If you paid Taxes you bought the Thumbscrews.

[Tyler Durden]

Hokay, Kids. Time to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for the country you live in, the system you live under, and the people in charge.

This isn't something you don't cop to; you use the cell phone-you support the Coltan Terrorists. You Drink the coffee-you support the semi-slave run plantations. AND IF YOU PAY ONE CENT IN TAXES, YOU BUY THE THUMBSCREWS, SHACKLES, DIEHARD BATTERIES, AND YOU PAY THE SALARIES OF THE NEW INQUISITORS.

Yes, I believe this. And since I live here (and after my court case with the ex-spouse, I ain't goin' to CANADA anytime soon UNLESS I leave the kids behind), I'm guilty too. And it's getting harder to sleep well.

I don't want to go all Gandhi on this, but Karma is Karma: and to quote a couple of my ancient ancestors: IN FOR A PENNY, IN FOR A POUND.

[MissB]

1. Oh Goody.

Let's stop paying taxes and lose our houses. :applause:

[Tyler Durden]

3. Didn't say I'd done that.

Just said that I'm getting ready to spend the next incarnation as an Untouchable in the slums of Calcutta.

We, as members of the most wasteful, overweight, overpaid and slothful society yet to shame the planet must OWN our faulty Karma and recognize the fault.

THIS is the way to move everyone to action, through the most PAINFUL of all emotions to bear: SHAME.

When we ALL feel the shame, honestly and fully as we all deserve, THEN we will ALL be motivated to action that prevents this abomination from ever occurring again, and not before.

[bryant69]

21. I don't agree

I don't think shame necassarily is a good motivator. Shame is essentially pyschic pain, isn't it? I mean you can try to get me to feel like shit all you want; and you might well succeed. But it's just as likely that I (or anybody listening to you) will in fact attack the messanger as a way of alleviating the Shame or Pain.

One method requires tons of work and the probability, given your comments, that we have to resign ourselves to shitty lives forever to pay for our problems. The other way takes a few seconds, and all I have to endure is a few holier than thou pronouncements, which I can easily tune out. Which path do you think most people are going to take?

I think it's more effective to build people up. To give them a vision of what America and Americans could be, and to show them how they could move towards that vision.

Bryatn
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[The Doctor.]

5. He does have something of a point....

Seriously... if 1% of all the people in America who do not support torture were to withhold income tax, The IRS would have a great deal of difficulty enforcing the tax code.

The way I look at it; If, according to the ruling of the SCOTUS, 'Money is the equivalent of Free Speech', then I cannot be forced to 'voice' my support for illegal policies come tax day. According to the SCOTUS' own ruling, we should be able to take the 5th so as not to be complicit in the crimes of our country.

[Tyler Durden]

9. Exactly the point.

But, as most people WILL cop to, I'm a coward. I can't make myself risk my toys, lifestyle, and other goodies to make the difference.

SHAME on me, and SHAME on everyone else, too.

Wierd that I would get into a "Huey" and do medivac, but I can't get next to holding out on tax because "THEY" might spank me.

[Child_Of_Isis]

22. I can't make myself risk my toys, lifestyle, and other goodies

I can do this. Except the computer. I am pretty much of a minimalist anyway, by nature. The house is paid for. But my daughter is in college. :cry:

[triguy46]

25. This is an old horse, unfortunately...

its been ridden most recently by the timothy mcveigh/militia/christian identity/posse comitatus type groups.

Tell you what, you withold yours to make a "statement", and once you've driven the IRS to their knees, we can follow along. Look, paying taxes is not a cafeteria plan. We don't get to choose where our money goes, never have never will under our current system.

[Tyler Durden]

28. So that excuses you, right?

NOPE. Using your logic, contributin toys to the KKK toys drive is ok because I didn't choose the few bucks they used to buy rope.

Hard to get throught the day without at least ONE juicy rationalization, isn't it? I have the same problem.

[The Doctor.]

31. Lol...

I believe what our friend is railing about has as much to do with with an isolation attitde induced mass-timidity as it does the monsterous crimes he suggests.

The one attitude which is the bane of any mass movement is represented perfectly by your post...

I would say the "Bum Rush" was one of the greatest social inventions ever. (note I did not say 'good')

The only problem is that it seems to work more easily when everyone can smell each-other.

Fact of the matter is, if one tenth of the country withheld taxes - it would cripple the nation and nearly everyone in it. Those with political careers and no ingenuity would wind up with neither. We'd have an ugly rebuild in front of us.

But it is entirely possible to leverage a government with a tax strike.

[Tyler Durden]

34. Takes "juevos" though.

Something that we all seem to lack these days, or else Bush would already be out on his ear.

[triguy46]

36. Juevos? eggs?

Or cojones? I'm out of sync here in a big way!

[The Doctor.]

37. I have actually thought seriously about it...

I do believe I could put together a case that would at least make it to the SCOTUS.

They set the precedent that money was equal to free speech. Giving money to a government that tortures can be equated to complicity. Therefore, compulsory taxation becomes criminal extortion.

There really are all kinds of ways to frame the case as well. I'd start with a 'conscientious objector' stance and go from there.

Chances are I'd be shot before it made it to the SCOTUS, but if the case got enough attention, the question of 'Does the US support and condone torture?' would have to be answered before the case could be resolved.

If you play chess, a case like this would be the equivalent to pinning a rook.

[the_spectator]

2. Plus, the government being the way it is,

we probably bought $3,000 thumbscrews from some Bush-connected company, when they could have just walked on over to Target and picked up $29.95 thumbscrews off the shelf!

[The Doctor.]

7. Yeah... but they use the

Self-locking, platinum-plated thumbscrews with the 'Have a nice Day' smiley on the flanges.

And people say we don't treat our detainees to the best...

[callady]

4. "you use the cell phone-you support the Coltan Terrorists."

you got that right. Try to get anyone to give up their toys and accept that responsiblity and you are lambasted, ignored and ostracized. matters not what circle you travel in, NOONE will unhook from the Nokia devil.

Don't CELL your Soul to the corporate devil.

Coltan and the Congo.

[Tyler Durden]

6. I do that rant on a monthly basis. I usually get flamed.

The milder responses are "But-but-but I NEED my picture taking internet capable BLACKBERRY compatible CELL PHONE that I'll likely throw away next year and get a new FREE one from VERIZON!"

SHAME. It's what you need to change your ways.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. so no phones at all?

Because if you have a land line you pay federal taxes. They won't let you not pay them any more. And don't use a car, because you pay gas taxes. Now, I have a neighbor who farms with mules, has a well and uses candles for power and of course has no phone. Of course, he also doesn't have a computer, so I know none of you are him.....

[Tyler Durden]

15. I already said I was headed backwards on the "Wheel of Karma"

I'm just insisting that there isn't a single solitary "Law Abiding" citizen of the country that isn't headed backwards with me...

And if you believe otherwise, then you're kidding yourself.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Ah, now I understand

you are looking at this from a karmic perspective. My philosophy is different from yours, so I respectfully decline from agreeing with your perceptions.

[Tyler Durden]

18. GREAT! Asked for that tax rebate yet?

You paid for it...you're responsible.

There's no way around that, unless you make the sacrifice. I'm not asking you to do that; just to recognize the universal guilt of the nation.

If you can opt out on that one, I'm not certain as to the grounding of your Conscience.

[ArkDem]

8. Perhaps this kind of reasoning is why you are no longer

married...

[Tyler Durden]

11. I'm remarried for 6 years, thank you.

My ex was a bona fide psychotic and remains so to date.

My WIFE is a delightful woman who does as I do, and we both at least maintain our person cell phone boycott.

She's a Buddhist, and she says she's not looking forward to coming back lower on the wheel either: she was hoping to be a dog, a creature we both view as a being of spiritual light.

Fat Chance when doing this round as Fat Cat Amerikkkan.

[Child_Of_Isis]

23. she was hoping to be a dog

What if she ends up tied up in the back yard all the time? :scared:

[ArkDem]

30. That would be better than as a cat which I view as spiritual lite.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. You can buy fair trade coffee

so to say that by drinking coffee is exploiting, etc, is not always true.

[Tyler Durden]

12. Oh I do THAT...but did you recently buy a "cuppa" anywhere?

OOpsy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. No.

I only drink coffee my husband cold brews at home. He doesn't buy coffee outside of the house, either.

[Tyler Durden]

17. VOCIFEROUS APPLAUSE!! Bought any GAS recently?

My point is that there aren't enough of our tears for the rest of the world to balance out our inequality.

AND that a single cent paid to the FED pays for torture. That is not a refutable statement.

I feel my shame acutely; even worse that I do so little about it. Fair Trade Coffee use and cell phone avoidance do not adequate pennance make: I think you'll agree.

[damntexdem]

19. It ain't me, babe -- I've opposed the bastards.

But, all right, we bought the thumbscrews. So let's use them on the Bushistas. ;)

Nah, just joking. We do need to be better than they are. But let's do hope that they're convicted and rot in jail cells for a long time.

[Tyler Durden]

20. I wonder if it's enough.

I don't believe in God, but I sure hope he's more forgiving than I am: I'd roast us ALL on a slow spit in Purgatory for a few million years.

[Child_Of_Isis]

24. I'd roast us ALL on a slow spit in Purgatory for a few million years

:rofl:

[tjwash]

26. Disagree.

You have not addressed the issue of these rich fat cats at companies like Halliburton who through voodoo accounting do not pay any taxes at all, yet are the biggest profiteers in all this mess, as well as pulling the strings of the people who give the orders to do all the dirty work like torture and intimidation.

Your issue is with them, not us.

I, for one, do not consider myself "fat", or "complacent", or "lazy" by the way. However, think of this. We have a government right now that thinks nothing of bombing and torturing people thousands of miles away, and sending others peoples children over to die in an illegal war. Do you think for one second they would hesitate to take everything you own, and throw you in jail on the flimsiest of excuses if they thought it would keep everyone else in your town in line?

Just my two cents...

[Tyler Durden]

27. I repeat: no such thing as being "a little pregnant."

It's "logic" such as yours that perpetuates the evil: WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE. And my cowardice at not refusing to participate does not excuse me. or you either.

[MojoXN]

29. I don't pay taxes...

As I can't find a job. :( So, I guess I'm in the clear!

MojoXN

[The Jacobin]

32. There are a lot of stupid polls around here

But yours asking if I agree with your opinion about not paying taxes takes the cake.

Let's put it this way - if you avoid your taxes, then you take food out of the mouths of children on WIC and free lunch programs. Sleep well, tax-dodger.

[Tyler Durden]

33. As many are, you're missing the point.

I PAY my taxes. The issue here is, does the good done by an ever decreasing amount of tax dollars properly sent to the needy excuse the support of a government through taxes that invades countries, slaughters civilians, and tortures prisoners.

Answer: ONLY if you believe that the end justifies the means. Also if you believe in ad hominem attacks, as it seems you do.

You know, reading your reply makes me stronger in my opinion than ever. Thanks.

[OxQQme]

35. I've got no problems with paying

for education, health care, social security (I'm a recent recipient), infrastructure, services rendered or any other funded social agenda.
I wish to withold the military overspending percentage and have felt this way since I got out of the Marines. Expensive equipment that's used once and put into mothballs made a contractor very fat.

[callady]

38. Good Question n/t