Who are the 35% that still support Bush?

[Swede]

No,really.

[Drum]

1. Annual incomes of 6-figures+, that's who.... n/t

[Selatius]

3. That's too few people you are singling out

Many of these guys, I suspect, are of ordinary means. It's probably true the vast majority of millionaires support Bush as well as billionaires, but if we were to single them out, they'd number only in the millions, not tens of millions. These voters are probably Republican because of their hardline views on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc. Nevermind issues of taxation.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. Yup.

Brainswashed by hate and militant religion.

Same people who think the world is only however many thousands of years old and wish that the we had a Christian Taliban government.

[eallen]

22. Sorry, boyo, but many of my colleagues make over $100K....

If you think they're all Bushies, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Seabiscuit]

28. Hey! You claimin' I'm part of that 35%??? Dem's fightin' words!

:)~

[leesa]

52. And the staff of the polling companies and media companies reporting it

[SW FL Dem]

54. We have a six figure income and don't support him

Neither do many of our friends and family who also have six figure incomes. People with 7-8 figure incomes may be different.

[rman]

59. I don't think that makes up 35% of the US population.

And definately not all of the Very Rich do support Bush.

Poor undereducated misinformed (optinally religious fundamentalist) folks make up a more sizable portion of the population.

[Raine]

76. No

my cousin still has a chimp/cheney bumpersticker on her car and her and her husband are just plain old working stiffs, go figure. :shrug:

[MANative]

98. I'm in that income category...

and I sure don't support those clowns. There are many of my colleagues who are also in the same income level who feel the same way as I do. The few who do still support Bush seem to be people with a fundie bent.

[lonestarnot]

2. This is a myth perpetuated by the stupid.

[rurallib]

4. Those who have Fux as their main source of 'news'

[SpiralHawk]

42. Make that those who have Faux as their only source of news

that would include my itchy brother, a full-on neocon who thinks the Wall Street Journal is a liberal pinko rag.

He worships at the feet of Oxy Rush, Felafel O'Reilly, and War Hero Bush. His response to any facts about BushCo malfeasance and incompetence: you guessed it, Bill Clinton's fault.

I'm sure he has hauled his 300 lb. ass down in his basement now, after having engorged himself at the T-Day table, polishing his collection of guns (he's got about 30 of them to fend off any liberals from Assaulting His Dinner Table and making off with a crumb).

[gulliver]

5. One possible breakdown

10% Will support anyone who is president
5% Support both Bush and abortion clinic bombers
10% Dumber than bag of hammers
10% Very stubborn suburbanites. Lost a fortune on Cisco for same reason.

[MUAD_DIB]

11. You insult hammers everywhere.

They, at the very least, have a purpose.

[Skittles]

43. yeah but a bag of them?

you only need one :D

[Protagoras]

61. I think the bag of hammers crowd is larger

and overlaps most of the other catagories

[non sociopath skin]

6. You'll find some of them here ....

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/sterlingtimes?forum=6524

Be afraid! Be very afraid!!

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

The Skin

[noahmijo]

7. All of my pasty faced neighbors

To these people I'm probably a drug induced hippie....all because my hair's a little longer than a typical guy's and I wear clothes from Old Navy :P

Last week when Malloy talked about how these Republicans are just this amazing kind of white that you don't see anywhere else well that's my entire freeper neighborhood.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Those with snotty nosed kids too good for the Iraq debacle.

[MUAD_DIB]

9. I'm not sure that the number is accurate.

Do you believe that Prezdent Monkeynutz won both elections?

or even one?


The corp media is too invested in this clown to admit their duplicity so they have to give him some favorable rating no matter how low it is.


Happy Thanksgiving DU!

[Liberal Veteran]

10. Very wealth people, people who think they are really wealthy,

, people who are brainwashed by forms of Christianity that seem to ignore anything Jesus might have said, bigots, greedy corporatists, self-loathing "gay" republicans who think kissing up the enemy will work, really stupid people who think Fox News is fair and balanced, etc...

Oh, and the 101st Chairborne division that thinks blowing thinks up is really cool.

[Mend]

12. judging by bumper stickers: anti-abortionists, red-necks

with their confederate flag decals, pro-war racists (but don't join up themselves).

[KharmaTrain]

13. Watch Faux Noise...They Distort You Wretch...

There's still millions who turn on that electronic sesspool constantly and get all the lies and talking points they'll ever need. It's sooooo easy to tell these people now as they spew the talking points without having any context on those points or even knowing what they're even saying.

There's a segment in this country that has always valued being arrogant and ignorant...they call this "strength". They bully others with threats and lies to force their submission or shout out their opponents...spreading fear and hate. For some, that fear and hate message carries louder, means more and feels better than one of hope and growth.

[kineneb]

111. "Idiot America"

There's a segment in this country that has always valued being arrogant and ignorant...they call this "strength".

An long article I read had the perfect name for them: Idiot America.

-Willing to belive anything their church/political leaders tell them.
-Lead around like sheep.
-Left their crayons outside the church door.

[Toots]

14. Angry White Man

Hatred is motivating factor and those Ditto heads are filled with hatred. Usually it is people that need to feel like they are somehow superior to the lessor beings and the lessor beings are trying to bring them down to their level. They are wayyy better than the normal folk and support programs and people that make it all right to feel this way...It is after all the "American Way" Americans are a "Superior People"

[Deja Q]

17. I'm an angry white man. And I don't support what's going on!

Offshoring, indolence by the president, et al...

[entanglement]

48. Plenty of angry(?) white women in it too (think Jean Schmidt)

n/t

[whalerider55]

15. the pardoned turkeys of thanksgivings past... n/t

[Deja Q]

16. The wealthy and the idiotic. Wealthy idiots too.

[eallen]

18. Read freeperville. It's the religious right.

[MsConduct]

19. The rich, his cabinet, the fundies and assorted other ill informed

and illiterate dolts.

[Gemini Cat]

21. Soft white dumplings.

Both the male and female. You'll find them squealing like a pig about abortion, gay people, women and all else in your local mega church.
Fearful fuckers with-out one brain cell to rattle among the whole lot of them.

[LondonReign2]

68. Yes, it is the religiously insane, more so than the wealthy

From those I see, it is primarily the God, Guns, and Gays crowd that are the bedrock of his support. There is certainly a certain segment of the greedy wealthy, but I am guessing that a lot of the 15%-20% Chimpy has lost in the last few months are actually relatively wealthy but typically independents.

[gorbal]

23. My aunt and uncle support Bush

I love them very much, they have kind hearts and have done allot to help me, but whenever I point out to them they are wrong (about anything, not just politics) they assert they are right anyway and that is that.

One the one or two times I tried to debate my uncle and I thought he was going to have a heart attack, he got so worked up. I have learned to be more subtle with them and I think my approach is working. They have been secretly telling my dad they aren't so crazed about Bush anymore. (They'd probably still vote for him if he was up against a democrat, but it's a start)

They also tend to watch Faux News and get their news from the radio, sigh.

[Selatius]

27. A little bit of advice I picked up along the way:

When somebody is asleep, nudge him softly to wake him.

He will be angry and less willing to listen to you if you came in and start screaming at him, figuratively speaking.

[Newkophile]

24. Just remember what the "R" in Republican stands for

The right wing (or reactionary), the religious, the racist, the revolver or rifle, the right to life, and, of course, the rich. There's more than enough of those to constitute 35%.

[etherealtruth]

29. I think you've got it ...

Welcome to DU

(I'll probably be stealing you "R's" in conversation:))

[Celeborn Skywalker]

25. The rich, the bigots, and the fundamentalists. (nt)

[lpbk2713]

26. Fundies, Haliburton stockholders, and hardcore rethugs.

They will do whatever they can to make the BFEE look good, even though they know he makes it difficult for them to do so.

[Rocknrule]

30. Here's the breakdown:

-Those who support * solely out of fear that there will be another 9/11 the second we no longer have his enormous balls protecting us from terra (the largest group)
-The religious nutbags who think that * is the second son of God
-People who have always voted Republican and haven't noticed that the GOP is now the dark side
-Racists, sexists, people who hate non-Christians, and especially homophobes
-Rich people
-Dumb rednecks
-Women who think Bush looked hot in the flight suit
-People who think the 2nd Amendment is the only important part of the Constitution
-Those who really are evil and truly want to destroy the world

[w8liftinglady]

31. Fundie soccer moms in Ellis county,Tx

all have "W" stickers...

[Thirtieschild]

32. For starters, my fundie sister and even fundier brother-in-law

Also the 52 Texans I graduated from h.s. with over 50 years ago...my rich ex son-in-law in Georgia and my even richer cousins in Colorado. Summing them up, the fundies, the rich and wanna-be richer, and let's not forget the don't-know-how-to-think-never-had-a-real-thought-of-their-own RWs.

[pitohui]

33. the stupid will always be with us

half of all americans are less than average in intelligence, while there are certainly some good-hearted stupid people (pam anderson or prince charles might spring to mind) it is more difficult on average for stupid people to have enough imagination to empathize with others and not be just out for self

rich stupid people are responsible for 90 percent of the evil in the world in my view

[WI_DEM]

34. My cousin who is a grad student, of all things!

and should know better, but he thinks that W is the second coming of Churchill.

[depakid]

53. Wow

I guess a college education (or grad school) ain't what it used to be.

I've yet to meet a grad student who admits to supporting Bush. I'm sure there must be a few here in Oregon- not sure what departments they'd be in...

[KerryOn]

35. Three of them work with me...

Two of them are beyond hope, and I can no longer talk to them. The other one still has hope. I just gave him a copy of William Pitt's "War On Iraq" to read over the long holiday weekend. I tried to give it to him a year and a half ago, but he refused to even look at it. This time he promised to read it. Its a little late, but maybe it will help turn him around.

If it does open his eyes, then he has promised to pass the book on to one of his friends.

[Cats Against Frist]

36. I am so blessed to not know any, so I have no firsthand account

My family is Dem, my friends are Dem, and the two places between which I split my time are Seattle, and the bluest county in Iowa.

I do know "of" a couple, though -- my best friend's dad, who has always voted GOP, a couple that are friends with my mom, who are completely clueless country-club socialites, and my best friend's uncle, who lives in a McMansion in Northern Washington, and is SUPER-RELIGIOUS of the zombie evangelical stripe (He has five kids, three adopted Romanian children, two of which are in jail, and two daughters: one who got knocked up at 19, and one who tried to kill herself).

I know plenty of people who are racist, bigoted, anti-gay, gun owners, SUV drivers and make a lot of money, and none of them support Bush.

I don't know what brings together all of the people who do. Party ID is still the MAJOR factor in supporting candidates, and voting. I would say that those who most closely have a "Republican narrative," and have a history of voting for the GOP are probably some of his clinging supporters. I suspect clueless GOP moderates probably play a larger role in this than the "identity" groups of angry white males, evangelicals, 2nd amendment zealots, etc. Not that they don't play a role, though.

[MisterP]

37. a big part is the 25% who want Muslims interned or to register

their names and jobs and allow spies into their mosques and charities

[Lautremont]

38. It's guys like this:

[Swamp Rat]

39. These creatures:

:D

[alfredo]

63. Found another

freeper Olympics

[_dynamicdems]

79. Kin to these folk, perhaps?

[LaPera]

40. Make that 34% and dropping!!!

[Rhiannon12866]

41. I've wondered this every time I hear it.

All I can figure is that they have just emerged from comas...:shrug:

[VOX]

44. How do * supporters not feel embarrassment or shame?

I imagine that some of the wealthy, cynical * supporters must cringe when their boy adds yet another public gaffe, stunt or dipshit behavior to a long, long list of same.

But the hard-core, religious types who thinks * walks on water -- how far from reality are those people, that they can't see through this phony? Do they perceive him as competent? On **what** basis can * be defiined as competent?????? How do they reconcile all the right-wing cronyism and profiteering?

It is flabbergasting to think that so many are willing to turn a blind eye to the truth -- unless they are truly crazy. :scared:

[Jara sang]

45. Bitter-enders in their last throes.

[kliljedahl]

47. Uh Oh

Not last throes, this may get violent

[WritingIsMyReligion]

51. "How long is a last throe?"

:D :D :P

[kansasblue]

46. white, rural, males,

[WritingIsMyReligion]

49. The 35% with their heads up their asses. nt

[Mr_Spock]

50. Morons, psychopaths and mental defectives...

There's no other explanation...

[Initech]

55. The rich people who got their much-needed tax breaks...

:puke:

[Terran1212]

56. My District in Georgia

"2nd most republican district in america"

Should read "2nd most stupid district in america"

[abluelady]

57. My guess is

the rednecked, gun totin' Virginians who are my neighbors.

[belle]

58. 1) Superrich and/or shortsighted greedheads

2) The fearful, the cowed, and/or lost folk who had a "snap" after 9/11 and haven't come back from it

3) Fundamentalist reactionaries who are still snowed by Bush's "godliness"

4) Authoritarian personalities (that would be the baseline and the common bond at freeperland, among others)

5) People who aren't paying attention, even now.

5) are the people you want to concentrate on talking to. The others might be swayed, but it won't be by anything you can do or say. (The fundies--some of them--are already becoming disillusioned with him; the Miers thing was an insult they won't forget even if Alito gets in. Some of the "Bush kept us safe" people might still see the light, but at this point it's more a question of when they're ready to than any lack of evidence, or availability of such evidence. The brownshirt base starts to break up when they see their fuhrer as weak, which partly accounts for the snowball effect of his downward turn. As for the happy "have-mores"--well, they won't abandon him, unless someone more stable comes along, of course. But then, their value was never in the size of their voting pool, anyway).

[Hamlette]

60. give it up with the rich already

and look at the poll breakdowns from the last election. A higher percentage of protestants voted for Bush than did rich people. And a MUCH higher percentage (78%) of born agains voted for Bush than did rich people (63% of those earning over $200K per year, 58% of those earning 100K to 200K)

Those who still believe are the religious...IMO. If you can believe in god you can believe in anything (ie that Bush is a good president.)

[marions ghost]

65. 58-63%

is fairly strong support of Republicans by the rich.

The rich (and wannabe rich) will always vote for the best bottom line for themselves, no matter what they may say otherwise. The rich generally don't have much understanding of any community beyond their own insulated Republican-dominated havens. Anything they do for others tends to be lordly and patronizing and usually consists of a few tax-deductable contributions.

It's entirely appropriate to assume that in general the rich are firmly hitched to the Republican bandwagon, though they may dislike the current pResident. There will be a negligible loss from this group in the next election.

[Hamlette]

67. you admit that your argument is wrong yet you stick with it

if "the rich will always vote for the best bottom line for themselves" why do 42% of them vote Dem?

Think JKF, think FDR. Both were "filthy" rich and both were liberal dems. As were their whole families. Bobby? Teddy? Vote for a republican? Wash your mouth out.

Some of us don't give a squat about our bottom line because we don't have to. And we strongly believe in the saying "those to whom much is given, much is expected."

[marions ghost]

70. sorry

but I don't see it. Show me the 42% of the rich who vote Democratic. Where does this statistic come from? The obscenely rich people I know don't give much to others at all. They are primarily concerned with getting. They pay virtually nothing in taxes, and just do feel-good contributions when they are so inclined. They are incredible tightwads. That's my experience.

Maybe rich Democrats need to do something to improve the image, if you're so different from Republicans, because if you're doing your share, it's not obvious. The idealism of the Kennedys is WAY back there in forgotten history (also people got killed for it). Where are the rich Democrats making any difference now? Most are quite happy to go along with the DLC or Repug-lite. Are there any obscenely rich Dems fighting to pay more taxes? I think not.

Anybody who doesn't "give a squat about their bottom line because we don't have to"...doesn't really live in the real world, in a world of incredible scarcity and increasing disparity. I don't know how you made your money, but no American corporation now pays a fair share of taxes. There are not too many ways to justify having an obscenely excessive share of the riches in a system as corrupt as ours.

[Hamlette]

71. could it be that you are prejudiced?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

I only know one obscenely rich person. At least well enough to know where/how he spends his money. He is not the same as the rich people you know.

The rest of my friends are comfortable. Most of us are lawyers and made our own money. They don't fit your model either. Liberal, generous, hate tax cuts for the "rich" even though we/they would benefit. None of us is a tightwad.

Do we contribute to charity? yeah. We pay lots in taxes. Certainly our fair share. We also contribute the max to as many demo candidates as we like.

Yeah, JFK is dead but Teddy is around as is...Kerry? He's .... rich. Very rich. As is Jon Edwards. And Bob Graham and Howard Dean. http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=1

Oh, yeah, and 18 of the 40 millionaires in the Senate are Democrats. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jul2003/sen-j07_prn.shtml

List of rich people against tax cuts for the rich? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0408-06.htm

Maybe we can't improve our image because people don't listen to us. Or believe we exist? Or we don't have the microphone, or people forget the Kerry and Edwards are rich and the vast majority of movie stars are and they do their share. What more do you want George Clooney to do? Or Soros?

[marions ghost]

74. Of course I am prejudiced against those who profit

excessively in this society, e.g.:

"Congress passed the fourth Bush tax cut in four years, and it included a reduction in corporate taxes. The day before, Citizens for Tax Justice reported 82 percent of the largest U.S. corporations paid no tax in at least one of the past three years. Something is wrong there." (from your Responsible Wealth org link)

Thanks for the links.

I see that the Responsible Wealth Organization has only been around a short time and gives good lip service but we'll see what they actually DO about the problems. The jury's out on them. Since this org is so strongly associated with Bill Gates, I have to be suspicious. Maybe it's just a PR ploy to make people think that Microsoft is more noble than Wal-Mart?

Good question--OK to answer: I want George Clooney and Soros, et. al. to do a LOT more. People like that could make so much difference in the things that are consistently ignored by the government...such as (to name a few)--backing a truly progressive media outlet, putting some muscle and money into alternative energy, backing mass transit initiatives, healthcare reform, election reform, campaign finance reform, job training, etc. How about somebody working on consumer rights and the white collar crime that is crippling the nation? But Nooo...these rich Dems tend to sit back and support DLC policies--you know--the Democratic approach to 'trickle on' economics. Pile the deficit on future generations. Meanwhile invest in wineries and real estate just like Republicans. The obscenely rich John Kerry I suppose was trying to make a difference by getting elected...but thanks to our abysmal election system all we got was noble campaign promises. John Edwards advocates for the poor directly and that is admirable but unusual. Bill Clinton made $9 million in speaking engagements last year...just going to pay legal bills? Teddy Kennedy is a throwback to the old days unfortunately and has next to no successors. NOBODY 'forgets' that Kerry and Edwards are rich...but considering what these people could do--It's. Just. Not. Good. Enough.

From your article about the number of millionaires in the Senate I note how many of them do not declare their entire income. However we all know that to even obtain a house or senate office in the US one must be very rich. The last line of that article is telling:

"This social layer of millionaires and near-millionaires in the US House and Senate pushed through the Bush administration’s massive tax cut for the rich, while somehow dropping the much touted per-child tax credit for families with incomes less than $20,000. Both Houses recently also approved a “reform” of Medicare that in reality guarantees no prescription drug benefits for American seniors."

------------------
We are arguing this in a backwater here, Hamlette, and I'm sure you could present endless arguments for your position, which I could only parry. If you and your friends know that in your hearts you're "doing your share" ...well I don't have enough facts to rebut that. Only you know if that is true or not. Meanwhile I stand by my previous statement:
"There are not too many ways to justify having an excessive share of the riches in a system as corrupt as ours."

[Hamlette]

84. telling it like it is

here's what happens:

You insult me and all of my friends without knowing who we are but saying you hate us anyway. That no matter what we do it is just not good enough for you. So, no matter what I say, you'll hate me. Fine, like I care. But, here's what happens, I stop talking to you because all you do is insult me. Without even knowing who I am.

And, we take out marbles and go elsewhere because we do not like to be blamed for a problem that we had nothing to do with and have been fighting to fix.

Then you don't even have the $75 million Soros gave to defeat Bush or great movies like Good Night and Good Luck.

I have NEVER tried to "justify" my riches. There is no way that I can. I know I got them primarily from great luck. And I am grateful. In fact, I believe the difference between Dems and Repubs is that Dems feel grateful and Repubs feel entitled.

And if only you knew our stories you would be ashamed of yourself for all of the insults you have hurled my way. (There are few people in this country who were rasied in the kind of poverty my parents, my father in particular, were. It might even shock you. Oh, and I'm a poverty lawyer, first as a public defender and now welfare. But my story is not the half of it. Most of us have similar or more impressive stories. Of course, as you say, "It's. Just. Not. Good. Enough.")

So, keep insulting us. Keep running us off. Just because you hate us without knowing who/what we are all about. I'll be anxiously watching to see how you do it without us. Good luck.

[marions ghost]

86. Gee for a lawyer

you are awfully thin-skinned. This is just a message board where people air their views. It is by nature an impersonal medium since of course I cannot know you or even be certain if you are who you say you are.

Nowhere have I insulted you personally and I certainly wouldn't waste energy in "hating" anyone. I attempted to rebut your arguments and put forth my perspective about how rich Democrats have let the rest of us down. It's not hate nor envy on my part--it's profound disappointment --at the lack of vision of Democrats with money and influence. The DLC embodies that lack of vision, but it is prevalent in general. Particularly in areas in which the neo-con controlled government has been negligent or even criminally negligent, such people with resources could make a huge difference. While the poor need direct help, the downtrodden middle class needs some reason to hope. These are very bleak times for all but the rich.

Maybe you personally have done great things in your poverty law career--but overall the picture re. Democrats is not impressive. I think mine is a fair argument--that wealthy people of any political persuasion must justify their excessive riches in a system as corrupt as ours, in a world as full of inequity as ours. The degree of exploitation and corruption and corporate irresponsibility in the US is so great that everyone who profits greatly from the system is complicit. One may be complicit in a moral sense, while being free of any 'legal' wrongdoing.

You have given me further insight into the defensiveness and righteousness of rich Dems. If you take your fabulous 'marbles' and go elsewhere' then I guess we'll just have to do without. Your threats to do that reflect a sense of superiority and entitlement. I can't imagine that one person on a liberal message board would make you think that way--obviously I'm just the convenient receptable for a lot of pent-up bile. Why don't you write a book since you seem to have so much to say about this? Maybe you could educate people like me instead of being "run off" and licking your wounds. I realize that I'm just giving you an excuse to feel righteous. How about considering something more productive?

[Hamlette]

93. whatever, dude

I need to correct one thing. My marbles will never go to a cause I cannot support. I just won't hang around and have serious discussions about politics with people who insult me.

Yeah, and some of us have feelings. Lawyers even. Imagine that.

Why the hell can't Democrats start talking about how to "get" the bastards instead of spending all our time insulting each other? Attack my views, not who I am. That was frankly my point.

[marions ghost]

100. So how do you propose to "get the bastards," dude?

I'm all ears on your suggestions for how to do that. But it seems like all you want to talk about are your marbles. I can understand how you may not ever find a worthy recipient. Must be quite a dilemma. As for lawyers needing sympathy...I'm familiar with lawyers and have some in my family, including one judge. Some lawyers have feelings and some don't. Some are OK and have integrity, while some are bad and use their profession for malice and excess personal gain. I don't make any particular assumptions about that.

So how can people like you and people like me "work together?" I agree, not much productive dialogue going on here.

[Hamlette]

107. Humm. You ask for my ideas at the same time you insult me again.

I suspect you have no interest in working together but rather finding ways to further insult me. I'm sure you can understand why I'm not interested.

The problem with prejudice is the "Bowling Alone" syndrome. If you assume, for instance, that rich people don't care ("always vote the bottom line" "all you want to talk about are your marbles") then you never get to know people who are "different". You will end up in the same kind of echo chamber Bush is in. You might even miss out in knowing some people who enrich your life.

Saying I don't vote the bottom line doesn't mean I don't vote my own self interest. I think the world would be better off it we showed more respect for all people, including those who have less than we do. And that it diminishes us as people when we don't. I'm also a big proponent of education, peace and the environment but poverty is probably my big issue.

I started this thread by saying stop attacking the rich. I thought the conversation would center identifying the 35% so we could then reach them. I think the problem has more to do with Republicans thinking liberals are evil and finding a way to convince them we are not what they think we are. You see, they have prejudged us, without knowing us. Which means they don't even listen to us. It doesn't help solve the problem by doing the same to them.

I'll keep doing my thing. Which includes spending my life working full time for/with the poor and giving as much money as I can to the underprivledged and my party. And being grateful and thankful that I have been so lucky to have gotten to this place.

[marions ghost]

108. I've come into contact with many rich people

and that is how I've formed my opinion. Those rich people who are 'different' or concerned about the Big Picture or however you want to define caring about anyone other than themselves and their associates, are the MINORITY (that minority may well include you).

Our political situation certainly reflects the truth of this statement at this juncture in US history. The policies of the present government could not be more cynical or self-serving. That's my main point. As for your feeling under-appreciated, you will not improve peoples' prejudices or their judgment of you by tactlessly braying about what you're going to do with your marbles.

[immoderate]

62. Racists, Homophobes, Fundamentalists, Plutocrats...

I should say that what I mean by plutocrats is a type of thinking that accedes that only the wealthy are fit to rule. This thinking, favoring plutocracy, is not necessarily that of wealthy people, just those who think that wealthy people should rule. Some of these people are dirt poor, and see themselves as inferior.

--IMM

[neebob]

64. Nice Mormon ladies from Utah

who only watch Fox News and get all kinds of dumb ideas to add to the ones they already have - my mother is one of them - and half a dozen of my co-workers whose reasons I couldn't guess.

[Hello_Kitty]

89. I think Mormon's can be reached

The Chimperor's policies are way outside the LDS ethic of community and charity. I've talked to more than a few Mormons (there are many who live here in AZ) who are troubled by the war. One woman, a neighbor of a fellow Dem activist in Mesa, said she now believes that * and Cheney are wolves in sheep's clothing. Years ago, Mormons were heavily Democratic

[neebob]

92. You're probably right about some Mormons

but not my mom. With her it's a denial thing that's hard to explain. Changing her mind about Bush would involve questioning so many things that she'd have to rethink her entire life and reason for being here, and she's just not willing to do that. It's a lot bigger than her religious beliefs, but those are kind of like the glue that holds it all together in her mind.

She used to be a Democrat, too, before my dad dragged her into the Mormon church. I remember her saying she she was a Democrat and arguing with Dad about politics, but she denies it now. A lot of it is about him. She's spent decades convincing herself that he was right and turning him into this god-like Superman character that no one else ever met and writing the mental history that enables her to be okay with how her life turned out. It's an enormous wall. I've poked a few tiny holes in it, watched her peek through and then quickly fill them back in because she doesn't like what she sees, and concluded it's not worth it. It's too painful on both sides.

The only way my mom will ever question Bush and his war is if Sean Hannity and the other Fox News scumbags that she idolizes start doing it. And then there'd have to be some alternative who fits her ridiculously distorted picture of a leader - say, Mitt Romney? I don't know where he stands, but everyone else who fits this twisted bill is solidly behind Bush.

We're talking about someone who, just the other day, told me Dick Cheney "just seems like a really nice guy." It's the lostest lost cause imaginable.

[Hello_Kitty]

95. Wow!!

Dick Cheney a nice guy? Yeah, I see your point there. Your mom's only hope is to be kidnapped by deprogrammers. My mom was the same way with my step-dad. She wasn't political at all, thank Gawd, but I used to marvel at how she would defer to him and adopt his worldview as her own. It was never "I think...", it was "Rick thinks..." Drove me crazy.

I think you also make a cogent point when you say it's about more than religion for these people. Religion is a smokescreen. Look behind it and you find people that are just very afraid of the unknown. Rules, dogma, blind obedience, and rigidly prescribed roles appeal to their need for comfort and security.

[neebob]

97. Yep, Dick Cheney seems like a really nice guy.

It's mind-boggling. You're right on about the comfort and security thing. One day I decided to inform my mother that I don't believe in God and attempted to explain why. The speed with which she accused me of trying to shake her faith suggested it's not that solid. At one point she said, "I need a reason to be here."

[Gregorian]

66. Human placeholders.

Zero is a number.

edit- I hate posting bullshit. What I mean is uneducated. Or ignorant. The careless. It spans all incomes. America has become an ignorant wasteland. Dumbed down. Cops. Baywatch. Fox. Just say no. Better living through chemistry. Have you ever been, or are you a member of the Communist party?

Actually, it's always been that way. From the first native American we killed. To the first atomic bomb dropped on a city. To flame throwers. To cluster bombs. To depleted uranium.

It's about comfort. Ease. And those who buy it hook, line and sinker. Some rise above, and look for the landscape. But when the media becomes contorted. When it lies. Then it makes it even more difficult to see reality.

A neighbor summed it up nicely- We're in Iraq to keep the unruly Arabs under control. There's your 36%

[Jamison]

69. Pure white trash.

Yes, they can also be white trash even if they have a lot of money.

[LucasD]

72. Eh.....

my mother, my sisters, my coworkers. And my mother
and sisters make less than $30K a year. I can only
assume that they have been brainwashed by the "liberal"
media.

[parhelion]

73. Can't Explain

While there are plenty stereotypical racist redneck bush-lovers here in South-Central PA, my wife and I also have a number of relatives and co-workers who still support Bushitler. They may not be Rhodes Scholars, but they certainly don't fit the "moran" stereotype either, and they aren't obscenely rich (most are white middle class.) The really scary thing is that most of them are genuinely nice people. This is a constant source of bewilderment for me. I refuse to talk politics with these people (because I simply can not be civil at this point) so I guess I'll never understand. Some observations: In the one of the most blatant examples of irony I've ever seen, many of these people seem to feed on an "outsider" vibe; they feel as if the "mainstream" is against Bush and the Republicans, with the "liberal media" being the biggest offender. I have no doubt this is fueled by Limpball and Faux News propaganda. In general they take mainstream media at face value. Most aren't avid internet users, beyond email and online shopping. And above all, they seem to have that pseudo-libertarian mentality about not wanting anyone to get a "free handout" from the government while they work and pay taxes. Generally speaking, they are willing propaganda tools. They believe because it's easier.

[Lengsel]

75. come unto me

Come to my city, I can show you 140,000 of them.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

77. I can account for 97,000

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=HAL

Full Time Employees: 97,000

[donheld]

78. These are the people whom

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Rush think for.

[NMMNG]

80. Idiot sycophants and uber-rich people who don't give a damn about others

[FM Arouet666]

81. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

GOP hold outs, the walking dead...........

[formactv]

82. The ones I know are not well off and resent those on welfare

[wellst0nev0ter]

83. George Wallace Voters

those who voted for him and those who would vote for him.

Remember, in 1968 Nixon and Humphrey got roughly the same percentages of votes while Wallace got 12 percent.

Guess where those Wallace voters are now?

[mwb970]

85. It seems to be mostly the ignorant and the super-religious, no?

To support Bush at this late date, you would have to either (a) not know what is going on, or (b) not care.

The ignorant are mostly in group (a) with the Fox viewers, Rush listeners, etc. They are being kept in the dark about reality and seem to like it that way.

The super-religious are mostly in group (b). Logical arguments about Bush's unbroken string of manifest failures, preceding even his presidency, just bounce off these people. Their world is based on fantasy and myth. Reality is not welcome.

I think the wacko-rightie Christians form the bulk of his support at this point. After all, if you wanted to pick a group in America to fool with outrageous lies and false stories, who better than the super-religious? It sure ain't gonna work on college professors.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

87. Amazing how often those two mix, isn't it?

There MUST be a connection, somehow.

[renie408]

91. OUCH...yet sadly true. n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

101. Yup, that's me, the OUC H master.

I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

[Hello_Kitty]

88. Sadly, still the majority of Republicans

The brainwashing has gone too deep and also there's the problem with admitting you're wrong about something. That's human nature. We need to convince them that they can extricate themselves from * while saving face.

[countingbluecars]

90. The same 35%

who believe that "Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church." (from SNL)

[leftchick]

94. My mother, sister, sister, sister

and whacked out nephews. :(

[methinks2]

96. dumbasses and the few who have stock in oil

or in the various war machines.

[AngryAmish]

99. Poo-eaters.

[TheMightyFavog]

102. I can name a few...

1. The fundiebots, of course, especailly those of the dominionist persusion.

2. People living in fear of terrorism

3. People I call "Taxaphobes" These are the kind of people, who no matter how much money they make believe they have a god-given right to every red cent that they make and that they should not be obliged to give any of it to the government, especailly when they spend it on stuff that they do not believe in, whetyer it be socail programs, road construction projects, or teacher slaries and benefits.

4. People who have still not forgiven Bill Clinton for the myraid of sex scandals that he was involved in while in office.

[TheMightyFavog]

104. Garrison Keillor has something to say about this...

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong's moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. - "We're Not in Lake Wobegon Anymore", In These Times, August 26, 2004

[sandnsea]

103. Democrat haters

Those who hate gun grabbers, tax hikers, molly-coddlers, meddlers, and seculars; their vision of the Democratic party and they'll support Bush as long as that's their view of the alternative. And maybe it's just something that has to be accepted and cut loose.

[Bouncy Ball]

105. I think that number is a bit lower in reality

but to answer your question:

1. the extremely insulated repuke

2. the extremely hateful repuke

3. the extremely deluded repuke

and sometimes, of course, you find all three in one person.

[SoCalDem]

106. The same 30 percent or so who were the core Clinton-haters

They are a vocal minority who are touted as a majority on the "liberal media"..

It's magic.. A minority morphs into a majority just by people SAYING it over and over..

[Red1]

109. Personalities that

don't read the newspapaers

don't believe that American corps would sell their mothers for an appropriate compensation

don't believe that all people are created equal

are very afraid their decisions may be wrong and are killing people.

[SunDrop23]

110. They are people in my extended family.

Who think the Democrats want to "give this county to the Mexicans and faggots."

And "want to open the borders so terrorists can come in and set up shop."

And "suck up to them Muslim people."

And say shit like "Could you imagine what it would be like if President Kerry were in office?" (actually I do on a daily basis) but then offer nothing to back the statement up.

etc.

I'm talking second and third cousins I only see once a year.

[kineneb]

112. add Hummer drivers to list. n/t