Butler was talking about some of the wars in Latin America

and other parts of the world.

`I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. `I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. `War is a racket.' – General Smedley Butler, former U.S. Marine Commandant, `Common Sense' in November 1935.

http://www.williambowles.info/guests/marines.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Oh Trust me I KNOW what he was talking about

and why... wrong man to aproach by the fascist for the coup in the 1930s... but even thuogh the Bannanaa fruit Company made money, nonthing like what came later, NOTHING, and WW II there were no profits, and that was Trumman's doing

[thefloyd]

2. Yes

I would.

[murielm99]

8. So would I. nt

[stevietheman]

3. It seems to me that anyone fighting today is...

fighting for big corporate interests rather than for our republic. In that sense, I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would fight for corporate greed. I would rather see the corporations destroyed than even consider fighting. Eff 'em.

[Abelman]

4. Yeah

You know, in like the Revolutionary War maybe.

[alfred e bush]

6. the mob is right

dont fight for strangers....if it aint blood....it aint worth it

[Behind the Aegis]

7. would you?

What is 6 million of your kind were about to be killed?! Would you die then?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Wow! Two Jew hating sites in one thread!

What a fucking treat!

From the link's main site that you provided:

"We understand that the Jew is the literal child of Satan and is the natural enemy of the White race, the Children of G-d."

Good show!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

21. I find it amazing that my question to you

asking for proof of 6,000,000 deaths in response to evidence presented by the Red Cross would result in an accusation of Anti-Semitism...really, that is a stretch...

paranoia is bad for you...

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. post bellow gives you a lint to

The ICRC... otherwise known as the International Red Cross... heard of them? They give a number of six million

In fact, here you go

http://www.redcross.org/services/intl/holotrace/questions.html

[rpannier]

70. Yep 6000000

Good job. I congratulate you. Thank you for not allowing ignorance to win out.

[Behind the Aegis]

71. You are in agreement?

Yes?

This is not one of those sarcastic posts, is it?

[rpannier]

73. It wasn't sarcastic. I agree with the 6000000 numbers

I cannot abide Holocaust deniers. I consider them to be the most dangerous people on this planet, because they deny one of the worst human catastrophes in mankinds history took place. I live about 80 km from the most oppressive government on this planet today -- North Korea. The hardships of the people and brutal repression that goes on there is just hard to describe. Yet there are people who will deny it.
You have to constantly shine the light on these atrocities otherwise they will just go on.

BTW I went to that link that guy gave it was stomach turning.

[Behind the Aegis]

75. But...but...

He is not a Holocaust denier! He is just a revisionist.

Sixty years have passed. Almost all Holocaust survivors have died. We will see the headline "THE LAST HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR DEAD." It is when that happens that the deniers and revisionists will 'step up' their attacks. Teach your children and friends now what horrors were visited upon Jews, and gays, and Romani, and Catholics, and...the list is too fucking long! Teach them now! Let them be the voice for the dead, because soon, it will be only be them that trumpet the truth!

[rpannier]

76. Revisionists are no better than deniers

Revisionists like to attempt to obfuscate the truth by claiming the numbers of dead are highly inflated. Look at people like Mona Charon during the Bosnia-Hercegovinia conflict. She claimed that the killing of 20,000 Muslim Bosnians was not true, that the numbers were "Way too high.". The number turned out to be about 18,700 and her answer was "See, it was inflated." She acted like 18,700 was no big deal.
In many ways revisionists are much more dangerous. A person who denies the Holocaust took place, or that Pol Pot didn't massacre thousands of people or that Kim Jeong-il isn't a brutal tyrant are laughed at as being ignorant by most people. However, a revisionist gets more credibility from the masses because they will say, it couldn't have been as many as that. Then they throw out wild and unsubstantiaited numbers that seem reasonable. They'll say, "Pol Pot couldn't have murdered 25% of the Cambodian populace. That number is way too high. That would mean that he killed 5,000,000 people people." or they'll say, "6,000,000 Jews? No way. There's no way the Nazi's could have disposed of all those bodies. They didn't have the capability to cremate and/or bury that many. It was more like 1,000,000." And people more readily buy that ignorant arguement.

[Behind the Aegis]

77. Purist!

"Look at people like Mona Charon during the Bosnia-Hercegovinia conflict. She claimed that the killing of 20,000 Muslim Bosnians was not true, that the numbers were "Way too high.". The number turned out to be about 18,700 and her answer was "See, it was inflated." She acted like 18,700 was no big deal."

But can't you see, that it is NOT true?! :sarcasm:

The number turned out to be less, and that makes it better? I think you and I know that is not true. And, is that number true? Does it matter? Should it matter?! Somehow I doubt all those "ragheads' were enemies of the state? Even if they were, did their families and friends deserve to die?! You and I both know the answer is "FUCK NO!"

Does the Palest ian child deserve to die in an attack on a terrorist leader? NO! Does a vibrant, handsome 17-YO deserve to die in a Netyana mall? NO! We know this! Why don't our leaders!!!!?!

The deniers are not our real problem, the "revisionists" are!

I am called a reactionist and other things...(like I care...I am a faggot, kike, pagan, feminist), but I fear that we (Jews) will see ourselves in another battle. The thing is, since I am queer, I will have a double "mark" on me, which I will proudly wear! I will not go quietly! I will not go quietly as a Jew, a pagan, or gay!

[Behind the Aegis]

23. And I find that you failing to read the other post...

...from the Red Cross says 6 million!

Jew-hating is bad for you!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

30. I don't 'jew-bait'

damn, you just keep on wanting to call me an anti-Semite, don't you...

Anyways, thanks for the discourse and discussion - I am truly interested in learning the truth whenever I can...

Getting back to my original point - my family comes first and foremost, ahead of my nation and religion...

For my family I would sacrifice myself, for the others I would need a ton of convincing...

[Behind the Aegis]

31. You don't?!

You have posted TWO fucking anti-Semitic (Judeophobic) sites as proof! I guess I should be allowed to use Klan sites and David Duke as a moral compass! :sarcasm:

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

40. Actually, if I have done that...

it was out of ignorance...and secondary to my original post which clearly states...

That I would die for my family - not for my country...

I have too much skepticism built up over the years...

And actually I will follow up on the other threads provided...

[Behind the Aegis]

44. Then why provide Jew hating sites as proof...

...of ANYTHING?!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

55. Are they jew-hating sites?

I had no idea...

Are you on some kind of race-or-religion bating mission here?

Get back to my original post, where I state that I would die for my family, not for ANY country unless I was convinced that it was forthright...

Peace brother, not everybody is out to get you...

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Sources

If you are going to claim something, you should at least explore where your information is coming from! I have explained why they are Jew hating sources, but that doesn't seem to bother you. Why is that?!

The second site you quoted calls Jews the "sons of Satan." You don't see a problem with that?!

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. If yuo want to learn the truth start with some BASIC

History of WW II and the Holocaust. insofar as this is concerned. You may want to start with the Red Cross site.

[Solly Mack]

18. From the OFFICIAL Red Cross site - 6 million Jews

http://www.redcross.org/services/intl/holotrace/questions.html

"It is well known that the Nazis and their collaborators imprisoned or killed more than 11 million people including 6 million Jews who were especially targeted for extermination. Polish Catholics, clergy, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Ukrainians, Russian soldiers, homosexuals, and the disabled were also targets for forced labor, medical experiments, and murder.


Not sure where you got the "significantly less" but you didn't get it from the Red Cross...

[Behind the Aegis]

26. I'll tell you!

This is where he (the OP) got it, from a site that proclaims "We understand that the Jew is the literal child of Satan and is the natural enemy of the White race, the Children of G-d."

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You might want to edit that to

I'll tell you where HE got it.. to avoid misunderstandings

;-)

[Behind the Aegis]

29. Thanks for the heads up.

And they wonder why some Jews here at DU are so quick on the draw!

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Oh you welcome, was about to go to bed

but hey... would miss all the ahem, "entertainment."

[Solly Mack]

35. Oh, damn - that's just a lovely statement

I can't abide Holocaust denial. I just can't. It happened. Nothing is gained by pretending it didn't.

People have varying opinions on Palestine/Israel, etc - but denying the Holocaust does nothing to further the cause of a true peace between Palestine and Israel. I don't plan on getting into a debate over that issue - but dammit - Peace can't come from lies. It just doesn't work that way. If either side lies, then peace is defeated - and I seek peace.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. Agree to disagree

You and I may not see eye to eye on I/P (I don't ever recall a conversation between us), but I am glad to know that you don't support this bullshit!

[lonestarnot]

81. Send the twins biatch!

[Solly Mack]

88. What twins? and exactly who is a bitch?

[lonestarnot]

94. bushitler twins both biatches and bushitler is a biatch, cheney is a

biatch! rummy is a biatch, condi is a biatch, rover is a biatch, all biatches!

[Solly Mack]

97. Ah - gotcha. Yes, they should go to Iraq since it's such a good thing

for the country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I personally know of fifty of my closest relatives

they are now ashes in Treblynka, are we into revisionist history and holocast denial?

By the way... the numbers range from five milion to seven million Jews, six million is the standard accepted average

The numbber of gentiles is seven to nine million, and the accepted number in total is... 14 million victims. Oh and one out of three civilian casualties during WW II wa a a Jew.

Them are the facts

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

56. I am sorry to hear of your losses...

unlike our current chimp-in chief, I am quite willing to admit when I am wrong...

Why is it necesary for some countries to make it illegal to merely refute the 6,000,000 number?

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. It is ilegal in Gernamy

in fact any fascist party or represenation of the Nazi symbols are ilegal in germay. As I said, Holocaust Denial has been alive and well since 1947... read plenty of those, some more "scientific" than others... but they have been around since '47... and antisemitism is re-emerging with a vengeantce in Europe and in the United States. Also the US has a healthy number of White Supremacists whose cottage industry is holocaust denial... Now I tend to look at the biger picture and tend to include all victims, Jews and Gentiles, for all were victims, and tne number is quite horrible at 13-14 million.

[fasttense]

68. So where did all those missing jewish people go? Was it the rapture?

[rpannier]

72. I went to the homepage of the link you gave. I found these small tidbits

We understand that the Jew is the literal child of Satan and is the natural enemy of the White race, the Children of God.
It is through continued disobedience to His Life-Law, that the White Race has sunk into the quagmire, that we find ourselves perilously captive to today. As far as our survival and of our natural ruling status is concerned, we have indeed become the tail and the tail has most certainly become the head, as promised by YHVH God the Father, written in Deuteronomy chapter 28, His Holy Word.

[undergroundpanther]

10. I would die

Fighting fascism, tyranny or some other authoritarianism..Because I cannot live under such abusive pathological regimes.

[obxhead]

11. I would have to believe my payment was worth the asking price.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. If I had to do any such thing

it would be to truly protect the Constitution against rightwing fascism to protect my freedoms and future generations of freedoms as liberals and good citizen's have done before me. Not illegal greedy oil wars.

[michreject]

16. Faced the possibility

Went into the Army in early 71, got out in late 72. Spent a year in Nam.

I think we have the best country on the planet but the current administration scares the piss outta me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Welcome home soldier

and welcome to DU

[michreject]

59. Thanks

Glad to be here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. glad to have you

[Peter Frank]

51. Our Leadership is a bridge to the 1980's...

Our "Leader" was selected & groomed by Cheney & other PNAC members.

[kick_them_hard]

60. Yes n/t

[fasttense]

69. I would die for my country, if I thought the purpose was

honorable and just.

[Hubert Flottz]

74. No...I'd go AWOL like Bush did and then I'd become pResident

and live happily ever after, on my gubmint pension!

[aPOSITIVEwin]

78. Great question!

My answer is YES, I WOULD die for my country. I am very proud to be an American!

[Vickers]

104. Go sign up, patriot. Or is it just talk?

:shrug:

To hear Wee Cowboy and the rest of them cowards talk, you would think that our very way of life is on the line.

THEY NEED YOUR HELP!!! :patriot:

[cmd]

79. Yes, if I believed in the cause

I get rather passionate about things that I believe in. I've been through strikes where I have put my health in jeopardy and still have problems resulting from my passion. I would do it again. Logic tells me that if I care about my future health, I should never attend another protest or walk another picket line - but I will.

[cantstandbush]

80. Hell no!! Would Bush, Cheney, Condi, Wolfowitz, Feith etc? n/t

[fishnfla]

82. Yes, for a just cause and defense of our country

yes

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

83. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools."

Schopenhauer had it right.

People who talk about "dying for their country" are really talking about killing for their country.

[Deja Q]

84. If the country was worth fighting for, in a heartbeat.

And, yeah, our veterans who died in wars pertaining to communism (Vietnam, Korea, et al) should be in fuming anger. corporate america supports trading with the enemy (which is treason), and they support *. They also supported EVERY president since Nixon (and there ain't no 8 year reprieve...), the guy who opened the door to the nation and will probably be revered rather than disdained the way he ought to be...

I will not die for corporate execs. They are amoral when not immoral. And I will not die for their supporters. They take and take and take and not give. They have far more they feel is worth defending so they should go enlist themselves.

Make America a place worth fighting for again and I'll do it. Instantly. But as long as the transition to an overpriced 3rd world fascist state continues, forget it.

[Dances with Cats]

85. No way, I might die for you if we were fighting side by side

but die for The Divided States of Embarrassment? no way....

[ComerPerro]

86. Not THIS country, the one that Bush has made

WWII, then yes.

That's more like dying for humanity than just for this country.

But I wouldn't even cross the street to help Bush.

[mmonk]

87. In the past, yes

Not now however. While we've done vile things in the past, the people here seemed to matter in some of the legislation and laws. Now, neither the laws being enacted nor the foreign policy of aggressive domination seem to be about us, the citizen.

[Selatius]

89. I am more than willing to die for family and friends, not the damn gov't

It is a corrupt organization. In many ways, it behaves the same as the mafia. Corporatism dominates Capitol Hill. It's become too much about money and not enough about ordinary people. We've got lobbyists buying and selling the votes of people who should be representing the interests of people, not the corporations or any major special interest with a large bankroll. This is like the Late Roman Republic.

[Kansas Wyatt]

90. 'Nobody ever won a God-damned war by dying for his country.'

As soon as our Corporate Government starts sending CORPORATIONS to die for our country. On second thought, nope. Our country will have to return to a Government of, by, and for the People, instead of a Government of, by, and for Corporations, first.

[barb162]

96. No, period

[bertha katzenengel]

98. If it came to the need for civilians to take up arms against an invader,

of course I would.

And sometimes I think I'd die just for everyone to learn how to use ellipses properly.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

99. Would you kill women, children, civilians for your country?

Soldiers do that..a lot. Spare me the "soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal orders" crap. Artillerymen and bomberdiers are given coordinates and are required to pull the lanyard or release the bombs on the targets. The average GI doesn't have the luxury of being allowed to pick his targets. If the boss says shoot, you shoot.

There's a lot of bombastic nonsense about "dying for your country" being spouted, but little is said about killing for something as nebulous and meaningless as "country".

[DaveColorado]

100. No

[newspeak]

101. I am willing to die for the ideals that

our country was founded upon--for the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. I am willing to die to see others survive. At the beginning, Hitler systematically rid himself of those with conscience. All priests and nuns who were into social and political activity, he rounded up. All those German dissidents who went against his policies, he murdered. They were the first to go, along with those who were in the mental sanitariums. Jehovah Witnesses, Gypsies, Slavs and Jews were put into camps or murdered. And while he was enacting his heinous policies, there were companies in this country gladly doing business with him. Did they believe in his ideals or were they just money hungry sociopaths? I believe that some of the families of these companies actually believed in Hitler's ideals and helped him attain power in Germany. My friend wears a tattoo on her wrist from a German camp in Greece. She's Greek, not Jewish, and she was put in the camp when she was a child. Many people suffered from Hitler, Franco and Mussolini's rule. Those who fought and died so that others could survive deserve our gratitude. The Elders of Zion is a fake, a fraud!!! There are some Zionists who back these neocons, and would murder other Jewish people for a political end. There are Muslim, Jewish, Christian zealots whose very ideals cause so much destruction of others. So are we all to be good Germans? As one young student in my history class said, "how could the German people allow Hitler to do such a terrible thing?" The German people paid for Hitler's (and his thugs) actions. And, through generations, most of the German people have felt shame for the actions that took place in WWII. The German people may feel shame, but I doubt the US companies that helped put him into power feel shame. It's just business as usual.

[newspeak]

102. one other thing

my daughter is in the military and she told me, I took my oath mainly to protect the Constitution of the United States not to the Commander-in-Chief. I bet there are others in the military who believe in protecting the Constitution and they are not happy about what is going on right now with this administration.

[insanity]

105. Yes

I'll fight to the death for my vison of America.

[RagingInMiami]

106. If we were invaded by a foreign power

I would become an "insurgent".

[mitchum]

107. No

[PaganPreacher]

108. Yes.

For my country.
For my clan.
For my beliefs.
For the freedom of my brothers and my sisters.


Because freedom isn't free.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[newspeak]

109. I believe that some do not understand

the gravity of the situation. What is the concept of the New World Order? I believe it is the taking over by corporate entities, where the will of the people will be secondary. That corporate interest will be over human interest--the health, welfare of the people will be moot over the bottom line. It is not about free enterprise, when I was younger, consumer wise, I saw more choice at the stores than I do now. It's like Coke and Pepsi, pretty soon we'll only have Coke or Pepsi, or Coke will own Pepsi. It is about barbaric capitalism controlling our choices, controlling our environment, controlling the will of the people. It is not about nationalism, because all people in the world are affected. Someone on the board once said, there is no place where you can go or hide if control is taken from the people. It will be like being "captive" consumers, and that is what they think of us anyway, if we are not consuming for them what good are we? The water your children drink, the air your children breathe, the food your children eat is all affected by policies made by our government and other governments who are largely influenced by multi-national corporations. And, as we know, when corporations and government come together against the will of the people, it is fascism. The United States of America, historically, cannot be said to be perfect, but our ideals, the ideals of the people, what our country was founded upon, is worth fighting for. Because if America falls, or least the ideals that make us American, then we become just another despotic dictatorship, like any other in the world. We become what we fear the most. The light will be extinguished and I believe so goes the world.