People here just keep talking about "2006" and "2008"...

[linazelle]

"Hillary" this, "Kerry" that. You anticipate that the voters will turn everything around at the polls as a way to vent their anger at the Regressives. You act like there are going to be real elections some time in the near future--where all votes are counted in every state.

I think all this talk is a bit premature. We have a nasty little problem that has to be fixed first. It's called eVoting.

Until that happens all arguments are moot. The Regressives win.

[kster]

1. Agreed, Kick and Recommended..nt

[linazelle]

3. Thanks. It's the most important issue we face. nt

[KRose]

2. Evoting has got to go!

Unless we can prove our votes are counted and accurate we can accept more of the same. The DNC should be all over this issue!

[darkmaestro019]

4. Exactly. As long as they stay in power, voting stays

corrupt by fiat--a la Ohio--and as long as the voting system is corrupt, they stay in power.

We need something or someone outside of this loop to force a change in the election system--like the media (oops, owned by corporations in favor of the Repugs) or the UN (oops, we told them to go fuck themselves) or...what?

I'm as out of ideas as everyone else, as far as this goes. I'd love to hear any options I'm not seeing.

[linazelle]

5. There's a poll on this page right now questioning who should run

for president in '08.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5426517

I think it's sad that we forget so quickly how we all felt a year ago when the election was stolen. It took months for DU to revive itself after that devastating blow. And now, like it never happened, we look hopefully to the next elections. I have no trust that they will turn out any differently.

Here's what I expect. We will gain some ground--enough to remove suspicion that elections are totally rigged. The congress and senate will remain in the hands of the Regressives. The presidency will be given to a democrat with little power to make real changes. People here and elsewhere will turn on him or her instead of focusing on eVoting problems.

It's a vicious cycle that has to be broken.

[kster]

6. We have to do what they did

in th UK. There is no other options.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/06/govt_voting/

[Sapphire Blue]

8. I posted that as an antidote to the usual Hillary/Biden/Kerry etc. polls

Really tired of the media rigging polls for Hillary... though I will vote for her if she's the nominee.

[Ladyhawk]

7. What happened in California today really brought that home to me.

And the thing of it is, even my very right-wing, very fundy, very Republican mother thinks that computer voting is a bad idea, probably because she's been influenced by me and hasn't heard Rush's talking points yet.

As I filled out web forms today, I was struck by the fact that there was no "electronic voting machines" category. It is such a huge issue, but none of our representatives are addressing it.

I finally realized that even if there's never been any fraud, the potential is definitely there. It's too easy to change an entire election when the votes are counted with software.

If I, as a conscientious voter, can't trust the system, elections are already compromised.

[FlemingsGhost]

9. Sad, isn't it? Many still cling to the myth of "American Democracy."

The "True Believers," as I like to call them, apparently need another lesson in two-party fascism to shake them out of denial. (Or maybe another, after that. Who knows?)

Alas, when they stop believing ... revolution.

[JCMach1]

10. There is no 'White Knight' or African American individual either

who going to save our party/country...

It's time to crack heads and take names and CHANGE from within.

Then we can tell our leaders to tow the line, or cut them loose.

Elections are just a fantasy at this point. The revolution starts now.

[druidity33]

17. individual...

Why aren't Jesse Jackson and Sharpton talking about this? Maybe we could get Nelson Mandela to speak here about the importance of vote security... or Aristide...

[Wilms]

11. True. n/t

[donheld]

12. Unless we stop this eVoting and other voting problems

We will see who they want elected not who WE want elected.

[OneBlueSky]

13. have you noticed that, despite all the uproar and controversy, . . .

states just keep adopting Diebold and other e-voting systems? . . . controlled as they are by Republicans, it's certainly not in their interest (or Congress') to do anything to correct the problem . . . because not correcting it is the only way to ensure that they will remain in power in 2006, 2008, and beyond . . .

[ngGale]

14. Exactly...

he who counts the votes...we must remember this.:think:

[EFerrari]

15. Thank you.

I love the optimism that drives those threads -- we have a LOT it.

The machines have to go or all that optimism will be thoroughly betrayed.

[LittleClarkie]

16. Amazing how when we do win, the talk of cheating sorta dies down

like in Virginia, for example.

Kinda defeatist innit? What should we do til we fix this little problem, which will be mended mind you in no small part by removing these self-same Republican partisans from office?

Shall we not bother to vote?

What else do we have besides fighting for honest elections than to try and make the Repubs overreach and go for one too many "upsets"? A bridge too far, if you will If the polls going in show the race one way, and the vote comes out the other way, well, how many upsets do you think the peoples will put up with, esp. if DimSon's numbers continue to fall?

Making the fraud more obvious is another way to fight it. And until we can fix the problem we can't just do nothing. They'd like us to be demoralized and not vote. It would make their jobs easier.

[LoZoccolo]

18. Why do you bring this up without suggesting something to do?

Someone posted on here about how they got to the polling place and didn't even vote because of lack of confidence in the voting system, and I blame that on the "discouragement" tactic often employed by electronic voting activists. So if you're going to use that tactic without telling people what to do about it, you could have a net negative effect.

[Deja Q]

19. There's more to it than eVoting, which in of itself is an overstatement:

The rethugs still swallow the radio propaganda that we only "feel", not "think". (which is ironic, for they are feeling what their lackey is saying and not thinking about it either!!)

I know too many people that hate * but will still vote rethug. Or, best case scenario, libertarian.

eVoting has a problem as well, but while people hate the surrent crop of politicians, it won't stop them from fertilizing the field in 2006 and 2008 to grow more of the same.


Like they say: An enemy of an enemy does not make them our automatic friend. Yet we all hope they will become our friends. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. I hope I am wrong, but if they're so brainless they automatically swallow the radiowaves and agree - then they're not worth the trouble. They'll use the spin to apply anything we say against us, yet expect us to listen and conform 100% or more to them.

[FlemingsGhost]

20. Kick

Flem.