Study disputes claims about porn

[mongo]

Study disputes claims about porn
November 24, 2005 - 6:04PM

A new Australian study has cast doubt on the commonly held view that pornography shows women as nothing more than sex objects.

<snip>

"We were surprised at just how active and in control the women were in these videos," Prof McKee said.

"This study suggests that mainstream pornography in Australia doesn't represent women as sex objects, it shows them as active sexual agents."

The findings are part of a three-year government-funded study - the most comprehensive of its kind - on pornography in Australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Study-disputes-claims-about-porn/2005/11/24/1132703309481.html

[electropop]

1. How do you get that gig?

I mean, being paid to watch thousands of hours of porn. Not bad work if you can get it.

[Bob3]

2. these are of course only the preliminary findings

We need a lot more research to confirm these findings, a lot more.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Yeah, these guys get PAID??? To watch and view PORN...?WTF?

Sounds like Republicans to me....

Jerry Falwell used to get PLAYBOY...HOLY TERROR, Conway/Seigleman

those hypocritters, Jim Bakker...caught with Jessica, Jimmy Swaggert, caught with an ole homely ho, etc etc....these Pubs just love sex as much as the rest of us but hide in the closet....

Now, this paid to watch Porn?.....Damn

[Crankie Avalon]

5. In America, all you'd need to do...

...is take to the airwaves and mouth your outrage, afterwards.

"I just spent hours and hours watching easily accessible porn and I'm appalled at what I found! I will not stop monitoring this filth until it is purged from our culture!!! Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to be alone so I can be properly outraged while researching this plague some more..."

[madrchsod]

3. gee- that`s a no brainer

unless it`s some really sick shit, in most mainstream porn the women are in charge. to bad this isn`t the current thinking in the usa...

[opihimoimoi]

6. Annnnnd, for 3 friggen years to boot..... I iz in the wrong field....

[bammertheblue]

7. Makes sense,

if most mainstream porn is marketed for straight men to watch, they're going to want the focus to be on the woman, rather than on the man. He's just there so the woman has something to do, ha ha.

[mongo]

10. Especially since the movies were made in the USA

but if you hang around DU long enough, you'll get the impression that the only thing sold in the US is rape porn.

[electropop]

11. Women as sex objects is what freepers want.

Barefoot, pregnant, and submissive.

[Nay]

13. Yeah, too bad women can't be in charge where it might matter to

the world, rather than just to the guy getting his knob waxed.

[Double T]

40. While the rest of the world PROGRESSES, the usa continues to........

regress thanks to conservative and fundamentalist backward, hypocritical ideas and thinking.

[Mythsaje]

8. Not that this will change any minds...

I've gotten an education into the subject over the course of the last year or so...since my wife started as a book reviewer. The best selling line of e-fiction right now is "romantica" and "erotica"...that's romance with the sex scenes left in and flat-out erotic fiction. They are filled with studly vampires and alpha male werewolves and a host of other strange creatures.

As a general rule women are drawn to a different style than men are, but, believe me, there is very little chance that this stuff doesn't somehow fall under the "smut" category.

Women "objectify" men as well. The conversations that happen on some of the lists make this clear as day. As a general rule, however, men don't have a problem with this. Of course, one could complain that it's not fair to compare us with a suave and sophisticated french nobleman who can bench-press a car, but, hey, you work with what you got. LOL

These authors often take the notion of an "alpha male" and twist it around so that these alpha males bond exclusively with a single female partner...which kinda cancels out the "alpha male" factor in my head. Like my wife pointed out--alpha males are the ones you want to have a child with...while they go off to spread their seed you find a good "beta" to help you raise the child.

One of the complaints you hear about porn is that it raises unreasonable expectations in men--that they go out looking for these kinds of women. Well, how about the reverse? Do women go out looking for that perfect "alpha" male who doesn't exist, ignoring those guys who AREN'T obnoxious, philandering pains-in-the-ass, then bitch when the alpha they find doesn't live up to those expectations?

As you might guess, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this...

[CanuckAmok]

12. speaking as a Beta male...

I have to say it's not difficult to find a woman who fits into the "porno/centrefold" physical stereotype, but finding one who isn't a complete psycho B-word is another thing altogether. I agree that women have unreasonable expectations, too, just not necessarily as physically-based.

Now I'm dating again in my late-30s, I find most women I meet are either on the fast-track to repopulate the planet, or looking for a guy with a six-figure income and enough time to jet them off to his Belize retreat every weekend or so, except when volunteering his surgical skills at the local Childrens' Hospital and teaching orphans how to white-water raft doesn't conflict with his pilot's availability.

[Mythsaje]

15. My wife pointed out last night

what she sees as the difference between an alpha and a strong beta. An alpha wants to make the rules. A strong beta just ignores the rules others make while living by those he or she makes for him/her self....he or she isn't interested in making others conform to his or her rules.

The "beautiful" ones do seem a little crazy, don't they?

[Hello_Kitty]

34. Something you should understand

Is that women are under a lot of pressure from their families and friends to be with the "right" type of guy. Speaking as a woman who has been willing to go outside the norm - I've dated guys who are shorter, younger, from a different race, and who *gasp!* made less money - it's not easy to put up with the disapproval you face. "Why are with that loser?" "You can do better than him." "That's ALL he got you for Valentine's Day?"

I know guys feel pressured to be with women who look a certain way but I don't see people giving guys a hard time because their girlfriends don't fit the ideal in some other way. When I show up with the "wrong" guy on my arm, however, it's a different story. Lots of raised eyebrows and disapproval. At least it seems that way. :(

[Mythsaje]

39. With guys

it's more about the appearance, I think. And they're less likely to bring it up in the open because they don't want to be punched in the face.

My wife got a little of that when we met...I make considerably less money than she does. But, hey, I'm an artist, and my in-laws are very supportive nowadays. My mother-in-law actually bought three copies of my first novel...LOL

And besides, what, exactly makes a "loser?" Is there any real rationale for making that judgement? The question isn't whether the guy makes lots of money, but if he is willing to invest that money in a household, and behave responsibly toward the people that depend on him.

My take on it, anyway...

[pitohui]

23. laurel hamilton, anyone?

i'm still looking for that perfectly chiseled immortal viking vampire dude with the...oh waittagoddamnminute no sex threads...never mind!

[Mythsaje]

24. ROFL

You caught the reference, did you?

[Hello_Kitty]

26. You make a great point

Women are brainwashed with this idealized image of romance that bears no resemblence to real relationships. And of course we objectify men physically. We have eyes too, you know ;) That's why I don't agree with the notion that men are visually oriented while women aren't, or are less so. I often think women are even more critical of men's appearance. I know women who refuse to date a man who isn't taller than them.

One friend of mine will veto a man if he doesn't have big arms and well defined abs. She's an attractive woman, but she's no buff goddess. She also wants them to make at least 6 figures and be brimming with "confidence". Her laundry list is exhaustive. It should come as no surprise that she's a huge fan of fantasy, gothic, and romance fiction. Not that I'm generalizing about all enthusiasts of those genres but she has definitely taken them to heart with respect to her partner criteria. Basically, when you hear her talking about her ideal man, it's clear he doesn't exist. Makes me glad my taste in entertainment runs to non-fiction political books and independent films about messed up families :rofl:

[Mythsaje]

35. Setting impossible standards

is a trait some people would link to not really being interested in committing to a real relationship. I wouldn't say that, personally, but some might.

I've seen some solid evidence personally that many women are stimulated by the right personality than looks...one of the guys I know who always seemed surrounded by gorgeous women was tall, skinny, and balding, yet so confident that he could get just about any woman he wanted. <shrug>

Then again, I have a friend who can talk his way into and out of just about anything. He's a big guy and has a lot of female friends who tell him "you're just like a brother to me." He's told me if he had my looks he'd have no problem getting women. If I had his confidence and gift of gab, the same would be true for me.

Women are visual too. I know at least a dozen personally who go ga-ga over a man in a kilt. I've seen them virtually swoon over one of those romance cover models who showed up on an e-mail list.

I write on the edges of the genres you mention...my stuff is primarily sci-fi/fantasy, but I've learned a few things from the romance authors out there and I have some cross-genre fans now. Nothing wrong with that...but I'm not one for fostering illusions. My male and female protagonists tend to be on equal footing, and happily-ever-after tends to be a very elusive thing.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. The best, most sensible post ever about porn and male sexuality.

I applaud you.

[Mythsaje]

48. Wow...thank you. n/t

[Orrex]

45. I'd like to add something anecdotal

One of the complaints you hear about porn is that it raises unreasonable expectations in men--that they go out looking for these kinds of women. Well, how about the reverse? Do women go out looking for that perfect "alpha" male who doesn't exist, ignoring those guys who AREN'T obnoxious, philandering pains-in-the-ass, then bitch when the alpha they find doesn't live up to those expectations?

The notion that men are impelled to seek out hypersexualized stripper-goddesses as a result of viewing pornography is, bluntly, offensive. It paints men as stereotypically simplistic fornicators with no ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

You ask an excellent question about the corresponding stereotype, which receives much less attention because it doesn't mesh with the media's presuppositions and because the incidence of female-on-male rape is relatively low. Therefore it's difficult to correlate assumptions about sexual violence (by women) with erotica-driven fantasy.

Women are sex objects. And men are sex objects. We gain nothing from denying this except the denial itself.

[Mythsaje]

46. I completely agree...

I personally find the "stripper-goddess" porn stars rather UNattractive. Same goes for Pamela Lee whatsherface. I like strong, athletic types personally. Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider impressed the hell out of me because she was actually doing it.

My wife isn't particularly the athletic type--too many back problems, but she's definitely strong and capable.

[Withywindle]

49. What an excellent post...

...and very, very true.


You know, part of the problem in understanding this, I think, is that this study and others like it, and consequently the discussion as a whole, is that it's using a very male-focused definition of "porn." I say "porn," the assumption is I'm talking about movies and pictures. But I, and many many women smut fans I know, prefer stories. And we read and write the stuff in humongous quantities. I consume very little commercial porn--I don't disapprove of it or anything, it just very rarely connects with my own fantasies. I write my own and circulate it among like-minded groups of people (read: 95% women) on the internet, and read eagerly what said like-minded women also write.


BTW, I'm among that subset of women who can't enough smutty romance that involves the men getting it on with each other. This does not mean I expect my partner to do anything with other guys for my enjoyment (though of course if he ever someday expressed a desire to do so, we could surely work something out.....:evilgrin:)....the way I see it, fantasies are an outlet for what we DON'T have in real life. My theory about women who like m/m porn is that we're insanely curious about the one kind of sex we can never actually have. Therefore, fantasy and reality do NOT get confused.

[Mythsaje]

50. My wife's in that category too...LOL

And you make a lot of great points yourself.

[hwmnbn]

9. I'd need to see the raw data on that....eom

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. I somehow knew who wrote this post before I read it...

we have had this discussion before where I put in my thoughts that porn degrades women, and used the concept of women with two men as an example. And boy, I got trashed! So since then, I've had a lot of three-ways and...

nah... but I have at least acknowledged that my own morality is not everyone's and as long as they aren't spreading a disease that I will get, well... I'll shut up.

I will also admit that the porn I have seen is probably old, as I haven't seen any, really, in a number of years. But I draw the line at snuff-type films or anything that appeals to ANYONE'S juxtipositioning of erotica and violence. I know it is natural, but it is certainly one of those natural things we need to keep repressing in order to stay one step above the primates. (who are probably much nicer "people" than we are.)

[Mythsaje]

17. I'm probably as disgusted

by anything that portrays a conjunction between sex and violence as you are. Yet I know several people who are into that whole bondage and discipline thing and I have yet to figure it out. Not just men, but women as well. Dominance and Submission stuff weirds me out.

The two men and one woman thing? I'm not homophobic, but I could do without the distraction. At least if it's the other way around, I wouldn't be grabbing something I'm not really interested in grabbing.

[Occulus]

19. Most of the guys I talk to

who are into that M-M-F thing don't really have a problem with grabbing anything they don't want to grab, because, well, that's part of the point.

Pun not intended, but.....

[Mythsaje]

21. LOL...right.

Not my thing, personally.

[devilgrrl]

16. Don't the roles change depending on the kind of porn?

Because a lot of the unsolicited porno spam I've had to endure consists of "horny sluts" "sleezy teens" "slutty bitches", etc... Outside of mainstream porn there is some really degrading mean-spirited shit out there, no matter who's involved.

[Mythsaje]

18. The definition of "slut."

Someone who wouldn't sleep with YOU.

<eg>

To me the word "slut" is just misleading. Oh, a woman who likes sex. Good for her. That's MY reaction.

The "bitches" thing tends to really turn me off. The only outlet I can see for the stuff that's intentionally degrading is men who can't hold their own with women in the first place. It may sound weird but I'd rather watch an action flick with a girl kicking the guys' asses than one of these types of pornos.

Of course, I'm a bit odd.

[mongo]

20. Yeah, there is some nasty stuff out there

And as far as the porn spam goes -- I think that most of the time they are going for "shock value" when they write those spams. The porn they offer is probably much tamer than the ads make it seem.

Which is not to say that there is not some very distatesful, humiliating, degrading porn on the market - because there is. Honestly, there is porn for every market, taste, fetish, etc. imaginable.

But the biggest and most successful companies are producing porn that is more couple friendly.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. Is there any porn

specifically for women? Because men and women have different arousal patterns. Most porn I see seems very much aimed towards men. It starts with the action.

Anything with actual plot development, characterization, etc., but instead of imagining what happens when the camera pans to the fireplace, you get to see it all?

Now THAT is something I'd like to watch.

[pitohui]

25. er, isn't that what regular movies are for?

more recent movies are backing off the sex and are not as arousing but the older movies are still around

"crimes of passion" (kathleen turner) is erotic, kinky, sick, twisted, and has an actual plot development and characters

"blue velvet" etc.

i guess once you get into the 90s & 00s there isn't too much other than "mulholland drive" but the sexy films of the 70s and 80s still exist and are still as reliable a turn-on as ever

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. Yeah but how about

we get to see a big name actor actually DO the wild thing, and not a body double. I'm tired of looking at shapely buns. Let's see the whole enchilada.

God, I hope none of my kids' parents ever figure out this is me. I'm screwed if they do.

[Mythsaje]

28. I believe there is, actually...

I remember reading something a few years ago about a company set up by women, for women, to produce stuff specifically for their tastes. I can't remember the name of the company, though... But by now I assume there is more than one out there. I know there's a market for it.

[pitohui]

31. there's candida royale

not for me, tho

i'm afraid i'm a sick puppy, give me a re-run of the knife scene in blue velvet over couples-friendly porn any day



edited -- because how we can discuss this topic w.out a sicko picture grabbed from the internet by a psycho-female? :-)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. Candida?

Isn't that Latin for YEAST INFECTION?

[pitohui]

37. it sure is

and that is what has sprung to my mind every time for the last 20-plus yrs since i first heard of the lady

sad thing is, i'm reasonably sure that is not her real name, she actually picked that name

yikes

i shouldn't be so mean, she is trying to do something nice for women's sexuality and make some money, blah de blah, but just not my style

[mongo]

36. I think I'm in love

with your posts of course.:evilgrin: :loveya:

Really, you present a different and sex-positive viewpoint to every discussion I've come across.

A big Thank you for that!

I never saw the movie Blue Velvet -- do I need to see it to offer it as a comparable film if I'm ever involved in an obscenity trial?

[pitohui]

38. you just need to see it

you haven't lived until you've seen "blue velvet"

:-)

[mongo]

29. Do a search on Candida Royalle for starters

She is a performer turned director who now bills her movies as made "by women/for women".

She has a little more plot than most. Plot and porn doesn't really go together -- at least not a good plot. If you have 4 20 min sex scenes in a movie that doesn't leave much time for dialog, and let's face it people buy porn for the sex scenes.

Michael Ninn is another director you may find interesting, but he produces "artsy porn", and it can be very far out there sometimes, and a little dark to boot. Ninn Worx is his company.

Private Entertainment mostly releases movies made in Europe - where they have bigger budgets and more plot on average. The downside there is that you sometimes have to put up with VERY bad dubbing.

Hope this helps a bit.

[RandomKoolzip]

30. Most of Vivid's videos fall under this description.

As far as "plot development, characterization, etc." however, you WILL be disappointed. There hasn't been a decent actor in porn since John Leslie turned to directing.

[mongo]

42. Rent Space Nuts

It's 3 hours long with the sex scenes, so be prepared to watch it in a couple of settings.

There's some decent acting in there too - even if it is a comedy. Randy Spears should get his own sitcom.

[RandomKoolzip]

43. I saw it....stopped it after a half an hour.

I'm a fan of Stormy, so I'll watch anything she's in, but Jonathan Morgan and his typical cast members all seem to have this very outdated idea of what's funny. They were all playing it broad like the goddamn Ritz Brothers on viagra. Most "comedy porn" hits me in the same way, too...these putzes are just not capable of pulling off that kind of material.

Randy Spears is about as good as it gets re: acting in porn, but re-read that sentence and tell me if it makes you as sad as it makes me.

[mongo]

I always set my expectations low

when watching porn.

[NYCGirl]

47. I love Randy Spears! Although Mike Horner is my favorite.

A great character actor, and his sexual technique is awesome, too!

[Cerridwen]

41. "...1000 porn users, 87 per cent of them male"

"The project surveyed more than 1000 porn users, 87 per cent of them male. The unpublished results show 58.4 per cent felt porn had a positive effect and 6.8 per cent negative. Some other researchers say because the project's sample is self-selected any ashamed porn users probably did not participate."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/The-perils-of-porn/2005/02/03/1107228777880.html

I'm looking for another source as to the actual data used in this survey but there is precious little data - even at their own web site.
http://www.understandingpornography.info/home

[omega minimo]

44. On this morning after Thanksgiving

Al Franken's guest was a woman
discussing life under Taliban rule.
Women are being assassinated.
Professional outspoken women are being assassinated
for being professional outspoken women.
This includes leaders in the newly forming government.
Women are being assassinated at their homes
at their businesses
and at hair salons.
One woman was abducted and found murdered
wearing a head scarf that she never wore.
Professional outspoken women are being assassinated
for being professional outspoken women.

[blogslut]

51. Is this happening now?

n/t

[RandomKoolzip]

52. Because of porn?

I had no idea the Taliban allowed porn in Afghanistan. :shrug: