The Butterfly Effect of a Blow-Job.

[David Zephyr]

It's time for a serious Come-To-Jesus Meeting here at the DemocraticUnderground.Com. It's high time that a lot of us (me included) face the cold hard fact that President Bill Clinton's shabby behavior with an intern while he was President of the United States resulted in the Democrats losing control of the U.S. Senate and in losing even a greater number of seats in the House of Representatives. Most of all, Clinton's misconduct cost Al Gore an even clearer-cut victory against then Texas Governor George W. Bush in 2000.

The fact that our nation's right wing went into melt-down mode, into total hysteria in their utterly hypocritical and malicious campaign to wrongfully drive him from office through the impeachment process still does not change the simple stark truth that Bill Clinton, and Bill Clinton alone, allowed himself and the rest of us within the Democratic Party to be sidetracked from what we should have been doing into defending him.

Bill Clinton should have put the good of the nation and the best interests of his Party first and should have had the grace to have resigned his office and thereby permitted his Vice President, Albert Gore, to step immediately into the Executive role in the White House. A President Gore, with Tipper at his side, would have had all the trappings of the Executive Branch at his disposal and would have carried the 2000 election in a landslide. Indeed, had Gore become President, I doubt that Governor Bush would have run in 2000 because Karl Rove would have known better than to challenge a popular sitting President.

Al and Tipper Gore could have never been assailed for Clinton's tawdry conduct. It would have never stuck. Everyone knew that the Gores had a strong marriage, an enviable union, if there ever was one. And with out the Lewinsky stench hanging over the White House, Gore could have carried the day, perhaps in 50 states, with the nation prosperous and at peace in the world.

Instead, we had a stretched out, blood wrenching two year tug-of-war that exhausted all the political capital of the Democratic Party to defend Bill Clinton's right to be President. We never stopped to ask ourselves that old, but helpful question: Was that the hill that we all really wanted to die on? Well, we won the battle alright, but we sure as hell lost the war, didn't we?

We've lost, at minimum, two precious opportunities to nominate to the Supreme Court. We've lost millions of jobs to outsourcing. We've lost a $3 trillion Social Security surplus to a projected $10 trillion deficit. We've gone from being the champion of human rights in the world's collective eye to becoming military occupiers and the torturers of Abu Graib. We have fallen from the hope and promise of science and medicine to the backward darkness of back-wooded superstition and demagoguery. We have squandered the greatest economy in our nation's history and all the good that we could have done with it. We can't turn back time. It is what it is.

But, fellow Democrats, don’t be down heartened. Don’t despair. We can still all crow alongside Bill Clinton that we did stop the impeachment and removal of a President from office. We did win that one, didn't we? But what a price we have all paid.

The butterfly effect of a blow-job.

[Jim Sagle]

1. Whadda buncha shit.

[TomClash]

26. For once I completely agree with you nt

[B Calm]

58. To the OP, you are not fit to judge him, neither am I, neither were the

house managers. None of us is perfect, and none of us may judge!

There is nothing morally wrong with supporting a flawed man, if there were, you would not be able to support any man, because all, absolutely all of us, are flawed, imperfect in one way or another.

President Clinton was a brave man that wouldn't resign! He stood up and stared into the face of the hypocritical, vindictive, political, smear mongers that tried and failed to undermine democracy.

[madokie]

63. And he won. People love him. best president ever, bar none

[villager]

2. I agree with you, David.

Clinton should've resigned, and let Gore become President. It would've trumped the GOP's machinations, and we'd have a sane person in the Oval Office now.

[David Zephyr]

42. "He should have resigned and let Gore become President"

:thumbsup:

[CatWoman]

44. I agree with 99 percent of your post

but I don't agree with that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

LMAO! GREAT JOB! HANDS DOWN WINNER OF THE FUNNIEST THREAD OF THE DAY!!

Great Satirical Post there!!!!! Very well thought out for sake of humor. Brilliant comedianship! Bravo!! You had me rolling!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[CatWoman]

7. I don't find it humorous

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. You Kidding? It is F'ing Hilarious!!!!!!! I was cracking up at his use

of humor. :rofl:

[mcctatas]

21. I agree, friggin gut-busting satire at it's finest!

too bad I think the humor was unintended...scary thought, blaming the victim, now that is a repub tactic if ever I read one.

[AuntPatsy]

19. Nor do I.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Did You Read It? It is Filled with Hilarious fictional humor! LOL It was

totally creative. I don't know how some people have the ability to come up with such abstract and fantastical concepts. I envy people who can be that creative and humorous. Bravo! :rofl:

[AuntPatsy]

32. I guess its just that I am so sensitive on the subject of that blowjob..

funny to say it that way huh? But I don't know, I appreciate humor just as well as the best of them, but it's so much harder these days...

I'll read it again.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Ummm, We Are Definitely Not On The Same Page Anymore LOL

My posts are pure sarcasm with the intent of ignoring what I consider sheer absurd stupidity at the notion presented in the OP, turning it instead into a pun of sorts that it is so absurd it is hilarious.

[AuntPatsy]

46. Confusious say, I'm way confused...

[CatWoman]

24. I dunno -- maybe I'm either stupid

or watch too many movies.

I recently watched "The Butterfly Effect" and see a definite probability here.

[Burried News]

3. George Bush is the Clinton Legacy. That ought to get things

humming :evilgrin:

[orpupilofnature57]

8. Good one, I hate it but Right On

[CatWoman]

4. Do you see the light???????

:hi:

[xray s]

5. yep

I hear ya'

:popcorn:

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. WTF? Are you kidding?

[mcctatas]

9. "How Fellatio Felled a Nation"

Yep, it was the blow job, mea culpa we got what we deserved:rofl:

[JVS]

10. You're going to get flamed, but you have a good point.

The amount of PR effort and energy put into defending Clinton for impeachment, should have easily been able to get us national healthcare if we hadn't found it necessary to defend him :popcorn:

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. Oh Jesus! What crap!

[JVS]

16. Yeah, because spending the last 2 years of a presidency fighting scandal..

is SOOOOOOOO productive :eyes:

[David Zephyr]

39. Exactly.

That was the point. You got it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

86. You do understand if it hadn't been the bj, it would have been.....

...something else seized on by the rightwing, don't you?

[JVS]

91. That's a lame excuse.

Just because they try to get you doesn't mean they've got you. But I guess if you have to build up the Right-wing into an incredible force of nature rather than holding our own accountable for fuck-ups, that's what you have to do.

[merh]

13. Couldn't agree with you more.

Clinton handed the fundies and the repugs the moral stick they have been using for years to beat us up with.

He knew he was being investigated, he knew his every movement was under the microscope, he and Hillary both knew of the "vast right wing conspiracy" out to destroy him and prove he was amoral. And, as he admitted in his book and at just about every public appearance he has made since writing the book, he got a blow job in the oval office "because he could". WTF?

Clinton is reponsible for what we have been dealing with for the last 5 years, he gave the fundies, neo-cons the weapon, he made the party impotent.

[nini]

14. I disagree. His behavoir was his and Hillary's business only

A president should be elected and judged on what he offers the country.

The stupidity of the American people will be the legacy of the Clinton era - it falls on the lazy Americans who bought the right wing bullshit that a president's personal life is more important than his policies and acheivements.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. Thank you nt

[orpupilofnature57]

28. Unfortunately it's Kkkarls and the rest of MSM and detractors Business

[nini]

71. AND fortunately the American people got lazy and stupid

There's a lot of blame to go around with how we've failed as a nation.

[merh]

36. In theory that is a wonderful concept, but as we all know from

practical experience and from recent history, that doesn't work. The man lied. Not only that, the man knew all along that he was under scrutiny and that they had been focusing on his indiscretions for years. Did you read his book? He said he became involved with that intern and got the blow job in the oval office because he could. That was his damned explanation. "Because I could."

Christ, he knew he was being watched, he knew the vast right wing was out to smear him and he got a blow job because he could? How fucking stupid is that. He walked into the ambush. Thank God he really wasn't one of our military leaders, can you imagine the condition his forces would be in if they followed him into the enemy's ambush (that he knew about)? But wait, his troops (democratic candidates) did follow him and did lose offices and elections left and right, they were slaghtered.

If that was not the most moronic, thick headed, egotistical blunder of his life, I don't know what is. And because of that act of gratification, (his not hers) the repugs were able to win elections after elections and seize the power they now wield over us, to the detriment of our nation.

(end of rant)

[nini]

60. I stand by my belief the American people are lost and stupid

they fell for the Republican bullshit that this crap matters.

I believe as long as we keep making crap like that more important than foreign policy, economic policies etc.. we're doomed whether or not the president is monogomous.

Either way.. the American people are suffering for putting someone in office that they'd rather have a beer with than someone who actually knows what the hell is going on in the world. Regardless of what anyone felt about what Clinton did the next election should have been on policies and capapabilities when the voters went to the polls. They choice to buy the bullshit... the blame is on them.

[merh]

68. I can't disagree with your statement

"Either way.. the American people are suffering for putting someone in office that they'd rather have a beer with than someone who actually knows what the hell is going on in the world."

But, Clinton made bad policy decisions too. And he is too close to the bushies for my comfort. And Clinton did exactly what they wanted him to do.

[nini]

69. I didn't say he was perfect...no doubt that's not true

but I'd sure would love to see him back instead of Jr.

[merh]

75. OMG - I would take Pat Paulson or Ross Periot over Jr.

I'd take Richard Nixon over the weed any day of the week.

:hi:

[nini]

77. LOL Pat Paulson!!!

ahhhh those were the days.


:-)

[merh]

78. How I miss the Smothers Brothers.

;-)

[orpupilofnature57]

93. I second that, and I hated Trickie

[libnnc]

17. It wasn't the blow job that did it...

It was Clinton's signing the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which gave the people's air waves to the Right Wing media machine.

[Burma Jones]

27. BINGO

you got it........

[NNadir]

18. A nation so priggish as to fall for such a matter would have fallen anyway

Of course, Clinton' behavior, knowing that the right was gunning for him over his weakness for sexual dalliances, was inexcusable. He put himself before his country by not placing himself above reproach. In not doing this, he let us all down.

However I recall the reaction of some of my European friends during the impeachment scandal. Many of them said to me "What is wrong with your country," with total amusement and bewilderment. When they said that, they were not saying "what is wrong with your country," as in "how can you have a President who does such things," so much as in "why does anyone in your country give a fuck about such a trivial matter?"

[JVS]

25. Sour grapes, huh?

The good old "We want a majority of voters, which means we need some of their voters to come over here, but if they were stupid enough to vote for the enemy they aren't worth having so fuck 'em" *** four years later*** "I can't believe they didn't vote for our guy again"

[NNadir]

40. Huh?

[Habibi]

64. I had that reaction from a Russian friend of mine

She informed me that her compatriots thought Americans must be pretty dopey to give a shit about such a thing.

And maybe Clinton should have stepped aside, but what I really wish he'd done was say to the media: "It's none of your fucking business. Next!"

[orpupilofnature57]

20. You turned me on to Wobblies, You tell it like it is,, help Al gore back

[regnaD kciN]

Wow! It even caused time-travel...

It's high time that a lot of us (me included) face the cold hard fact that President Bill Clinton's shabby behavior with an intern while he was President of the United States resulted in the Democrats losing control of the U.S. Senate...

...since the loss of the Senate occurred in 1994, four years before Monicagate (and even, technically speaking, years before the first cigar was used).

:eyes:

[David Zephyr]

38. You are right. We lost the Senate in 1994.

I was born while Truman was President and lived through forty years of the Democrats controling Congress almost the entire time.

You are right, we lost the Senate under Clinton also, but it was two years earlier.

[xray s]

47. The Senate passed Clinton's budget and tax hike in '93...

...then Clinton went to Texas and said the tax hike was too high and blamed the Senate.

That led to Bob Kerrey commenting that Clinton was an unusually good liar.

[Burma Jones]

22. Nonsense

First Off, Gore ran an exceptionally poor campaign. Gore is/was a bad candidate, Clinton's approval ratings rose during the whole Lewinsky deal and remained well above what the Chimp now enjoys. Gore was given a golden opportunity on a silver platter and he blew it. Nader voters also did a hell of a lot more than the Lewinsky scandal to give us our current mess. Gore's Florida Court Challenge, had it been allowed, would still have given the election to the Chimp, where a differently crafted strategy may well have proved successful. Guys like Bob Shrum doomed the Democrats. It was crucial that Clinton stayed in Office and did not let the weasels win, had Clinton resigned, they would have started right in on Gore and would have, eventually, either hounded him out of office or made him a political Eunich. We had to show the slimy scum that their shit wouldn't work.

[orpupilofnature57]

34. we showed weakness, and the effect that Al is a bad Campaigner

is a sign of honesty now.

[cally]

29. Maybe

We all know the righties and the corporate media were trying to find a scandal that would work on Clinton. The impeachment did improve his poll numbers and perhaps the myth of a scandalous Presidency would have stuck even without Lewinsky. Still, Clinton did hand them a huge issue that hurt Gore.

I tend to blame the Democratic insiders who have not learned to fight back and had two Dem Presidential candidates portrayed as less patriotic, strong, and moral than *. We need better strategists and candidates who will fight back.

[spacelady]

30. Well here I go , chiming in: Yes, I was very disappointed that President

Bill Clinton just had to give in to those luscious cherry lips. BUT, and it's a big but, that act was not worthy of the umpty million bucks spent on humiliating him with impeachment--he just shrugged it off and carried on with his sworn duty and left us with a great economy and a budget surplus, jobs galore peace and prosperity. The MOMENT the chimp was "declared" it all went to shit, just follow the money, stocks have been wallowing ever since & everything else just follows.

On edit: Oh, it's the fault of the Clenis, I wish it would
just go down. It's done enough.

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. Well then, the GOP should be very afraid for their party with GWB

since he has done more harm than a BJ with an intern could ever have wrought.

[Gman]

33. Huh?

[Generator]

37. Well Clinton is only to blame

for whatever it cost HIS presidency. What he could have done in those last three years instead of..well YEAH the b.j. could have waited. I read the Starr report and felt sorry for him. That was my reaction. Of course him being impeached was absurd.

But to think it would have been what STOPPED the evil that has latched onto this country seems false to me. Bush is like a historical force. I don't think you can do shoulda wouldas with history. IF the ballots in Florida had been fixed..IF...three thousand IFs down the line. IF Gore had done something differently. IF Nader hadn't run. If Gore had let Clinton campaign for him on and on and on and on. IF someone on the Supreme Court was not a total swine? IF? So many IF's. There is always one someone away from changing history. Not just the one that is the one in power. Bush didn't come from a vacuum anymore than Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin did. He's some reflection of some serious shit this country wants to experience. That's my take on it. It's sad. But yeah..karma comes to call.

[Blue_Roses]

59. I think you're absolutely right

and hit the nail on the head. Woulda, coulda, shoulda's doesn't change the fact that the GOP was hell bent on pushing through their agenda one way or another.

[dsc]

41. A few things

One Gore couldn't have run in 2004 if Clinton had resigned (Gore would have served 2 years and 1 month by 2000) so we still might have lost in 2004.

Second, even if Clinton hadn't done the bj, I think that given 70 million and unlimited power, they would have found something else.

Third, would they have stopped with Clinton? They already were making noises about impeachment of Gore over fundrasing.

Clinton was stupid, no doubt or argument here. But the right wing was determined.

[David Zephyr]

45. We wasted years on one hill, dsc.

I know. I defended him with every fiber in my body. But, as I said, "we won" that battle. Too bad we died on that hill.

[dsc]

50. But had we not won that battle

then would any President ever be safe from that kind of takedown? What good is electing a President if he or she can be Impeached whenever he or she become unpopular enough or the opposition party takes control of the Congress? Would any Democratic President have served a full term under that senario?

[The Wielding Truth]

76. Exactly,my position. The moral Nazi majority was already on the march.

[RagingInMiami]

43. Why are we still talking about Bill Clinton?

It's bad enough that the republicans blame him for everything, but do we have to start blaming him too?

We need to look forward. That is what makes us progressives.

[David Zephyr]

48. Perhaps because Mrs. Bill Clinton will probably be our Party's nominee

And that gives me great pause. He is the elephant still in the living room, isn't he?

[RagingInMiami]

49. I'll be voting against her in the primary

But I will vote for her if she wins the nomination.

[dsc]

54. I don't think she will win

and I am not even sure she will run. I think if she runs she will lose but for the wrong reason. She should lose due to being a bad potential nominee but is likely to lose because she is a woman and many simply won't vote for her just on that alone.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. Give me an effing break!

[gulliver]

52. Amazing, sad, but true. No BJ; no Junior.

Possibly no 9/11. Gore would not have ignored the PDB. Bush would have lost in 2000, and would never have been a candidate again. Strange that so much can hinge on something so trivial.

Other things also caused Dubya to be president too, though. If the Kennedys had not been assassinated, we might not have had Nixon. Probably no Reagan. No Nixon and No Reagan means no Bush 1, Rumsfeld, or Cheney. The cancer started in the 60s.

But it would not have taken hold without Clinton's peccadillo. It might have died of old age before it ever saw the light of day.

Still, there may be a bright side to Bush. He is discrediting everything he stands for. He may just be the instrument of the demise of all of the evil and foolish things he represents.

[Tinksrival]

53. At first look I thought the same but

I have changed my mind. The Right wing machine was already in place and set into high gear the day Clinton took it from Poppy. I didn't pay too much attention to politics till Monica. I thought Bill was doing a good job and life was good. But as a traveler overseas I saw the hunting of Bill Clinton from a different perspective. It was disgusting. If it wasn't Monica it would have been something else. One event that truly did open my eyes was a chance I had this summer to go to the Clinton Library. All the facts, figures, and statistic of what Bill Clinton was able to achieve as president are there in black and white and living color. What that man accomplished with them hounding him is astounding. That record as President Clinton was hard earned should not be diminished. Not by them, not by us! The more I learned the more I cried for my country. I will not let that human (but stupid) indiscretion tarnish what will always be the greatest president of my lifetime, so far........... (Clark 08) ! ;-)

[tabasco]

55. Rape victims are the true culprits !

The republicans have raped our Nation, but we are the culprits for allowing them to do so !!

In a sense, you are correct. Several millions of Americans are complicit in this rape.

The robber barons would have gained control without Clinton's blowjob.
Clinton hastened their power grab, perhaps, but the sheer number of stupid people in this country virtually guaranteed disaster.

Too many people to believe the lies of the robber barons. Too many stupid people. This Nation is headed for the cliff. It is not Clinton's blowjob that is driving us off the cliff.

[omega minimo]

56. Ridickulous

You guys just like talking about blow jobs.

[Redstone]

57. And your point is?

(Besides starting a flamefest?)

Redstone

[undeterred]

61. The Clenis LIVES! I love being called on to face the CLENIS!

and a CLENIS with butterflies, no less!

[OzarkDem]

85. Funny how the Clenis always reappears

when R's run out of ways to defend themselves.

All hail the mighty Clenis!


:rofl:

[mongo]

62. LOL!

Good one!

I thought I'd acidently been re-routed to freeperville for a moment.

[Redstone]

65. Boy, does this sound like a canned Freep Talking-point deal, or what?

"thereby permitted his Vice President, Albert Gore..."

"A President Gore, with Tipper at his side, would have had all the trappings..."

"Everyone knew that the Gores had a strong marriage, an enviable union, if there ever was one."

Them there lines seem awfully glib to me. Other opinions may differ, of course.

Oh, and "blood-wrenching?" How, specifically, does one have one's blood wrenched?

Redstone

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Redstone]

73. On the rocks, with a twist.

Redstone

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

67. Clinton's flaw was actually naivety and hubris combined

which is a strange blend. Naivety for believing he could still harbor individual human passion while being President and hubris for believing it would be undiscovered.

[klook]

70. Nobody died

when Clinton lied.

Wise up!!!

[WillyT]

72. Woo Hoo... You Funny, Man !!!

:wtf:

[Skwmom]

74. Clinton commit a selfless act for the good of the country? No way.

Furthermore, in 2004 all the Democratic candidates (Clark excluded) could think about was their own self-serving desires - the country be damned.

[ladjf]

79. Brilliant post!

The butterfly effects of the Bush regime will be more complex and gruesome.

[Zomby Woof]

80. Steaming pile of bullshit

Clinton enjoyed 70%+ approval over the arc of the impeachment, and it proved the American people could separate the personal from the political.

As for the congressional seats, the bulk of those were lost in '94, due to the GOP's "Contract With America", dissatisfaction with Clinton's performance (due to high expectations so soon). The seats lost due to his affair were negligible - in fact, much of the losses from '94 on were attributed to the American conceit that we supposedly like 2-party rule and a division of powers in the legislative and executive branches.

Gore won the election. As for not making the margin wider, it was no one's fault but his he couldn't have ran a better campaign, and the American people can also be faulted equally for not overlooking his weak campaign and for not seeing Bush for what he really is.

Blaming Clinton for everything under the sun short of athlete's foot is a very tired game, and assigning Bush's selection to a blowjob by some 'butterfly effect' is pseudo-philosophizing and intellectually lazy, a shortcut to nowhere.

[Dr Fate]

81. Wrong. Caving to that B.S. would have set a terrible precedent.

No one should lose their job over family problems that were trumped up by a media machine...

Do you really think they would have stopped there?

[B Calm]

82. It was nothing more than political smear mongering by cons..

[Media_Lies_Daily]

83. What idiotic tripe. The Far-Right has been planning their takeover for...

...quite some time. You would know that if you spent half as much time concentrating on historical facts instead of Bill Clinton's bj.

[OzarkDem]

84. I reject the premise

that Clinton's resignation would have made any difference whatsoever. The GOP excels smear campaigns, usually not based on fact.

Surprising how often we're seeing the Clenis meme in recent days as Bush and the GOP sink lower and lower. Smells like desperation.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

87. It wasn't the blow job but the pathetic attempt to cover it up.

If Bad Boy Billy had just told the media that his private life was none of their business the whole sorry affair would have died.

Otherwise, I agree with you. He should have resigned.

[OzarkDem]

88. Do you really think

that would have stopped the GOP attacks against Dems? Really, now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

89. Hell no. But, it would have stopped the impeachment.

[JVS]

92. It doesn't matter. Parties always attack each other.

The republicans aren't about to stop attacking Dems. The important thing is presenting them with hard-to-hit targets rather than getting caught (literally) with your pants down.

[SharonRB]

90. It was just a matter of time until someone blamed

EVERYTHING on Bill.

[HamdenRice]

94. I completely agree! He should have resigned

American pols find it impossible to think in terms of party, rather than their own individual careers. That would have been a masterful jui jitsu move, which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars of national treasure.

And oh yeah, the Gore daughters are absolute babes compared to Ginna and Tonic

[B Calm]

95. Who are you to judge him?

[McCamy Taylor]

96. This isnt funny. It is stupid. Rewrite is in order if you intended humor.

If you are serious, then you need to grow up.

If you are trying for subtle sarcasim, you need to read some masters of the genre, then try this one over.

[KG]

97. thanks for speaking the unspeakable.

[Writer]

98. Following the blow job and the subsequent impeachment procedings...

Democrats gained back many seats in 1998.

Gingrich resigned, followed by Livingston who also resigned, replaced by Hastert.

Clinton's approval ratings were in the stratosphere.

My theory: an inept 2000 Democratic presidential campaign run by Donna Brazille sunk Gore. That's what.

[Dees]

99. Nonsense...do you think stealing elections has anything to do with it?

[Cleita]

100. Sorry, Dave. I have to disagree with you for once.

If the blow job had been in Bush's office, we would have never heard about it. Clinton decided to fight it because he knew if they got away with it, every Democratic president from here on out would be under attack.

They would have started in on Gore right away. Of course it didn't necessarily have to be a BJ. It would have been his Achilles Heel. This is what they are going for, the great leader's weak spot and they are succeeding.

Look what they did to Grey Davis in California. Yet, there is nary a criticism of the Groper. Instead they are talking of making him President.

[Tesha]

101. You are 100% correct. Clinton cost the Democrats *DEARLY*. (NT)