I got scammed, but I learned something important.

[Touchdown]

I'm reposting this from the lounge. I thought people should know.

Last night, two talkative teenage boys knocked on my door, selling magazine subscriptions. They said they were home schooled, as one had a broken arm, proceeded to show me his sling, which he wasn't wearing, and said he couldn't go to public school since he was on Vicadin (I thought that kind of strange). They said they were doing this as part of a public speaking class, and that the ones who sell the most will win a trip to London... and the sob story goes on.

I didn't want any magazines, so he said I could donate a subscription to the local Children's hospital (Does my face just scream liberal at these people? Why can't I be a heartless bastard?), so I said yes to Disney Adventure or something like that for the local Children's Hospital. He said it was $48!!!! :wtf:
He then explains that it's for 3 years. I was like whatever, I need to get back to my Randi Podcast. They had official looking reciepts, and a laminated, pro made menu of mags. They looked legit.

So yesterday, I was telling a co-worker about it, and he said "That's a scam. I saw something on TV about that last year." So I did a little surfing, and was shocked at what I found. I stopped payment on my check, and went to ACI's website to cancel my order. Lo and behold, you can't cancel online. I have 3 days, not 30 days, but 1,2,3 days (including saturday) to cancel your order, by mail or fax, with no address or fax number listed on the site. Luckily, there's the address in Cambridge MD (yeah! 2 days to get from Colorado to Maryland :eyes: ) on the reciept. My bank advised me to stop payment on the check, as some victims have been known to have $348 or $748 withdrawn from their checks. You know the old -add in a one or five to the left of the amount memo. That's ATLANTIC CIRCULATION INC. Rememeber them! There are complaints of not receiving magazines, not receiving refunds, or getting refund checks that bounced. But That's not the bad part!

This is an industry that preys, abuses, intimidates, and has a history of neglect on the teens who are employed by them. They travel in packs across state lines, some under the age of 18, sleep 15 to a motel room (the two boys who came to my door were pretty ripe, like a 3 day no bath funk) Some deaths occur, and Atlantic takes no responsibility for the incidents, using the excuse that they were employed by "independant contractors".

Here's an old article on this. read it since it talks about a car rollover carrying 15 kids in a Suburban, made for 8 people, with bald tires, registered to Atlantic and no insurance...
http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation...

In addition, the father, Phil Ellenbecker, said there have been numerous rapes, beatings and abandonments of workers. Reports of abominable living conditions abound, he said, including crowded motel rooms with no privacy, food being withheld for poor sales performance and intimidation.

"Traveling youth crews" is ranked among the worst five jobs for teens, based on injuries and deaths, by the National Consumers League, a 104-year-old organization that represents interests of consumers and workers.

A New York-based watchdog group – Parent Watch – is mounting a nationwide campaign to call attention to what it alleges are deceptive campaigns to recruit young people to work in an unregulated and dangerous industry.

"The crime rate inside crews has skyrocketed," said Earlene Williams, the director of Parent Watch. Williams tracks the operation of the door-to-door industry and documents its labor abuses. "There are many innocent kids caught up in this."

Here's some info on the magazine sales scams from the FTC...

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/tmarkg/magzn.htm

[stop the bleeding]

1. that's crazy. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Thanks for the heads up

Knowing where I live, I doubt if anyone could even find my house. But I'll pass the word along. Wouldn't it be nice if an informed person confronted these salespeople and told them they were being exploited and convinced them to go to the cops?

[Loonman]

3. Watch out for groups of 4-5 guys in track suits

Supposedly raising money for their school's track team. Outright scam. Common thing, you see it in most American cities. They only accept cash because the cash goes right into their pockets.

[triguy46]

4. Same old scam. I got bit in 1970, some things never change. n/t

[Lannes]

5. Happened to me a few years ago

I told him I didnt want a subscription,figured it was a scam but gave the kid a few bucks cause he said he wanted to go to college.If it was a scam it didnt cost me a great deal.If it wasnt I helped a little.

Better them than the kids that show up on my doorstep almost every week trying to convert me to Mormonism.Its their right to do it but after telling them a dozen times no you would think they would get the message.

Now I dont even answer the door when I see them outside.They seem to have taken the hint.

[meganmonkey]

36. My method with the Mormons:

I thank them for their community service work first, to warm them up. I work for a volunteer-driven nonprofit and we have 2 groups of 'elders' come in every week and they do work their asses off.

Ask them one 'difficult' spiritual question, and then when they start going um...er...um... tell them that I prefer to learn spiritual wisdom from people who are old enough to HAVE wisdom. Granted, I am only 31, so what the hell do I know? :)
But I say it politely and they seem to get confused enough that they don't come back...

[Enraged_Ape]

37. Come to the door naked

You will never see them again.

[RebelOne]

6. I have had kids like that trying to sell me magazines.

One girl even tried that "donate it to a children's hospital" line. When I said no, she walked away cursing at me.

[leveymg]

7. Contact the Attorney Generals offices in MD and your state.

Here's contact info for MD:

http://www.oag.state.md.us/victim.htm

[Touchdown]

20. My next door neighbor works for the Denver DA.

...and since I campaigned and helped get him elected...well, that is if he remembers me.;)

[MissB]

8. They showed up here two years ago.

I actually had to call 911 on the guy. He wouldn't leave and started screaming at me. It was really, really weird. I wasn't home alone either - he started screaming at the other person that was here and wouldn't leave the property.

I knew he was going around the neighborhood and I didn't want him to go postal on the next neighbor's house.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. That's horrible

I remember about two years ago or so I was home by myself and someone rang the door bell and it was some teenager (I imagine) who was selling magazine's and it sounded like what you had. The whole thing was really weird, but luckily nobody was home and I didn't have any money. They said they would come back in an hour or so but never did. :shrug: I can't remember if I filled anything out or not. I do remember writing down the name's of the magazine's I was interested in. Now days I don't answer the door for anyone if I'm home a lone and I know it's not my dad coming home (he rides his bike to work a lot).

[Blue_Roses]

10. you can check out fraudulent companies here:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=ATLANTIC+CIRCULATION+INC.&submit=Search

this company is on there.

[terip64]

11. Hate to say it but "Get Off My Porch" works best for me!

I don't trust anyone, isn't that awful. A few years ago a guy came to my porch to sell those green number signs for your house or mailbox. I live in a rural area but had lived in CT right outside of New Haven for most of my life, and I am Italian so I have that whole forget about it attitude. This guy said I could only get this sign on this day so I told him to take a hike , get off my porch, the whole deal. I am sorry for it now, but haven't changed my stragedy any. Still works for the most part.

[mduffy31]

38. I don't yell at them

I find waving my gun around gets across the same message.

:crazy:

[donco6]

12. We get them ALL THE TIME.

Anymore, I have a standard line, "I'm sorry, but I have my own list of charities I donate to, thanks."

But those kids come by regularly. They drop them off from a van with this plastic tub of stuff they haul up and down the street.

[MsUnderstood]

15. I think the plastic tub scam is different

Taht is where they head to pic n save, buy a bunch of old candy and trinkets then mark up the price to 10, 15, 20.

The scam this person is talking about is where you get duped to buy a magine for 5 times teh subscription price.

Anyway, my kid has to sell school stuff every year and the school explicitly forbids going door to door. They have you hit up known acquantances (ie co workers and neighbor you know).

Recently in my neighborhood we've had kids come by trying to sell a newspaper subscription--I tell em no just in case.

[donco6]

16. No, inside the tub is like, 20 diff magazine catalogs

As well as different donation programs (Like Make a Wish - but it's not called that in their material). One kid carries this to the corner, and the other kids fan out to the houses. They collect the money and checks and turn it in to this kid, then replenish their supply of fliers. Sometimes the tub kid travels with them - like a trainer - showing them how to close the deal. It's so obviously a scam.

I haven't had the Pic n Sav kids come by - yet. Industrious lads! :sarcasm:

[meganmonkey]

35. I got the plastic tub folks once and I FREAKED OUT on the kid

I have NO idea what the kid was trying to sell me. He came to the door and started his script, blah blah blah, and I let him hand me a business card and a 'free' bottle of spray cleaner. I looked at the ingredients and said I wouldn't use it anyway and meanwhile, the van he came in drove out of my driveway and the guy started to come in my house!!! I freaked. I was HOME ALONE in a rural area - my DOG wasn't even home. I said "Get out of my house. NOW." I physically took him out by his arm while he was asking to use my phone to call his boss so he wouldn't be stuck. I said 'Sorry, that's your problem'.

The kid was PISSED. BUt he was at least 18, he was big, and I was alone. The van pulled up within a minute, literally.

My biggest fear was that it was like a stakeout, so I was paranoid for like a week until mistermonkey came home.

Fuck that. :grr:

[ohio_liberal]

13. We have those kids that travel here every summer

The ones who come here are mostly all foreign students going to US colleges. They either sell magazine subscriptions or books. I don't know how they get sucked into it. I feel sorry for them and tell them so but I still ain't buying.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Their story didn't hang together at all

When approached by people like that, I pick up on the inconsistencies (there are always inconsistencies) and start questioning them about them. They eventually get frustrated and leave.

[Lex]

17. I just say, "No thank you" and close the door. n/t

[Touchdown]

18. Anyone here a HS teacher?

Is it true that when a kid is on Vicadin, he get's banned from school? I always thought that the school nurse would take the meds and provide it at the kid's dosage time. It sounded fishy to me, but I went to school without metal detectors too.:shrug:

[ohio_liberal]

19. Well, school policies vary I'm sure

I'm not a nurse but I pay close attention to my school district's policies. There is nothing in those "rules" to prevent a kid on any meds from attending class. They simply have to take a form back to the school, signed by a physician, that says the kid has to take "X" medication at such and such a time. The school nurse administers it.

[DebinTx]

24. You're exactly correct

any prescription is given at school as long as it's all above board and documented. My son broke his ankle last year and was taking Vicodin every 4 hours. Not a problem.

[LifeDuringWartime]

28. well if youre going to be on a strong painkiller like that there's not muc

point in being school.

[Touchdown]

30. ...but even less a point in walking door to door for 12 hours

trying to sell magazines for some elusive trip to London.;)

[Touchdown]

21. I got a question for anybody about stop pay checks.

Another DUer and I have stopped payments on our checks with this kind of scam (She was a victyim of TRINITY PUBLIC RELATIONS. Since this is the first time I ever did this, I don't know what to expect. They have my e-mail addr, but I can't remember is they have my phone number. Will they make harassing phone calls trying to get my money, send it to collections agencies, affect credit ratings, etc? I sent off my cancel form, but I doubt it will be there by the 3 day deadline.

I can't imagine that they would want to pursue this very diligently, since they are commiting a felony by transporting minors across state lines, having unlicensed and uninsured drivers on the orads, tresspassing inside secure condo buildings or not disclosing the "cool off" period. It doesn't seem likely that they'd want to go too deep into litigation in getting my money from us, but I could be wrong.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. Trust me...they won't bother reporting you to a collection agency.

They've got dozens of other people to pull in.

[ohio_liberal]

34. No way, don't worry about it

They aren't going to report you to a collection agency

[Ariana Celeste]

22. Are these the same kids who say

they are selling the subscriptions for something school related to win a trip to <insert country here>?

My apt complex has been getting one or two of them every 3-5 weeks. I told one once that I was a housewife and my husband is in charge of the funds (kind of true, im a housewife, lol. but i can spend money if we can afford it) and he started hitting on me. And after I told him again I can't buy anything, as I closed the door I could hear him saying "Stuck up bitch". My neighbor chased him off. I never got that particular guy at my door again, but I've gotten many many others. Some are polite, but many of them try to COME IN. And either hit on me or act really frustrated.

They never mention a company though- they always claim it is school related. And that they can win a "really cool trip to <insert country here>"

[Touchdown]

26. The very ones.

There's more than a dozen companies doing this and exploiting these kids, but the routine sales pitches are always the same. I was a victim of Atlantic, another DUer was victimized by Trinity (how very Christian of them).:eyes:

[Xithras]

23. I did this as a kid. They may not have known.

I got handed a flier my freshmen year in high school advertising a company looking for teens to do sales. Being a poor 14 year old, I got my parents permission and called the number. I met them with about 10 other kids in a hotel conference room, and they proceeded to pile us all into vans with promises of "big money" for selling the magazines. The subs were expensive, but we were supposed to get 20%.

They drove us 60 miles down the freeway, dumped us in a city we'd never been to before, and told us to meet them at a McDonald's when we'd sold 10 subscriptions each. I was out there with my sales partner for 9 hours (until 10PM) when the guy finally came around with his van and told us that the sales were over for the day. They dropped us back off at the hotel with a promise that our checks would be mailed to us within 3 days, and we were told to call if we hadn't received them in a week. When I called a week later after not getting my check, the number was disconnected. A few of the other kids went to my school, and when I asked them I got the same story.

Quite often, the kids are as victimized by these scammers as the customers are.

[Touchdown]

25. Actually that was the point of my post.

Whatever piddly little $48 I lost is nothing compared to the near slavery, and exploitation that these kids go through. This is like pimping without the sex (and sometimes "independant contractors" will even molest the kids too). These boys a couple of nights ago were skinny, and they had bad BO, which means that they are not being cared for.

If they really are teens, then many of these minors are being taken across state lines, which is a federal offense.

[Cats Against Frist]

41. Right -- I actually always attempt to give them psychological counseling

When I've had cordless phones, I always ask them if they need me to call their parents, or a relative, or something. Often these places get them hooked on alcohol and drugs. When I was working in social services, I would try to refer them somewhere.

Funny thing, though, the kids always SWORE they were being treated well, and were happy and stuff, even though I confronted them with info about their company.

Didn't the moonies used to do the same thing with flowers and granola?

[Cleita]

27. I got caught in this one.

Phony invoices or renewal notices: The notices come in your mail and look like bills. If you already subscribe to the magazine, check the subscription expiration date. Also check the notice carefully to see if it came from your publisher. If you're not a subscriber and you didn't order any magazines, you're not obligated to pay.

It was an invoice for a magazine I do subscribe to. So I paid half of it. Part of a two part billing. Then I went online and found out that the magazine in question didn't know who these people were. It was then that I discovered the subscription was three times what the magazine charged.

To make a long story short I refused to pay the second half and demanded my money back. Well it turns out they do buy a subscription in your name with a big profit for themselves. When I refused to pay the second half, they threatened me by intimating that they would send me up for collection and all kinds of bad things.

I got in contact with the Better Business Bureau of the town on their return envelope. It turns out they had oodles of complaints about these people. The magazine grifter company finally agreed to release me from my "contract". (The only contract was the one implied when I did make the first payment.)

However, since then I keep recieving these invoices for all kinds of magazines that I never even heard of. They also seem to keep moving locations, I guess as the law catches up to them. However, there seems to be very little in the way of laws on the books to permanently shut these thieves down.

[phusion]

29. I got scammed by this too

$35 for a 3-year subscription to popular science...

Tried to cancel too, found the same bullshit. Never saw a single magazine.

[Hyernel]

31. The only door to door sales I permit are Girl Scout Cookies

I just love those coconut caramel things.

Not so big on the thin mints.

[Touchdown]

33. I hate you! Now I want one.

They're called Samoas, and I can never say no. Those girls sit out in front of the Grocery store, and I'm like.. "Oh alright. I'll take one box."

Then she says..."Just one?"

Me..."Ok. Ten!"

[carolinalady]

39. I got bit in 1986 in southern CA n/t

[lies and propaganda]

40. frat boys...

If the details were clearer, its not actually a bad deal if you want the magazine.