How Would You Improve Education?

[durutti]

The U.S. spends more on education than any other country, yet American students are consistently outperformed by students in many other countries. What can we really do to improve the American education system?

[rustydog]

1. the first step should be a grass-roots movement nationwide

to get the ultra-conservative religious wingnut schoolboard members ousted.
Get people with a brain whose main concern is educating our youth, not religious indoctrination forced by supreme court decisions on church and state.

[alcuno]

I agree.

Local school boards are worse than the Congress of the United States. Micromanagement of curricular issues by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[jafap]

35. Attach a date to the following quote:

First, God created idiots. This was for practice. Then he created school boards.

[E Pluribus Unum]

69. Exactly what are you talking about?

I went all the way through school in public schools and
not one time was I taught anything about religion. Would
you be more specific? Did you experience religious indoctrination
in public schools? If you did please tell us about it.

[proud patriot]

2. By equally spending county wide

by requiring a "ten year" (clause)
that would allow for BAD burnout teachers
to get out of the classroom and away from
children .

I would also allow for local control with
the clause that if you fall behind other
schools that an outside resource could be
brought in for advice and ideas .

And most of all I would build a communication
network for the community schools and local
business. So All in the community could find
out about each other and help each other out .

[snippy]

3. Smaller schools and much smaller school districts.

[ComerPerro]

7. No, I think you would need large districts for revenues

I think the most important issue is the student to teacher ratio. Class size is very important, especially in elementary education.

[snippy]

42. Why would revenue vary based on district size?

[LWolf]

43. Schools are funded based on ADA

"Average Daily Attendance." Which, in my state, means how many butts are in the seats when school starts. Excused absenses don't count. So even though we pay to keep the classroom open and the teacher in there, the actual funding varies with attendance. And the more kids you have, the more ada you get, the bigger the budget.

Some schools of thought advocate big schools and big districts because you then have fewer administrators in the big crowd, saving $$$.

I disagree. I've worked for both. Small schools and small districts are friendlier, more accessible, and more connected to the communities they serve.

And, just like everything else, the way schools are funded can and should be changed.

[snippy]

45. But if a large school or district receives 100 times $X per student, and

that school or district was split in two why couldn't each smaller school or district be able to receive 50 times $X per student?

I think your points about smaller schools and districts are good ones. There are several studies which conclude that smaller schools and districts are more effective. Two reasons I think this is so are that kids behave better when all the adults around know who they are, and concerned parents can have more effective input at smaller schools or districts. Another reason is that when a school superintendent becomes responsible for managing thousands of employees and tens of thousands of students, just managing the operational details becomes more than a full time job. The ability to manage thousands of people is unrelated to the ability to educate.

[NaMeaHou]

4. My quick thoughts

1) A thought without evidence of ever creating change:
Involve the parents more

2) Make every classroom a safe place to be. The adult is in charge, and whoever challenges that will no longer be in that classroom. Safety for the teacher and safety for the other students. (alternative schools exist for the incorrigible for the purpose of providing another chance. I believe most are probably coming from homes of drug or child abuse, and need more counselors and teachers per pupil than in a regular classroom).

3) Clinton tried to create zones in the inner cities for businesses to plant some roots. How about, rather than think kids need to go somewhere other than their neighborhood to learn, give incentives for teachers - who have come from those same or similar neighborhoods - to teach there?
How about giving incentives to the kids in the classroom? If you do exceptionally well, pay tuition and let them teach their children and childrens friends.

4) Pay more. It is bullshit when one hears or reads the average teacher salaries. Teachers do not get paid that much, and the job is tough as hell. If you want quality people teaching your children, provide a liveable wage.

5) I am not a fan of zero tolerance of almost anything, but this is one. Zero tolerance of drug usage/sales in the schools. It brings everyone down, and creates an atmosphere more than negative.

just some quick thoughts.

[lcordero]

5. adding one more month(at the least) to the school year

[Dookus]

6. hrmm...

higher teacher pay

allow dismissal of poor teachers

longer school year

parental "contracts" that outline the level of participation expected

vocational tracks starting in Junior High

reduce the silly standardized testing requirements now in place

prohibit the teaching of creationism

subsidized computers and internet connections for low income families

prohibit class sizes larger than 25 students, preferably 20 for elementary school

immediate removal of disruptive students who would be put into a separate, VERY strict program.

Reduction in number of administrators and other non-teaching professionals

Reduce reliance on state-approved textbooks

and about a thousand other things...

[Dookus]

8. oh...

and the biggy:

Don't make schools depend on their local communities for funding. We need to "spread the wealth", preferably on a state-wide level.

[proud patriot]

33. I agree on the funding issue should be state or county divided

:hi:

[LeahMira]

48. A wee aside here, but ...

parental "contracts" that outline the level of participation expected


How do you enforce this one?

[mb7588a]

9. a few thoughts

Primary and Secondary education:
An easy way to get rid of bad teachers.
Graduation tests.
No academic course (obviously excludes art and music etc) enrollment counts above 15.
Require seniors in high school to be full time students while also increasing enrollment in eperiential education programs.


Post-Secondary education (especially for state funded schools):
Ditch standardized test requirements.
Smaller classes.
Dump a whole lot of money into Financial Aid.
Guarantee Financial Aid and tuition increases are proportional.
Someone without a PHd should not teach a class or grade student work.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. In fact, MA's can and do teach very well

It depends on the subject and the level. (Note: I have a PhD, so I'm not being defensive here.)

Also, being a T.A. is the college-level equivalent of student teaching. However, I agree that inexperienced T.A.'s should not be put in complete charge of a class.

[illini]

10. I would call for a separation of Education and Sports.

Schools need to get back to the job of education!!!!!!!!! :smoke:

[George_Bonanza]

11. Sports are key to a school's identity

Without sports and a team to root for, I think school morality and identity would not really exist. School A and school B would be interchangeable for students. But throw in old rivalries, and kids care about their schools more.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Maybe you identified with your school because of sports, but

a lot of kids are turned off by the over-emphasis.

This treating athletes as young gods and goddesses or acting as if there's something wrong with a kid who isn't in sports is one of the factors ruining U.S. education.

The athletes are the royalty, and the academically oriented kids are the geeks who are tormented by the royalty. In that kind of atmosphere, who wants to be intellectual?

What's so great about that? We need educated people, and we're glorifying the jocks, who may or may not have a brain in their heads and often don't.

Why not get kids excited about having the most science fair winners or the best drama productions?

And why shouldn't schools be interchangeable, in the sense that each one of them offers an excellent education. We're talking schools here, not warring states.

Do you know how school sports got started in the first place? They were started in the English boarding schools in the Victorian era because the education experts of the period believed that vigorous participation in sports would tire the boys out and ensure that they would fall asleep immediately at light out and not (gasp!) masturbate. I'm not making this up.

Sports are a diversion, not the purpose of school. They should get no more support or adulation than any other extra-curricular activity. I'd rather ensure physical fitness by having all the students walking or biking to school instead of selecting a few elites to spend hours a day in practice while the other students just watch.

[George_Bonanza]

38. True

The adoration of athletes can be overwhelming. But physically impressive people are devastatingly easy to admire. Adoration of physically superior beings is evident in all facets of life and history.

Naturally, a fine balance must be given. School's not all about books, but school's not all about sports either. One can't ban the other without being unfair to a particular type of child. What to do? What to do?

[LeahMira]

50. What to do?

School's not all about books, but school's not all about sports either. One can't ban the other without being unfair to a particular type of child. What to do? What to do?


Thank you for recognizing that not all students are alike in talents and in learning styles.

That said, it sounds as if you see sports is a motivator, i.e. students will make the effort to do reasonably well in the other subjects so they can stay on the team.

If that's the case, then let's spend at least as much on the arts... dance, drama, visual arts, music, etc., because some students will definitely make the effort to do reasonably well in gym classes and the academic subjects so they can be in the play, perform in the recital, have their work displayed in the art show, etc.

Actually, if you think about it, most of us learned our ABCs by singing that "alphabet song" and I'd bet a lot of us sing it to ourselves to this day when it comes to filing type chores. Maybe some learned the multiplication tables in the same general way. I believe that the arts can be used as teaching tools in the everyday classroom and there's no need to limit art to a 45 minute class period once a week... especially in the lower grades!

I imagine others here will have their own "favorite" subjects and programs, but it just frosts me that schools pour money into sports programs and at the same time cut music and art classes. (It also frosts me that our government is so stingy about funding the NEH and NEA.)

[blkgrl]

30. I agree n/t

[George_Bonanza]

12. Get rid of tenure when dealing with old bad teacher and good new teacher

At my school, a superb teacher got laid off because of constricting funds, while a couple of stupid do-nothing ones stayed on because of this "tenure". I realize that teachers need a motive to stay put, but sometimes, a good teacher outstrips a bad one, no matter how long they've stayed. They should poll the students, just get a consensus. Don't rely a 100% on it by any means, but get an idea of who's doing their jobs properly and who's not.

[LeahMira]

51. Tenure...

At my school, a superb teacher got laid off because of constricting funds, while a couple of stupid do-nothing ones stayed on because of this "tenure". I realize that teachers need a motive to stay put, but sometimes, a good teacher outstrips a bad one, no matter how long they've stayed. They should poll the students, just get a consensus. Don't rely a 100% on it by any means, but get an idea of who's doing their jobs properly and who's not.


If there are "stupid, do-nothing" teachers in a school, there are ways for the school administration to guide them out the door, tenured or otherwise. Teachers unions have set up a requirement that teachers be observed by their supervisors at least once a year... in some states more often, but at least once. After the observation, the supervisor is required to do a written evaluation which becomes part of the teacher's record and is kept on file. The teacher and the supervisor schedule a meeting at which this evaluation is discussed and the teacher signs the evaluation to indicate that s/he has read it. S/he may then include a rebuttal or protest which s/he files within a period of time, usually ten days or two weeks from the meeting. That is also kept on file. When a teacher receives several unacceptable evaluations in a row and has demonstrated nothing to change whatever is noted as the problem, that gives the supervisor and administration grounds for dismissal... even if the teacher has twenty years in teaching and tenure up to the eyeballs. Note, please, that the teachers' unions are the group responsible for this system because they want to protect their members against unfair dismissals while at the same time preventing "stupid, do-nothing" teachers from dragging down the professional reputation and morale of the teachers who are working hard and well daily in their classrooms.

Teachers don't need tenure as a motive to stay put. They are like anyone else... their spouses' jobs may require the family to move, or they may decide to follow another career, or whatever. The one thing that does keep teachers put is a good working environment. Many, if not most, settle for less than ideal salaries because they have a supportive administration and a nice group of parents and kids to deal with. Naturally, teachers aren't willing to starve and they do need some health benefits for themselves and their families, but, given a reasonable salary and reasonable benefits, a great work environment keeps a teacher in your school.

[jame]

13. I've got 3 teens in school...

And for this small (pop 475 in H.S. alone) school, at least to me solutions are right in front of us:
1. Dump as much non teaching admin as possible.
2. Focus on the basics:Math, Physical and Biological Sciences, Reading/Writing composition, History.
3. Dump "Fluff classes such as Marketing, CAD Design, etc.
4. Hold teachers acountable. My kids hit the door at 3:15. The teachers hit the door at 3:18. Hard work? Really? Where? I'd kill for the summer off, and they make more, at least in my locale, than most think they do.
5. Hold parents accountable. Your kid is supposed to be in school. I don't care if United is having really cheap flights, and little Jimmy always wanted to see Disney World.
6.Kids are in school between 8:00 AM and 3:00 PM. And they don't leave.
7. Teachers quit chewing gum during class.
8. And finally...Could EVERONE get the soft drinks off your desk and out of the classroom?

[LWolf]

16. Ok. Look right here:

1. I hit the door at 7am. I leave anywhere between 5:30 and 6:30 p.m. I have one 30 minute lunch break during that time, which I often spend working. And I take work home. And I'm still never, ever, really done. And I spend the "summer" on mandatory professional development to keep my credential updated, planning and setting up for the next year, and trying to accomplish a years' worth of mundane home chores/responsibilities which didn't get done because I spent all my time working during the school year. This summer I visited the dentist and the doctor, which I made sure I didn't do when I would have had to get a substitute. I fixed the roof, the bathroom, and part of a fence. I did the maintenance on my car I'd put off, and finished some yard projects. I put the garage back in order, hauled home 7 truckloads full of personal equipment from work, unloaded and stored them, and then hauled them all back for the new year. By the time all was said and done, I had about a week that I spent not doing "work" or "home" work. You think we don't work hard enough? I'd like to see you last a week.

2. I do not allow gum or soda to cross my threshhold at any time. Not with me, my students, or anyone else.

The rest I can agree with, to one degree or another. But...I invite you to come spend a week in my classroom. You don't have to follow me home with the piles and piles of papers, but you ought to walk in the door with me and keep working until I'm done at the end of the day. Spend your own cash on the supplies we are using for a week. Then decide if I work hard enough or get paid too much.

[LWolf]

14. Here's a start for you:

1. Small classes, small schools, small districts.

2. Power to set policy, budget, and make curricular decisions belongs to the stakeholders; the families and teachers at the school site. Administrators at the site and district level facilitate their decisions. They dictate nothing.

3. Abolish high-stakes testing and standardized minutia. Adopt a short, broad, general framework to organize curriculum around on a national level. Then leave all of the details up to the locals. Including assessment. And I don't mean the states. I mean the locals. I don't even mean the districts, in many cases. I mean the school itself.

4. Equitable funding. Pay teachers what they are worth, and provide them with the facilities, support, and materials they need to do the job.

5. Two year paid internships to replace the current "student teaching" portion of the credentialing process. Internships to be spent as classroom assistants at various grade levels. At the end of the internship, the full credential is not issued if the intern isn't ready to take on the job.

6. Parent education. Starting with ob/gyns during pregnancy. Training in the "habits of mind" and other daily habits that nurture children and their brain development.

7. Open, frequent, personal communication between parents and teachers, working as a team to best serve the needs of the student. Time provided to teachers to allow for this abundant communication.

[Darranar]

15. PAY TEACHERS MORE!

That is a very important step. A lot of what is now being spent is wasted on worthless tests that rarely find anything.

Change around the school curriculum. Focus more on Science, History, and Mathematics. Encourage reading in every way possible.

Rework the honors system to fit in more levels. Sometimes, the smartest kids are being forced to move too slow for them and the less smart kids are forced to move too fast.

Host regular lectures from various politicians, scientists, and mathemiticians. Start this at an earlier age than it is now.

Start guranteeing college for all Americans.

SMALLER SCHOOLS!

[DuctapeFatwa]

17. Public education in the US is doing precisely what it is intended to do

For millions of minority and low income children, it provides valuable conditioning in the process of going somewhere every morning, sitting in one place and doing as you are told, day in and day out for years, without gaining any appreciable benefit.

In most cases it is successful in countering tendencies in children that could lead to unrealistic and disruptive expectations for their socio-economic status, and it produces a sufficient amount of heart-warming George Washington Carver stories to provide a positive psychological benefit for the affluent classes.

The public education system was never intended to provide more education than is convenient for the elite.

Over 40% of public school high school graduates can read well enough to be considered functionally literate!

[NaMeaHou]

18. Or more precisely

"For millions of minority and low income children, it provides valuable conditioning in the process of going somewhere every morning, sitting in one place and doing as you are told, day in and day out for years, without gaining any appreciable benefit."

Education tells them to get the hell out.

[Darranar]

19. You know, Mr. Fatwa...

the more I read and think about your posts, the less I want to believe them but the more I end up doing so.

[LeahMira]

53. Whew!

Shall I get asbestos sunglasses to read that post? Do they make asbestos sunglasses? :-)

I taught elementary school children for nearly twenty years and I've seen a few of "my kids" get in trouble and many more of them go on to do pretty well for themselves. I agree, though, that there are not a few that I believed would do better than they actually did. I guess I tended to think that they were brighter than they actually were, or maybe somewhere along the way they were convinced that they couldn't do everything that I hoped they would do. Honestly, though, I never once thought that any of my little students would be functionally illiterate. They certainly could read when they left my classroom!

But I did leave teaching about fifteen years ago and perhaps things are different now. I do think that there is too much corporate input into the school system these days. Some of the corporations are putting out study guides and kits for teachers to use to teach economics in the classroom, for instance. It's easy for a teacher, especially a new teacher who starts out with next to nothing in the way of ideas and resources, to grab onto these kits and use them "as is."

Also, there are corporations that give significant grants to schools to teach certain subjects of particular interest to that corporation. Even corporations that donate computers to the schools are doing that to guarantee future orders for their computers and software when their donations become outdated, and to guarantee that the students will buy a computer that they are already familiar with when they graduate and go off to college or to jobs of their own.

IMO, there's too much of this kind of thing. I also worry that our kids are being more prepared to fit into data-entry type jobs and are not challenged enough in the realms of thinking, comparing and contrasting, analyzing, determining cause and effect, and some of these kinds of thinking skills. But I also lay part of the problem at the feet of some parents who are so competitive that they want their child to read at eighth grade level when the child is in second grade. A reasonably good student can sound out words but usually has next to no idea what the words mean or what the main idea is.

Also, nearly anyone can learn to add and subtract accurately, but that individual may have no idea about when and why to add and when and why to subtract numbers. They do well enough on the standardized tests, but they aren't really that bright. Still, parents like the standardized tests. Again, I tend to think that parents are more into competition than they are into learning.

So, I suppose the point of all of this is that if you think the public schools are preparing drones, demand better of them. You are being taxed, even if you don't have kids in school, so certainly you have a legitimate voice in what happens in the schools. If you do have kids in school, pay attention at home to what they are learning and pass along your own values and skills to your kids.

Teachers do appreciate help from wherever it comes, so make sure that some of that help comes from you.

[DuctapeFatwa]

60. No teacher-bashing intended. Many teachers are human beings

And as such have certain limitations.

There are many teachers who could do a terrific job with a class of 10 or 12 kids who do a lousy job with a class of 40.

A teacher can certainly inspire and encourage children to value education, but if that teacher is the only adult the child knows who values it, the inspiration will be less effective.

And as long as a teenage boy can make more money doing off the books "ruf" than he is likely to get at either McDonalds or if by some miracle he makes it through college and becomes a teacher, by which time his mom has been evicted, he is unlikely to know a whole hell of a lot of people who value education the way that inspiring teacher does.

Too many individual teachers, in short, find themselves in the position of a Palestinian child with a rock facing down a tank.

Teachers can do good things, sometimes great things, and once in a while work miracles, but they cannot change years of systemic and institutionalized classism and racism outside the classroom.

Many teachers do buy materials out of their own pocket, but few can afford to repair buildings, replace outdated and/or poor to mediocre textbooks mandated by the school board president whose brother in law owns the publishing company.

Teachers may be dedicated, talented, and good at what they do, but just as it is not fair to force children of low income families to be George Washington Carver in order to have a chance of getting a job with a living wage and purchasing a modest starter home, it is not fair to expect teachers to be Marva Collins in order to find time between state mandated curricula to impart individualized, enriched and intellectually useful education to their students.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

20. There is only one way

Reduce class size to 10-15 students per class.

[srpantalonas]

21. Better Prinicpals, Better Pay, Parity in funding

I'm not sure the stats are right--I'm not sure we spend the most on education. Where are you getting that?

[sweetheart]

24. the right to teach

The right is focused backwards like in supply-side economics. We should put the concern rather than on the student, on the teacher and the institution of teaching.

A teacher has a right to reject a student, like a mother pig has the right to reject a suckling from a teet. It is the STUDENT's responsibility to learn and get an education, not a teacher's obligation to force one.... what lofty theory eh?

In practice this means that the teacher has the right to select their own curriculum and textbooks and teaching methods... let the best and most innovative teachers succeed and inspire the rest... as indeed, teaching is local and individual, not institutional and federal.

To improve the system, the eduction system must no longer hold responsibility for daycare for the kids. There should be a series of state supported examination institutions that can verify that the learning level of a student is of a certain degree. It is not the teacher's responsibility to make sure a student achieves these levels, rather the student's responsibility. A student may attend using their education credits any classes of any level of education at any time. Included in this is the right to change families, live in other places and become educated in a different life... or style of living.

Let diversity exist, and let students select their own interest in that regard.. only let the state standards body authenticate that a student is of a certain level of attainment, and let no other body focus on that punative and small detail...

This principle will allow teachers to send students away who obviously do not want to be in their classes, and to have no issues about that. It lets teachers use their own innovation to develope and refine their own curriculum as they see fit given the curcumstances and environment of learning. It lets private innovation select the best students, teachers and schools rather than some centrally failed cumbersome system of state brainwashing.

What the question you ask really begs is a retort regarding why we should want to improve the american brainwashing system... and my view is that it should be disbanded... leaving each school and teacher to settle their own scores with their own students... and only having a attainment board as federal.

[Bushknew]

25. School is all about memorization and not about thinking.

Students donÕt have time to think, theyÕre too busy reading, memorizing and regurgitating.

I donÕt remember most of the facts I had to memorize in school, do you?

Therefore, I think if students debated, they would learn the facts of their subject, critical thinking skills, argumentation and semantics all at the same time.

It would be fun to learn because itÕs an active way of learning, just reading and regurgitating is too passive and boring.

But thatÕs the whole point of school, breaking down the student with years of memorization and busy work.

Teachers should explain the big picture of an idea before drowning and losing a student
in the minutia of a concept.

[Xithras]

26. Basically: Eliminate schools as they now exist.

1.) Build more, smaller schoolhouses - No kid should live more than three or four blocks from school. Student density and class sizes would be dramatically lowered, and each school would only need three or four teachers, with one designated as "head". Rather than the large sprawling educational centers we have today, we'd have single building schools with only a few active classrooms. The schools would be so small that the kids would all know each other and develop social bonds.

2.) Eliminate grades - No, not the ABCDF kind, the K-12 kind. Kids should be able to float between grade levels as needed. If a 9 year old can do 12th grade math but is still stuck at 4th grade geography, he should be able to study at those levels. This would essentially mean grouping kids by age...5-10 years in one class, 10-15 in another, and 15-18 in another. Another advantage of this concept is that kids would be bound to a single teacher and classroom for several years in a row. A natural trust and relationship between the teacher and pupils could develop in an environment like that which would be VERY conducive to learning.

3.) Encourage student tutoring - This was a brilliant concept that schools USED to utilize, but have abandoned in many areas today. If you have one kid who is good at math and another who stinks at it, the good kid should be encouraged to help the struggling one. Every school should have at least an hour a day set aside for this kind of assistance IN CLASS. Not only will it help kids by letting them learn from their peers, it encourages social interaction (imagine kids getting grades depending on how "helpful" they were to other students).

4.) Spend more time on each subject - Think: Monday is history day, Tuesday is math day...etc. OK, maybe a full day of math is a bit much, but you get the general concept. By the time kids reach high school today, they're only spending about 40 minutes per subject per day in a class (I know classes are longer than that, but it takes time to get everyone settled, get the books out, etc.) Learning research indicates that it takes the typical persom 20 minutes of reading before they begin to permanently learn, which means that our kids are currently only absorbing 20 minutes per subject, per day.

I could probably rattle off 50 more, but those are the top four things I would change at the moment.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. 1. Smaller classes, first and foremost

No more than 15 students at the elementary level.

When I tutored street kids who were studying for their GEDs, I found that most of them couldn't do higher level arithmetic. They had a lot of trouble with such things as long division and fractions. When I asked them about their elementary school experiences, they said that they began struggling in about fourth or fifth grade, but with so many students in the class, the teacher never seemed to notice.

With 15 students in the class, a teacher can handle just about anything.

2. Raise both the pay and the qualifying standards for teachers. (Based on what I know of the Japanese system.) School teaching is the highest paying job that a new four-year graduate can get, and only the best students are allowed into education programs. Require high school teachers to have a major in the subjects they teach. No more of this giving the civics class to the football coach.

3. Set state standards for general content, but not the details of how the subjects are taught. Let teachers teach in the way that best suits their personalities but don't interfere as long as the students are learning.

4. Use standardized tests for internal reference only.

5. Maintain discipline and remove consistently disruptive students.

6. Emphasize core academic subjects and the arts. Be demanding enough to earn the respect that sports coaches automatically get in our warped culture.

7. Put sports in their proper place, as just another extra-curricular activity, not the school religion. According to an article that was in the Minneapolis paper lately, high school athletes spend 2-3 hours a day on their sport, outside of matches and games, and also work on extra conditioning. In such a situation, something has to give, and it's often academics, or, if the student is conscientious, sleep and sanity.

Other activities teach all the "virtues" that sports supposedly teach. Being in theater or a musical ensemble teaches teamwork, dependability, and hard work, for example.

(Oh, and that typical coach's claim that all the athletes are on the honor roll? How many of the A students are in sports just so they won't be tormented by other jocks? Quite a few, I bet. In my day, the phenomenon manifested itself as smart boys joining the football team and smart girls joining the cheerleading squad to avoid bullying or catty behavior.

[Egnever]

37. Say it again! SMALLER CLASS SIZES 1ST!!!!!!!

Add to that increasing teachers salaries and we have a start.

Great post :bounce:

[blkgrl]

28. More community based, hands on approach

1) Hold mandatory seminars every week in which successful individuals from the community talk about their profession and their experiences in the profession (including the steps it took to get there). These speakers should include entrepreneurs, college graduates, high school graduates (who've made a way for themselves).

2) Instead of just having paper/pencil courses, make the courses hands on. Teach skills related to computers, technology, etc. Some of these fields seems hard, abstract from a distance, but these are the fields that young people can catch onto very quickly when exposed to it.

3) Schedule regular field trips to job sites, have students write reports on what they learned during the visits.

4) Make the idea of college a more comfortable concept (this can be accomplished through doing a good job with idea #1)

My suggestions are mainly geared towards disadvantaged kids who may not be exposed to enough role models.

[LeahMira]

54. Nice ideas...

I'd also suggest asking some of the "speakers" to consider mentoring relationships with some of the students so it isn't just a one shot contact. Also, field trips to museums, theater performances, and historic sites, etc. are worthwhile. These are places that disadvantaged kids especially often never see.

[JanMichael]

29. Home Schooling. That and Private Schools.

That's obviously the only way.

[LeahMira]

55. They certainly have their place...

... but they certainly aren't "the only way."

Private schools and home schooling may work for students with special needs. A good friend home schooled her son who has CP. It was the best for him in the situation since he was sort of a population of one no matter what situation he was in. She was a teacher for several years before he was born, though, and knew how to teach children. Teaching is not something that just any parent can do! Not at all!

Other than special needs kids, though, I prefer the magnet schools idea. For instance, if a student is particularly gifted in the sciences or in the performing arts... or in whatever, the magnet school provides a more intensive experience in that area but still covers all the basics.

For the average student, though, I do think that the public school is absolutely the best. I know that no parent considers his or her child "average," but really, most of them are and average isn't a bad thing in this case. The public school provides a student with the best opportunity to develop a variety of skills and abilities that prepare him/her for whatever s/he chooses after graduation. Cant' beat that!

[Hippo_Tron]

31. Ummm define spends more than any other country.

We also have a lot more students than other countries in comparison (IE France, England). I think we need more distributed wealth amongst the school districts and to do that state government needs to play a bigger role. We need good administrators because good administrators leads to good teachers. Teachers need to be evaluated by results of their students and they need to be observed every so often. I don't think just asking teachers to take a test or go take a class in teaching is the way to go considering I had a very good teacher in high school who never got a degree in teaching. He majored in biology and just went to take a few courses in teaching to mear the bare minimum requirements.

[Wapsie B]

32. And

Get rid of the pressure of standardized test scores
Education mandatory through 12th grade
No one gets a high school diploma without grade level reading and writing skills.

[nemo137]

34. hammer reading and writing skills like there's no tomorrow

these teach thinking skills, and and are used no matter what you do. once you fix this, you can compensate for the others, to an extent. it's not the best solution, but it's the first and possibly most vital thing to do.

[George_Bonanza]

36. I agree

Teach a kid to read well, and it'll be helluva lot easier to motivate him to find his own answers than if he's a poor reader. Reading and writing are the basic building blocks, and they need to be "hammered in". All this stuff about debating and critical thinking come after.

[Bushknew]

44. Years of memorization and busy work does not encourage intellectual curios

Years of memorization and busy work does not encourage intellectual curiosity, it impedes it.

[JVS]

39. you must hammer math

[LWolf]

41. Be careful;

these can teach thinking skills, but don't have to. We are currently in a cycle that has been hammering "reading and writing" like never before...and the kids are thinking less than ever.

Why? It's all in the definition of "reading and writing," and which segments of reading and writing are hammered.

This current crop of kids (from the last decade) do a better job of sounding out words than the crop before. They've had plenty of phonics. But...they have been so drilled and so reinforced for just that, that they are convinced being able to say the words on the page is reading. They don't engage with the meaning, and actually resist efforts to get them to think about what they are reading. Because it wasn't an integral part of "reading" when they "learned."

Let's say we need to hammer literacy and numeracy, which, by definition, both include thinking skills!

[LeahMira]

56. They are certainly important...

... in our culture, but they are not essential to critical thinking. In fact, if the critical thinking is not there, the reading and writing skills will flounder as well.

[jafap]

40. where is Socrates when you need him?

I am pulling my usual un-Dale-Carnegie, but I seem to see alot of people who clearly do not know and yet seem to be quite confident that they do know. A few examples:

"2) Make every classroom a safe place to be. The adult is in charge, and whoever challenges that will no longer be in that classroom."
Yes, why don't we make "education" a totally fascistic experience. No deviance.

"higher teacher pay" - a consistent line of teacher propaganda. My uncle the teacher spent his summers camping. My cousin the teacher has made a couple trips to Hawaii, the Rose Bowl, Europe. Yah, she is hurting for money.

"allow dismissal of poor teachers" - on the other hand, some anti-union propaganda. Not that goof-offs should be coddled anywhere, but the idea that this is enough of the problem to rate mention.

"longer school year"

"5. Hold parents accountable. Your kid is supposed to be in school. I don't care if United is having really cheap flights, and little Jimmy always wanted to see Disney World."

Yes, I always love the idea that we should make childhood even harder than it is. Pile kids with work and pressure - they will thrive on it. Working our asses off is the only way we can maintain our great standard of living (sorta begs the question doesn't it). Also we have the idea that learning only takes place in school. Funny how we all manage to learn to walk and talk without taking classes. I also bet that my mom was more important in teaching me how to read than all of my teachers put together.

"Someone without a PHd should not teach a class or grade student work."(at college)
(Expletive deleted) It is pretty clear to me that this is the opinion of someone who has not taken very many classes from people with PhDs.

"3. Dump "Fluff classes such as Marketing, CAD Design, etc."

This is a joke, right? Life in the US is all about marketing. Lack of marketing ability is the reason I lost my last job. My employers could care less about my ability to do quantum physics or differential equations. They wanted me to sell, sell, sell. They also much preferred speed to accuracy. CAD also sounds like a very useful class. Typing was a class that I never took, in order to maintain my GPA, and now I see lots of decent jobs as Admin. Assistants.

I do not pretend to know what we need, but I am worried about values more than I am about how well American kids "perform." As Vonnegut wrote: "There had been much progress in the knowledge of how to do things. It was regrettable that there had been much less progress in the knowledge of things worth doing."

[LWolf]

62. Find Socrates here.

At least, sometimes. Because I regularly use "Socratic seminars" as a teaching strategy. And because everything we do is inquiry based.

Yours was a very thoughtful response, and I agree with most. I have just one dispute:

"higher teacher pay" - a consistent line of teacher propaganda. My uncle the teacher spent his summers camping. My cousin the teacher has made a couple trips to Hawaii, the Rose Bowl, Europe. Yah, she is hurting for money.

My annual salary looks middle class. That's before you take out the TSA for retirement...no social security here, and I cashed in 12 years of PERS retirement to pay my bills and provide medical insurance for my family while I did my student teaching to earn my credential.

Then take out another 10% or so for what I spend out of my pocket during the year to keep my classroom going.

I'm still paying student loans; it cost me $15,000 in tuition after I finished my AA...for the BA plus 30 for a California credential.

Suddenly it doesn't look like so much.

Married teachers, when there are 2 incomes, seem to do ok. At least, better than I do. I do own a home; it is a 60 year old cottage zoned industrial, at the edge of a neighborhood full of the working poor; mostly renters. My little cottage is about 800 square feet, and comes with a host of maintenance problems. I'm able to do this because, in the area that I teach, real estate prices are lower in relation to teacher salary than in most places.

I drive a 10 year old vehicle with 200,000 + miles, and can't afford to trade it in for another.

I can afford to drive the 800 miles to visit my mom once or twice a year; I go shorter distances for weekends once or twice a year. That is the sum of my recreational time.

I spend my summers doing professional development, repairing the damned house, and catching up on all of the chores I didn't find time to do during the year. Because I was working 70-80 hours a week for that paycheck.

Frankly, I think what I do is worth a lot more than I bring home.

[skippysmom]

46. teachers' salaries

I disagree with those who feel that teachers make too much money because they know a teacher who took a nice vacation. Yes, teachers do better than say, Wal-Mart employees, but considering that in many states you need an advanced degree to teach, shouldn't they be paid fairly?

There was recently a LTTE in my local paper here in Mass complaining because our school district has teachers who make $50-60K, which in his/her opinion was way too much. More than likely they earn that much money because they have been in the system for many years. Not to mention that, with housing costs skyrocketing, $50-60K isn't going to buy much.

However, I don't think that salaries are what's keeping the "best and the brightest" out of the profession. After all, in our uncertain economy, a steady job that offers tenure, fairly regular raises, health insurance, and union protections, you would think that teaching would be more attractive. But with the contempt so many people hold for teachers, it's no wonder many people don't want to teach.

I don't know what the solution is, however.

Other things that would help make education better:
Equalizing funding formulas (so that poorer districts can be as good as the more affluent ones)
Streamlining bureaucracy (allow teachers to do their jobs)
Reducing standardized testing (what do the tests tell you anyway? richer districts do better than poor districts. well, duh.)
Promoting learning among all Americans (I am consistently appalled at how anti-intellectual we are in this country.)

[wyldwolf]

47. a universal nationwide curriculum...

... and required IT/technology courses with higher standards of passing, i.e., 75 and over is a passing grade.

[LeahMira]

57. You would be surprised...

... at how difficult it is for people to agree on what should be included in any national curriculum. Have you read anything about the national history standards effort? Shall we teach history to include the history of minority groups in this country or shall we teach history that focuses on presidents and battles? Shall we teach about the history of the civilizations of all the world's nations or only about the history of western civilization? Oy! Speaking of topics that get folks riled!

[Olivier]

49. By learning how media work ?

Maybe a class (in all countries) about decoding media and learn how to keep a reasonable distance about what is said on TV would be useful for many young people.
As said Montaigne, "Better a well-made head than a well-filled one".

[texastoast]

52. Revamp Our Concept of "Education"

How many of you liberal arts types practice algebra and calculus in your real-world jobs? How many of you mathy folks worry about correct spelling and punctuation? How many of you work-with-your- hands types practice the art of communication or debate, remember parliamentary procedure, or care about equations beyond what you do using a mitre box or square rule? How about you athletes? Like that history?

What a waste of time it was for me to study high-level math. I run from any job that has anything to do with it. I have never used algebraic formulas unless I could switch them to word problems. My math friends hardly can function with grammar rules.

I think we need to give children a well-rounded education up to, say, eighth grade. Then let the child tell the teacher what he or she wants to learn and concentrate on and really educate with a view to on the child's nature, talents, and proclivities. Fitting all children into untailored education box is ludicrous. Give children an opportunity to blossom as a bad speller, genius musician, and gifted artist. Shoving Ayn Rand down a high-school football player's throat is expensive and pointless.

Further . . .

Devoted teachers should make what TV anchors make and not the other way around. Administration should get the hell out of the teachers' way. Stupid assessment tests like we have in Texas focus more on the school getting a good grade than whether a student gets a good education.

[LeahMira]

58. I was not good at algebra either!

I think we need to give children a well-rounded education up to, say, eighth grade. Then let the child tell the teacher what he or she wants to learn and concentrate on and really educate with a view to on the child's nature, talents, and proclivities. Fitting all children into untailored education box is ludicrous.


I was good at geometry though. :-)

What you suggest is a lot like what is done in some other countries. Children after a certain point are tracked into programs that are appropriate to their skills and abilities. I agree that vocational education gets short shrift in this country and that it's the best answer for students who plan to be skilled tradesmen and/or small business owners.

I do wish that parents would get over the idea that unless their child is college bound they are being shortchanged or dissed in some way. Heck, most electricians with no college earn more than most teachers with masters degrees! College isn't the be all and end all for everyone.

And I really think that shoving Ayn Rand down anyone's throat is a bad idea.

[LeftHander]

59. Fix schools - Heres a list.

We have to change not only how the schools are funded but the culture around our children. We need to foster an environment that facilitates learning. TV, lack of sleep, poor nutrition, too much sugar, no exercise and lazy parents make for lousy students.

1. Fund - Stop sending billions to Iraq and Halliburton
2. Tax the rich - Fund the Schools
3. Eliminate Corporate influence over education (No coke, pepsi, McDonalds, Burger King, etc in our schools
4. NO CHANNEL ONE!!!! NO COMMERCIALS!
5. More ART, MUSIC, Literature
6. Year round schooling in Urban areas - We live in a urban society now...fewer % of kids don't have to work on the farm any more.
7. Pay Teachers - They are professionals, we should treat them so
8. Get text book selection out of the hands of people with political and religious agendas.
9. Parents READ to your KIDS everyday when until they can read books them selves then sit together reading as a family.
10. Parents make sure homework is done.
11. Kids...Stop watching the fucking TV!! Turn it OFF!
12. Kids READ some books for fun!!
13. Term limits on school boards.
14. Never shop at a mall - Stop turning our kids into shallow little consumers.
15. Eat at least 4 dinners together at the table with the TV off...
16. Kids go to bed early. Teens 9, Pre-teens 8:30, under that 8 p.m. That is in bed ready to sleep. You can read if you want to for 30 minutes.
17. Eat healthy!
18. Longer recess with vigorus activity...
19. Don't turn you kid into a small version of yourself. Because how do you know if you are a moron or not. Expect more.
20. Love them and give lots of praise...
21. Volunteer at school. Any way you can.
22. Throw the Playstation into the trash.
23. Limit IM and internet computer time.
24. Don't be afraid to PAY some taxes to pay directly for education.

[Nederland]

61. Force Schools to compete

Competition breeds excellence. Give all parents the same freedom that rich people have: the freedom to choose their child's school.

[cap]

64. sorry but what upper middle class schools

will take an influx of kids from the ghetto? It just won't happen.

We simply need a nationwide standard of what is good physical infrastructure for a school and fund all schools appropriately to bring the schools up to standard on a federal level. Economically depressed areas should not have their children's education slighted. Children should participate in cleaning their classroom. That will help them to take care of it.

Good schools for all kids.

We need after school programs for all kids until 6:00 pm. This way parents who are holding two jobs in order to make ends meet can have their kids get the extra tutoring that they may need. Ever try reading to a kid after working 12 hours a day? It's exhausting.

[Nederland]

66. Money is Money

sorry but what upper middle class schools will take an influx of kids from the ghetto? It just won't happen.

Sure it will. If you set up a system that provides a certain number of dollars for every student you take in, schools will make an effort to get every student they can, regardless of class or race. Heck, if it concerns you, you could even set up the system so that taking in a poor kid gets you more money than taking in a rich or middle class kid. Create a market for something and the market will respond.

[GinaMaria]

63. Experimentation

My personal opinion is that it's time to experiment with curriculum. It's time to look at top performing schools in the World and set up schools that mimic their curriculum. For example Eton. What's their curriculum? Set up a school that copies the format and curriculum, then test, test and test again. Measure the results honestly, tweak as needed. Look at Latin schools, look at science schools and art schools. Maybe our schools could try to offer different curriculums. There is so much we could try. We could offer students many more choices.

There's my two Lincolns for this morning :-)

Peace,
Gina

[Bridget Burke]

67. Houston has Magnet Schools

The program was well-established before Ron Paige was Superintendant & he didn't manage to wreck it while he was here. They go from elementary through high school & offer a range of options. Gifted programs, career-based programs, etc. Some require entry exams & all have more applicants than they can handle.

Due to recent budget cuts, the HISD finally had to reduce the program a bit; they tried administrative cuts first but they were not enough. If there were more money, couldn't there be MORE magnet schools? But that would be "throwing money at the schools" & "everybody knows that the system is broken". (I really wish that somebody would send out a new list of catchphrases; the old list is getting really shopworn.)

[bleedingheart]

65. Getting the Parents to care.

Education doesn't stop at the school...it should extend to the family.

My kids go to a large district but we have a great record because:

1. Majority of parents care and are involved.
2. We pay our teacher competitively
3. We have a good school board that represents our communities best interests and those of our children.

[mbee]

68. Embrace EVERY CHILD as being gifted and talented in something!

All intelligences should be respected, not just those connected with the logistics and linguistics. Let the child go where their interests lead them after they are taught the basics. Many of those who excel in science and math may not get enought exercise and could have poor health early in life. We all can contribute something to society if we just get rid of this elitist thinking that we only have worth if we do a certain thing for a living or make straight A's in Math and Science. A variety of talents in different areas makes our world more balanced. We need scientists, teachers, bankers, brick-layers, auto mechanics, artists, secretaries, musicians, etc. The elite in our society want a % of undereducated so they can stock their discount stores and fast foods! It's a pity!