Beware: The Cult of Hillary

[kliljedahl]

By
Raconteur at Large
Stephen Pizzo

December 6, 2005

No Republican bashing today. Why? Because it's not required. The Republican revolution has is finally petering out, dying a death of a thousand self-inflicted cuts. I said several years ago that the best way to get rid of neo-conservatives is to give them everything they said they wanted. They got pretty much all of what they said they wanted – tax cuts for the rich, welfare cuts for the poor, less environmental restrictions on businesses, free trade, conservative courts, faith-based politics, faith-based education. It began in 1994 with Newt and will come to a grinding stop in November 2006.

That's the good news.

The bad news comes two years later, in November 2008. While Democrats will regain some of their lost power in '06, (with the growing possibility they will even regain at lease one house of Congress,) the party is risking the big prize, the White House in '08.

That risk can be summed up in two words: Hillary Clinton. If Democrats give Hillary the nod in '08 they will lose the White House again -- and this time not by the narrowest of margins, but in a landslide. Why?

Because Hillary is "one of them." There come along from time to time unique personalities that, flawed as they are, attract followers like flies to dung. The likes of Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Rev. Moon, Tom DeLay, George W. Bush. People like them, follow them down the strangest of paths and trust them with their most precious possessions.

This leaves the rest of us watching in disbelief, scratching our heads wondering if maybe we're missing something. How can otherwise functioning, rational, law-abiding folk be attracted to such obvious liars, phonies and connivers? But they are. Always have been and it will always be so. It's truly one of life's great mysteries.

Hillary Clinton is precisely such a person. There's something about the woman that dazzles some people.

I first saw it three years ago while attending meetings with Democrat strategists in Washington. A cell phone would ring. "Mumble, mumble... okay." Click. "I have to go," the recipient would say, adding importantly, "I have to meet with Hillary." A knowing hush would fall over the room. Glances exchanged. Heads nodded. A call had come from on high. Power had touched all in the room. It was as if the image of the Virgin Mary had appeared on that fellow's toasted cheese sandwich.

I called it The Cult of Hillary.




Keith’s Barbeque Central

[bahrbearian]

1. Book marked

[LaurenG]

2. I will NOT vote for her under ANY circumstances

I hope they don't do it, I'll go with someone else, not her.

[Tempest]

3. Any circumstances?

Even if Hillary gets the Democrat nomination and she's running against Jeb Bush, Rick Santorum or Bill Frist?

[bbgrunt]

5. If Hillary gets the nomination, look for a strong 3rd party showing

[A Simple Game]

32. Maybe if we ask real nice,

Nader will run again! That worked real well for us before, didn't it.

[liberalnurse]

65. Nah.....we will ultimately vote for her.

It would be fatal to vote Third Party. They have no power in Congress at this point in time. We need to get this right wing Gangster-Klan OUT of POWER. The only way to to it is through the Democratic Party.

[Cults4Bush]

99. Ahh yes well you are wrong this time.

The war is to serious a thing and is not a single issue, its repercusions are not only being felt here but around the world and trust me the repercusions haven't even started.

She wont get the Dem nod anyway, I dont think anyone who voted yes on the IWR will unless they admitted how very very wrong they were. Not just the pres but themselve for trusting the neocons, which would be on a par of trusting Hitler on human rights.

But yeah, I think you really underestimate not only the current anger at this war but the coming anger. Consider trying to encourage the coming liberal backlash instead of just rolling over for a Dem like Hillary.

[roguevalley]

76. agreed. I cannot vote for her.

[mod mom]

91. I agree, Hillary will force me to vote third party as well, something I

never did before!

[LaurenG]

14. I would have a VERY difficult time under those circumstances.

So I would have to retract and reconsider. Perhaps I could leave the country for four years. I would be mighty unhappy should that occur as there are so many others who would be a much better choice.

[Xithras]

25. I'd withold my vote.

Look up DINO in the dictionary, and you'll find a picture of Hillary Clinton. I have no interest in voting for a Republican, even if that Republican lies and claims that she's a Democrat.

[Yollam]

29. I dislike her and I'd vote for her if she got the nomination.

I agree that she is pretty phoney - but hey, she's a politician. What can you expect? Bill was pretty phoney too, but he knew how to pull it off.

I'll work for her opponent in the primaries, but if she gets it, I'll be behind her. She would make a competent, and relatively ethical prez, which is more than I could say for ANY GOPer.

[Walt Starr]

38. I'd go third party under those circumstances

I've survived five years of *, I can survive anything.

[suziedemocrat]

Me either- if it's Clinton -vs- McCain - I'd go with McCain (reluctantly!)

I ABSOLUTELY can't stand her!!! I liked her husband, but I'm too afraid she wouldn't just let him run everything.

Edit to add - If Clinton's the best the Democrats can do - What's the point of having two parties?

[Protagoras]

63. I hate to disagree with you.

so I won't.

Or maybe I can't.

Either way I'm glad I have a couple more years to tear myself apart worrying about this.

[Ignacio Upton]

75. McCain is pro-life and has dramatically lower labor and enviromental

ratings. Are you dilusional to think that McCain would be better for this country than Hillary, if it came down to that scenario? Neither of them will be nominated.

[slybacon9]

67. it won't matter, she won't win

it's a mathematical impossibility... and not like the one that "won" * the presidency.

you can't lose your base, an never gain the other side, and only pick up the middle 10% and expect to win.

So yeah, even if confronted with Frist, Jeb, or Santorum... i won't be going to the polls.

Sick of Gore.

Sick of Kerry.

Sick of Hillary.

[AntiCoup2K4]

72. Doesn't matter.

Either option in that case would bring you the same fucked policies.

[BlueIris]

122. Yeah...people? I'm not passionate about Senator Clinton or anything,

but--seriously? Saying any circumstances is--we'll see how "principled" you are if it's really her against a neo-con.

[BamaBecky]

87. ME EITHER!

[leeroysphitz]

4. "voters are fed up with the war, so she is too -- now."

Better late than never I guess but I will not vote for her in the primaries. (unless Jerry Springer and Zell Muiller are the only other candidates... (and even then who knows?))

[Bombtrack]

6. it's an absurd notion to pick her among other democrats

but obviously it's also dumb to say you wouldn't vote for her if she GOT the nomination. That should be something that goes without saying unless this turned into anti-pragmaticunderground.com

[Warpy]

22. Not dumb, at all

for those of us who are working stiffs and who missed out on her husband's "boom" (although we still had jobs, we didn't see much of a rise in pay) and who know another DLC presidency would just be more of the same old shit that's been killing us for the last 37 years.

To hell with 'em.

There has got to be some way to show the party how devastating it has been for them to ignore their working class base.

We can't take another 4 years of a fake Democrat allowing offshoring to continue, wages to fall, corporations to run roughshod over employees and customers alike, and no hope for a better future. A bad pubbie is no worse for the working class than another bad Democrat.

I said 5 years ago when Gore was running that he was ignoring the party base at his peril. I said the same thing when Kerry ran. If they treat us to the same old class warfare, forget 'em. I'm voting Green or Socialist.

[wadestock]

58. As long as we have democrats like you....

We'll never form a strategy to win.

We learned one very important thing after Gore.
- Demonization works....aka....people couldn't get over the demonization of Clinton.

We learned one very important thing after Kerry.
- Demonization works....aka....you can take one of the few people who went to Nam and returned with a clear head and twist it around to mean that he's anti-war.

We WILL learn another important thing after Hillary.
- Demonization works....aka...she can't stand up to the horrific nature of war...she has skeletons, etc...it will be a cakewalk to tear her down.

So....

It appears to me it's about winning....not chatter at this point.
There is no democrat that would ever vote in the permanent tax cuts and rig the system so that only the upper 1% benefit.

You can pick anyone of em and you won't get that type of BS except possibly for LIEberman.

NOW THEN....
Think of how ANY alternate to the neocons will fair well against the onslaught of demonization.....and you have the ONLY person that might stand up and prevent this country from being sold out.

In my book...that's Clark.
Because he will articulate a sincere message that one can be proud to be liberal...and proud to help others....and proud to be responsible as a world leader.

[Warpy]

59. You've completely missed the point.

There has been class warfare going on against working people in this country for the past 37 years. The DLC is part of it.

That is why they have lost all three branches of government.

If common sense = demonization, then that's some serious DLC bullshit that's been bought into.

The DLC are LOSERS. If they weren't, the Democrats wouldn't be shut out of power.

Deal with it.

[earth mom]

83. I'm with you! Yep-America should wake up to the class war

that's going on if they know what's good for them. Because face it, most of us ain't rich, and are never gonna be rich. We need and must look out for ourselves-NOW! Since it's blatantly obvious that the elites in office like Hillary and Kerry etc., don't give a damn about any of us! :grr:

[wadestock]

108. Double Dead Wrong

You guys are smokin some stiff stuff.

Bush tax cuts have been ram rodded through Congress.
Sure enough....it means lowering the upper rate from Clinton's near 40% down to 35%...not as bad as Reagan's second term 30%....but dam bad enough coupled with irresponsible spending plus the war.

It's the long term effect over time of TRICKLE UP that has put more and more money into those who already have it...with less for the rest to invest. Pure fact the middle has lost assets with only a few year exceptions since 1975. It's a long drawn out horror story that few Americans at all can put into perspective.

As a group, the dems aren't championing anything which means less tax breaks for the middle-poor or more for the upper 5%.

Kerry was clear on rolling BACK Bushco tax cuts.
NO ONE in the last election said anything but that Bushco tax cuts were irresponsible.
The ONLY one who says with a tongue in cheek remark about tax cuts is LIEberman.

So get off the freekin bandwagon about the dems championing a two class system.

[earth mom]

127. What have they done for the middle class and poor lately? Hmm?

Jack! :puke:

Show me jobs that aren't outsourced, bankruptcy protection no questions asked, overtime pay, etc etc. The list of what they have taken from us is ENDLESS! Next up: Social Security. And taxes? Oh yeah, that's on the list too, and it WON'T favor the middle class. No doubt about that! :grr:

[Midwest_Doc]

7. Thanks for Posting This ....

Stephen Pizzo, IMHO, is the brightest and most thoughtful political writer on the web. His site is the ONLY one I read, from beginning to end, every day that it is posted,
Please forgive my gushiness, but he really is that good.

[kliljedahl]

9. I don't always agree with him

but he's always a good read.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[peacetalksforall]

8. This guy is good. Thanks for posting. I think everyone should read

this. At this point in time, my gut tells me that she is ALL wrong as a candidate.

I think we should consider Dorgan. Supposedly, he received some of the tribal money, but we need to learn more before condemning or dismissing.

Yes, it would be nice to have a female or a non-Christian white candidate, but we may have to look at someone who is just as articulate and qualified; who doesn't polarize. No matter how much Gingrich and Lott and their ilk like her, she is despised by the their inarticulate and lemming voters. She is a polarizer and they are probably setting her up just as they set up a rush of approval for Kerry out of their fear of Dean.

They know who they can knock down. They know what arsenal of attack they have in their vault. She may deserve the highest office based on intelligence, knowledge, dedication, and hard work, but we will always have the 90's to live and relive over and over again with the Hannity's , Limbaughs, Robertsons, Falwells, and their listeners.

And she doesn't have all the Dems with her as of today because of the mystery of her conversions.

[hiley]

10. The Cult of Hillary, perfect

stop picking on Hillary, she is a dem and dems aren't supposed to bash dems..
:sarcasm:

[kliljedahl]

11. Yeah right!!!

[hiley]

12. kliljedahl

I love your sarcasm tag!
too cool, btw! love the article too!:yourock:

[kliljedahl]

13. Hey I meant to thank you

for the vote <---- over there, need to give you one.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[hiley]

15. your welcome

I always love to read your posts.
You are always coming up with "new" info or writers, (new to me anyhow)

[sendero]

16. This guy..

....nails it. I just don't understand why everyone doesn't see what a fucking phony Hillary is.

[kliljedahl]

19. Read further down the page

He nails a lot of stuff, occasionaly is a lttle off the wall, but aren't we all?



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[paineinthearse]

17. 5th

Pigpen, you hit the nail on the head. The progressives of NY should boot her back to the Ozarks and elevate someone more deserving, someone with a backbone, such as DA Spitzer or Rep. Louise Slaughter or Rep. Maruice Hinchey.

[jsamuel]

18. The somewhat well known Cult of Personality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

Anyone that people will follow without thinking for themselves is a danger. That includes anyone that I normally support. Think for yourselves. Don't become part of a cult.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Here ya go kliljedahl:

:D

[kliljedahl]

23. Can I sell it on E-bay?

Love it, where are the electric fingers?



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Swamp Rat]

27. Somewhere in here:

[Uncle Joe]

88. Are those freedom fries

or patriotic potatoes?

[mhr]

21. She Is An Iraq War Sympathizer And Will Not Get My Vote

Under any circumstances.

If she wants to be a Republican like Lieberman, then go join the damn Republican party and leave us alone.

We don't need war sympathizers representing us.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Yes

While other democrats are trying to form a plan we can all agree on and talking about getting out she's worried about the polls. *sigh*

[Just Me]

24. I think the truth is that,....most EVERYONE is still scared of,...

,...having a female CIC. We have yet to mature sufficiently to realize just how effective and powerful a woman would be as the POTUS.

That's too bad.

[cascadiance]

28. I'd like Boxer or Pelosi to take that first step far more though...

Boxer I'd like to see run as VP or Pres. next election. Pelosi might get there by default if we have an impeachment in 2007.

I'd take either of them before I'd vote for Hillary.

[kliljedahl]

30. That was going to be my response

I could easily vote for a female CIC, if she were truly a Progressive & not a Dino. Love the pic in your sig line BTW, Sibel for vice prez.

[cascadiance]

50. Just made my sig pic yesterday... Feel free to spread it around...

I also created a new black t-shirt for her on my CafePress site too with the same elements ...

http://www.cafepress.com/sibel.40085256



Yeah, it's too bad Sibel wasn't born here so she could run for president. I guess I might get questioned as well if I tried as I was born overseas too. But what I'd like to see is the next Dem to win the presidency to put her in charge of the FBI or Homeland Security. THAT would be cool!

[kliljedahl]

54. WOW!! Love it

You know, I think I bought a bunch of Cindy stuff you did. Looks like I'll be buying some more.

[Just Me]

33. Ew. Boxer is AWESOME!!! However,...

,...she is viewed in the "political arena" and in general as a lefty.

Ya' see,...what bugs the f* outta' me is that, those who are defining the "political game" are those who perpetuate the old barons rather than advancing the new prospects of a true democracy. Only a few refuse to be stuck in that political mud,...and they are severely persecuted as something hideous rather than noble.

GAWD. I. AM. SO. SICK. of the political dysfunction in this country.

If I had the power to change anything in this world, it would be the game of politics. Anyone who failed to fulfill the highest commitment to honesty and integrity and service would be discharged, AT WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

[kliljedahl]

37. Well I'm a "lefty"

have been for 30+ years, so she'd be just fine.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Just Me]

46. I'm a "lefty" open to progressive, open negotiations with those,...

,...way far out "righties" in order to get SOMEWHERE other than here,...somewhere forward.

HOWEVER, I am a passionate advocate for pulling the freaking right-wing pendulum severely back to where it belongs,...closer to me and the rest of humanity. If ya' know what I mean,...

I don't want to be a member of a global fascist-like, corporacrat influence on this world filled with people,...with people JUST LIKE ME.

and,...with that,...I am emotional,...and tired,...and need to sleep away the images of horrors that have been committed in my name,...

[cascadiance]

52. I think when she was talking with someone like Al Franken

on a talk show recently she said she probably wouldn't run as there might be someone who might be more "mainstream" that should run instead or something to that effect, but it sounds like she aims to be an instrumental part of who gets elected in 2008. I don't think she's probably enough to head the ticket, but if you get someone like Clark heading up the ticket, she might be someone good to counterbalance it in the VP slot.

A lot depends on what happens over the next year (investigations, court selections, etc.) If she can show herself to be a decent leader to get the congress steered in the right direction to bring down this "Culture of Corruption", she might be able to grab more votes from the middle.

For someone who's "left wing", consider this. Our 50th district here in San Diego (which has had voted in Cunningham, etc. into congress, voted for Sanders over Donna Frye, and voted for three of the Rethug props in the recent election STILL gave Boxer over 50% of the votes here in this very red state area in her last Senate election. That shows a lot of strength for "just being a lefty". I think she could have more pull than many realize.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Me too!!

And if we can win back the House especially next year and impeach and prison the whole Bush gang and have a president Pelosi!!!

[hfojvt]

40. nah, it is not about having a female President

We would just rather have Tammy Baldwin, or some other member of the Progressive Caucus, be that woman, instead of someone like Hillary or Liddie Dole.

[sendero]

42. You know...

... I gonna have to tell you straight up - my dislike of Hillary has zero, zero, zero to do with her gender. Now I do think her gender will be a disadvantage for us at the polls, but I've personally known enough women well enough to have NO DOUBTS that a woman can do everything a president has to do.

Not every man is cut out to be president, and neither is every woman. I really doubt that many here on DU have a problem with Hillary's gender.

[suziedemocrat]

48. You're kidding right? I also don't like C. Rice because I'm racist.

Give me a break! We have matured BEYOND the point of considering people simply because of their gender. She's on the wrong side of too many issues!

[TahitiNut]

62. Oh, yeah. That's it. Anyone who has serious disagreements with ...

... Hillary must absolutely, positively be a sexist bigot. Yep. That's a nice, cozy foxhole that'll serve quite well. Uh-huh. :eyes: :eyes:

Just like all the anti-semites on DU who detest Joe Lieberman's positions, right? Yeah. That's gotta be it. :eyes:

Of course all the people on DU who opposed Al Sharpton's candidacy were just ignorant, racist, bigots too. Right? Wow! That really works!

So, DU is populated with sexists, racists, and anti-semites!!

All except you, of course.
Golly. Must be tough to bear that huge burden of bringing the light of reason to DU. :eyes:

[Just Me]

92. You misinterpreted my point,....or, perhaps, I failed to adequately,...

,...communicate my point that, gender discrimination is still very real. I wasn't making a comment about DU. Geez, but for the fact that DU is quite progressive, I wouldn't hang out here. Hillary Clinton would definitely NOT be my ideal female candidate for presidency. However, I believe ANY female candidate would have a tough row.

I apologize for inadvertently hitting your particularly sensitive button. That certainly was not my intention.

[Ignacio Upton]

26. She's not even running for President

I'll wait until she actually announces her intentions. In the mean time, can we stop flooding the site with Hillary threads? The numbers of post related for HRC are obsessive and nonsensical.

[hiley]

39. have another Hillary thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5532386&mesg_id=5532386

Bill Clinton was not running either when he campaigned last time for Governor of Arkansas..
please

[kliljedahl]

41. That's not the Onion?

That's hilarious.

[hiley]

43. I love this part!

Defense of Christmas Act

HRC sponsors bill making it illegal to say the words “Happy Holidays”. Likely won’t fly with SCOTUS, but we’ll still get PR bump. Don’t forget Election Day ’08 is less than two months before Xmas ’08! Maybe we limit ban to federal employees. HRC can prohibit use of “HH” among staff -- and have ritual firing of office violator in October ’08. Potential tie-ins: DC bonfire burning DVDs of “Holiday”, “Roman Holiday”, “Death Takes a Holiday”, etc. Have Madonna sing her hit “Holiday” but change the lyrics to “Christmas” (Q: Is she Jewish now?). Could also legally change names of “Chanukah” and “Kwanzaa” to “Christmas” (a win-win-win). Slogan idea: "Single Prayer System?" Check to see if Gibson and O’Reilly will appear at presser and endorse. Make sure to have big cross and manger (with baby Jesus) behind podium. Idea for Hillary ’08 slogan: “Hillary: She Saved Christmas”.

<clip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/huffpo-exclusive-secret-_b_11784.html

[Clark2008]

89. Hillary's Angels

:rofl:

[FreedomAngel82]

68. I do wonder

Sometimes I wonder if it's all a scam to make the rightwing focus all their energy on her instead of the real canidate. I read that Clinton (Bill) recently met secretly with Mark Warner around Thanksgiving.

[AntiCoup2K4]

73. It's the DLC cheerleaders starting most of the Hillary threads.

Perhaps you should send Big Al an e mail asking him to cease and desist?

[Ignacio Upton]

74. Most of the threads on DU are ANTI-HILLARY!

And the only pro-Hillary ones are in response to the anti-Hillary ones, and those lead off with titles like "Hillary is still a Democrat." Many of the defenders of Hillary, including myself, aren't trying to pimp her for 2008, but we are tired of the irrational and counter-productive obsession over her and her politics.

[MellowOne]

31. Democrats have much better choices than Hillary

For one thing, she's not qualified as a one-term Senator. A friend told me today, she was one of the first on the board of directors at Wal-Mart.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. Is that true?

[MellowOne]

81. If you mean her director on board at Wal-Mart

My friend said she watched a biography about Sam Walton and they mentioned that fact about Hillary.

[Terran]

34. Who really thinks there's a liklihood

of HC being nominated in '08? Not to be rude, but there are a lot of well-qualified white males out there, and when it comes down to it, I don't see the Dems going out on a limb in '08.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a woman in the WH (well, a Demo woman, not some creepy fembot like Libby Dole, f'rinstance). I still just don't think Hilary is gonna be it in '08.

[Walt Starr]

35. Article is SPOT ON!

:thumbsup:

A Hillary nomination is the Progressive Wing's queue to find a party elsewhere.

[wadestock]

36. Way too complex

It's this simple.

She lends herself to demonization.
She will be torn apart by the machine that is in motion right now to orchestrate a demolition that makes Kerry look like a walk in the park.
Set her up....knock her down....they have to be salivating about it right now.

I saw that a mile away the minute Limbaugh called her a "frontrunner".

Get her the hell off the scene as fast as possible.

Clark or someone like him is the only one who sincerely is a democrat and who will stand up to the onslaught because he's for real....AND he can articulate WHY one should be proud to be a democrat.

[AntiFascist]

44. Exactly....

Even if she comes around on foreign policy, which is questionable, there are simply too many non-Democrats who will be actively opposed to her for other reasons. Of course, they would like to see her become popular now just so they can beat her down later.

[MrSlayer]

45. Yes.

He's saying what I have been saying for years. Whatever is politically expedient is what Hillary will do. She blows in the wind and stands for nothing. If she is nominated we will get crushed.

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Good read

And in I believe the Kerry forum someone posted that Bill Clinton recently met secretly with Mark Warner of Virgina. So I'm not sure what to make about that (the article said it was around Thanksgiving when Clinton/Warner met). She more than likely has a lot of people who align themselves with the neocons who do the DLC and she's a big time major Dlc person. I read an article posted here from the Nation that corporations like Exon and Enron are "in bed" with the DLC and corporate sponsers with them. Remember they have a republican guy apart of their team.

[Clark2008]

90. And the media is trying to set Warner up as the anti-Hillary...

...which is a load of shit when you consider that they're both DLC.

I don't hate Warner, mind you, but he's NOT the opposite of Hillary Clinton.

x(

[msongs]

49. ummm, "THEY" followed bush to the white house for TWO terms....

the article says

"The likes of Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Rev. Moon, Tom DeLay, George W. Bush."

Would that be the bush serving two terms? if so the author of the OP is not such an authority on this subject as he claims.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/chinamart.htm

[Cults4Bush]

100. You really need to try and clarify what you said.

It makes almost no sense and I just cant interpret it.

[bluedawg12]

55. I am not for or against her, but the article was a hatchet job.

Pizzo hasn't shown me that she is much different than any other politician, they are all duplicitous.

However, I haven't got a sense of her on the public stage as a candidate for the big job. If she runs I'll wait till the debates, and the campaign.

I prefer to make my own decisions after I reall hear her and see her. In the meantime, Pizzo came off as pretty nasty and biased.

Who gives a shit if she has acolyts? or if people are falltered that she calls? The war hasn't been exactly a strong, consistent part rallying point yet. The flag burning, don't know free speech v symbolism. No win for dems.

I would rather read a good narrative of her voting record and policy statments than something so biased.

[BlueIris]

123. THANK YOU.

Glad someone pointed that out.

[LittleClarkie]

56. I feel slighted.

What about the Kult of Kerry? What do we have to do to get arrested in this town, eh?

;)

Kerry Krishna... Kerry Krishna... Krishna, Krishna... Kerry, Kerry...

[kliljedahl]

57. That's funny

If I could vote for just your post I would.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[BlueIris]

125. HA HA HA HA HA!

....drools....I just want to make out with him....more important than life....

[Cocoa]

60. there are lots of valid criticisms of Hillary

but this kind of stuff is silly in the same way that the RW criticism of her is silly and overblown.

[Joe Chi Minh]

82. I agree, but anyone - certainly including Clark, who voted

Republican five times - who obstructs the institution of a New Deal for all Americans, should be perceived as representing a real danger of the status quo being used as the base-line for fine-tuning, instead of viewing it as a usurpation of democracy, to be condignly repudiated, in favor of a civilized, European-style Social Democracy.

Ironically, although the right always claims to be the party of sound finance in both our countries (UK, too), they never are, so your economic recovery depends on it.

[David Zephyr]

61. The Cult of Clinton.

Actually, Hillary should be Hillary and not Bill's candidate. She was (once) far more progressive than the Arkansas politician she married.

Hillary's latest: "I still support the Iraqi War that I voted for in spite of what Congressman Murtha may say" is just more of Bill Clinton's machinations with his candidate wife.

Good God. To think that we will have to endure Jennifer Flowers and the whole god damned carnival all over again in 2008 is just depressing as hell.

When the Democrats have great leaders like Wes Clark, Al Gore, Barbara Boxer, it just baffles the living hell out of me how we would even consider...

It is the Cult of the Clintons and it's time a lot of us get into some serious deprogramming.

[lonestarnot]

64. Looking more and more like I'm agreeing with you here.

[Anser]

66. Wow...

I like Hilary. I'm not a cult member. She's not perfect, but few are.

She puts a lot of time and effort into two issues that are important to me, and should be important to all of you.

1st: Women's health issues,- and the right to autonomy and privacy a woman has over her own body.

2nd: In case any of you don't know, but where are all the right wing judicial nominees coming from? From within the cesspool that is the federalist society. A group that throws money and focus at right-wing leaning law students. Hilary has been instrumental in the forming of the American Constitutional Society, a rival group, attempting to give democratic/liberal law school students a voice and focus.

That said, I hope we have a true principled progressive as our nominee in '08. And at this point, with all the misinformation put out there by the right wing owned media, I'm not completely convinced Hilary would be a horrible choice.

Besides, god forbid we actually have a woman as our nominee, deny you all will, but truly search your motives behind your kneejerk reactions against her, and see if its not at least partially due to her gender.

[mhr]

78. Keen Jerk Reaction - Iraq War - She Is Not Credible As A Candidate

eom

[Clark2008]

96. It is her gender.

But that's not why I would or wouldn't vote for her. But that's why millions of other won't, which means she won't flip a red state, may lose a couple of blue states and can't garner enough support during wartime to beat Diebold.

So, yes, her gender plays a role in how the mushy middle will vote (and the Reich-wing won't vote for her at all, so their gender issues are moot), but I doubt it has much to do with why Dems won't vote for her.

[BlueIris]

124. ..."can't garner enough support during wartime to beat Diebold."

This is what I keep telling people--and I'm pretty sure H.C. knows this. The media WON'T spin another stolen election it CAN'T sell. But if we put H.C. up as the nominee, the media will be able to get away with not covering election fraud AGAIN, and stupid, fat, misogynist Americans will believe she "lost" after the media promotes the idea that Americans "weren't ready for a woman." Sorry, y'all, but it's as simple as that.

[Stephanie]

70. She's Barbara Streisand

I am in total agreement. She will sink us.

[autorank]

71. Outstanding!!! Recommended!!!

The Empress has no clothes...eweeeuuuu, 'mental picture.'

[BamaBecky]

95. I agree completely

[yurbud]

77. Difficulty with blocking Hillary: look at Dean in '04

Mainstream/DLC Dems weren't nearly as popular and when you looked at money from small donors, Dean had much broader support.

So the DLC types did a take down with an assist from right wing noise machine based on that scream, the most trivial attack on anyone ever, making Clinton's sex life look like a graduate seminar on foreign policy.

i don't know what we can do to stop that kind of attack on a populist candidate by the Chamber of Commerce tapeworms, but somebody better figure it out.

We might get a better deal at home with Hillary, but the same horrific foreign policy that is making enemies faster than it kills them.

[Mutley]

79. Regardless of my personal feelings for Hillary...

(which are going downhill more by the day) I don't think she'll be given the nom. I think most people are much too wary of her. She was a good first lady, an okay Senator, but I just don't think she's presidential material. She spends far too much time toeing the party line, and worrying about her job rather than what's right.

[mtnsnake]

80. Someone could tell you that Hillary is an alien from outer space

who's out to destroy Earth and take it over, and you'd all believe it.

Baaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[BoneDaddy]

94. umm no

No, I make up my own mind about her and I simply do not like who she is and the policies she puts forth. I think it is wonderful that Dems do not walk in lock step like the repubs. And btw, what kind of argument were you trying to make?

[mtnsnake]

110. What kind of argument was I trying to make?

None. Really. Just stating what's reality around here when it comes to Hillary.

You mentioned how it's "wonderful that Dems do not walk in lock step like the repubs". Interesting point. Only thing is you don't have to go any further than this thread to see Dems walking in lockstep. All it took was an article from that tabloid, The NY Post, about Hillary, one which is spun in a way that hides what her true intentions are, and all the Hillary lynchers fall right in step. See?

[BoneDaddy]

113. I am not sure, that is WHY I asked

...but it seemed like you were impying that the critics of Hillary were not making them based upon their conclusions and that we were simply gullible people who would buy something like her being an "alien".

You can believe whatever you want to believe about Hillary, but do not brush our alternative view of her by implying we will believe anything. You were not making an argument, for her, in my opinion, but were rather just mocking us.

[fudge stripe cookays]

116. I didn't even read the article.

I can't stand Hillary on my own.

My cousin in Arkansas has a son who used to work with her, and you can't trust her as far as you can throw her. I will never vote for Hillary.

No lynching, just the truth.

[Cults4Bush]

101. and she could shit on a plate call it meatloaf and you'd eat it and say

that it was better than your Moms.

bahhhhh
bahhhhh
bahhhhh

sheepily yours...

[mtnsnake]

109. Rush and Sean couldn't have said it any better than you just did, son

Good one

[Cults4Bush]

111. Thats ok sonny boy little smaller more insignificant than me tiny thought

boy... I mean that is the inflection when someone tries to talk down to another by using "son". Especially when you know next to nothing about me, which would be typical of your ilk though. Something only a fool would do without having any real personal info on a person or thing. Kinda like Hill's love for the Iraq war.

Oh Oh me big Hil fan, me big manly Mtnsnake protecting Hil from commie terrorist Liberals...

She hates the left wing therefore we want to unseat her and any other wamongering knowitall like yourself. Hows that for a comp to Sean and Rush. Anywho I am not breaking any rules on this site she is not the "nomination" she deserves to be spanked only a little less than Holy Joe, but surely the Joe stuff upsets you as well.

Go on blindfaithing and see how many new Dems you recruit.

Go on supporting the New Middle Dems like Hillary even though 5 years ago they would have been in repuke territory, thats called hypocrisy and all your little threats and taglines about anyone who says different being a 'pub wont change that.

In case you couldn't tell the "son" bit pissed me off more than your allusion to Sean and Rush, I'd probably beat the living hell out of either one of them if I got them alone... besides you're the one that likes to hurl insults like a chimp flinging shit, right? Im sure that why you appreciated my post, thanks.

[mtnsnake]

112. Looks like youre one of those people who can dish it out but can't take it

Did you happen to forget that YOU'RE the one who made that immaturely teenybopperish, personal, NASTY, gross, idiotic comment to me about me eating Hillary's shit and saying it tasted better than something my mother made? And I deserved THAT because of my initial post I made in post #80, which was NOT to you or to anyone specific?? Where the hell were you brought up to come up with a comment about eating Hillary's shit like that??? :puke:

Talk about hypocrisy. Good gawd!!

Hey, if you can't stand the heat then stay away from matches. Hope that helps.

[Cults4Bush]

115. Lol... you crack me up....

You broad brushed quite significantly in that post. I can take it but takeing it doesn't mean I wont respond in kind. You very intently tried to paint all of us who disagree with Hil as loons and then you tried to paint me as a 'puke. Yep, I'll dish it right the fuck back out, as Im sure you would and have... again hypocrisy and that has nothing to do with god, gawd or dog.

Im glad to see you can take it in return, lol.

So go on and lay some more on me it still wont excuse your blind faith policy of supporting illegal occupation and an invasion that is a war crime....

You can keep trying to push out the left wing of the party and all it does is make us fight you all the more. I love it when the Hil defenders come out, it fires me up to reclaim my party from the New Middle which as I stated earlier is red territory. Unless you are going to claim that the middle has not moved right or that Hil isn't in the Middle?

Anyway you cut it the New Middle Dems have claimed war on the far left of our party and fairs fair in return my old senile poppy. Hope that this all helps you in return, since you so sincerely wished wanted the same for me.

C'mon and reply with another one liner.

[mtnsnake]

117. Wow, you really have me pegged. HAHAHA!!!

First you've got me painted as some shit eater, then a warmongering knowitall, then someone who's trying to push you and everyone out of the party who's left of center, and finally as an old senile poppy! Boy did you ever figure ME out! And to think you were able to do it simply because I said, "Someone could tell you (not you personally) that Hillary is an alien from outer space who's out to destroy Earth and take it over, and you'd all believe it."

You must be a top notch psychoanalyst or something, maybe even a mind reader, one who can delve deep into other people's souls to derive such totally amazing and accurate input as you've come up with...and to think you didn't even charge me anything to do it! You know, you could make a lot of money doing sideshows. "The Amazing Cults4Bush". Step right up folks, have the Amazing Cults4Bush read your mind and analyze your soul for $25 a pop!

Wow, do you ever have ME figured out!!

:rofl:

[Cults4Bush]

121. Seriously this is the most fun Ive ever had on a flame...

Its almost like a roast.

Silly little boy that you are and all.

Been fun Mtnsnake, see you 'round.

[Cults4Bush]

126. hmmmm and you know what ? an apology.

Due to your good humor about this, I am going to offer you a sincere apology for the vitriol in my initial response to you. I should have figured out a retort more on a par with yours. I didn't and that is my fault.

Sorry.

[mtnsnake]

128. Hey, thanks, Cults. No apology is really necessary, it takes 2 to tango,

or tangle I should say! I was actually going to post you when I got home from working to say I actually ended up enjoying our little get together and then I saw your note with a similar thought as mine. You must've read my mind (just kidding!!)!

Anyway, you're a good sport. I hope you have a great weekend! Sincerely.

[Clara T]

84. Politics matters much less than celebrity- Hillary is no Liberal

Hillary's No Liberal

On the record Hillary looks less like a meaner, tougher Eleanor Roosevelt than a kinder, gentler Giuliani. Both Clinton and Giuliani support the death penalty, the 1996 welfare reform bill and the Administration's putatively tough and essentially racist initiatives on criminal justice--as well as gay rights, reproductive choice and the New York Yankees. Both have little regard for civil liberties, especially free speech. Unleashed, Giuliani might cut out the tongues of people who criticize him. Clinton, I suspect, would commit her critics to re-education camps. She has no apparent concern for freedom of speech on the Internet. The Clinton Administration has championed clearly unconstitutional restrictions on online speech, such as the now-defunct Communications Decency Act and its successor, the Child On Line Protection Act, currently being challenged in federal court.

<snip>

It is easy to imagine Clinton embarking on an anti-vice crusade. She spouts the subtly repressive principles and platitudes of communitarianism, envisioning a majoritarian society in which collective concerns almost always prevail over individual rights. Remember the politics of meaning, her 1993 call for a collective spiritual renewal, her reminder that we are all "creatures of God"? Hillary has always been something of a virtuecrat, expressly focused on infusing society with the values and presumed virtues of religion. It's true that, unlike Giuliani, she has opposed school voucher programs that divert tax dollars to church schools. But I suspect that opposition reflects concern for the votes of public-school teachers more than a commitment to separating church and state. She has yet to speak out against faith-based social service programs, championed by Al Gore (as well as Republican Senator John Ashcroft), which, like vouchers, channel public money to sectarian institutions providing social services.

<snip>

When Hillary Clinton advocates policies insuring universal healthcare or expanded daycare and various civil rights laws, she does sound like a feminist (and a liberal), but apart from her qualified commitment to abortion rights (she has supported parental notification laws) or her rhetoric abroad, her feminism, like her liberalism, tends to take the form of statism. She is a statist first and a feminist only half-formed--sympathetic to women's demands for civil rights but often indifferent if not hostile to liberty. Clinton, for example, supports laws that restrict the freedom to divorce.

<snip>

Laws like this do not represent wins for women (NOW, to its credit, opposes the juvenile justice bill). Democrats who still harbor old-fashioned liberal feminist sympathies ought to acknowledge that they have found no champion in Hillary Clinton, although in the end, some may feel forced to vote for her. It's too bad they won't have had the chance to vote against her in a primary. In this era of nomination by anointment, politics matters much less than celebrity.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/19990809/kaminer

"We will never build enough prisons to end our crime problem". -- Hillary Clinton, San Francisco 1996

"Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman." - Hillary Clinton, opposing same-sex marriages, quoted in The New York Daily News

I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president." -- Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents

[WI_DEM]

85. if it comes down to Hillary and McCain

while I would naturally support Hillary--I'm almost positive McCain would win in a landslide.

[Patiod]

86. the fact that every R assumes she's the nominee steams me

I like Hillary. If I lived in NY, I'd vote for her for Senate (if for no other reason than to piss off Republicans that she's even in the Senate).

But not for President. No no no. She won't win, and we need to win.

I'm hoping for someone to rise up from "out of nowhere" - like Carter or Bill Clinton. (actually, I'm hoping for Clark, but who knows).

[Clark2008]

97. Considering how much the media ignores Clark, if he gets

the nod, it will SEEMS like out of nowhere to the clueless Beltway stenographers.

:7

[BoneDaddy]

93. Let's get real

This topic comes up over and over and over again. I wish the freaking Dems would look and simply see that WE are INCREDIBLY DIVIDED on this issue of Hillary's viability as a candidate and simply tell the woman that she is not and should not be considered.

We would be committing political suicide if we (democrats, liberals, progressives) seek to put her up for the nomination. She is like a freaking lead zepplin and will come crashing down on us once again. In an effort to win, the republicans simply need to put up a less rabid candidate than Bush (like McCAin) and they will win.

Besides, she is Bush-light as far as I am concerned anyway and does not represent me and my values. Hell, she is supporting a bill that bans flag burning. When did she decide she was going to start appealing to the right this badly?

Hillary is HATED by the right, the middle and based upon comments among dems, she is not liked by a good percentage of us. She needs to stop her power drive and give up the dream of being the first woman president. Stop thinking about your own power issues Hillary and start thinking bout what is best for America. You are not IT.

[mzmolly]

98. I don't think Hillary is as evil as some might assume, but she's NOT

going to get the White House nod. Tis all for naught.

[Nothing Without Hope]

102. I agree totally. Hillary is one of THEM, a DINO and, I believe, a fraud

who cares only for her ambition and lust for power. She knows how to manipulate people, as we see every day. All is calculated.

It will be a bitter and catastropic loss if she is chosen the Dem POTUS candidate.

Even if she wins.

ETA: recommended, kicked and bookmarked.

[Blue_In_AK]

103. I need a Smiley

Hillary with a line through it. NO HILLARY!

[dxstone]

104. I like the cut of this guy's jib...

I'd never seen his site; thanks for the reference, gotta bookmark him...
K & R!
Of course, no one is claiming Hillary's actually EVIL...
Well, hardly anyone, anyway...

MY FRIENDS, A WORD OF WARNING:
If you're one of those considering supporting Hillary in 2008, consider this troubling set of couplets recently unearthed in Bill Clinton's Library, scrawled in his own hand on a pair of red satin panties, the origin and ownership of which yet remains a mystery, and apparently sung to the tune of "Henry the Eighth" by Herman's Hermits:

I'm Hillary's mate, I am!
Hillary's mate, I am, I am!
My ideas for the presidency
Aren't mine--they just appear to be
Cuz every one of 'em's Hillary's
She thinks 'em up and I just shout 'em out!
I'm a great front man for Hillary
Hillary's the brains, no doubt!

(second verse--worse than the first)

I'm Hillary's mate, I am!
Hillary's mate, I am, I am!
I get up and do a puppet dance
When I'm through I give her back the pants
And no one knows that it's Hillary
Who's ruining this whole country just for fun
There's no Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy
HILLARY'S The Evil One!

(peppy but mournful sax solo here...)



What do these lines mean? Is Clinton trying to warn us of something? What did he know, and when? Did he know she was evil BEFORE he married her? Why didn't he tell us sooner? Whose panties are those?
These are just some of the truly dumbbb questions we can expect to hear pundits grinding into gristle until sometime in 2009, when our surprise new Supreme Uber-President Barbara Bush will have finally fulfilled her "No Flesh Shall Survive" campaign promise, something that's been on her itinerary for quite a while now; it's been posted on her friggin' refrigerator for the last 37 years, for cryin' out loud...

DISCLAIMER: Actually, I wrote the above dumb song parody 'way back in the mid-90's... I was just waiting for an opportunity to use it somewhere...
I LOVED the Clintons while they were in office... but they're so badly damaged from the 6-year assault they endured... I think it's ridiculous to even consider nominating her; as Pizzo so correctly states, the Reeps want her as our nominee cuz they KNOW they can knock her out handily...

President Evil Online

[byronius]

105. This thread is bizarre to me. Burn the world rather than compromise.

I remember the Greens in 2000 saying that George Bush would be better than Gore for the environment, because Gore was a fraud and just as bad as Bush, and we needed someone so bad for the environment that America would 'wake up' and go Green forever.

Well, guess what? Bush used his 2000 victory to electronically steal the next election. In fact, I have zero confidence that even if America 'woke up', we could ever overcome this Steel Curtain.

I'm a Boxer/Clark fan. Hillary doesn't really thrill me, but I understand that she's running to the right, just like Bill did -- who pushed through the most liberal agenda in American history short of FDR.

However -- to 'stay home', or vote 3rd Party -- here, let me finish the thought:

"Everone's evil, and corrupt. Every last one of us. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Socialists -- Evil, all evil and corrupt. If you're human, you're evil. Bad. Breathing clean air, and turning it into poison. Evil. Useless bags of water. Death is too good for such shitheads. Nothing means anything. We should all die now."

Such wisdom. Smells like freeper to me. Me, I'll take the compromise and try to make things better incrementally. I'll take the FDR/Clinton political surfer over the coming death camps anyday. But then, I'm evil.

I despise absolutist lefties as much as I do righties. You condemn everyone but yourselves.

Read some goddamned history. Weimar Republic History. The Better Part chewed itself to pieces while the right busily ate the world. This is you.

[mtnsnake]

118. Well said, byronius

That was good. Thanks!

[DemCam]

106. omigod...another thread.

how many years is this gonna seem like? is there no other news?

[dennisnyc]

107. Hillary may well lose her senate seat in '06

this guy Tasini looks great! He's a real Democrat and Hillary's on everyone's shitlist.

http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/

New York wants two democratic senators and we can get it in 06!

[dolo amber]

114. YOU WILL ALL BE ASSIMILATED

[Cocoa]

119. demonizing Hillary

ridiculous exaggerations about Hillary's evilness is not just for RW propagandists anymore. :eyes:

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

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