Peak Oil is a lie...new NASA discovery shows ABIOTIC SOURCE

[OKthatsIT]

BLACK-GOLD BLUES
'Fossil fuel' theory takes hit with NASA finding
New study shows methane on Saturn's moon Titan not biological
Posted: December 1, 2005
11:48 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Saturn's moon Titan (courtesy: NASA)
NASA scientists are about to publish conclusive studies showing abundant methane of a non-biologic nature is found on Saturn's giant moon Titan, a finding that validates a new book's contention that oil is not a fossil fuel.

"We have determined that Titan's methane is not of biologic origin," reports Hasso Niemann of the Goddard Space Flight Center, a principal NASA investigator responsible for the Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer aboard the Cassini-Huygens probe that landed on Titan Jan. 14.

Niemann concludes the methane "must be replenished by geologic processes on Titan, perhaps venting from a supply in the interior that could have been trapped there as the moon formed."

The studies announced by NASA yesterday will be reported in the Dec. 8 issue of the scientific journal Nature.

"This finding confirms one of the key arguments in 'Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil,'" claims co-author Jerome R. Corsi. "We argue that oil and natural gas are abiotic products, not 'fossil fuels' that are biologically created by the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47675

[Taverner]

1. Ummmm someone needs to explain that methane and oil are 2 diff things

[OKthatsIT]

14. Do a little research on ABIOTIC OIL...

[Mr_Spock]

29. Cool, so we have an infinite source of oil somewhere!

Wow, I can't wait 'till we find it! (or figure out how to make it?)

[Toots]

2. I have had my doubts about oil coming from dinosaurs myself.

I suspect there is yet a lot we need to learn. I don't know if oil is renewable or not but I think it may originate from another source than has been suggested.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Oil from dinosaurs? You've been listening to Limbaugh too much

Oil comes from BIOMASS. Plants, in other words. Same thing with coal.

The theory that all petrochemical resources come from dinosaurs is illogical.

There simply weren't enough of them nor were they around long enough to have produced all that oil.

And yes, oil is renewable.

Just wait 200 million years.

[ochazuke]

21. right.

It really doesn't matter where it's coming from. You can see by the rate of dwindling output from oil fields, and the decreasing rate of new discoveries, that it will get in shorter supply at some point.

Besides, even if the earth were like a giant ball of oil with a thin crust on top, what are we going to do? burn it until the atmosphere is 50% carbon dioxide? Or suck the earth hollow?

[Hello_Kitty]

37. I used to think it all came from dinosaurs too

And it puzzled me that there would be so much of it. How many dinosaurs could there have been? I now know better. :)

[okieinpain]

52. I've never read up on it, but I've always wonder how many animals

it would take to create these large pools of oil. and how in the hell they all died in the same spot.

[theHandpuppet]

61. Are you serious or being sarcastic?

Are there really people on DU who believe oil formed from the bodies of dead dinosaurs?

Sheesh! :eyes:

[okieinpain]

68. yep i sure did. sorry I don't come up to your superior standards.

just allow me to keep breathing dear holy one.

[TX-RAT]

65. Question?

Why is oil only found in ancient sea beds.

[Hubris Heaver]

11. Methane is a common chemical throughout the solar system

and was abundant in the early atmosphere: petroleum is not common and did not exist in the early days of planet earth. Petroleum is much more complex than methane.
Petroleum is the result of geologic forces working on ancient decaying matter- primarily vegetable.

SOrry to say but peak oil is a reality. We've used up in 200 years what it took the earth millions of years to create, and we put back into the atmosphere an exceptional amount of carbon in the process.

"news" stories like this confuse a public that is conspicuously undereducated in science already.

[liberal43110]

18. Thank you

Please repeat your common sense everywhere you can. Why do people refuse to understand that fossil fuels are a finite resource? Why do people refuse to understand science?

[Applan]

32. I produce methane in my home

Every time I fart that is, methane comes out, not oil. Methane can be produced chemically, but oil cannot (other than from sources such as coal which is also non-renewable).

[Crunchy Frog]

3. We've known for ages that Titan was full of methane,

and other organic compounds. Also that it was not produced by biological means. Methane is the simplest organic molecule that there is, consisting only of one Carbon and four Hydrogens. The fossil fuels on Earth are far more complex than that.

This "discovery" doesn't prove shit about Earth based fossil fuels. I know this, and I don't even know a damn thing about geology.

[ochazuke]

22. fellow ignoramus agrees

Yeah, methane. SO FREAKING WHAT? Wasn't life on earth supposed to have arisen in a methane-rich environment? So NOBODY EVER SAID IT WAS ONLY FROM BIOLOGIC ACTIVITY.

Another straw man made up by the right wing earth killers.

The only question I have is: is it pronounced 'meth-ane' or 'ME-thane'?

[Crunchy Frog]

25. Yes. Scientist have known for ages

that Titan was covered in massive amounts of simple organic compounds. I've been reading about that fact seemingly for ages. That's why they've been so anxious to send a probe there and examine it more closely; precisely because of all the organic material, and the insight that they thought it might give into the origin of life on Earth.

Organic material mostly does not spontaneously form on Earth now, probably mostly due to the oxidizing atmosphere, but it's thought that it did very early in this planets history, hence it was possible for life to originate.

I don't have any expertise in any of this. This is just what I glean from reading popular scientific magazines.

Don't know about the pronunciation, could be a "tomAto/tomAHto kind of thing, LOL.

[Canuckistanian]

36. Do you say MEETH-amphetamine

Or METH-amphetamine?

I say METH.

[Mutley]

4. dupe

[Junkdrawer]

5. ..and if abiotic oil is "produced" MUCH slower that we're drilling it...

is Peak Oil still a lie or should I secretly by up all the spent oil fields and make a fortune? :shrug:

[mike_c]

6. OMFG-- we REALLY need an exploding head smilie....

"This finding confirms one of the key arguments in 'Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil,'" claims co-author Jerome R. Corsi. "We argue that oil and natural gas are abiotic products, not 'fossil fuels' that are biologically created by the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests."

Is this the same Jerome Corsi who's given us such gems as: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together," and "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?" Not to mention Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry?

[Junkdrawer]

10. Jerome Corsi is such a liar that Michael C. Ruppert's stock just shot up..

Ruppert has long stated that 9/11 was motivated by Peak Oil. The fact that they got Corsi to publish such a book goes a long way toward supporting Ruppert's case.

[Javaman]

45. Let jerome blather on all he wants, we know better...

and the wingers who are in constant denial will be the ones in deep shit in the end, while the rest of us have been preparing.

They will have their rapture but it will be at their own doing and we, the thinking ones, will have the earth to ourselves.

So let this idiot spew bullshit, in the end it will mean nothing when the oil is gone. This is the equivalent of a man standing in a burning house and continuing about his business while he and all his possessions burn up.

So my comment is: Jerome, go crazy, spew your bullshit all you want, sell a million books, go on speaking tours, hold meetings and learning sessions. I on the other hand will continue with the solar panels on my house, bicycle riding to work, the windmill in my backyard, gas-less water heater, my cistern and my apiary. My life will continue while you and your know nothings will be screaming for help in a few years. Knock yourself out Jerome.

[Deja Q]

7. Oil is a hydrocarbon thing. I think it's more than just dinos too, BUT

regardless of the argument, we're still using more than what the planet can regenerate in return.

We need alternatives or a big population reduction.

Guess which one they're slowly moving toward?

[KittyWampus]

8. Jerome Corsi Co-Wrote "Unfit For Command" That Smeared John Kerry's

honorable and heroic service in VietNam.

WorldNetDaily is fishwrap.

[Jai4WKC08]

12. You need a better source than that

Nothing from worldnetdaily.com can be taken seriously.

If you want us to believe this information is really out of NASA, you will have to provide a link to a NASA website. Altho, come to think of it... with the way the Bushies turn every government agency into a propaganda organ, I'd say it should be verified by an independent source.

Ultimately, if it's true and relevant (and I tend to doubt either), the scientific community will verify it thru normal peer review.

[OKthatsIT]

16. How bout Harvard Science Review? Better?

http://www.harvardsciencereview.org/Issues/spring2005/pages_9_9.pdf

[Jai4WKC08]

20. Much better. Thanks. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

27. It is true that there's methane on Titan.

It's also not new. As I said above thread, this has been common knowledge for probably decades. It has never been considered relevant to the issue of how fossil fuels get formed on this planet from anything that I've ever read.

[bridgit]

13. if only in the slightest sense perhaps, while entropy remains...

a bitch on wheels

[Beam Me Up]

15. The elites need to control the MYTH of peek oil in order to sustain their

hegemony. It isn't about the oil, it is about the oil/energy markets. They can not maintain their hegemony if they do not have centralized control of those markets. This is why they have not brought forth sustainable energy infrastructures within our complex, technological civilization. Edit to add: sustainable and renewable energy systems invariably mean decentralization and, thus, the loss of their energy hegemony.

[Strelnikov_]

17. 'Abiotic Oil Theory' And 'Debunking' Of Peak Oil Are Sweeping Reich-Wing

'media' outlets.

That should tell you something right there.

And what is that, you ask?

That the powers want to prevent a hasty switch to renewable/alternate energy and conservation just as they are approaching peak earning potential. That is, selling ever more expensive oil to an addicted world.

I mean, they have spent decades maneuvering the world into the position it is in now.

Peak oil = Peak profits

[KittyWampus]

23. Peak Oil= Peak Earning Potential For Big Oil, very nice very well put!

[salin]

19. Note: WorldNetCrazy, where Alan Keynes represents sane

policy making.

Haven't yet found anything reputable ever come from the WorldNetCrazy though from time to time it is rather entertaining.

It is sort of a Cato Institute meets paranoid religious right meets black helicopter sighters.

[IDemo]

24. For a pretty good review of the topic ->

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100404_abiotic_oil.shtml

[meow mix]

26. hahah abiotic oil theory is like creationism

and the fossil evidence is its worst enemy.
so its just ignored of course.

funny how areas that were biologically rich in the past, like giant ancient swamps and such... and now the sources of oil.
(if they have other "correct" geological features as well)
its no big shocker they know where to look for oil by what was there in the past.


these posts are still great for a laugh though. wtf HUGH!!1

[bahrbearian]

28. Yeah, with that News and the fact Golbal Warming is Fuzzy Science

I get to keep driving all my Hummers

[0007]

30. Making a bigger Hummer that is tract driven like a sherman tank

and ya get two miles per gallons.

Gotta do something to save the failing auto industry. LIke I said before, if a automobile were to be build that operates as well on fresh air and dirty swamp water the taxes would be so high only the very wealthy could drive 'em.

[Strelnikov_]

33. Hey, How Did You Rate A Sneak Preview

of GM's New 'Rommel' line of SUV's?

[0007]

35. I got juice with junior he let's me peep in on real progress.

[longship]

31. US declares war on Titan.

National guard troops nationwide were activated today for immediate deployment to Titan. :evilgrin:

[Canuckistanian]

38. Why do those Titanians hate freedom?

[Leopolds Ghost]

42. They posess an ABIOTIC intelligence... that means no mercy, no compassion

There is no word for "renewable" in Titanian.

That is why we are at war with Titan, and will always be at war with Titan.

Jupiter on the other hand... we're just gonna have to learn to live with.

Kind of like China, you know what I mean?

[HamdenRice]

66. People write LOL! and exaggerate but I am making bad noise in my office

"Let's declare war on the Titanians" and "why do Titanians hate freedom" are going to have me silly all day, everytime I replay this earworm!!!

[hatrack]

67. Let's not forget their extraterrestrial WMDs, built of (wait for it!) . .

TITANIUM!!!!

[PowerToThePeople]

34. haha, good one.

All we need now is a pipeline to Titan.

:rofl:

[depakid]

39. and people wonder why DU has a reputation

as a fringe site.

[SidDithers]

50. Exactly...

worldnetdaily and Jerome Corsi in the same post...

Sid

[Leopolds Ghost]

40. In Other News... An Asteroid from TITAN just destroyed Buenos Aires!!!

Clearly there is some form of ABIOTIC intelligence at work here...
intelligently designed methane? Our troops must have access to
TITAN to study the problem directly!

You're either with us, or you're with the asteroids!

[Leopolds Ghost]

41. BREAKING NEWS: Abundant Carbon on the Surface of the Sun is ABIOTIC

No evidence of extraterrestrial life forms whatsoever, as the Godless Liberals insisted we would find!!!

[rucky]

43. If only we could travel to the Sun and harness its energy.

then we won't have to put up those ugly solar panels.

[Leopolds Ghost]

48. That's Why We must fight the Sunnis

In Iraq, So we don't have to fight them over there, on their home planet of the Sun.

And Solar Flares -- constantly doing damage to the ionosphere. What more evidence do we need of the Sun's evil intentions? The Sun is gassing her own solar system. The Sun kills babies left exposed to it in the desert of Kuwait.

Regime change would allow a peaceful Sun to emerge that is willing to share its energy wealth with all nations and stop killing people and threatening to expand beyond its borders and destroy the Solar System.

[rooboy]

56. And don't forget the 'Moonies'....

;)

[Norrin Radd]

60. The panels could be in orbit in the future, accesible via a space elevator

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9454786

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. 'Lie'? Methane on Titan shows nothing of the kind

'Peak oil' comes from the depletion of oil fields, whatever their origin. That oil fields have been depleted is indisputable - do you really think that American oil companies would stop producing oil from fields in the USA clearly under control of a government favourable to them, and instead take the far higher risks among foreign governments to get their oil? What possible reason for that would they have?

Face it, American oil fields have become depleted, and if happens in the USA, it happens, or will happen, in the rest of the world. Hence 'peak oil'. The 'lie' is just in your imagination.

[ck4829]

46. It's WORLDNUTDAILY and Jerome Corsi folks. COME ON!!!!

I'd believe the inane rantings of a babbling paranoid Schizophrenic before I believe anything that comes out of Worldnutdaily.

[ochazuke]

47. World Net Daily ???

I don't know anything about them, but this article creates the impression that one of their writers along with their editorial staff don't even remember grade school science.

Shameful.

[soothsayer]

49. I'm a fan of this theory. Figured I'd get batterd on DU but glad

you posted it!

[Solon]

55. Sorry, doesn't meet the test for a scientific theory...

so, to be a fan of it is to be a fan of idiocy of the highest order.

[soothsayer]

64. lol! I am!

[SidDithers]

51. That's quite the leap you're making...

from abiotic methane on Titan, to abiotic oil on Earth. Care to show us the steps which describe how one relates to the other?

And why would we have to go all the way to Titan to find evidence of abiotic oil on Earth? Couldn't we just look for it here?

Sid

Edit: forgot this :crazy:

[rooboy]

53. Jerome CORSI is a source? You HAVE TO BE JOKING. n/t

[Solon]

54. BS Article from the WorldNUTdaily...

I would add more, but for one, there may be children present on the board(who can debunk it themselves), and second, others have explained why this articles conclusions are BS already.

[JCMach1]

57. Abiotic, perhaps... but how long does it take to create and in what

amounts...

[rman]

62. ... and where is it?

other then on titan in the form of methane?

[Freedomfried]

58. Jesus makes the oil appear by miracle.

so use as much as you want, there will be enough to last us until the rapture.

[rman]

59. Methane is not oil

The presence of methane can be an indicator for the presence of oil, but it is not evidence of the presence of oil.

More importantly - none of this so-called abiotic oil has been found on earth.

[MrBenchley]

63. WorldNutDaily and Jerome Corsi....

Nuff said....

[Nordmadr]

69. ASPO Strikes Back!

647. Vituperation

The following website alleges dishonesty and incompetence by the Editor of this Newsletter along with schizophrenic and Fascist tendencies.

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2005/10/122-colin-campbell-wrong-again.html.

This avalanche of abuse was apparently triggered by reporting a reassessment that moved the peak date from 2007 to 2010. The word Peak possibly confuses those ignorant of the subject. It is not a Mount Everest but merely the maximum value on a gentle curve. Additional confusion is introduced by the several categories of oil, each depleting at different rates. The present assessment indicates that Regular

Conventional Oil was at peak in 2004, whereas the profile for “all liquids”, as compiled from individual
country evaluations (excluding refinery gains), is as follows:

2000 74.2 Mb/d 2006 81.7 Mb/d 2012 82.3 Mb/d 2018 71.9 Mb/d
2002 73.4 2008 83.6 2014 79.4 2020 68.6
2004 79.6 2010 84.5 2016 75.9 2022 65.0

It is obvious that a fairly minor change in the input, or the modelling assumptions, can shift the maximum value (Peak) by a year or two, one way or the other, while the general position remains clear. We know that the estimates are wrong, given the appallingly unreliable public data. The questions are By How Much? and On What Evidence? If we have missed the impact of the Cretaceous in the Sudan or the delta fronts of Sumatra, please let us know. It is worth noting in passing that were Middle East production to rise higher than presently forecast, it would simply give a higher and possibly earlier peak followed by a steeper
subsequent decline.

In a separate incident, Jack Zagar, giving a talk on Peak Oil to the Society of Petroleum Engineers in Geneva, found himself facing a member of the audience who accused ASPO of being a political conspiracy to justify the invasion of Iraq.



I highly recommend regularly reading the ASPO newletter releases.
This is all taken from the December Newsletter.
http://www.peakoil.ie/downloads/newsletters/newsletter60_200512.pdf

Olaf

[Nordmadr]

71. I would also like to point out that now there are at least two

noted "peak Oil" experts out there now asserting that we have PASSED the peak oil date for all the traditional stuff.

ASPO with Colin Campbell - 2004
Kenneth Deffeyes - Thanksgiving 2005

Olaf

[Avalux]

70. This article says NASA's findings were published in Nature -

I'd suggest that be used as the source of this info, instead of WorldNetDaily - better responses that way! :hi:

[AntiFascist]

72. All we need to do is get those space tankers running....

Aliens! Bring on the rapture!!!

[Walt Starr]

73. Good Gravy, we've know about an abiotic source for methone for DECADES

The atmosphere of Neptune has vast quantities of methane in it. It's nothing new.

But trying to impose the conditions of Tita or Neptune upon Terra is beyond stupid.

[T Roosevelt]

74. Try here, and read through the comments

They are worth it.

The Swift-Boating of Peak Oil