Fundamentalists and Religious Right Wingers are not the same thing.

[PurgedVoter]

The 'religious right' are not fundamentalists. Just as the 'radical right' are not, and have no resemblance to true patriots.

Fundamentalists pursue the fundamentals of their faith first and foremost. The flaw in most fundamentalism is the insistence on absolutism and inerrancy. A common result of this dogma is the tendency for fundamentalists to pick and choose. When a verse disagrees with the pattern they have chosen, they either present their countering verse as if this solves it, or pick apart and obscure the meaning of the offending verse. Those that insist on inerrancy ignore the disrespect they show to the texts they follow by ignoring the truth that they, like everyone else, are interpreting the text within the context of their own understanding. The dividing line of fundamentalism, in any faith, is whether it is used as a tool to develop understanding or as a tool to prove you are correct or superior. True fundamentalists of both persuasions can be inspired or horrible, but in either case they only have superficial resemblance to the radical religious right.

The far right first and foremost pursues ways to justify their anger and hatred. They want bad things to happen to those they hate. Personal gain for members of the far right also includes personal loss for their enemies. The far right sees opponents as enemies. Followers in the far right whether political or religious, seek leaders who hate. The far right sees opponents as enemies. They also use words differently. A strong leader is in fact a leader that is not 'weakened' by compassion. A determined leader is a leader who will not listen to reason, persuasion or conscience. A decisive leader is a leader who will ignore inconvenient facts.
The radical right also has a strong desire to be morally superior. This may seem an impossible task to someone rational and compassionate, when the right wings leadership preaches violence, selfishness and hatred. Usually their hatred can be twisted into righteousness. With enough justifications they can feel like they have the moral high ground as they hate a black man, a Moslem, a Frenchman or even a bicycler. Often because of their pursuit of the moral high-ground, they are confused with fundamentalists. The religious right is fond of using inerrant fundamentalism. As they use it, it is a bludgeon and a test for “Right Thinking.” They may insist that they are fundamentalists, but in fact they follow their leaders, not the fundamentals of their doctrine. For example, The Christian Right will often stand behind leaders who have divorced and remarried as they preach family values. A true fundamentalist would drop them as a leader the second that they became aware of the conflict. The Christian Right will link morality to Vengeance, which is clearly and expressly forbidden by Jesus. Vengeance is an important part of the "Right Thinking." philosophy. Getting back at someone is part of being strong in both religious and political radical right wing philosophy. Radical right wingers are all about getting even. Unless the target is a right wing leader. Then they will insist on liberals being forgiving. Right wingers talk about justice but ignore it unless it hits their enemy. What the radical religious right and the radical right hold in common is hatred. They are united in their desire for another faction to suffer.

The distinction between the radical right and the fundamentalists is crisp but there are similarities. The radical religious right has an entire world view that filters all readings of the fundamentals. Like fundamentalists, they are often good, caring and even giving people. Like fundamentalists they are often inflexible and intolerant. Both of them want to lead you. The fundamentalists will lead you back to the basics of their faith. The right wingers want to lead society back to the stone ages.

[DanCa]

1. Good post but we know who the enemy are. Now how do we stop them?

I liked what you said btw. :D

[PurgedVoter]

2. We stop them by turning them on themselves.

Their Pathological narcissism reinforces their paranoia. Show how they have been lied to and manipulated. Right wingers are simply selfish. Radical right wingers are haters. Since selfish people use haters, it is easy to find evidence of the right wing manipulating the radical right wing. The real question is how do we reduce the number of haters in the next generation? People drawn to Fundamentalism used to be quite opposite the far right. The Calvinists had a good measure of haters, but the Anabaptists, Shakers, Mennonites, Quakers and Amish were all lovers. (platonic)

[RC]

3. I see the difference between fundamentalists & right wingers as

a matter of degrees. True, one want to lead us back to the stone age, but the other wants to leads us back to the dark ages.
The difference are not as crisp as they are fuzzy.
Part of the real problem is that both see the world in black & white. Not much gray and most certainly not in color as that clashes with their world view.

[PurgedVoter]

16. I really can't agree with you on this one.

Handel, Tolkien, and C.S. Lewis were are quite strongly members of the "Faith Group" but our world would be missing a bit of color without them. Fundamentalism means examining the basis of your faith. It has been taken over by the Right as a code word for Intolerance, but lets not let the stains of the Right paint thoughtful faith a different color. What separates us liberals is intellectual inquiry melded with compassion. Liberals are branded as soft because the ignorant see choosing to understand as a weakness. It takes strength to choose a dimly lit, unclear passage through rough terrain instead of marching along with the band on a clear path while a chorus sings "We are right!" The band may seem stronger but in the crowd you can't see, or hear or experience anything other than what the band leader chooses for you. As a fundamentalist I feel much closer to the Agnostics, Wiccans, Buddhists and Gays than I do the 'Christian Right' who have never introspected and have no understanding of their own faith.

[LoZoccolo]

4. One's a theological distinction, the other is a political distinction...

...as you point out. People here like to blur the two or come up with their own eccentric distinction or lack of distinction between the two for the purposes of their own agenda or propaganda, but the two categories are along two separate dimensions which may or may not intersect for some people. Distorting these boundraries for the purposes of fighting the religious right can only lead to confusion and ill-concieved strategy.

[leftofthedial]

5. the basics of christ and allah and jehovah fundies' beliefs

would lead us back to the dark ages

the differences you cite are matters of degree and of orthodoxy. They whole batch are insane.

[PurgedVoter]

17. Without understanding them,

there is no way that you can see what they are. Do not confuse the foolish sheep and those who exploit them with the philosophers who search for meaning. If you don't seek to understand, then understanding will not come easily. If you lump all of the people you disagree with, because of their lack of understanding what you feel to be true, together with disdain, then you become identical to them. You begin to play the same game, only the team you side with is different.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

6. I've actually known a left wing fundamentalist.

This woman I knew in college was against abortion and gay marriage but agreed with the Democrats on the environment, health care, unemployment issues, etc., so she decides to pick the lesser of the two "evils" and vote Democrat.

[PurgedVoter]

7. In truth you have met another one.

Although my thought on abortion is that stewardship of this small planet almost requires it at the current juncture. If people in society were absolutely going to take all children born as a group responsibility then I might be able to see eye to eye with the anti-choice crowd. But since for them it is a religious issue, (They believe that God will have the unborn and unbaptized children rot in hell or limbo forever.) I have great issue with giving the federal government oppressive control over female issues. So while I support a womans right to an abortion without the interference of the men folk who have no clue of the cost of childbirth, I feel it is my duty to try and gracefully talk people out of having an abortion. As far Gay rights goes, I am not without sin, so I won't cast any stones. I still eat shrimp and have even made graven images of things that exist on earth, so I figure the last thing I want to do is interfere with other people trying to find some love and mutual support on this lonely world. I am a touch phobic, but that is my problem, and I try to keep it under control and not add stress to the lives of any of the kind, loyal and generous men I know that prefer the same sex.

I don't think we fundamentalist liberals are all that rare. Most of us don't go around bragging about our faith. Most of us realize just how far we are from compliance. I am pretty sure Jimmy Carter is one.

I posted this about myself earlier:

I am a Southern born Conservative Christian,

I was baptized in the First Baptist Church of College Station, Texas. It was my conservative Christian values that led me to liberalism. Anyone who can spot a pearl in the mud can see that the red letters in their bible are a guide to progressive faith. Here it is nearly 2000 years later and the words still ring progressive.
My first involvement in politics was passing out fliers for Mcgovern.
Yet when I dropped out of high school I wondered why poor people wouldn't get jobs and stop hurting the economy. I also knew that unions were all corrupt and we wanted our community to grow.
The propaganda was so thick you couldn't see to the other side. Propaganda has shaped us Southerners, without our knowing it, into people who do and support things counter to all we believe is right. If we saw through the haze of propaganda clearly, we would shed tears at our own betrayal of decency.
The propaganda is subtle and appealing. We Texans are proud, strong and independent. In other words, other people are not that way so we don't ever look and see how anyone else does things. We don't ever see what worked for others. Kind of like the story that the media is liberal. Once you accept that lie, you are ready to filter anything that disagrees with what Rush or Hannity says.
We think a person should stand up for themselves. So we hate those that are sick, lame or damaged. They want what we have to work for just handed to them.
We look down on people who don't provide for their children's future. We call them 'Trash,' 'Poor White Trash,' or 'Trailer Trash.' We see these uneducated people drinking cheap beer living in cheap homes wearing cheap clothing and we feel superior. Even if we are one of them we feel superior. We can always look at the splinter in someone else's eye and decide we are better.
I am victim to the Southern lie as well. I am far from wealthy and have lived in poverty for most of my adult years. But I have worked hard for my children. My first two sons both have math degrees and I work hard for my two adopted children to have even more opportunity than I could provide for my first two. It is real easy to look at others in my same economic niche and judge them. In judging them, I am divided from them. I am turned against myself.
Still it is because of no virtue of mine that I have been strong and healthy, with good eyesight and a reasonably functional brain. Life has been hard enough with these advantages, and for me to cast judgment would be easy, in the cloud of southern common knowledge, but not real Christian or neighborly once you look at it with compassion or thought.
We see our common disadvantaged and think, 'hick' or 'trash.' Politically we think, let's not waste the money we worked hard for on these lazy bastards. But the same propaganda that has molded us has also fooled the North. From a distance it is easy to see our less well off and think, Southerner. I have traveled much of the North-East. (by greyhound mostly) I have found similar folk all over this land. There are hicks everywhere. And Racism in Texas is no worse than New York or Chicago.
Still In many ways the South has shed much of the grace it once held. In my childhood, people said howdy, opened doors and pulled to the side of the road to let you pass. We held each man, woman and child to be a child of God. We knew that barn raising was what made our Nation great. Now we think that it is our businesses that make us great. Now we listen to Rush telling us to hate people on bicycles and nod in agreement.
In Texas many of the fine upstanding Christians were pleased with the removal of Prayer from schools. They were tired of false prayer. Propaganda stuck between clasping hands and Amen. Invocations to God that we might better crush the guts out of the other football team. Twisted explanations of biased dogma where the doctrine was being clearly explained to God.
Blasphemy, all of it, when put in perspective of Christ telling you to pray in a closet or strike your chest and cry, "Lord hear me, a sinner, have mercy upon me."
But years of hearing propaganda cursing the absence of prayer in school has worn logic down. The same propaganda machine has convinced otherwise thinking folk that evolution is against Scripture. So now a minority of radicals have decided for everyone that knowledge based on research and observation is evil. I always figured that not basing knowledge on research and observation was being a false witness. But then a big billboard of a ministers face seems damn close to being a graven image to me as well.
In Texas there are a lot of folk that are literalists or believe in inerrancy. If you don't know them big words, what they really mean is that to argue with their point of view is to argue with the Almighty God. These folk pick and choose what to believe or follow as much as any and more than most.

So, in a nutshell, we Southern Christians are Hard Working, Staunch Literal Bible-Thumpers. We just ignore the Ten Commandments as far as our leaders go, Any mention of the Lilies of the Field, loving thy neighbor and Matthew 25:31-46. If but for a moment we paused to consider our politics in the light of our faith, we would cry for days at our own betrayal and loss.

Matthew 25:31-46.
"But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?'
"The King will answer them, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.' Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'
"Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?'
"Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.' These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

[belle]

8. Very interesting, thank you for sharing.

[Walt Starr]

9. I disagree completely

Fundamentalism in ANY religion is a recipe for disaster. The Fundamentlaist Christians ARE the Radical Religious Right. There is no distinction.

[PurgedVoter]

15. It isn't black and white.

Understanding who people are is the first step. There is a Novella titled "Soldier Ask Not" a really good story sold at one time as a book. I agree so strongly with the protagonist even though in truth I belong in the group he is trying to destroy.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. That's your opinion. IMHO, we've been forced into a corner by....

...the NeoCons, the political rightwing, the religious rightwing, and the Fundies. Now that we're fighting our way out, I'm going to be VERY hard-pressed to give any of those groups any slack.

You think whatever you want, but ALL of those people are the ENEMY, and they are trying their level-best to politically/economically control us, and/or destroy us.

[Bridget Burke]

10. The Amish are Fundamentalists. The Mennonites are Fundamentalists.

They want to be left alone to live by the Bible as they see it. The history of many Fundamentalist groups involved oppression by an Established Church. Therefore, many of them had a history of avoiding involvement with politics.

The Religious Right can also be termed Dominionists or Christian Reconstructionists. They want to force the whole country into their vision of Old Testament life. (The often ignore the New Testament--That Guy said some fairly radical things.)

Here's a good place to learn how Fundamentalists & Evangelicals are NOT are enemy--unlike the folks who want to use "Religion" as a weapon.

www.theocracywatch.org/

You can also see how the Texas Republicans' involvement with the Southern Baptists was an early "victory" for the Religious Right.

[ComerPerro]

12. And, that's the great thing. They want to be left alone

However, the religious right (who are fundimentalists) want to force their way of life on everyone else.

[Bridget Burke]

13. The Religious Right pretends to speak for Fundamentalists ...

And/or Evangelicals. In fact, sometimes they claim to speak for all Christians.

I wonder if ANY of those using religion to gain political power actually have any faith at all?

[PurgedVoter]

14. I don't think the religious right are fundamentalists.

Fundamentalists (People who value the fundamentals of faith) examine the basis of their faith. Right wingers do not examine the basis of their faith. They say they are Fundamentalists, but in fact they are using the word fundamentalist as a code word, just like they use the phrase 'family values.' Family values, when said by a right winger, means that you desire the oppression of gays and wish to return women to being property. Fundamentalist when said by the right wing, means you want conservative religion to take over schools, courts and government agencies.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. While you're splitting hairs, the group you're choosing to exonerate....

...is taking another mile of our backside of that original inch they were allocated.

[Sgent]

11. Orthodox Jews

are fundamentilists in a religious sense. Socially they tend to be much more liberal (although that has changed somewhat recently). The reason for that is because the strictures of their religion essentially say to stay out of other peoples (non-jews) affairs.

[Touchdown]

20. If they are against the Constitution, anti-gay, and seek to

debate that in the public square to influence policy, yes they are.

People call themselves things they aren't all the time. Look at Tammy "I'm a progressive Democrat who is a lesbian femenist" Bruce. I believe them. It's what's in the heart that counts, not what somebody calls themselves. If they're hijacking your good titles of the different sects of your faith, then you need to speak up against THEM, not easy way out and admonish us for "saying the wrong thing"

When your gay as I am, and there are people who wish to bring back stoning for us, it's very hard to have any sympathy for a Christian who claims victimhood over the orwellian use of adjectives, especially when you cry to the wrong targets. Clean up you own damn house and stop bitching at your allies.