I am SICK of all these idiotic Wal Mart crap posts.

[karlrschneider]

Yes, they are a predatory and scumbag company. We all know that. But all this horse shit about shopping carts left in the aisle is just nothing but moronic, juvenile stupidity.

I do NOT like Wal Mart, but where I live (and I suspect it's true of a LOT of people), there is NO OTHER PLACE to 'shop' without driving a very long distance. If I need basic groceries, I go to the WM. I'm not about to drive 55 miles round trip for ten dollars worth of perishables.

When I need to 'stock up' I will make the trip to Tulsa but how the hell does it make sense to burn $10 worth of gas to buy $10 worth of milk, bread and eggs.

Can we just drop this shit, please?

[Liberal In Texas]

1. Me too. I just stopped even reading them, let alone post something.

This cart thing is juvenile and beneath us.

[ROH]

3. Recommended (n/t)

[QC]

2. Please submit protest ideas here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5339989

We need to keep up with the times, you know, and I am doing my best.

[beam me up scottie]

4. BWAHAHAHA !!!

Those are great!
:applause:

[QC]

5. Please submit more.

It's easy now to be part of the revolutionary vanguard!

[stevedeshazer]

6. Me too. I think I'll start another thread about it.

:) Okay, just kidding.

[tularetom]

7. I agree I don't like 'em either

but I have better things to do with my time than spend an hour in wally world filling up a cart just to leave it in an aisle somewhere. Besides its just gonna be some poor schmuck WM employee getting stuck with putting all the shit back. Generally I only go there to get hunting and fishing licenses but I have other options for groceries etc.

[mestup]

8. Where did people shop before Sprawl-Mart came to town?

:shrug:

I'm honestly curious. I see many defensive posts dealing with location, I can't help but wonder where people were shopping before.

[KitchenWitch]

9. In small mom and pop type stores that are no longer in business.

[mestup]

11. That's what I wondered.

Some people are so adamant in defending Wal-Mart, you'd think it was a U.N. relief effort that finally air dropped supplies.

[KitchenWitch]

16. Some people become apologists for the things they feel guilty about.

[Broken_Hero]

44. nope, i'm not an apologist...

I for one am proud to shop at walmart...:) thank you very much!..:)

[KitchenWitch]

51. I said some people.

[Broken_Hero]

56. true true...:)

[KitchenWitch]

62. Cool

We are good then?

:hi:

[Broken_Hero]

65. wait, i'm not going to get

flamed? thanks...:) Nice talking with you...:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

68. Not from me

I can't make your shopping decisions for you. I personally hate Walmart, and have a plethora of options other than Walmart available within a 10 square mile area of my home.

We all choose what to be socially conscious about. Whether or not to club baby seals, shop at Walmart, eat meat, drive a Hummer...you get the picture.

I am obviously not going to change your mind. So why argue?

:hi:

[T Town Jake]

24. NO ONE is "defending Wal-Mart"...

...they are sneering at the idiotic "protest" idea--if so silly a thing can be dignified with the word idea--to make the minimum wage working man/woman's (who is more worried about how they'll pay next weeks gas bill and if the Mac n' Cheese is on sale again this week so their kids can eat than some dippy upper middle class affectation gussied up as a "protest") life more hellish than it already is.

[LincolnMcGrath]

61. See post #44

[Broken_Hero]

63. yep, look at post 44...:)

[Deja Q]

12. not to support wallyworld, but...

wallyworld has opened locations in towns whose existing regional chains (hardly mommy and daddy stores :( ) lack the selection walmart has.

Even if they're small volume stores, walmart still offers more than the regional hick stores.

For once I can't really be harsh against wallyworld. I know people who live in such towns and for selection alone are quite grateful the stores are moving in.

A pity the other stores didn't bother to expand their sections... and a pity the customer base didn't whine to them, but everybody expects everything for nothing. We're all guilty in one form or another, as I'm starting to realize.

[KitchenWitch]

20. True enough

I remember Pamida stores in the small towns...Now they are all but extinct.

[QC]

22. But let's not romanticize those mom 'n pops too much.

They tended to be quite expensive. They also had limited selections, as a rule. And they mostly paid minimum wage. The people who ran them were generally pillar-of-the-community types who conspired to keep anyone in town from paying more.

I speak as someone who used to shop in them because I lived in a small town out in the sticks and didn't have a car. It wasn't all it's now cracked up to be.

Does that mean that I like Wal-Mart? Not on your life. But shopping at places that had only one brand of everything and charged 25-50% more for it wasn't so hot either.

[Carni]

82. You're right and the good mom and pop's aren't run out of biz by walmart

To clarify I can't stand Walmart and won't shop there.

In my area I am lucky to have plenty of other options and I go out of my way to shop at small markets for what I can't buy at Costco--but in all honesty the good small markets with fair prices and fresh produce and goods are still packed.

The place I buy my produce from charges like a third of what walmart does and the produce I am buying is superior.

In many cases the small operations got arrogant and paved the way for walmart to take over--JMO

[karlrschneider]

18. I obviously can't speak for everyone but the town near me had a

"Homeland"...an offshoot of "Safeway" that was a good store. WalMart built their "Supercenter" and ran them out of business. It is now the only grocery store within 30 miles. :grr:

[hippywife]

92. I'm familiar with where you live Karl and

I can testify that there isn't squat out there in the way of shopping. Even tho I don't grace the aisles of WalMart myself, I surely can't blame you for needing to.

[Aimah]

35. Walmart usually runs them out of business.

Walmart gets bulk discounts while the mom and pop stores do not. Extremely low prices and more variety get people into Walmart. Mom and pops can't cope.

[Miss Chybil]

87. To play devil'e advocate...

If mom and pops have an inferior selection and higher prices why should we shop there? Hmmmm?

I hate WalMart and very rarely shop there. I do shop independent stores as much as possible, but they better have something special to offer. I'm not paying $5.00 for a bucket I can get for $3.00 at Target, or anyplace else, just to be nice. Give me a good product and good service and I'll gladly pay a fair price for it - but, I'm not rich, nor am I stupid. I have other things to do with my money than give it to somebody for nothing - just because they're not WalMart. That's not a good enough reason for me.

If Mom and Pop found themselves in a position to grow and sold stock in their company in order to buy higher volumes of product they would - given a good economy, good business sense and good luck - grow into a larger corporation. Then they wouldn't be Mom and Pop anymore, they'd be Mom, Pop and Co.. Someday, they might open another store on the other side of town, and eventually, one in another county, another state, another country and so on.... They would turn into a monster and they would be beholding to no one but their shareholders. You think they'd be crying about that, or do you think they'd be enjoying themselves on their new yacht someplace?

Anyway, I shop at CostCo because they have great product at great prices AND they treat their employees good. Maybe, I should buy my dog food at triple the price from Joe Blow's Dog Food Store down the street, just to be nice? Not.

[Broken_Hero]

39. In my hometown...

groceries=Tatusda's IGA, Carrs Safeway, and Alaskan and Proud....

for electronics-Videl Video and Bernies, and Computers and more and Physical Graffiti

for clothes-Bon Marche, and Tongass Trading, and Ben Franklin...

thats where we could shop before walmart, but each, and every damn one of them price gouged our town to death...their was no monopoly on anything, everything cost an arm and a leg, when walmart came to town, it leveled the playing field...aka Bernies selling VCRS for 300 bucks in 2000, all groceries stores charging 5 bucks a lb for hamburger meat, the cheapest jeans where 60 bucks...the list goes on....btw, our walmart inst' a supercenter, so the grocery items at the other groceries stores remain the same mostly, caue walmart carrys milk/soda/candy/nuts and minor food stocks, which are substantially cheaper than any grocery store in town. My hometown is on an island...

BTW the only one that went out of business was Bernies and Physical graffiti...and BTW the only people that voted against walmart were the owners of the local businesses in town...the minute walmart opened, the city spread its city limit past walmart, so they could get their tax dollars....

[Blue_In_AK]

40. Southeast?

[Broken_Hero]

41. yes, from Ketchikan...:)

in SW missouri now....anyone who has to live on any of those remote, islands anywehre in alaska, not just se, but anywhere...pays out the ASS for everything...walmart leveled the playing field for Ketchikan...

[Blue_In_AK]

45. I'm sure it did.

KTUU did a news piece last week about the cost of things out in Bethel. It was unbelievable ... $6 a gallon for gas, and $30 for a small bag of canned goods. Basic utilities cost over twice what they do here. And then, of course, there's the matter of no jobs. People down in the Lower 48 have no idea how difficult it is for Alaska's villagers and small town residents. We have it good here in Anchorage.

[Broken_Hero]

49. Yeah, true, true...

And some people have told me, "why didn't they order goods through catalongs" and my nomral response is this "whenever you see commericials and what not, or order forms, you usually see on the very bottom, the places they won't ship to, usually its Alaska/Hawaii, and its still like that to this day, damn, my mom orders stuff, using my address here in MO, and then i mail it to her through the post office.

Most people, who don't live out in the sticks, or rural communtiesand they don't realize what grips, the communties are under, and usually walmart comes in levels the playing field and offer more jobs. The main jobs here in my county(in MO) are chicken plants and walmart...so if, by what a lot of posters here want, walmart gone...would you all still want the county here to gut chickens? I have gutted fish for cold storages, and i can't imagine the stench of doing the same thing to chickens...I would rather push carts at walmart than gut chickens, and walmart here pays more than Tyson and Simmons...

Its not just walmart, either...everyone tries to paint walmart evil and all these mom and pops with such goody too shoed ideals, and the unions also...you know what, i have been in two unions, and they didn't do anything, they took my money/dues, and didn't lift a finger when i got fired from Carrs Safeway, when i called in sick for work...my dad was in the IBEW and he didn't like those idiots either...no company is pure, so i don't understand why all the broad brushing....

[LincolnMcGrath]

52. Unions are not a 'Get out of Jail Free Card'

After reading this post, your other ones up above have become clearer to me.

[Broken_Hero]

55. I dont really know what you mean...

about Unions are not a get out of jail free card...just in my experience and my fathers with ibew, i'm not all into the mantra of "unions or die" or whatever slogans they use nowadays, albeit I know there are unions out there, that are doing their jobs and what nots...:)(hopefully)...:)

[druidity33]

85. i agree and i don't agree...

Yeah, i've traveled a bit in this country and there are times when it's a godsend to find a wal-mart, because you haven't passed a soul in 50 or so miles. And i do believe Wal-Mart could be good for this country... BUT i don't agree with the broad assessment you've made on unions. Where do you think the 40 hour work week came from? the weekend? holiday pay? family leave? overtime? The most important thing about Unions (IMO) is that you have a voice... sometimes you need to be forceful in using it, but there are always grievance procedures. As a union member, know your rights! Read your bylaws! Be a steward! Get involved! If you don't like your union leadership, vote it out! Run for a position yourself! Remember they are supposed to work for you. Unions can build community and solidarity... though more often than not the public perception is 14 guys standing on the side of the road rerouting traffic and leaning on shovels... where did we get that idea?

Think how the workers would feel if they were guaranteed to get paid for the overtime they work? If they were guaranteed a raise every year? got holiday pay? etc. I think they'd take pride in their job, maybe even be proud of their employer...instead of being scared to speak up about the working conditions.

work towards a living wage

[Broken_Hero]

94. I don't think I made a broad assessment of Unions...

I was with two of them, and they didn't do a damn thing for me. I paid dues, and i got fired from Carr's Safe way for calling in sick. I did go to meetings, I knew our shop steward, he worked in the meat department, and then went over to produce...i complained to him non stop about what happened, all i got was "i'm looking in to it, i will deal with it, something good will happen, i promise"...days turned into weeks, weeks into months, and i just gave up, nothing was being done....two unions, one that didn't do anything for me at Carr's, the other one, was with EC Philip's and Son Cold Storage, i only worked their for five months or so, got paid 7.00 bucks to gut fish, yeah, great livable union wage there...but again, I do see/know your point. I don't' see how my feelings on two unions, transcends into a broad brushing of "all" of them...

The unions were needed in the past to level the playing field in many areas of the workforce, the unions got the 40 hr work week, vacation, and all the things you mentioned, and now most states have their own labor laws determining what is "right" and what is "wrong" when dealing with labor issues, or am i wrong? So, to me the unions are fighting for things, that are all ready there, in law...which, to give them full credit, yes, they got what was needed done...but again, I'm' not up to full speed on unions either, i dealt with two, and heard countless griping from my dad about the IBEW when i was growing up...

On the other hand, i have seen how the firing process is done at Walmart..and i think, its a damn fair one. My wife was a team supervisor at the accounting annex in bentonville, and she had three women fired...the whole process took 6 months per firing...the open door policies and warnings they get i think are fair...damn, she had women who would come to work drunk, didn't do their job, hide work or through their work away, and it took 6 months to fire them. They would give them countless chances to prove themselves, to stay working at Walmart...and i got fired, at a union job, for calling in sick, so you can see my apprehension of accepting that "unions are great"...

Another thought, do you think unions hate walmart, cause they are NON union just because the "unions" care about WM's workers? Or do you think, the unions are upset about all the money/dues that they would be getting if WM was unionized...just a thought, i have a feeling its a bit of both...

[LincolnMcGrath]

50. Which taxes are they getting?

[Broken_Hero]

53. Sales tax....

for the city of ketchikan....:)

[LincolnMcGrath]

54. How much did it cost the city.

How many year Prop tax abatement did they get? Free sewer? Maybe a T I F zoning?

If all they get is sales tax, and the prices are cheaper, YOU GET LESS REVENUE.

[Broken_Hero]

58. I'm not sure what you mean

and i don't know for certain, to say...but, if they didn't make the city limit longer, than they wouldn't be getting "any" sales tax at all...

[LincolnMcGrath]

66. It is quite simple. Walmart feeds at the trough of local citizens.

You lose more than you gain.

There is allot of info out there on 'the internets' about the real cost of walmart.

[Broken_Hero]

67. i lose more than i gain?

so..if i pay 50 bucks for a dvd player at walmart, and go to videl video and pay 120 bucks for a dvd player...i lose, cause i bought it at walmart?....

[LincolnMcGrath]

69. Try to think of the big picture.

Would you cross a picket line to earn a extra two bucks a hour? If you did you would be hurting yourself in the long run, and the earning potential of your offspring.

When walmart has closen all the local businesses, their prices will go upward. They can afford to take a loss now.

[Broken_Hero]

72. The local businesses have

lasted for 5 yrs, this far, with the exception of two (that i know of)...my hometown is a "seasonal" job town...summer months being the busiest....after mid sept a lot of shops close, tourism shops close, canneries close, cold storages close...fisherman are done etc etc...the winter months are a pain for work, unless you got a perm job somewhere, doc/police/utilties etc...and walmart opened up another place for people to work...its funny though, cause the biggest threat to walmart(according to my wife at least) is the dollar stores...dollar general/money tree etc....they are offering the same product(albiet generic also) for a cheaper price...

btw my wife works for walmarts home offices, she works for their Diversity Relations Department, she started in the Financial Divsion(accounting)...she earns "more" than a liveable wage...especially compared to my measley substitute teaching wages...:)

[LincolnMcGrath]

73. Most local supermarkets around here lasted a decade.

You never answered the picket line question. Although I did notice in another thread, you said the union treated you poorly.

[Broken_Hero]

74. Another thought on the picket line...

if i went form picket line A, which paid me 7 bucks, and picket line B offered me 8 bucks to walk over and do the exact same job/same hours, would i work for them....and i say yes, and as i walk over the picket line, why won't picket line A offer me more, or throw another benefit my way...if picket line A, really wanted me, they would throw something my way...

I couln't afford health insurance through Carrs Safeway, i only made 7.24 an hour yeah, a very livable wage for a no where town, on an island:sarcasm: When i worked for peacehealth(our general hospital) i could have gotten on their health insurance also, but that cost to much also...i was getting 8.50 for a cafeteria job,(i wasnt in a union here) but if i got health coverage, the minimum, my hourly wage of 8.50 after doing the math, i would be making 5.50 an hour, after they took out the $ for health coverage...and 5.50 isn't enough to survive either...so, its a hard battle to fight...gotta choose what you think is right at the time...but again, hospital was not union, offered me 8.50 dollars to scrub dishes and push carts...Carrs Safeway, just over 7 bucks, and i was a donut fryer, and worked the deli...at Carrs i busted hump, got paid less...at Hosptial, i didn't do much of anything, and i got a dollor more than a unionized Carrs....

I don't think Walmart is innocent or pure...and i just dont' always shop there, i shop at other local stores, but its not local to me...its local to newton county, not my current county...i shop dollar stores, and almost all my cds come from bmg/columbia house/occasinally target....my wife works for their home offices, so i know they aren't pure in the least bit...but again, i have seen some good come from Walmart....

[LincolnMcGrath]

75. Unions do not set wages. They try bargain for better ones.

"why won't picket line A offer me more, or throw another benefit my way...if picket line A, really wanted me, they would throw something my way..."

Let me see if I understand this. You are out on strike at company A(holding out for a better deal) and you would walk down the street and cross a picket line at company B (Who also happen to be holding out for a better deal)?

"if i went form picket line A, which paid me 7 bucks, and picket line B offered me 8 bucks to walk over and do the exact same job/same hours, would i work for them....and i say yes, and as i walk over the picket line"

[Broken_Hero]

77. I am assuming...

and i was assuming, you were making a point of working at say walmart, vs say a union job....union job says, hey man, we can only pay you 7 bucks for a janitor job....i do some research, walmart says they will pay me 8 dollars for the same job...i will join walmart....:) Maybe i didn't get what the picket line thing was, i was assuming...picket line A(unions, mom and pop stores)...B. Being Walmart or any other company who can offer me something better.....on the other hand, if the union janitor job offered my 8 bucks, and walmart offered me 7, i would go work for the union janitor job...:)

[bettyellen]

86. exactly what china been trying to do with their imports too-

keep their prices artificially low, knock out the competetion (India mostly) until they have a lock on the market. there are laws against it, but they are not so well enforced.

[SoCalDem]

42. Actually, we had supermarkets.

Our town had the following stores, until a few years ago:

2 Food 4 Less
Safeway
Vons
2 Stater Bros
2 Ralphs
3 Lucky (now Albertsons)
Hughes
and a few specialty supermarkets Cardenas & one other

Since that time , the size of the town has more than doubled, and yet we have lost:

Safeway
Vons
Hughes


These were all UNION supermarkets..and all were always BUSY..


We have lost union jobs, and had the union itself weakened due to all the unemployed/underemployed people who now HAVE to work for less, or move somewhere else.

The same thing has happened to the banking situation..merger after merger and closure after closure has left us with Wells fargo, Bank of America & WAMU, and that's about it.. shitty service..shitty locations..

[LincolnMcGrath]

71. The same has happened around here.

I can remember

8 closed Eagles
6 closed IGAs
7 closed Krogers
Many more SuperValus

All Union: Decent Wages, Pensions, Health-care

Gone are the good jobs, gone is the revenue from taxed wages and the luxury items they bought, vacations, motor homes, etc.

[Art_from_Ark]

81. Let me tell you about the time that Wal-Mart itself was a one-store

mom-and-pop operation

Store No. 1, Rogers, Arkansas opened in 1962, just off the corner of 8th and Walnut, between the Ness Dairy House drive-in and the IGA supermarket. I don't know why Sam Walton opened it in Rogers, although I'm guessing it had something to do with his running a Ben Franklin franchise in Bentonville and he couldn't start a competing shop in the same town at the same time.

Anyway, when there was just one Wal-Mart, in Wal-Mart's home town there were two 5-and-dime stores downtown (5 blocks down the street from Wal-Mart)-- Sterling's and Russell's. Russell's was the greatest place to get Halloween stuff, and Sterling's had a great chocolate section, including imported Finnish fruit-filled cholocate bars for a dime each! There were three auto parts stores (Western Auto, Hill's Auto Supply, and a third one whose name I can't remember) within a couple of blocks of each other. In addition to the IGA, there were two supermarkets downtown-- Phillips and Sons, and Warehouse Market (Warehouse had the greatest stuff, including Sunshine Yum-Yums and off-the-wall trading cards). For shoes, you could go to Tom and Jerry's or Family Shoes (just across the street from each other), and you could go a few doors down to Stroud's or Mode O'Day or Hunt's for clothes. For office and school supplies, you could go to Shoffner's, and for a bite to eat go to the soda fountain at Rogers Pharmacy or Lewis Drug, or over to Wesner's Grill a block in the other direction. In addition to Rogers Pharmacy and Lewis Drug, you could also get your prescription filled at the Rexall Pharmacy, across the street from Rogers Pharmacy. For hardware, there was Rogers Hardware, or Beaulieu Hardware a couple of blocks away. There were also two or three jewelry shops, all within a couple of blocks of each other. On the corner across from Sterlings there was an independent gas station, and two blocks down in one direction you could gas up at the DX; a couple of blocks in another direction, you could fill up at Texaco.

[BiggJawn]

10. Lucky. You have to drive only 55 miles.

For me, it's a 140-mile round trip to my nearest holy-of-holies-Latte-Liberal-Blue-State-Seal-of-Approval COSTCO.

FWIW, I do most my shopping at Meijers.

But I am so (SOB!) sorry! There's SOME things I like that (sob!) i can ONLY get at the EEEVUL Empire! (Sob!) I KNOW that makes me a BAD Liberal! Only 2 notches higher on the food chain than Rim Job over to FR, but (SOB!) I have SINNED against my fellow Liberals! I'm not WORTHY to lick the Starbucks stains out of the carpeting of your Volvos and Lexi....(SOB!!!)

I'm over the Wally-World bullshit too. That inane "Load em and Leave 'em" idea cut it for me.

And if some of you people who consider a package of cheese a social statement don't like it, why don't you go tell Howard and get me drummed out of the party or something?

[beam me up scottie]

19. You slay me!

"I'm not WORTHY to lick the Starbucks stains out of the carpeting of your Volvos and Lexi"

:rofl:

[BlueJazz]

23. I'm sorry..but to atone for your Sins...You'll have to shit on the floor.

[QC]

25. Yes, shitting on the floor forces management to hire more shit-cleaner-

uppers and thus will destroy our corporate overlords!

[BiggJawn]

36. Too Late!

it's on the ceiling...

[tamtam]

13. This is so true for people in Oklahoma

My husband is from Oklahoma and every time we go home to visit I shake my head. There is a Wal-Mart on every corner in that little state and not much else. They also have the colossal Wal-Marts driving out all the grocery stores.

[Aimah]

37. In my city all of the Walmarts are on the outskirts of town.

The closest Walmart is maybe 15 miles from me. I don't see a lot of Walmarts in Inner city areas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. Anyone from the east coast who is slamming WalMart

needs to imagine every single one of those Dunkin Donuts whre they live as a WalMart. And then ask themselves where they would shop if they didn't want to shop at WalMart.

I honestly believe a lot of these WalMart haters don't live in the midwest where WalMart is really the ONLY choice for shopping in many towns.

[leftofthedial]

14. I thought they locked the Wal Mart crap post.

[depakid]

15. Not gonna happen

While I sympathize with your situation- and considering where you live, there's not much choice- but your situation in Oklahoma is different than people's sitations in other communities AND for the nation at large.

People are going to go after Wallmart with everything they can think of- and that's a good thing. If it makes you feel bad about supporting them- welp, I imagine a lot of people felt the same way during the Bus Boycotts in Montgomery during the Civil Rights movement- to kind of stretch an example.

Fact is that unless and until public awareness is raised about just how destructive and abusive this corporation is, it'll continue to move onto communities without enough opposition to stop it.

We've manged to stop Wallmart at 3 different locations here- but they keep coming. And so MUST we.

[T Town Jake]

27. So, in your eyes, a bunch of upper-middle class...

..."protestors" who fill up carts and then leave them for some minimum wage worker to re shelve are the moral equivalent of Rosa Parks...

Truly staggering the self-indulgent notions some folks have of their own righteousness. Unbelievable.

[depakid]

31. Actually the indignation is

unbelieveable.

I said the comparison was stretched- but the analogy to people who feel inconvienced or are otherwise annoyed by protest efforts (pick your own example) still holds.

A significant part of every dime people spend at that "store" contributes to far right causes, sucks money out of local communities, creates unsustainable living conditions down the line (as in- your children are going to pay for the lack of foresight) and contributes to labor abuses, discrimination and a record (and growing) trade deficit.

Now, it's OBVIOUS that people have some cognitive dissonance here- and it's equally obvious through the use of language (i.e. "wallyworld) that some of the behavioral techniques in their marketing have worked.

Personally, I'm not about to criticize those who are making an effort to fight these things- and I also think it's pretty self-centered for others to jump on their case, just because they're stuck living somewhere that Wallmart already has a steel grip on.

[Cleita]

17. Amen Karl.

I think talking about it is okay, but accusing people of being scum for shopping there or doing something that is destructive to everyone but the people you really should be targeting is stupid.

[linazelle]

48. Ditto. I have been wanting to say the same thing for two days.

This is absolutely ridiculous. The next thing you know, hop head Limpballs and company will be on the air sending the freepers here because "DU hates Walmart."

I really don't care if "they" believe that, but I do care that I not be included, or most of DU, in what I believe is really only a prank by disruptors.

[LiberalPersona]

21. Yes please

it really does need to be dropped. It never should've come up with the first place because it gives the enemy ammo to use against us.

They could smear us with "hey look, liberals are against the workers!" bs.

[lwbaby]

26. Local shops?

Are there any where you live?

Veggie stands, farmers markets, etc?

If there are none, why are they gone?

I won't shop at WalMart which is why I won't do the cart thingy. But WalMart exists because they fill a need. When you are poor and need clothes or shampoo or laundry detergent the best price is at WalMart, period. And when you are poor you have to shop for price for your own survival.

[alittlelark]

28. It is sad that you have 'no where else' to shop.

I still do..

I have not walked in their doors for almost 4 years.


It feels GOOD!!


I am glad that I am able to disallow them my trades.

I hope YOU AND OTHERS will have that opportunity soon.

Unfortunately the 'WAL-GOD' WILL DESTROY YOUR COMMUNITY - BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO ACCEPT THE BORG RATHER THAN FIGHT IT WITH YOUR $$$ AND SOULS.

[QC]

32. Are you in your cups right now?

Just curious.

Also curious about this: how do you recommend that someone living in, say, Yalobusha County, Mississippi, fight the borg? We aren't all in the Bay Area, you know.

[ElkHunter]

29. I'd sooner vote for Bush...

...than shop at WalMart - and I'd rather have my teeth yanked with pliers than vote for Dubya.

You can make fun all you want about Starbucks latte drinking liberals driving Volvos, but let me ask you something: Would you have shopped at Woolworth's during the Civil Rights boycott of the 1960's? Seriously. Would you have shopped at an establishment that refused to serve black Americans or would you instead have sided with Dr. King even if it was inconvenient to do so?

Movements aren't built, and stuggles aren't won, because they are convenient or easy. If we are going to make change, then we're going to have to stand firm and pay whatever price we must in order to gain victory.

WalMart just happens to stand as a symbol for all that we are fighting against - it is the perfect portrait of George Bush's vision of America. Compromise if you must, but don't call into question the motives of those who decide otherwise.

Rant over.

[Ferret Annica]

38. I'm with you...

...Walmart needs to be boycotted by everyone. I'm betting that if bus boycotters in Montgomery could carpool and come up with creative solutions, some way to not have grocery needs be satisfied by WalMart can be found.

It's a question of how much you love your freedom and how strong are your principles. I'd starve as a free man of good conscious before I'd give that corporation a dime.

Period

The thread parent needs to ask whether there is an sacrifice of comfort or risk they would take to stand up for their beliefs. Because if you can't do that for that which is most dear, you don't believe you are free or empowered whether you admit it or not.

[LincolnMcGrath]

47. You both make valid points

I have noticed in many threads that those supporting or even discussing the the cart plan were attacked, labeled as latte drinking volvo driving holier than thou, etc. Some folks were asked if they had a REAL job! And those were just the nice things. :)


For almost 20 years I have worked to promote unionism and improve workplace safety, and for 12 of those years I would have loved to share the same work environment as someone working in a climate controlled retail setting, and for those asking, yes I have worked retail. I have given time and money to JwJ and many organizations to keep china mart out of places Chicago and have been walmart free myself for 5 years.


There might be things at china mart that I like, but there is nothing that I need.

[Ferret Annica]

93. I have spent weeks in trees

in danger of being cut down. I have felt the boredom from the USFS and BLM trying to ignore us, then the spotlights and music blasted up at us during closures and heard them laughing at us, and fought with them as their lackeys weakened their position with the sort of fighting with non-violent civil disobedient people that reveals their weaknesses in a way that give us the openings to win.

WalMart is vulnerable to being heal accountable.

But you need the courage to try. You need the audacity to do it. You need to know you will experience boredom, fear, exhilaration and many other emotions. It will have a price and cost you.

Most importantly you need to have a fire in your belly to do the act, to expose the greed, to expose the lies. You need to have the sort of competitive spirit that has faith in your sense of the right, and dedication to justice and truth.

If you want to end the problem, look it in the eye and jump on it with all fours with a good plan and the tenacity and resolute spirit to see the process through.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win" - Mahatma Ghandi

[Carni]

84. I agree with boycotting them BUT some of the posters here express

The fact that they don't have a choice (without driving 50 miles)

I am extremely lucky -- I have a wealth of stores to shop at and many small ethnic markets (talk about bargains)but somebodyu living in some rural place somewhere doesn't.

It's like what's worse? Lining the oil companies pockets by driving all over hell, or Walmart's pockets? It's kind of a catch 22.

I haven't set foot in a walmart in five years and I cannot stand them so I say by all means boycott them if you can--but I am not going to condemn a person who truly has no choice!

Aside from that I think the cart thing is asinine.

[kster]

30. Agreed

right now the only thing we should be fighting is the "election theft machines" some may want to direct you attention to Walmart but the number one thing, I believe should be securing our Democracy!

[Tinksrival]

33. Me too!

This is America damnit! It's a free country.
Don't shop there if you don't want to.....
Fight against it being in your hood if you want to....
Try and organize a union if you want too....

But sometimes in a free country you gotta take the bad with the good.

Walmart is free to be a crappy store in a free country.

These type of actions seem to contradict our values and punish other Americans that chose to work or shop at a crappy store if they choose too.

This type of action sounds so silly (cart nonsense). It sounds just as silly as the fundies boycotting dolls forcripes sake!

[femrap]

34. no.

I don't think you realize that Walmart is just as much responsible for the state of this country as george....it's called fascism and Walmart is the biggest company in the WORLD.

Gee...if you're not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem.

I am disappointed at the lack of social activism and social responsibilty of some DUers. Some sound like pugs! Or maybe it is true....dems aren't willing to fight...just whine.

Maybe it's just youth and a lack of awareness of the economic power that controls our government....

Walmart has to be stopped....as well as China.

[BBradley]

43. I stopped reading, and caring when you said you shopped at Wal Mart

Any excuses you may have made for doing so fell on deaf ears. If you still want to shop at Wal Mart then F'ing do it, and ignore the anti-wal mart posts... Oh yeah, this is just flame bait anyway...

[JackieO]

46. FUCK THAT

There's a thread ignore function if you're so goddamn upset about it.

[akarnitz]

57. I sympathize

I'm not gonna hold it against you if you don't have a choice. Ya gotta get groceries somewhere.

I'd like to suggest that you don't make luxury purchases at Wal-Mart,though. If you've got to buy a TV or cd's/dvd's please drive the extra miles. Or, better yet, buy online. You might have to wait a few days for UPS to get to ya, but instant gratification's a bit overrated.

BTW, my uncle used to own one of two grocery stores in Big Rapids, MI.
Both Meijers(headquartered locally in W. MI, it's a lot better to employees and the price difference between Meijers and Wal-Mart is minimal)and Wal-Mart decided to move in. Uncle Denny had to close up. He sold his stock at a loss and is currently trying to unload the real-estate. Big Rapids lost some better paying jobs. They also lost an owner who's door they could go knock on at any time.

What makes me sickest about Denny's story is that he's still a Republican. But there's hope for him yet.

[LaPera]

59. And it MUST be fucking continued...AND not a fucking chance...

is it going away...as the republicans love and do so sucessfully...WE need to keep pounding away, relaxing is hardly the answer...go work at Wal-Mart, and your tune would then, surely change, and then say... too much is being written, not a fucking chance...This is the corporate wet dream which they are now All strive for and want to achieve (for their stockholders)...It can NEVER be stated too frequently...Try and live that life, and then see if too much has been written... Wal-Mart is a disgrace to every working person hoping to achieve a decent, fair and real living...I and many are willing to pay more, for their slave wage Chinese products, and just aqs important, for workers to be treated, fairly...This is just the beginning...and you are oh, so tired of hear about it?

Well, shame on you!

Did I even forget to mention about how they devastate old town business' and underselling with their conglomerate wealth, causing and perpetuating the exploitation?

Get fucking real, Hugo!!!!

Go see a Wal-Mart screening of the facts tomorrow, and its free!!!

[Endangered Specie]

60. Join the club, I take flak because I have Dell computers.

you may flame at will.

[Duncan Grant]

64. Use the "hide thread" feature and stop whining.

Those of us who do have choices other than Wal-Mart understand the position of people who may not.

You don't have to personalize it, do you? I sure don't.

[donheld]

70. "I am SICK of all these idiotic Wal Mart crap posts." - so you

start another one. How nice. :banghead:

[upi402]

96. Yeah, so the O/P started another one.

That occured to me too.
Sometimes folks get it, sometimes they don't get quite all of it.

[Peter Frank]

76. Can we just drop this shit, please? NO!

Walmart is now the model for how business is done worldwide. I suggest you work there for a week before you re-post.

[Broken_Hero]

78. my wife has worked there

for over six years and she loves it...her previous jobs, intern for senator casselbaum of ks, tyson chicken gutting chickens, harrahs up in horton kansas, haskell resource offices in kansas, and a lot of low minial jobs...and walmart has treated her the best....

[Peter Frank]

79. What if she got hurt on the job?...

...just asking. What do you think???

[Broken_Hero]

80. if she got hurt at the job...

she would get hurt at the job...:) we have no insurance through walmart, because it costs to much...meaning, the out of paycheck cost would effect our cost of living aka other bills. She can get it, if she wants it, or for both of us...but again, i have had union jobs, and non union jobs..as far as my wife goes, i believe she has worked non union(not sure about harrahs though)....and each one of them presented the same dilemma...pay $ for health insurance and suffer with other bills or rising gas, or other unknowns...or surf the ocean with the other non insured.....:) but again, we have some health coverage because of our CDIB cards, my wife is keetowah band cherokee and im' haida from alaska...but we can only use IHS facilities...(Indian Health Services)...the closet one is Jay, in oklahoma, and then Claremore, right outside Tulsa....
Jay is an hour away from us, in missouri, abut an hour and a half from Bentonville, and Claremore is about two hours from MO and about two and a half if not more, from Bentonville...

Walmart also has worker assit programs...one of my wife's team members got her ass beat, and kicked out of her house last thanksgiving day, and her husband booted out their 5 children, to be with their mother...Walmart's worker assit program, got them food, clothes, a place to stay, and walmart shopping cards....

I would love to have better health coverage, damn, IHS is a sick joke, and when i win the lottery (some day I hope) I will proclaim that the first thing i will use my money on is decent health coverage...:)

[watercolors]

83. don't read em, or shop em!

I will drive a distance to shop elsewhere, I support a small business that carries fresh veg & fruit, and a local meat market.

[LandOLincoln]

89. It's nice that you have a car, and can afford the gas...

Just sayin'

[snappyturtle]

88. I can't tell you how....

much I hate Wal-Mart. I'm new here so I haven't read a lot about WM on DU. BUT----I have had a bad experience with them and think that people who have ABSOLUTELY no where else to shop, maybe....but I find that difficult to believe.

I live in the middle of a National Forest (Chippewau) and have to drive many miles to the closest WM....the last time I did this was four years ago at Christmas-time....not expressly to go to wm but we were in Grand Rapids, MN for a dental appointment. Afterwards, my son & I went to wm to pick up a few things while we were there. We were ATTACKED outside at the door while loading our car. It was snowing very hard---and it was a very wet snow. My son drove up close to the door, he waited in line until it was our "turn" to load, so his mother wouldn't get soaked. Some screwball yelled and screamed and hit my son because he thought we took too long to load four bags into the car!!!! Good God the next thing I knew the police were there and no WM employee not even the kid bringing in carts would speak to the police nor would WM turn over their security tapes!!!!!!!! So my six foot one, 215 pound son who restrained himself from clobbering the wimp who attacked him, left WM that day punched in the face and with a ripped up jacket. Gee--thanks wm. I guess Grand Rapids, MN needs the tax revenue so badly that their police force doesn't even uphold the law when it comes to their blessed wm. Now I shop at my local grocery store where the quality, especially produce and meat, is better anyway....and actually, except for wm "loss leaders", local prices aren't bad enough to subject myself to the greed of the walmart family.

Wait until peak oil hits big time...walmarts will not be so cheap when their transportation costs soar and then we're going to wish the Mom and Pops were back. WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, WMARTS HAVE ATTACKED US ALL, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. amen. (This is my first and last post on the subject.)

[lovelaureng]

91. I agree with you. n/t

[SW FL Dem]

95. I agree and I will never set foot in a WalMart again

I am lucky, I have many alternatives. I hate the company but I understand that many people don't have the choices I have. I'll do my part by not shopping there, but I won't harrass those people who have the misfortune of working there.

[upi402]

97. There's no other place to shop because...

WalMart needs to be brought to the awareness of people worried about chips and Wheel of Fortune.