My freeper brother....

[Bettie]

I really didn't want to believe that my own brother was a true freeper. I wanted to believe that he was just a guy with a different opinion than mine, that we both wanted our country to be the best it could be but disagreed on the way to get there.

Now, I know the sad truth.

He called me yesterday to talk about some other stuff, but then the discussion turned to politics when he asked me if I'm still a "Radical Feminist Socialist".

Huh? I replied. He repeated his question, as if I hadn't heard it.

I replied again, asking what he meant by that. He informed me that he is going to have to stop communicating with me because "your party" (the Dems) are so very corrupt and have blocked all the "good" that Mr. Bush wanted to do for our country.

I asked him what about the corruption within the Repub party. He said that there isn't any, its all Dems, making the right look bad because of all the power they wield in Washington!!!!

So, sadly, I have determined that my own brother has completely separated from reality and may need to be institutionalized for his own protection.

What is wrong with these people??????? HOW can they still believe in this guy (and his many cohorts) after all that has happened? Are they blind and deaf?

I've lost both of my brothers to RW hate now. Neither of them will speak to me because I don't believe in St. George.

Bettie

[Tace]

1. A Man Sees What He Wants To See, And Disregards The Rest

That's a lyric from a Simon and Garfunkle song.

[ET Awful]

Actually the lyric is "a man hears what he wants to hear"

:)

All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

[babylonsister]

2. Bettie, if it makes you feel better, you are not alone.

I too have 2 brothers that I no longer communicate with much as a result of our differing political views, as well as a few friends.
It's hard to accept that we are on such different planes of the spectrum, but I know I'm right :) so have no choice but to accept the reality and move on. Before I did that, I blasted the one w/a computer with info to try to change his mind, but that didn't work. I think his church is feeding him his views, and 'God' prevails over common sense.

[bigscott]

5. Bettie - I can top that

Try being gay at the same time - you might be a radical feminist but I am a homo with an agenda - the worst kind!!:woohoo:
my brother and i no longer talk politics - he is not as bad as YOUR brothers but....he lives in Tom Delays district!!:puke:

[Bettie]

8. My heart goes out to you!

I can't imagine how hard it must be to be gay in our society...and then to have an un-supportive family on top of it!

I just don't understand these people.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Me either

:( Just know that you aren't a lone. :hug: Luckily I don't have any freepers in my family (immediate and that I see all the time). If they are freepers they certainly don't make it known to me and haven't. :shrug:

[babylonsister]

34. bigscott, I resemble that remark!

I also live in DeLay's district, but am far removed from your brother's views. I do sympathize. And welcome to DU! :hi:

[Ladyhawk]

46. Being an atheist doesn't help, either.

My whole family are freepers. It sucks. It hurts and damned if I know what to do about it.

My brother is someone I do not respect. I could go into the reasons why, but I'd rather not. I stay away from him as much as possible for my own peace of mind. What else can one do?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

48. Oh my gosh . . .

you DO exist! So you're the one to blame for this whole "homosexual agenda" scare. And I thought it was only a right-wing scare tactic.

Can you give me any inside information, like when are you going to take over the schools and convert all the children; and when are you going to enshrine all of those "special" rights for yourselves? And is it true that you attract hurricanes?

I'll have to alert Pat Robertson. He'll need to send out a horse rider with a lamp (probably with scented candles), yelling "the homos are coming, the homos are coming."

On a more serious note, I hope your brother comes around. I was at lunch with a cousin of mine a few weeks back--also a freeper--and he confessed that he had come to despise Bush. So there's always hope

[electropop]

31. I have 2 RW brothers also.

Neither is so hostile and scary-crazy, but we avoid politics in our discussions (usually). I am hoping the scales will fall from their eyes after the impeachments.

[babylonsister]

35. Ah, I love how you made that word plural-impeachmentS!

That does have a nice ring to it, electropop! Maybe I will chat w/the bro's after that happens and they see how misguided they've been!

[electropop]

50. But of course!

Cheney may go first, but at a minimum he and Bush will be forced out. Both appear to be pathologically incapable of admitting wrongdoing, so I expect it will be impeachments as opposed to resignations. Currently my prediction is that they'll be gone by August 2006. The Repigs will lead the impeachments in a last ditch effort to salvage the 2006 elections. Sadly, (for them) they will be too late.

[stanwyck]

55. We need a support group

for those of us with freeper family.
My former liberal brother and sister are now pod people. And they're having a disastrous effect on my always liberal/progressive father. My brother keeps urging my Dad to watch Fox News.
I can't understand it.
It's definitely hurting our family. Reunions are strained. I try to be low-key and gracious, in honor of my late mother. But it's so difficult for my husband, myself, and our two children.
Thank you, George W. Bush
You've divided families with your disastrous administration and your politics of divisiveness and hate.

[electropop]

59. It is a national tragedy what Bush has done to our families.

It truly is "brother against brother." This is what they mean by "pro-family?"

[Pool Hall Ace]

3. I have a freepish brother myself, so I understand your pain.

I would like to know exactly what kind of power your brother believes Democrats wield in Washington.

[Bettie]

6. Oh, didn't you know, Dems are in charge!

He told me that they stopped ALL of W's "good" legislation and have run up the deficit!

I reminded him that they don't have a majority anywhere, but he still believes that through magic or something, they have done it all!

I'm starting to think he might be crazy....hearing voices. Oh wait, that's the RW talk radio he listens to all day at work! (He drives a truck)

[ugarte]

22. I think you put your finger on it: hate radio

Hate radio has torn this country, and millions of families, apart.

[bonzotex]

4. sorry to hear that Bettie...

They will eventually lose some of their delusions. Some people have to really hit bottom before they will change. In this case it's an intellectual bottom where the cognitive dissonance becomes too great.

You can't do anything about it except try to be a good example of a thinking person.

[MsAnthropy]

7. They have created the second Civil War

There have been stories that have stuck with me about brothers fighting on different sides of the Civil War. The * Administration has created this country's second civil war and divided this country like nothing since then. My family is the same way. It's an epidemic that needs to be stopped.

[DebJ]

11. but but buy * is a Unitah, not a Dividah

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Chaos is their best friend

As long as families are fighting a lot of people won't learn the truth and will keep voting for republicans.

[Ladyhawk]

47. I wish I knew what to do, but everything I've tried has failed

and left me feeling hollow.

My family and I have almost nothing in common. Spending time with them is like walking on eggs.

[MsAnthropy]

51. I'm just going to wait it out

my new favorite motto is "This too shall pass". Hopefully, the family will be there when this is over so the key is to not do too much damage now. They are as passionate about their opinions as I am about mine. There were times in the 60s when I thought the country was completely insane. This will all pass like some mass insanity.

[ENomine]

57. EEK.

Hmmm... should this ever come to blows, we're gonna need a LOT more gun nuts. Heh, well at least we have the mafia on our side! j/k

[converted_democrat]

9. How old is your brother? Have you given his name to a recruiter?

I come from a family of freeps, and that always shuts them up quicker than anything else I've found.

[Bettie]

17. He's 37 and has done military service

He was in the army for fifteen years, starting at age 18.

Of course, he believes that he can't be activated again.

He also has an 18 year old stepson and a 16 year old bio son. I asked him how he would feel if either of them got sent to Iraq and he said he'd be proud and if they died it would be in service of "god".

[bigscott]

18. holy crap

there is nothing you can say to this - it boggles the mind. I guess i am just selfish - my son can better serve his country and God by living a full compassionate life

[converted_democrat]

23. I'm sorry to hear that your brother is fucking crazy.

He's ready to sacrifice his kids for lies???? I don't think you were far off when you mentioned institutionalizing him. He's probably beyond help, but his kids don't need to die for lies. No one deserves to die because of lies, no matter how misguided they, or their family is.

[MountainLaurel]

28. You'd be surprised

At how many parents would be proud to have their child die on foreign soil for some oil baron or banana company. It's always been the theory of my mother and I that one of the reasons my father hates my brother so much is that he could never join the military because he's deaf, and thus was a disappointment from the get-go.

[Javaman]

61. All freeps say that until their kids actually die, then suddenly they are

democrats. Funny how that works.

[im10ashus]

10. Honey, I have a WHOLE family that has separated from reality.

I feel your pain. There's an old saying. You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make them think. :hug:

[leftchick]

12. Cognitive dissonance

my mother and sisters suffer from it as well....


According to cognitive dissonance theory, there is a tendency for individuals to seek consistency among their cognitions (i.e., beliefs, opinions). When there is an inconsistency between attitudes or behaviors (dissonance), something must change to eliminate the dissonance. In the case of a discrepancy between attitudes and behavior, it is most likely that the attitude will change to accommodate the behavior.

Two factors affect the strength of the dissonance: the number of dissonant beliefs, and the importance attached to each belief. There are three ways to eliminate dissonance: (1) reduce the importance of the dissonant beliefs, (2) add more consonant beliefs that outweigh the dissonant beliefs, or (3) change the dissonant beliefs so that they are no longer inconsistent.

http://tip.psychology.org/festinge.html

[Arkana]

13. The Clenis and Ted Kennedy seem to have Warner Bros. cartoon

superpowers. It's like Kennedy is Marvin The Martian and the Clenis is Wile E. Coyote.

[Bouncy Ball]

14. If they are that out of touch with reality, it'll probably save you a

lot of headaches and grief if they aren't talking to you.

Plus they get to be the bad guys here.

Sorry.

[Ganja Ninja]

15. the Dems 'have blocked all the good Bush is trying to accomplish"

You should have asked him for a few examples. Bet he could'n come up with any.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. I can't stand it either

The ignorance. And democrats have all the power? *snort* Oh brother! Does he not know the meaning of "minority"?

[DinahMoeHum]

19. Bettie, you're not the only one. My brother and sister-in-law seem

to have "drunk the Kool-Aid" as well.

:hug:

[asjr]

40. That Kool-Ade must taste great because my

brother-in-law drinks it by the gallon daily. I am glad I live 900 miles away. One thing I have noticed about the R-wingers is they never really have ideas of their own. They listen to O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc. and posit it as their own opinions.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Family members of Jim Jones cult stopped talking to their families too

If your brother has no problem putting Bush above his own family I would be careful around him. Sounds like he is wound pretty tight. He could turn violent. I humor the Bush supporters in my family exactly like I would humor an insane person.

Don

[DUgosh]

21. I have two biological sisters I haven't seen in ten years.

Apparently they were swallowed whole by John Hagee. My husband has a formerly close huge family and there is so much political tension now, but it hasn't divided them yet.

[Talismom]

24. Dealing with something pretty comparable Bettie...

I'm a secular, progressive Jew with a born-again freeper sister. She's horrified that I've read Harry Potter to my 71/2 year old twins and tells me about how her 16 year old daughter has just gotten her ring for taking the pledge to remain a virgin til marriage. Oh man, what a crazy world this has become!

[bloom]

25. sounds like my brother

he is so convinced that Republicans are so much more "moral" than the Democrats - and that the torture is for a good cause, blah, blah, blah.

He hasn't said he won't talk to me yet. But I'm not looking forward to talking to him over the holidays.

And there's nothing wrong with being a "Radical Feminist Socialist". I should design a t-shirt.

[Bettie]

30. Radical Feminist Socialists

He still thinks this even though I'm a stay at home mom, which, according to his own prattle, is a good thing!

Actually, I stay home because my husband's job requires a lot of travel and it just wouldn't be practical for me to work outside the home right now, but still.

Oh, and I'm a radical feminist....because I believe that women should have rights and be able to make their own choices about their lives and their bodies.

That has never seemed like a radical thing to me.

You're right...got to get t-shirts!

[cappy]

27. I hear you...

My entire family belongs to the freeper tribe. We no longer discuss anything political. I actually had to change the guardians I appointed for my son because I wouldn't want him growing up with their narrow minded beliefs. Very sad what is happening in politics and families today.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

29. GOP Family values!!!!

Think like me and the Chimp-boy, or you are disowned!

What a wonderful group of wackos.

[Bettie]

33. I'm kind of looking forward to his head exploding

When the republicans lose their majority in the next election cycle.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. I think he's sensing it already

He's probably pissed that most of America has had enough of the bullshit that's going on, and he "blames" people like you for causing it.

[MadHound]

32. Wow, that is so sad, I'm so sorry for your loss

I've got some very RW family members, both secular RWers and fundy RWers. But we manage to get along pretty well most of the time for we really don't talk politics that much. People on all sides of our family decided long ago that family is put above politics, and I think that is true with most families, it is a good rule to live by.

But for your brother to be that out of touch with reality, and to have that much hate in his heart, that's just flat out crazy. I truly agree with the points made above concerning hate radio, that shit is just junk food for the soul, and it is leading to an ever increasing divide in this country. Sadly, I think if it continues this cold cutural war that we're engaged in currently will turn into a hot civil war, as hate radio listeners become ever more disconnected with reality, and take their artificially pumped up anger and frustration out on the rest of us in the reality based world.

I think that at this point it might be best to stay away from your brother. I don't know if his mind can be reached at this point, much less changed. Sadly, I think that he is one of those cases that is going to have to have reality smack him in the face, hard, before he wakes up and realizes how badly he has been had. Then you might be able to reach him with reality and logic in order to reconcile with him.

[Greylyn58]

36. I feel your pain too!

My youngest brother has gone over to the dark side and it isn't pretty. I've tried talking to him, but he is a lost cause.

He has always been rather strange, but now he thinks Bush is God Almighty and can do nothing wrong. The church he belongs to is a real "Freepers Delight" and a "Fundie Paradise". Some of the garbage he spouts just boggles my mind.

What is really funny about about this is that he doesn't work and hasn't held a job for longer than 2 years, yet he thinks the Shrub and his crowd are going to save his butt. It is just pitiful.

[Wabbajack]

37. That's fucked up

I have rightwingers in my family and none of them would EVER cut me off because of my political views. Something is wrong with your brothers. :(

[readmylips]

38. I'm the only person in my family who speaks the truth....

We can't watch TV together because they yell back at the TV at anyone who speaks against bush and his crimes. May I say, my family includes, my hubby, two sons, in-laws, etc. To add, my family members are doctors, lawyers, executives, and nuts.

[stevedeshazer]

41. Sounds just like my brother

Drives around in a service van all day listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.

We aren't even on speaking terms anymore. He's completely swallowed the RW line of BS hook line and sinker. Emphasis on sinker.

You have my sympathy, I know exactly how you feel.

[dkofos]

42. Try multiple daily E-mails of stories you read to support your views

[ComerPerro]

44. That is absolutely insane

[Lexingtonian]

45. It's a circling of the wagons, resentments, and grief

It's sad that they've taken brother-sister tensions and made them political. But that's what feminism always said paternalism/patriarchy was, didn't it- the seemingly personal turns out to be merely and sadly impersonal to a painful degree, and political.

It's the grieving process for their loss of what they considered their power in some part. The fullblown denial and bargaining stages seem to have passed, you're getting the bitterness/anger part. To be followed by depression, and somewhere down the line the attitude will change as acceptance is reached that the world isn't what/how they imagined it to be.

There's very little or nothing you can say or do, it's all crap in their heads that only they can shake loose fully, break down into manageable chunks, and flush out.

I'd treat it as temporary insanity (but don't let them know that that's what you think) and assume I have no negotiation power, even when they pretend to be interested and reasonable- they'll snap back into a defensive shell and denial a lot if you argue. I'd ignore it to the extent possible, keep expections very low, and stick with information and firmness in your self and what you've learned. I think until their team is fully defeated and selfdestructs they're going to hold out. You may be waiting a year or year and a half.

[Ladyhawk]

49. I wish I knew how to deal with this phenomenon.

I've tried everything I can think of including trying to mend rifts and staying completely apart. Nothing seems to work and it all leaves me feeling hollow.

[Ilsa]

52. Sorry for your loss, Bettie.

How sad that he'd let this RW drivel drive a wedge between you. I don't talk to my siblings that much because we're too busy. I can't imagine letting politics drive it.

Remind him that the Dems haven't prevented Bush* from doing anything; GOP are the ones controlling Congress.

[MojoXN]

53. Blame the schools...

We've been "teaching to the test" for thirty years, or more. This is what you get; people who can't think critically. America's priorities are a joke. The same assholes who will vote against a school levy that costs them five dollars will GLADLY support any ol' thing that Der Fuhrer wants, including an illegal, immoral war that has cost $200 BILLION. These same war-mongering fucks bitch and moan about the cost of rebuilding the south, coincedentally enough... $200 billion!

What the fuck is going through THOSE heads? (I would say brains, but, you know...)

MojoXN

[DancingBear]

54. Again, Bettie, you are not alone

I no longer speak to a good friend (and woodworking acquaintance) because he views Bush's troubles as "just a bad thing for us", and he is sure that bad things will happen to "my side" as well at some point.

I responded to him thusly:

"Dear xxx,

Losing a Senate Seat is a bad thing.

Sending 2000+ kids to die for a lie is evil. Watching the poor die in New Orleans while eating cake in Arizona is evil. Pretending perjury only counts for interns is evil.

There is, you see, quite the difference."

I am tired of the lies, the stupidity, the hate wrapped up in American flags, and the jingoism.

I've had enough.

[sakabatou]

56. "What is wrong with these people???????"

A lot of things... too many to list.

[GreenPartyVoter]

58. I am so sorry *hugs* I think they must indeed be blind and deaf

[seabeyond]

60. i swear somewhere bush speech activated the button on

on these people. i talked to an employee yesterday saying bush is a good christian. if i said anything about bush her eyes literally changed to fuzzy. she is telling me about revelation and gods, you are with me or agaisnt me no fence sitting

i swear fox reached thru tv this weekend and flipped there switch, let out a spray that drugged em, something

[oregonindy]

62. Have they joined the army yet? if not ask em to join to show loyalty

cant change people but you can help them on their way.

http://www.goarmy.com/ChatIndex.do

[Javaman]

63. My sister and brother are kool-aide drinkers...

Although my sister hits the stuff more than my brother. I haven't spoken to her in 5 years. She is the mouth frothing, talking point, repuke cheerleader, who thinks moron* and his room full of dopes can do no wrong. My brother is more of a center repuke, however, still can't get over Clinton being elected. They both live in a very scary middle of no where upper mobile suburbia. Both drive giant SUV's in a far away overly fossil fuel dependant neighborhoods.
When things turn to shit in a hurry this winter as oil and natural gas prices sky rocket, I'll ring them up and ask them how they like moron* now. I will not be gloating, but waking them up to the facts of reality.

Not so much my brother per say, but my sister, I worry about her most. She will be the one without the tools to understand and survive a 10 - 15 dollar a gallon world.

I look back and I honestly don't know how they got this way. The only thing I can attribute it to is: they aren't artistic. :shrug: My other sister and I are and we are the hard core lefty liberals. go figure?