'the democrats don't have a plan for victory'

[mopaul]

sick of hearing this mantra from the hypnotized warpig republicans. you can't have a victory over there, sorry, there'll never be victory. impossible. pack it in, haul out, cut and run and bring em home to protect us from bush's future terror attacks.

[Enraged_Ape]

1. Gen. MacArthur didn't have a plan for victory in the Philippines either

Given that he did not receive the supplies and back-up he needed to fight effectively.

So he did the sensible thing: He fucking BAILED! He didn't return until he had what he needed.

Only a fool values "saving face" over saving one's ass. But it's an insane person who does the same thing over and over and over and expects a different result.

[HawkerHurricane]

7. Off Topic: MacArther

Mac did have the supplies he needed, but allowed them to be captured by the Japanese.
He was caught with his air force on the ground 12 hours AFTER Pearl Harbor.
His incompetence cost us a great deal... and the only reason he didn't share the docket with Adm. Kimmel and LGen Short is that (drum roll) he was the darling of the Republican Party for ordering the bayoneting the 'Bonus Marchers' (WW1 Veterans looking to collect the money promised them by Congress) if they refused to disperse.

[Enraged_Ape]

10. Thanks for that

I did not know that stuff. That's interesting. Still, Mac couldn't have been too incompetent if he knew when to LEAVE--unlike the stupid, insane dipshit in charge of this war.

My wife's great uncle was a secretary for both MacArthur and Eisenhower. He liked Ike much better.

[HawkerHurricane]

13. He was ordered to go...

and ran a incredible PR campaign while in PI.

Good news always mentioned him by name...
"General MacAurther's troops retook <Philipine Town name>"

Bad news always mentioned the local commander, especially General Wainright...
"Troops under General Wainright lost control of <Philipine Town name>"

Ask the Australians how great MacAurther was... then stand back.

Mac also took bribes from the Philipine Government... alienated our allies... annoyed the other service chiefs... I could go on.

His actions before the Korean War both caused the conflict and his actions during the war expanded it.

The man was not a total incompetent... Inchon was brilliant, his willingness to listen to his Chief of Air Units (General Kenney) after the Philipine debalacle was good... but he was inconsistant at best.

Ike was a much better political leader, and easily his equal as a field commander... and NOT inconsistant.

OK, pet peave, rant over.

[ixion]

2. yeah, and of course, the rethug 'strategy' of

careening toward the cliff at mach 5 while waving flags and speaking in tongues is such a fantastic plan. :eyes:

[liberal N proud]

3. Why is it the responsibility of the "Democrats" to get us out of Iraq?

They did not start this war, They are not the controlling party.

Many Democrats have presented plans, only to be smeared and thrown down by the repuke cabal.

[Fleshdancer]

4. even if that were true....

it wouldn't cancel out the current failures of the neocon plan. Talk about a strawman argument for continuing this quagmire. :eyes:

[emulatorloo]

5. haven't you heard, "the democrats are in disarray"

PS sure we can have "victory" in iraq.

EXAMPLE -declare "victory" and get the hell out.

[mopaul]

6. 'victory with honor'? like in nam? victory without honor? or just honor

just doing the honorable thing and leaving seems like the best plan to me.

[acmavm]

8. Because no one does. There will be NO VICTORY for anyone except

the militant Shi'ites.

[ComerPerro]

9. Plus, I think a withdrawal plan is a plan for victory

Right?

What did Murtha want? He wanted a timetable for milestones and for gradual troop withdrawal. The goal, I believe, is just like Bush's supposed goal of letting the Iraqis deal with things.

The Democratic plan involves planning, so it gets rejected.

The new talking point (and I can't believe it has become so accepted by the mainstream) is that if we set goals and a timetable for success, it will encourage our enemies.

:wtf:

[tx_dem41]

11. Well....do we have a plan?

that we can all stand behind?

This is a gaping hole in our Party's policymaking at the moment. We better come up with a plan that we all stand behind. November '06 isn't that far away.

[pdxmom]

12. I've heard lots of plans for "victory", or at least solutions to the

situation. They're wanting the Dems to be in lockstep like they are, sticking to one idea, whether it sucks or not.

Individual Dems have all kinds of opinions about what would be best in Iraq. Why isn't that ok? I'm glad that there are numerous opinions on what to do there, as opposed to the Repugs mindmeld, where an obviously failing "plan" is all they can propose and support.

[flaminbats]

14. yes..some call it balancing the budget and paying down the debt

others like imperialism, but that isn't a plan for victory! ;)

[madeline_con]

17. With Imperialism there will be another "crisis" in a decade

that only a Fearless American Leader can make right. :eyes:

[BuyingThyme]

15. How can one argue that

we haven't already lost?

And how can a loss be turned into a victory?

This is kids' stuff.

[librechik]

16. It's like we were all in an airplane and they decided they could fly,

like Superman, so they jumped out dragging us out with them.

Now we're all falling and they're saying "Give me your parachute. I know you brought one."

Sorry, can't save your stupid butt this time. You killed us all, asshole. Nobody can fix it now. Enjoy the flag and the patriotic tunes. It's the only thing you have left.