Love IT or leave IT, you assholes!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

The first time I heard this was in 1971 (?) while at a protest involving Lt. Calley in an act reminding one of Abu Ghraib:


(Calley was charged with four specifications alleging premeditated murder in violation of Article 118 of Uniform Code of Military Justice:

Art. 118. Murder

Any person subject to this chapter who without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being when he-- 1) has a premeditated design to kill; 2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm; 3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or 4) is engaged in perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson; is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial trial may direct.

The specifications:

Specification 1: In that First Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr. ...did, at My Lai 4, Quang Ngai Province, Republic of South Viet-Nam, on or about 16 March 1968, with premeditation, murder an unknown number, not less than thirty, Oriental human beings, males and females of various ages, whose names are unknown, occupants of the village of My Lai 4, by means of shooting them with a rifle.

Specification 2: In that First Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr...did, at My Lai 4, Quang Ngai Province, Republic of South Viet-Nam, on or about 16 March 1968, with premeditation, murder an unknown number, not less than seventy, Oriental human beings, males and females of various ages, whose names are unknown, occupants of the village of My Lai 4, by means of shooting them with a rifle.

Specification 3: In that First Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr...did, at My Lai 4, Quang Ngai Province, Republic of South Viet-Nam, on or about 16 March 1968, with premeditation, murder one Oriental male human being, whose name and age is unknown, by shooting him with a rifle.

Specification 4: In that First Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr...did, at My Lai 4, Quang Ngai Province, Republic of South Viet-Nam, on or about 16 March 1968, with premeditation, murder one Oriental human being, an occupant of the village of My Lai 4, approximately two years old, by shooting him with a rifle http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/MYL_calt.HTM ).


and the Mi Lai Massacre. A huge hay truck filled with flag waving NRA card carrying good Americans waving a 6' x 9' American flag, shooting "birds" and screaming the mantra "love it or leave it" drove by slowly as it helped propel the statement into partisan history. The Military code heaere must be applie to the Bush administration.

We hear it more and more today. If you don't support the current administration and its efforts in Iraq, you are at the least, unpatriotic. The lines have been drawn for quite some time and the "patriots (read: pro war)" are wrapping themselves in the flag once again as the Tory Dr. Samuel Johnson once opined.

Actually, I would leave it if I could afford to. We have turned into a fascist state run by corporations rather than people... But I am really attached to the ideals of the "Founding Faters."

I didn't leave then and I won't leave now. The battle lines in American politics have been drawn,

Once again, it's time to take our country back.

Leave it? not on your life.

What is IT? Is it our country? Is it our status quo? What would you lose if you left?

[rosesaylavee]

1. I think the tide is turning

and the message the fascists have been spouting for years has become suspect in the MSM. I think we will win this fight... I can't afford to leave either and besides, that, where would we go? I still think this country - with all its warts - has an idealism and a vision that still resonates in me. I see it here on DU occasionally and elsewhere on the internet so I know its not been permanently lost by the current maniacs running the country.

We will win and our country will be saved. In fact, our country will be all the stronger once we get back into power as we are going to close the loopholes that allowed this mania to start in the first place.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. God, I hope you're right. (N/T)

[RagingInMiami]

2. Why give up what its rightfully ours

We need to stay for the fight and restore this country to normally. I got in an argument with a freeper in DC and he told me to move to France (as if that would be such a torturous move. I love Paris), but I told him to fuck off. I was born here and I'm not going to let these assholes force me out.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. This is the attitude we need to take...

A threshold is here.

[leftstreet]

3. It's time for "them" to leave if they don't like it

Don't believe in separation of church and state? Leave.
Don't like reproductive freedom of choice? Leave.
Don't think gays should marry? Leave.

[JanusAscending]

25. "Leave and let Leave" hahahahahahahah!!!

Sorry................it's late and I just can't help it!! I'm from the "live and let live" side of the aisle, and this was too good to pass up!!!:rofl: DC

[China_cat]

4. We had a counter to that one;

Change it or lose it.

[conyersman]

6. Love it or Leave it

After the assination of Kennedy, both of them, I decided that living in a country in which something like that could happen, was NOT where I wanted to be!

I hated the LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT mantra spouted by so many.

Eventually I did leave the Axis of Evil, and have never looked back.

There are many blessings to not living in a Fascist state, besides peace of mind, not having to 'fight' IT all, all the time. Also, found many other ex-pats who thought and felt the same.

You don't have to be rich to do it, just extremely creative and really, really ready to be done with the mess.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Welcome to DU, conyersman! (Conyers, GA?)

I am looking at land in Costa Rica at the moment....

[femrap]

19. You are the second person I've heard of thinking of

going to Costa Rica....why there? I would like to go to Geneva Switzerland...all the international organizations and so CLEAN. And neutral. But they didn't give women the right to vote for a very loooooong time.

I guess every place in the world has its negatives.

I have always been so grateful to have been born in this nation. Those silly bumper stickers that say 'Proud to be American' should read 'Grateful to be American.'

I am just not willing to quit fighting yet....I think we have some momentum. I am, however, scared of the DLC.....I don't trust them either.

Sometimes I think it would be best to start a 'lifestyle' movement....one that is anti-consumer, pro-spiritual, ecological.....based on Happiness vs. Materialism. I have always had my number 1 goal in life as Happiness/Health......not Materialism.

I have talked to very rich people who are MISERABLE....which to some is hard to believe....but it is true. They are miserable people...they can buy whatever they want and they are so unhappy.

The Consumerism must stop....it is a disease IMHO.

[dogfacedboy]

27. All of the consumerism is just making

China into our future masters. The right wing has been selling us to China for a long time. These greedy fucks don't care.

[conyersman]

29. Marvalous México

I am here to share my expertise with people who want to leave the Axis of Evil.

I like to look at which countries have gotten World Bank Loans, because the first requirement of World Bank Loans is to surrender the countries' rights to water. By this leverage, the World Bank (Wolfwitz) can/does disenfranchize and subvert the national government, and of course this means an extension of Corporate Fascism.

I live in México, and we have already seen many, many people moving to México as refugees from this Fascist Regime, especially people from NYC, and now probably from the Katrina-hit states, since they have first-hand knowledge of the atroctities committed by this illegal regime.

[xchrom]

12. welcome!

so where did you go?

if i may ask -- we have other expats here as well.

[conyersman]

30. Marvalous México

Xchrom, I moved to México!! Much lower cost of living, gracious wonderful people from whom Americans could learn a lot!

I consider myself Méxican and not, I repeat NOT American, thank God.

[newyawker99]

33. Hi conyersman!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[conyersman]

36. Thanks for the Welcome

Yeh, I love being here with liberals. Newyawker99, are you in NYC? You know more than many of us the lies this Junta spreds. Lots of New Yorkers have fled, and are here in México.

[0007]

35. It is as stupid as "The Silence Majority" that Nixon rammed

into America's coconut in the 70's.

[DanCa]

8. Thier Flag is not my Flag - the flag of discontent

Thier Flag is not my Flag and I will proudly fly my to show the moronic right what the america left is allways about. That old glory stands for taken care of the least first, and the first last. That everyone has the rights to marry, and that the right to practice religion means that we dont have to practice the rights' interpetation of religion.And that the highest form of patriotism is disent.

And finally I fly old glory to remind them that the flag of the left is a grand ole flag and forever in peace may she wave. Why because if I stop flying the flag for the left the right will have finally co opted this country and I'll be damned if I let the right win.

[Ysolde]

10. IT is ethereal

and the false mantra of "love it or leave it" drives me crazy!

To me, the IT is so much more than a piece of land that even if I physically left "it", I wouldn't really have left. That "it" is the belief that ALL are equal and with equal treatment ALL will succeed. And, that "it" is what made the US such a beacon of hope for the world. And, the sheer magnitude of what those in power have done to that beacon and what it truly means to people everywhere is one of greatest tragedies of this mis-Administration.

I'm not eloquent and really can't express the depth of my anger at those who would abuse the ideals of this country for personal gain. The one thing those folks have done is forced me to get off my complacent behind and start fighting. I was steeped in the love of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and all of the responsibilities of being a citizen, but I really didn't do much more than vote before. So, now, I'm active in local Progressive groups and trying my darndest to get things turned around. So, those idiots who say "love it or leave it" have only inspired me to stop, turn around, and fight for "it". Hopefully, in the end, it'll be them with their bigotry, greed, and hatred that runs like the cowards that they are!

And, if anyone dared to say that to me, my answer is that "Our Founders were dissenters and if they'd listened to idiots like you, we'd still be singing God Save the Queen". Usually shuts them up!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. For someone who isn't "eloquent" you state your case... er, eloquently.

[kliljedahl]

15. You did just fine Ysolde

we don't need "eloquence" we need heart & you've got it.

[leanin_green]

24. Eloquent, indeed. n/t

[randr]

11. A footnote of history

It was Colin Powell's', a Colonel at the time I believe, first assignment to white wash a situation and kiss his future employers asses. He oversaw the investigation and prosecution of Calley, who ended up the scape goat for what was suspected as being a systemic practice. No further investigations of similar occurrences nor charges against anyone of higher rank followed.
The barbarians welcomed Mr. Powell to their ranks.

[GalleryGod]

13. I Believe you are correct.

He had the bucket of whitewash out on that one.:patriot:

[bonito]

16. Thanks for those thoughts, recommended n/t

[Fozzledick]

17. Earth: love it or leave it!

That's my reply to those who vilify environmentalists or dismiss the consequences of ecological damage.

If you don't like this planet, then go back to where you came from!

[The Doctor.]

18. Imagine what would happen if all the thoughtful, intellectual people left.

The country would implode.

After that, China would be perfectly happy to make it a territory. Their only problem would be dealing with all of the 'insurgents', of course.

[Gronk Groks]

20. For the reThug Trolls in the audience...

...you have convinced me to buy firearms and start target practice on a regular basis. I will NOT leave peacably...

Beware the convert pacifist...I do NOT want to start a un(civil) war, but I will not let you take my country without a fight...

[catnhatnh]

21. I DO love it and have no plan to leave it.....

....we PAID for it,my family and I....Grandpa Reilly-12 kids and a union man before it was popular,on strike against GE in the late thirties...newspapers with pictures of his five oldest girls walking a picket line with signboards (my mother and 4 aunts)....4 boys,3 of them veterans.On my Dad's side,Grandpa Allen an oysterman (and reputed rum-runner) who held together his family through the depression doing "whatever it took"...5 kids,4 boys, one of who died young and the other 3 veterans....1 WW2 and 2 Korean....My Dad a 40+ year diesel mechanic who lost his job after Reagan "deregulated" the trucking industry.....he finished his working years driving large trucks for long hours for short money, for flighty outfits.I was a child of the early 60's and remember our pride as we celebrated two new states,how a desk protected from nuclear strikes,what Camelot was and how to begin a "Great Society".....I protested Vietnam as a teen,even after my drafted brother served with the 101st airborne and served there and then JOINED because (I felt) that only then would I have the right to protest....Both my brothers and I began paying into social security young....we all had paying summer and after school jobs well before we were 16...my first payment was made at 14 in 1967.We worked our jobs and paid our bills and raised families....In short we did just what "they" said to be a full member of this society...Our generation launched 12 new children,invested them in our country.We will not sit by now while the social contract of our country is besmirched by those with darker dreams....we were born to and nurtured by a democracy of hope and vision...we have paid all our dues...we will neither run away from nor accept an oligarchy bent on dreams of twisted petroleum driven empire....it is OUR country and we WILL take it back...

[leanin_green]

22. It's like the NRA mantra you always hear, except. . .

if I was to say it, I would say, "You can have my country when you pry the Declaration of Independence from my cold dead hand."

[Redstone]

23. No, not "Love it or leave it."--It's "Change it or lose it."

Just in my opinion, of course.

But "Love it or leave it," as assholishly dimwitted as the statement is, is not within 100 miles of being as profoundly moronic as its idiot cousin of a statement: "My country, right or wrong."

I've long been astonished that there isn't a law providing for instant commitment to the nearest mental institution for anyone who says "My country, right or wrong" with a straight face.

Redstone

[Swamp Rat]

26. "Make me motherfucker!"

I tell 'em that but they are always too chicken to try to make me move to France. :shrug:

[zippy890]

31. HA! thanks for the laugh swampy - perfect freeper graphic

just a suggestion - some guns/deer carcasses

:hi:

[NMMNG]

28. I do love America--it's the neocon/ christofascist/ corporatist bastards

who are trying to control America that I hate. If they don't like me refusing to bow down to their ridiculous commands THEY can leave.

[zippy890]

32. blind patriotism will destroy our country

"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." George Orwell


"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." Thomas Jefferson


"Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong." James Bryce

Thanks for posting this TYJ, I was thinking about the Mi Lai massacre the other day.

We MUST hold these war criminal leaders accountable or we are truly doomed.

[davsand]

34. I argued with my Dad about My Lai and Calley.

How odd it should come up here because it was the first political argument I ever had with my Dad. There have been many more since then. In the heat of them all, however, I have never felt that I wanted or needed to leave this ideal that is the US. We are far from perfect, but the dream of what we CAN be still survives.

Anyone who tells me that I should leave the US since I am unhappy with the current policies (and remember--my discontent has a long history!) gets treated to a discussion of what the founding fathers were dealing with at the time they broke ties with England. I find that reminding people that our nation was born in dissent seems to slow down the "love it or leave it" crowd.

I also find that a discussion about the right to free speech and WHY it is essential to the survival of a representative democracy also tends to slow down the pseudo-patriots.

Nothing, however, shuts them up quite as fast as reminding them that men and women throughout our history have died and bled and wept in defense of this nifty collection of ideals called the "Bill of Rights" and the Constitution. Any refusal to honor that sacrifice by sitting down and sitting passively while we are governed defiles them all, and I refuse to do that. We OWE our ancestors better than that. We OWE our fallen soldiers more than that. We OWE our men and women in uniform right now a hell of a lot more than just voting on the odd election day.

I invite them to debate me or even discuss with me the differences in vision that we have for our nation, but I am dammed if I will ever let them silence me, or worse yet, tell me to leave.

We are all better than that, and if we aren't, then we have pissed all over those who came before us.



Laura