Sam Donaldson just said what no other newsman has dared say.

[alfredo]

He said the Christian right want America to become a Christian Theocracy.

they were talking about the Kansas Intelligent Design decision.

Is he right? Should we run with that?

[Eric J in MN]

1. What show? (nt)

nt

[napi21]

4. This Week with George Stephanopolis. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Question about George

Is he the one in the Clinton campaign documentary called "The War Room" and he worked on the Clinton campaign? Or is that two different people?

[Debau2005]

30. Same one

[napi21]

32. It's the same George.

I think he does a decent job on his Sunday show. Lots of people here on DU don't like him, but to me, most of the time, he seems pretty fair.

[Olney Blue]

53. I agree with you.

This is my favorite Sunday show now because he has fair
representation of opposing viewpoints.

[0007]

33. 'Tis true, I heard Same with me own ears.......fell out of me chair when

my jaw dropped to the floor. :wow:

Yes, I hope MSM runs with it.

[alfredo]

35. It seems that all it takes is one brave soul to stand up. Cindy did and

everything seems to have sprung from that one act to truthtelling.

[HamiltonHabs32]

76. I got a link to the video clip

here...
http://www.throwawayyourtv.com/url.taf?_function=link&url=http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002599.html&postid=523

very good stuff.

via onegoodmove.org

[Mr_Spock]

2. Of course he's right - he's simply stating the obvious...

I call it a RW terrorist attempt to turn the US into a fascist theocracy - a new form of government...

[wtmusic]

8. Stating the obvious is not something we should take for granted

from a central media figure like Donaldson.

[Gildor Inglorion]

9. Not a new form of government at all...

The states of the deep south have basically been fascist theocracies all along, and still are. That's why corruption is so rampant: When everything is illegal, nothing is really enforced.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. Or, even worse, anything can ber selectively enforced.

[mr_hat]

3. MSM newsperson, anyway. Moyers nailed it >

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/8664

[rateyes]

10. And, isn't it interesting that Bill Moyers and Sam Donaldson,

were, at least at one time, Southern Baptists? Tells you that not all of them are wacko...some of them know what's going on and are fighting that bunch of yahoos.

[mr_hat]

22. Yep. Add Jimmy Carter to that list, too.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. I didn't know that

But they know it and not they aren't all whacko. Aren't the Clinton's Baptist and Al Gore?

[area51]

34. Clintons

If I remember correctly, Bill Clinton is S. Baptist & Hillary is Methodist.

[rateyes]

48. Yes, Clinton and Gore...

both Baptist.

[BamaBecky]

40. There are those that lead, and those that follow

There are those that think and those that are bound tightly to what others say and are bound tightly to the Bible as their authority. They don't dare question authority! That would be a sacrelidge.

It's probably the 80/20 rule - 20% think - 80% don't

Bama

[seabeyond]

5. big duh. the christian right say that is what they want

republican representitives are passing law, in churches, that are religious law, not constitutional law.

pretty good one to run with. i have been for a couple years now. there are facts all over the place to prove this point

[dennisnyc]

12. Chris Shays R-CT quote:

"This Republican Party of Lincoln has become a party of theocracy."
U.S. Representative Christopher Shays, R-CT

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

It's no secret what they're doing.

Theocracy Watch is doing great work on this.

[serryjw]

26. WOW! Thanks for the link

that one I missed

[alfredo]

29. If we need to impress on people just how violent theocratic states

are to their people. With God on your side, any crime can be justified.

[calimary]

90. Any crime, up to and including torturing people.

:puke:

[alfredo]

93. Yep. Then lie about it.

[fishwax]

6. he's absolutely right, but you can expect him to be chastised for it

bill o'reilly can advocate the destruction of an american city, and that's okay, but nobody better question the motives of the chri$tian right, i tell you what ...

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Actually, I Think You're Wrong

The radical right christians are in their death throes. They overreached, took too much credit, and are now in the process of being exposed for what they are, on a country-wide basis.

The pendulum has swung as far right as it's going to, and their power is going the way of the dodo. They deserve it, and in their hearts, they know they deserve it. These are not the folks who will be saved, come their precious rapture.
The Professor

[fishwax]

81. Oh, I agree, but I'm not going to hold up my cynicism until the last nail

is in the coffin, so to speak. For the time being, I must maintain my cynicism ;)

I think there is potentially a lot of truth to what you've said, though. They've gone through cycles of mini-withdrawal before, but I don't think they've ever quite over-reached like they have in the year since the last election.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. Well, I Can't Say I Blame You For That

Just showing my natural optimism i guess. But, i've been paying attention for quite a long time now, and i recognize the signs of a sinking ship. Saw it from both sides, now, each more than once.
The Professor

[fishwax]

86. it should make '08 quite interesting

the one solace I took in the days after the election last year was the belief that there was a huge potential for schism within the repub party and that the two wings of the party--the old-line/libertarian types and the reactionary christian wing--couldn't possibly hold together through another cycle. and that definitely is coming to pass, thanks to the arrogance and overreach of the latter. (hooray!)

Saw a poll on another thread that bares this out as well, indicating giuliani, rice, and mccain as roughly tied for the '08 front runner. The gop would have an awfully hard time winning w/o the religious right's mobilization of voters and resources, and none of those candidates would inspire them (rice a possible but imo unlikely exception). http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5356456

[leftofthedial]

7. well . . .

Duh!

[ixion]

11. hell yes, he's right, IMO

Dominionism is an incredible threat to our republic.

[alfredo]

21. Dominionist programmed the voting machines for Diebold and

ES&S; the Urosevich brothers. O'Dell is a Dominionist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The fact that he said it is important

[Beam Me Up]

65. Can you say why you think this is important?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think it has significance as well. But the question is, WHY is this important? In the grand scheme of things, what significance can this have?

Thirty years ago intelligent people foresaw the consequences of building a complex civilization based on nonrenewable energy sources. And now, thirty years later, despite their forewarnings, here we are, confronting a kaleidoscope of problems which could have an enormous impact on all of history.

9/11 was an historic event; the kind of thing myths are made of.

Who does the law serve?

[WiseButAngrySara]

14. Should we run with it? Does a bear poop in the forrest? Are you suggest

-ing that we 'run with lies?' Of course they want a Christian Theocracy. Who else would be willing to die in their immoral illegal wars? (Other than their suiciding enemies)

[alfredo]

39. Most don't see the threat in "America was founded on Christian

principles." That is the Christian rights justification, it is their frame.

From what I have seen from the Theocrats has nothing to do with Christ's teachings.

[WiseButAngrySara]

46. Oh Alfedo, I couldn't agree with you more! Christ's teachings are close

to 180 degrees from the teachings of the Theocrats, and the neocons and PNACers just use them for political leverage. The neocons and PNACers are the antithesis of morality, IMHO.

[alfredo]

47. I have always been wary of Christians who seem to

preach from the Old Testament to the exclusion of the teachings of Christ. They are more interested in power than salvation.

[johnaries]

15. It's called Dominionism or Christian Reconstructionism

and it is real, but most people don't even know it exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism

We need to inform the electorate.

[BrotherBuzz]

43. Katherine Yurica wrote a most excellent essay on Dominionism

You're right, johnaries, most people don't even know it exists...

The Despoiling of America



How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

By Katherine Yurica
February 11, 2004


The First Prince of the Theocratic States of America

It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it.<1> And only Kevin Phillips saw its significance in his new book, American Dynasty.<2> On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition.

Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the United States of America to take his rightful place as the head of the true American Holy Christian Church.

Robertson’s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation.

As Antonin Scalia, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court explained a few months later, the Bible teaches and Christians believe “… that government …derives its moral authority from God. Government is the ‘minister of God’ with powers to ‘revenge,’ to ‘execute wrath,’ including even wrath by the sword…”<3>

George W. Bush began to wield the sword of God’s revenge with relish from the beginning of his administration, but most of us missed the sword play. I have taken the liberty to paraphrase an illustration from Leo Strauss, the father of the neo-conservative movement, which gives us a clue of how the hiding is done:

“One ought not to say to those whom one wants to kill, ‘Give me your votes, because your votes will enable me to kill you and I want to kill you,’ but merely, ‘Give me your votes,’ for once you have the power of the votes in your hand, you can satisfy your desire.”<4>

<lots more>

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

a MUST READ!

[terrya]

16. Damn right he's right.

That's exactly their ultimate aim...a Christian theocracy ala "The Handmaid's Tale" in the United States.

We should be not only running with it, but sounding the alarm.

[ElectroPrincess]

17. Yes, Absolutely! Wash, Rinse, Repeat ... n/t.

[xchrom]

18. of course he's right -- with one big fat obstacle --

their corporate lords and masters will fuck them royally before they allow that to happen -- as strong as the christian right is -- they are -- to be ridiculously poetic about it -- dust in the wind before walmart, ibm, exon, g.e., etc.

the christian right are stooges -- evil and potentially, more violent than they have displayed so far.

[pdxmom]

19. Of course we should. Kansas is the starting point for our

very own Christian madrasahs. Every time they talk about controlling the Congress and Administration and only needing the Supreme Court to make it complete, they are proving that they want this country to be a theocracy.

[alfredo]

50. I remember Ralph Reed laying out their agenda back in the 80's.

They didn't want a place at the table, they wanted to own the table.

[BiggJawn]

20. Of *COURSE* he's right!

What do you think some of us have been WARNING you about, in between the distraction of having to defend ourselves from charges of "Bashing"?

[liberal N proud]

23. How long before he announces his retirement?

We all know he is correct in his editorial of the state of the union.
I am sure the RR fundies are teaming up to slam ABC and call for his head now.
With history being what it is with these bastards, anyone speaking out against them has suffered from their control of the media.

I hope I am wrong this time!

[Hamlette]

24. What is more astonishing is George Will and Cokie Roberts were

more outspoken against the Kansas school board. Will said something like: the biggest story for the downfall of the Republican majority is the Kansas/Dover votes. The Prez must come out and draw the line by saying the vote in Kansas is intolerable. (That's what George Will said, in so many words.) And Cokie went along with both of them. That the Kansas vote is ruining the Republican party.

[pretzel4gore]

37. naked stupidity reflects badly ipon the emperor's 'conga line

of sukkholes' maybe...
while religious fundamentalism that gets away from the generosity of spirit which any described creator must have is notorious for its grotesqueness, STILL! the way the devil hides his evil grasping hatred and viciousness behind the facade of christianity (or islam, or any religious belief) is amazing.....after all one of the main 'commandments' is to 'not take the name of god in vain' or use god's name for personal rewards/satisfaction, which is what the political greedy and religiously presumptuous goofballs like robertson and falwell and all the rest of that herd of swine (which is a biblical reference to them) do daily and relentlessly...it's too easy to forget there is a god, in all probability, and while creation is an esoteric issue best left to geniuses, not killing the neighbor or stealing his stuff or getting drunk all the time or lying as a matter of routine (ESPECIALLY when the sillys believe you!) are wrong..it's simple as that, but ethics, morality and law are not simple things that can be arbitrarily choses: and people do learn from the past, which makes necessary debate about religion and so on....and while there MIGHT NOT be a creator, as we can understand, that just magnifies the mystery, moves it up another notch

[Mme. Defarge]

49. Perhaps this is the answer to my question of the last 5+ years...

How much rope is enough for them to hang themselves?

[me b zola]

51. Yes, ultra-conservative George Will made a great point

Will said that the republican party can no longer sit on the fence with the social conservatives who are pushing religion into the government--he said that the time of reckoning is now and repubs must decide whether they want to support religion in government or not.


THIS IS OUR WEDGE ISSUE!

[Hamlette]

59. agreed....Terry Schiavo should be our poster child.

What with Robertson blowing the cover on "Indelligent Design isn't about a Christian god, or even a god at all." And O'Rielley inviting terrorists to blow up San Francisco.

You are right. We need to appeal to fiscal conservatives (which I am) by telling them the taliban is coming to a town near you if you let the unholy alliance continue.

Divide the base.

[tularetom]

25. Yes he's right and it should be repeated

at every opportunity by everybody who understands what a fucking mess they want make of our democratic republic. Every progressive talk show, every guest on sunday blatherfests, and all of us should be shouting this out! Make 'em deny it! If they won;t ask why not. If the truth comes out the corporate bigwigs may start to distance themselves from these assholes and marginalize them into turd party status.

[electropop]

78. "Turd party status"

:rofl:

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Yes, cause it's true!

They don't care about democracy and freedom's which is what this country is about. They just care about themselves.

[peacetalksforall]

36. Please - can't we split the country - they get 25% - that is the correct

per cent for them - in and aroaund Utah. Those who choose not to move choose to stay in this Democracy which needs a ton of correction.

Let them carry as many guns as they want within their borders and they can design their own laws to keep out libbruls, gays, and furriners. They can make Pat Robertson their president. And they can send their own children to kill Moslems and North Koreans.

[stubtoe]

44. Ah! My very sentiments - although

I'd rather they moved out to some desert island far, far away and started their OWN damned country. I would love to see how they would pay for infrastructure without taxes!

And they could take the clinic bombers with 'em too.

[Jim__]

38. Of course he's right!

A quote from Gary North, a Christian Reconstructionist:

The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion--must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. - Gary North, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1989), p. 87. (see also Source of the quote and Christian Reconstruction website)

[dennisnyc]

52. this reminds me of a man i heard say that women should

trust their husbands to cast one vote per family.
It was a caller on C-Span's Washington Journal.

It seemed an amazingly benign way to proceed with taking away women's voting rights--also a part of the theocratic agenda!

[XemaSab]

57. That's the biggest crock I ever heard!

So unmarried women then have no representation?

I see....

[Digit]

69. They want us taking care of the men out there....

They see this as our (choke) role in life....(choke).

[kestrel91316]

71. Yep. Unmarried women are the property of their father, or brother,

or other male relative. They are essentially unpersons.

[XemaSab]

73. Let's put this in cultural perspective:

In "old" European countries, such as France, women are allowed to run around free and to go wherever they want totally unchecked. This is why France has been our enemy for the last 229 years.

In Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to leave the house without a male relative. This is why the Saudis are our natural allies.

I see how it works...

[Der Blaue Engel]

88. Fundies have been doing that for many years

My father used to have five votes: his, my mother's, and three daughters'. Then mom died, I grew up and saw through it, and one of my sisters went with a different fundie wacko set that was more liberal.

But the women in my church all gave their votes away. Not to do so was a sin.

[alfredo]

55. How influential is Gary North. Does he have anything to do with

Republican policy? Is he as influential as Leo Strauss?

[Withywindle]

70. Scary quote!

Funny, I'm not even a Christian, but I have read the Bible more than once, and I seem to remember something about people having to take a mark before they could be full citizens and do business...hmmm...I think it was in...could it be - Revelations?!

[yurbud]

41. pose it as a question to the right--do you want to make Christianity

pre-eminent politically in the US and make members of other religions second class citizens?

[notadmblnd]

42. and we should go one better

we should decide what denomination this theoracy is going to be. Then we can just sit back with some :popcorn: and watch the crusades begin.

[XemaSab]

58. For sure!

:popcorn:

I think we should be Eastern Orthodox, personally. The pageantry and ornate decorations I think would really add something to American civic life!

[mtnester]

45. Shoot, I thought maybe he used the word LIED

when referring to intel presented to justify invading Iraq.

When someone from the MSM uses the specific word "lie" or a derivative, then I will take notice.

[libodem]

54. we should run with that

because it's true. I'm scared for our constitution and government. The line between the separation of church and state is being erased faster than we know. What really gets me is the IRS is going both guns against some church that asked people to vote with their conscience in a 'what would Jesus do' type of sermon, and referred to, Jesus, as the 'Prince of Peace' being anti-*. Now, they may lose their tax-exempt status. This sermon took place sometime around the elections, from what I understand. Man, this seems so patently unfair, when I imagine there must be thousands of conservative churches preaching pro-*. I'm saddened to believe that any peace-promoting church will have to prove their 'intent' and quantify all their wording. Theocracy here we come.

[Infomaniac]

56. I'd say Christian Fundamentalist Theocracy

There are many Christian sects. It's the fundies who want to cram their narrow religious views down everybody's throats.

[alfredo]

62. Iraq is the first battlefield of their plan for

readying Israel for the return of Christ.

[Beam Me Up]

67. OMFG! I hadn't thought of that, but you could be right. Who needs

DEMOCRACIES when the Son of God is sitting on His 1,000 year throne?

The law shall be every word that issues from His Mouth.

[alfredo]

68. Bingo!

[kestrel91316]

72. Not even that. It's Protestant Fundamentalist theocracy. They REALLY

hate Catholics, though they find them to be useful for the moment.

[alfredo]

79. I think the Israelis should be nervous about the Theocrats.

Don't they know the end game includes having the Jews convert or die?

[kestrel91316]

80. Apparently not.

[alfredo]

83. Well the US Theocrats do serve the short term purposes

of the right wing groups in Israel.

Many say that Sharon's 2000 show of force at the al Aqsa Mosque was to show support of rebuilding the temple on that site. That is one of the goals of the US theocrats. Christ can't return until the temple is rebuilt. Of course Sharon's visit set off a wave of violence known as Al-Aqsa Intifada.

[BrklynLiberal]

60. kick

[YOY]

63. I lost respect for Sam back when he interviewed Geraldine Ferraro

and asked something along the lines of "whether she had mafia connections" based soley on her Italian American heritage.

I guess he just earned a bit back.

[Quixote1818]

64. Sam Donaldson spoke at my Collage Graduation at NMSU in 93'

He gave a great speech and returned a book to the library he forgot to return 30 or so years before. I believe he was born in El Paso and grew up just across the border in New Mexico. He still has a ranch in New Mexico today that he lives at part of the year. Several people were killed on the ranch last year when he was away I believe.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/don0bio-1

[NAO]

66. My Boilerplate Dominionist Statement with Resources, Links

Fundamentalist Radical Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism".

Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy. These Radical Clerics have developed and are executing a detailed plan to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy.

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 Presidential Election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing take place now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The articles below are critical for understanding the Dominionist movement; for realizing how real and how detailed their plans are; and to become aware of how far they have come toward achieving their goals.

The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup: Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

The Yurica Report - News, Intelligence, Analysis
http://www.yuricareport.com

The Religious Right - An Anti-American Terrorist Movement
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8816.htm

[Patiod]

74. Can you post these somewhere where they'll stay put?

I'm not sure how DU works with resources, but this should be available for when we get whacky emails, or when our friends state that we're lying when we tell them that Bush believes in the Rapture, and that he needs things a certain way in the Middle East so he can get raptured up.

[underpants]

75. Bookmarking

thanks

[alfredo]

84. thanks for the great resource.

[triguy46]

85. No question. And when non-fundie conservatives wake up...

and see who they took home to bed, they will be a little puckered up. The beer drinking, pick up driving, gun toting, good old boy has little interest in being born again, and a lot of interest in being able to go to Hooters every night where he can feel his manhood renewed. These are not compatible activities, except in the sense that they are married of convenience. The latter love the idea of 'everyone' being christian, but has no interest in changing the beer drinking, dippin', ogling boobs, shootin guns kinda fun that such a theocracy might take exception to.

[porphyrian]

87. Listen to no newsman who is republican and dyes his eyebrows.

Sam Donaldson is an old tool. However, he's probably one of the oldschool republicans that aren't happy about the religious right taking over their party and making them look stupid. It's good to see them fighting each other for a change.

[alfredo]

92. I've had mixed feelings about him, but that is a good thing. Newsmen

lose credibility if they jump off that fence.

[ENomine]

89. Bravo.

I saw him speaking at some book event on CSPAN. The guy's brilliant, everything that journalism WAS and SHOULD BE again.

[newportdadde]

91. I caught Sam right around when he said that.

He had a lot of interesting comments that morning, at least the part I caught. I was shocked to hear it, that and his comments on Iraq too something like "When we do pull out and it becomes the inevitable Civil War it will be after they vote in a government so we can throw up our hands and say 'hey this is all you'"