Give me just one reason why we should stay in Iraq.

[Tyler Durden]

I can't think of one. Not one.

The Shiites don't want us: we're infidels, and we think women aren't cattle.

The Sunis don't want us: they NEVER wanted us.

The Kurds don't NEED us: they've got their own army and CAN'T WAIT to become our "Islamic Israel" and play puppy when we yell "SPEAK!"

We can't stop the civil war: It's already in progress.

We really aren't making money on this anymore: it's become the world's biggest money pit, and we can't ever fill it; there's no bottom.

We are bogged down in a country that doesn't want us there, where barbarism is the order of the day and "Honor Killings" of innocent women happen daily. Where even our "allies" want us to go home.

The only reason we are there is the ego of BUSH, CHENEY, RUMSFELDT and all of their evil little minions.

I'm the dumbest of all here: I'm preaching to the choir.

[ET Awful]

1. Just think of all the nice hand blown glass animals we could make with

all that sand :P

[DKStreet]

2. I'll take "we need the oil" for 243 billion...

;)

[Tyler Durden]

9. 60% of imported oil comes from.....

CANADA. Lose those fucking SUV's et al and we got that dicked.

[okieinpain]

3. you (as in we) fucked it up.... even if you didn't vote for bush, every

dumb thing he has done there was done in our name. you and everybody else on this board knows that we have a lot of fixing to there. the sad thing is it's not going to happen while bush is in office.

[Tyler Durden]

7. "We" can't "fix" it.

In order to fix anything, you need at least the grudging cooperation of SOMEBODY, and we ain't gettin' it.

No offense, but that argument sounds like Melvin Laird trying to defend "Vietnamization," and we all know where THAT went.

[okieinpain]

10. well we better hope that it can be fixed because unlike vietnam

this isn't a political problem, this mess is all religion. and all you have to do is look at the nuts we have in this country and imagine them with all of the automatic weapons and artillery shells they can get their little hands on.

and now the guy in iran is opening telling the Israeli's and US to fuck themselves. dude I understand were you're coming from, I have a child in the reserves, and two boys 20 and 18. I don't won't anywhere near iraq, hell I'd volunteer before I would want any of my kids to go over there. But like it or not we dumb fucking americans have open pandora's box baby, the shit is loose, and the only thing that's keeping that place from going up in flames, smoke and blood is the US troops that are there.

I think we can do some big time withdrawals, but we will have to keep some people there, I don't like all of the shit with them building bases, that's the last fucking thing we need to do there. instead of training those people in iraq they need to start shipping them and there families out of the country for training and we need to pay for it. allow their families to stay out of the country for 3 to 5 years that way police and soldiers won't have to worry about their families being attacked.

I understand were you and everybody else around here says get out now. and believe me my man I'm no fucking war hawk, chicken hawk, or bad ass. But I try and call shit honestly, and that means I have to say we just can't pull out now. Sorry, wish we could but it's our mess.

[Tyler Durden]

15. I wish I could agree, but I don't.

We stay or leave, they'll still have their religious civil war. The only choice we're going to get is how many of our children die over there too. Mark Twain once orated thusly, explaining his abhorance of war and warfare:

"They have an answer for that: 'WE ARE IN IT...we CANNOT retire, we MUST fight it out. We CANNOT retire, without dishonor!'
"Why even a BURGLAR couldn't have said it better."

I am Honorably Discharged Hospital Corpman First Class "Doc" Johnson, USMC Field Medic and chopper rider. The Zoomies (Jet Jockies) always said that if you fly long enough, you'll screw the pooch.

We done Screwed the Pooch and you can't unscrew the pooch.

"Some things happen that are so terrible, the only solution is to be somewhere else when they happen." (Larry Niven) We can't stop the civil war, because it's already in progress, and we can't redeem our honor, for there is none left to redeem. And I will not have my 20 year old and 17 year old sons go to war. EVER. FOR ANYONE OR ANY REASON.

[okieinpain]

20. well that's friggin great for the innocent iraqi's. we fuck up then go

home and make snow men.

[Ezlivin]

4. Sgt. Lopez lost a contact lens

And those are a bitch to find.

We won't come home until the job is finished!

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. You mention only the reasons that the government wants you to think

about. If you consider the influence of oil and Israel, staying in Iraq makes perfect sense.

[Tyler Durden]

8. Ask me if I give two s..ts for Oil or Israel.

I'm no anti-Semite, but Israel EXPORTS arms. If they want to fight another war, I figure they can do it on their own by now.

As for OIL, oil is the biggest Straw Man to hit the pike. I won't even go there, but if you want to see some neat non-oil transport, go to www.theaircar.com. We get more than 60% of our imported oil from (drum roll, please...) CANADA. We ain't getting ONE DROP of oil from Iraq.

Next category, please.

[tabasco]

6. So that Halliburton & other corporatins can get lots of ...

taxpayer money.

Enriching the super-rich. That is the reason the US invaded Iraq.

The US is losing money but the super-rich are raking it in.

There never was another reason.

[0rganism]

11. To ensure a continued Imperial presence in the Middle East

The American Empire is about to lose its military bases in Saudi Arabia.

Our Emperor, the mighty Gaius Georgius Walker Bushius, has decided to replace them with bases in Iraq.

[Tyler Durden]

16. So what's wrong with "Kurdistan?"

There WILL be a Kurdistan, because they want it and can back it up with %50,000-100,000 trained and equipped Peshmerga. And THEY LOVE US, and they have the oil city of Kirkuk. So if we have to have a base, go there.

[0rganism]

19. Not "a" base, but a dozen bases

The Kurdish region of Iraq is more mountainous than central Iraq, and much less convenient to access from the major port city (Basrah). Furthermore, locating bases in proto-Kurdistan is a direct affront to Turkey.

[ucmike]

12. we broke it, we bought it,

i know there are lots of reasons to get out, mostly the lives of american soldiers, but i can't help but feel that we made an awful fucking mess out of the place. The collective American "We" were responsible, by not holding our govt responsible. even those of us who are working against that same govt. have some culpability in that this happened in our names and using our resources. I feel we are obligated to leaving the iraqis with some chance, and that means continuing to pay the price.

i fear that pulling out will leave a giant vacuum that may send the entire region into absolute chaos as the disorder we have unleashed spreads and is taken advantage of by others. i know that the bush admin is using versions of this as justification (ie: preventing civil war), but there is some validity to the argument. (the fact that they arrogantly set the process in motion doesn't mitigate the truth of it)

that said, i don't think the people responsible for the mess are anywhere near qualified to fix it in a manner that is even vaguely fair to the iraqis. i guess fairness is at the heart of my feelings- we fucked up their country to the benefit of a handful of corporations and individuals and i don't see where a quick and complete withdrawal helps them, or us. i also feel that if we leave it will descend into an afghanistan-style refuge for terrorists. i know that sounds like another bushco talking point. the difference is that they are hoping for it, i'm hoping against it.

what we need to do is to fix our leadership, get the rest of the world involved in a collabrative effort to stabilize the country and leave the iraqis with a basic template to take care of themselves minus the american neocon agenda. our next set of leaders will have to eat some crow, admit we cooked up a disaster and go knocking on doors getting some help from our neighbors.

i don't see it happening. i don't beleive that most americans really give a shit. many of us are ignorant to the larger picture. too many are caught up in the manufactured fever surrounding a good old fashioned american style ass kicking on some backward brown fucks in the desert somewhere. the same leaders who so badly screwed over the iraqis are doing the same to americans, instead of calling them terrorists they call them "our base". its more subtle, less violent, but just as insidious.

i fear we broke it too badly and it will take a generations to fix. the world will suffer the consequences until that happens.

[Xenotime]

13. There is no reason...

we need to get out... this is greatest loss this country has every seen.

[dkofos]

14. You are right

There are no valid reasons to stay.
They don't need our help rebuilding, just our money.
The country is in civil war and no amount of US troops will stop them.

Way past time to get out. COMPLETELY

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. The only reason they want to stay is to cover their sorry asses.

The politicians who engineered the fiasco and the generals who bungled it. It's now "Peace with honor" disguised as "stay the course", "provide stability", "we broke it we bought it", and all the other excuses to provide cover for the neocons/neolibs who backed an arrogant attempt at neocolonialism.

[Quixote1818]

18. Well we are screwed no matter what

If we pull out then the Insurgency will likely escalate the war into something much worse than now and a full fledged Civil War will take place and then Iran and Saudi Arabia will get involved.

If we stay we will hold some order but will continue getting attacked until hell freezes over and Iraq will probably slowely get worse.

So we might as well get out now but then if all hell breaks lose then Dems will likely be blamed for the loss. The right thing to do however is start getting out somehow and put lives above politics.