The nearly flawless Kerry...

[ProSense]

I couldn't help it! Just a reminder:

Kerry has a stellar record among Democrats. And if not for a corrupt election, should be in the WH.

Even with the stolen votes, Kerry's percentage among voters was only a point behind Clinton's and 1/10 of a point behind Gore's:

William Jefferson Clinton 47,400,125 49.2%
Al Gore 51,003,926 48.4%
John F. Kerry 59,028,111 48.3%

We need to support our Democratic leaders and work to oust the band of thieves in the WH and the Republican Party.


Find me a person who out votes Kerry on progressive issues (not one---all), who works as hard as he does to promote these issues and who is capable of getting the votes of more than 59 million Americans, and I'd love to see him or her as Kerry's running mate in 2008.

[stepnw1f]

1. Very Good Post

I would like to see more on Bills He has helped pass in the Senate over the years that would make some here at DU appreciate the man more. We know very little about the man's Senate record, even after his run for presidencey. People here must know more about this man's career.

[MH1]

22. A few items

Health Care

(source: kerry.senate.gov)

* 1996: Wrote the Healthy Children, Family Assistance Health Insurance Program, which was the precursor to the successful State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP) that became law in 1997. S-CHIP provides funding to cover 5 million children.

* Co-sponsored an amendment for improved post-natal care, that required health care plans to provide coverage for a minimum hospital stay for a mother and child following the birth of the child.

* Wrote the Nurse Reinvestment Act to help relieve a nationwide, crisis-level shortage of registered nurses by encouraging more young people to choose a career in nursing. Today, enrollment rates at undergraduate nursing programs are up by 17 percent.

* Improved Coverage and Care for America's Veterans. John Kerry has been a tireless champion of mandatory funding for veterans' health care. He fought vigorously for full funding of Veterans Administration (VA) health care and opposed the Bush administration's exclusion of Priority 8 veterans and its elimination of VA outreach efforts. He sought improved prescription drug benefits and authored legislation in 2003 to let veterans fill prescriptions written by non-VA doctors through the VA pharmacy.


HIV/AIDS

John Kerry was among the earliest supporters of the Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency (CARE) Act, which today is the largest discretionary federal investment in treatment and support services for individuals and families living with HIV or AIDS. Today, 533,000 Americans with HIV/AIDS receive better treatment through this program. - Kerry Senate website

John Kerry was one of the original co-chairs of the Center for Strategic and International Studies Task Force on Strengthening U.S. Leadership on HIV/AIDS, and "continues as an honorary chairman of the task force."

2000: He "cosponsored legislation to facilitate the creation of a “trust fund” by the World Bank to raise money from governments, the private sector, and nongovernmental organizations as part of the global effort to prevent the spread of AIDS." - foreignpolicy.com

2000: He authored major elements of the Global AIDS and Tuberculosis Relief Act of 2000, legislation which at the time provided the most money ever for fighting AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis around the world. - Kerry Senate website

2002: He sponsored the bipartisan U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria Act of 2002, comprehensive legislation that was unanimously approved by the Senate and became the foundation of the global AIDS legislation that was passed by congress and signed by President Bush. - Kerry Senate website


Small Business

(source - Kerry Senate website)

* Currently Ranking Member (previously chairman) of the Senate Small Business Committee.

* Promoted policies to increase access to capital, open international markets, foster innovative technology companies, reduce red tape and increase federal contracting opportunities.

* Ceated and improved the MicroLoan program

* Expanded the nationwide Women's Business Centers (WBC), and loan programs that help the small businesses of reservists stay afloat while they are on active duty.


Families and Workers

(source: kerry.senate.gov)

* 1997: Helped Increase the Minimum Wage. John Kerry was instrumental in passing the most recent increase in the minimum wage - to $5.15 per hour in 1997.

* Fought for the Child Tax Credit. John Kerry led a successful fight for an amendment he introduced to make sure that all working families receive a child tax credit.

Environment

Kerry has consistently received high marks from the League of Conservation Voters, except in 2003 and 2004 where his scores were low due to votes missed while campaigning for the 2004 Presidential Election.

Satement from John Kerry's Senate website:

Fought to Protect America's Environment. John Kerry has been described by the League of Conservation Voters as an "environmental champion." He introduced legislation to improve standards for clean air and establish a fund to finance emissions reductions. He secured millions of dollars in funding to clean America's waterways, harbors, and drinking water, worked to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act, and introduced legislation in 1996 to ensure "protection in the quality of our water." He sponsored legislation that extended and strengthened laws protecting marine mammals from commercial fishing. He helped protect America's National Parks and National Forests from pollution, excessive logging, and overdevelopment while ensuring that endangered species are preserved for all Americans to experience. He has opposed opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling for over a decade, ensuring that future generations can experience this national treasure. He strongly advocated for U.S. participation in the Kyoto accords and other international environmental initiatives, and personally participated in many major world environmental summits, including conferences at Rio di Janiero, Kyoto and the Hague.

More at
http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/John_Kerry#SENATE_RECORD

This hasn't been updated in awhile, so what he is doing this year is not reflected. I know for example, he has pushed many amendments to help reservists and veterans; he has proposed his Kids Come First children's health care plan; and was an original co-sponsor of the Count Every Vote Act.

There's plenty there to support him for, I think.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. From looking over at Kerry's career

I think he was probably the best person to go up against Bush personally. There were lots of flaws in the campaign of course. I wish they talked a lot more about BCCI and the Bush/BinLaden family connection.

[oregonindy]

2. thats bad logic....he got that many votes not because he was

john kerry but because he was one half of a two party state.

sheeple for the most part either vote for a democrat or a republican

How did john kerry get the nomination for the democrats? I sure the hell didnt vote for him..(I chose kucinich) and you probably didnt either. The democratic handlers and the corporations chose him and installed him on the ticket for us to rally behind.

democracy my ass.

[fedupinBushcountry]

4. Your logic

is worse. :tinfoilhat: Democratic handlers or corporations did not choose who I voted for, I did.

[Telly Savalas]

108. You're a sheeple! (Whatever the fuck that is.)

[fedupinBushcountry]

109. Whatever !!!!

:boring:

[Telly Savalas]

111. Don't take it personally.

Most people here voted for Kerry and hence are sheeple. Corporations use the media to brainwash everyone into supporting the two branches of the one-party state. Well, everybody but me, because I'm special. Unlike the sheeple, the media's corporate Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

Sheeple. Sheeple. Sheeple.

God, I love that fucking word. Using it makes me feel better than everyone else.

Although I do find it curious that some rightwing pundits like to use the term "liberal elitist". Where do they come up with that shit?

[seabeyond]

5. i like kerry. my husband, a repug didnt like kerry, but listened

to kerry then respected kerry and became enthusiastic for kerry. i was able to use kerry against bush with policy and the person he is here in the panhandle of texas and i didnt have a single repug or fundie that was able to put bush over kerry. kerry did good ofr me in campaigning against bush in this area. i totally disagree with so much of what you say. a lot of people totally disagree with you

[MojoXN]

36. Oy, your husband is a Rightist?

That must make for some interesting dinnertime conversation...

MojoXN

[seabeyond]

38. your husband is a Rightist?"....... and then he married me, lol

he left the repug party for good after election 2004. watching what they did going into war. what his repug did to kerry, oh that disgusted him. but really what did it. he knows the election was stolen. a lifetime repug, left and wont be back.

[MojoXN]

42. Thank God...

You had me worried for a minute there... :)

MojoXN

[ProSense]

6. Actually...

In 2004, almost 4% of the votes went to candidates not from the Democratic or Republican parties. There are other choices.

And the Democratic and Republican candidates don't always get nearly 50% of the vote. In 1972 and 1992, respectively, McGovern and Bush Sr. got about 38% of the vote.

[sandnsea]

12. Clinton got 43% in 1992

Kerry did better against a sitting President than Clinton did.

[dsc]

13. Kerry wasn't outspent nearly 2 to 1

as Clinton was.

[sandnsea]

15. It didn't help Bush, did it?

If all that money was all that mattered, Bush should have done much much better.

Kerry/Edwards was the best ticket we've had in years and years. Face it, if the south didn't have their yankee-hating heads up their ass, Kerry would have easily won. Easily. They make it so hard for anybody outside of the south to win. Carter south, cowboy Reagan, Bush south, Clinton south, Bush south. The south has taken over the national government, oh joy, and we wonder why the country is totally fucked up.

Oh I know, now I'm southern bashing and the post will get deleted.

[dsc]

16. Actually Bush didn't outspend Kerry

they were about even. On the otherhand Clinton was outspent by both of his opponents. Remember Perot was a billionaire.

[sandnsea]

18. You know

When I say Clinton won because of Perot, I get told that Perot took votes equally. Now I get told that Perot hurt Clinton more because he spent money against him.

*sigh*

If we're talking about a candidate generating Democratic votes, Kerry beat Clinton against a sitting President. And 1992 was supposed to be the year all kinds of people came out to vote for the first time because Clinton offered such an exciting new vision for the country.

43%.

[karynnj]

83. There were other factors too

Almost all the Perrot ads were against Bush. Clinton benefited from this especially after Perrot dropped out because he said Bush was harassing his family then came back in. (Causing many to think he was a bit loony). There was a point where Clinton was number 3 of the 3. He bacame number 1 when Perrot pulled out and then remained so.

Bush I had much lower approval ratings

The media was far friendlier. If the Kerry campaign's wonderful October rallies - which were at least as enthusiastic, hopeful and good as any - were show on tv as much as Clinton's were, Kerry would have won what was a far tougher election.

[dsc]

103. Of course he spent money against Clinton

and against Bush. Every dollar spent by Perot was to get people to vote for Perot and by extention not for Clinton. I haven't a clue as to if he helped Clinton beat Bush but he certainly kept Clinton from getting some vote he otherwise would have gotten. But even if you don't count Perot's money Clinton was still out spent.

[Fabio]

60. this stat is way off base

clinton was outspent in hard money, but raised massive, massive some in uncapped, unregulated soft money - especially in 1996. Kerry had no access to that capital.

[dsc]

101. I am talking about 92 when Clinton ran against a sitting President

in 96 he did do a better job raising money.

[ultraist]

28. Oh, sure, it's all the South's fault.

[sandnsea]

30. It's how campaigns are run

It's alot easier to play the liberal label against a non-southerner. It's part of the schism that southerners and their anti-everything but the south attitude has helped create. No, it isn't all the south's fault, but you have to admit southern government philosophy has guided this country for a long damned time and we're not in very good condition because of it.

[ultraist]

34. The fact that Kerry really didn't even campaign in the South

also was a factor.

You're really overgeneralizing about the South. Here in NC, my governor and my state legislature are controlled by Democrats.

I will agree with you on this though, a Midwesterner or Southerner has a better chance in the South, than does a northern elitist. That also rings true for the midwest.

BTW, it's the Christian Coalition, who has deep roots in places like Colorado, who has taken over our government, not the South. http://www.theocracywatch.org/taking_over.htm

[sandnsea]

40. The Repulibcan strategy

How THEIR campaigns are run.

Dick Harpootlian, a former SC Party chair:

"Point is, I'm sick and tired of what-ifs. He lost because he couldn't connect with NASCAR-watching, gun-toting, churchgoing moderates and conservatives. We don't want a windsurfing Massachusetts liberal next time. We need somebody who connects white Southerners, like Carter and Clinton did. That's how a Democrat wins the presidency."

This attitude had to be SO HELPFUL during the election. As helpful as "northern elitist".

Because see, I don't want a NASCAR-watching, gun-toting, churchgoing whateverthefuck for a candidate either. And you wouldn't catch very many people from the Midwest or Rocky Mtn states making that kind of statement or wanting that kind of candidate.

And both Christians and Republican ideologues have taken over. But there are far more of them in the south.

[ultraist]

54. We need someone who can connect with regular Americans.

The candidate needs to be someone, who the rural folks, both in the midwest and the South, can relate to. People felt they could connect with Clinton and Carter.

MOST Americans are not New England liberals. They are mainstream folks all clustered around the peak of the bell curve. In order to win, we don't need to appeal to the few solidly blue states but the masses.


BTW, your narrow, negative sterotyping of Southerners is telling.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

79. I'm not even "from" the South, try again.

Anti-liberal bias? :rofl: I'm far left and I certainly don't go to church or watch NASCAR.

You obviously have never even been to the South. You've shown you don't know the first thing about the South but merely parrot negative, outdated stereotypes.

[sandnsea]

84. You're sure parroting the rw stereotypes

"northern elitists" "New England liberals"

I posted what a southerner said in January 2005. If you've got a problem with negative, outdated "stereotypes", tell him.

I've lived in the south, I've got family in the south, I was just in the south 3 months ago. Maybe I know a little more about what I'm talking about than you do.

[ultraist]

86. You posted the most stereotypical comment you could find

Whatever, you seem more interested in personal attacks than an actual discussion.

BTW, I have lived in the South for over 20 years, if you count FL and NC as Southern states. I think I do know a little about it.

Adios.

[sandnsea]

88. A southern Democratic leader said them

I see that all the time. Just like I see southerners and right wingers using the "liberal label" all the time. I didn't create this shit, but I am sick of it, all of it. Kerry's a DLC corporate whoring warmongering northern elitist New England liberal tax and spending pansy. Okay. Whatthefuckever.

[July]

99. I think Kerry was easy to listen to.

He generally spoke well and could give support to the point he was making. He also seemed very warm in the campaign appearances I saw on television. And, though he certainly has differences from "the masses," he also has much in common with them (e.g., he's a jock, he's a loving father, he's someone who actually did drink beer, unlike the phony people said they thought they could have a beer with -- you know, the guy who doesn't drink or interact with the common folk).

Most Americans aren't Texans, either, but so what? Our president only has to be an American.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. Good one!

[jillan]

69. THIS is the map you should be looking at

[ultraist]

80. That's a good one too.

My point was to show the blue areas in the "red" southern states.

Scapegoating and alienating southerners is not going to help win elections.

Dean even knew this, although he could have phrased it a bit better. ;)

[July]

100. Wasn't that 2000?

I'm pretty sure the numbers in the OP are correct, and that the other parties got a very small percentage of the vote this time around.

[globalvillage]

7. Sen Kerry's voting record is not pro corporation.

It's pro-union, pro-small business, pro-women's business concerns, pro-environment...
Why would corporations choose John Kerry? He has not backed corporate interests, he's fought actively for workers rights and small businesses.
I don't get your point. Why would corporations back John Kerry, of all people?

http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm#Corporations

[sadiesworld]

113. Kerry voted for NAFTA and virtually every other

corporate-sponsored "free" trade agreement in the last 15 years. He also voted for the '96 Telecom Bill which helped along the media madness which is driving progressive voices into the ground. Kerry had plenty of anti-worker votes in the mid 90's as well.

I suppose the one good thing about the endless Kerry campaigning is he has cast some decent votes lately (CAFTA and the Bankrutcy Bill). Not that it ultimately made any difference--other dems crossed over to vote with the repubs.

I'm also guessing that Halliburton, et al, were pretty pleased with Kerry's vote on the IWR.

[IowaGuy]

8. I'm not a "handler" or "corporation", and I voted\worked for him....

why do you choose to demean me and our democratic process in such a fashion?

[blm]

9. Because liberals like me wanted John Kerry cuz he worked his ass off to

investigate and expose more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history.

[sandnsea]

11. Everybody else in Oregon

Kucinich ran head to head against Kerry here. He visited every single hobunk town, even came here to Florence. He didn't even get 20% in a head to head primary in OREGON. He couldn't even get it as a protest vote against the "establishment" Dems.

Face it, people are NOT far left, not even Democrats. And Edwards, Clark, Lieberman, Gephardt voter does not flip over to Dennis Kucinich. None that I know did.

My observances on DU, in fact, were that Kerry people were the strongest supporters of Kucinich because Kerry's record is the most liberal of a candidate who could actually win. And almost did and might would have if there had been a fair election.

[Pastiche423]

21. "He didn't even get 20%..."

Could that possibly be because our primary in Oregon was not until MAY, when the primary candidate had already been appointed?

I was so damn furious, that I wrote to Bill Bradley, asking him why primary candidate's names were dropped from our PAPER ballot.

That was it for me. I re-registered as an Independant.

Kerry's record is the most liberal, my paralyzed ass!

[sandnsea]

27. This is too funny

The candidates weren't on the ballot because they didn't request to be on the ballot because they dropped out of the race.

That left Kucinich with the perfect opportunity to PROVE how much support a left wing candidate could get. Head to head in a primary that didn't matter one whit with a notoriously left of center Democratic Party. He flopped.

And yes, Kerry is the most liberal candidate we could possibly get that would have a prayer of winning. That's what I said.

Honestly, in a state where we have a hard time beating back the likes of Kevin Mannix, I don't see how you can think a candidate like Kucinich could win anything.

[_dynamicdems]

25. Say what???

I voted for him in the NH primary and so did everyone else I know who voted in the Democratic Primary. How DARE you suggest my vote, my daughter's vote, my son-in-law's vote, my sister's vote, my brother-in-law's vote, my nephew's vote, my nephew's wife's vote, my neighbors votes and friends votes and all the other votes by hard-working and loyal Democrats I know were somehow manipulated by the Democratic Party or some mystery corporations?

[Blue_In_AK]

26. Kucinich couldn't have come anywhere near as close to winning

as JK did. I'm really tired of this. Sure, he's a great progressive and I like the guy, but he couldn't have won. Period. Any more than George McGovern could have won in 1972.

[Noisy Democrat]

67. I didn't vote for him in the primary, it's true

but I look forward to correcting that mistake in 2008. At the time of the 2004 primary, I didn't know who he was. Now that I know, I'm behind him 100%.

[oregonindy]

121. you as an individual do not participate in who gets to run for president

voters do not directly select presidential nominees in these primaries

http://www.thisnation.com/question/021.html

Both major political parties in the United States select their presidential candidates through a process of primary elections. However, voters do not directly select presidential nominees in these primaries. Instead, they choose delegates from their respective states who will attend a national party convention to nominate a presidential candidate for their party.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/more.html

[oasis]

3. Millions of Americans backed a known loser like Bush. They are the ones

who would greatly benefit from your reminder.

Do a little reading next time you Bush adoring dumbasses :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:.

[Chicago Democrat]

10. He's not a clutch hitter... He's the General GeorgeMcClellan of

Democrats...Perfect for Senator! Stay there!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. You forgot the notso "progressive" vote for the war and occupation.

That he still supports.

[ProSense]

17. "who out votes Kerry on progressive issues (not one---all)" means...

No I didn't. And here is Kerry position:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2005_10_26.html

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. He still supports the occupation and slaughter.

His laughable "plan" is a CYA plan of trying to vindicate his cowardlhy support of Bush's war.

And, the "war" isn't one issue. It's many. From corrupt self-serving politicians who send troops to kill and die, to bankrupting the country by pouring money into a lost war.

Kerry sold out and is paying the price.

[ProSense]

20. Did you vote for Kerry?

If so, why would you vote for someone you believed to be a coward?

I think the war is one issue, and Kerry has offered up a great plan for bringing American troops home.

[ultraist]

37. Kerry or Bush? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

I'm not saying Kerry is a coward, just answering your ?.

[Noisy Democrat]

63. Kerry has said he would not

have invaded Iraq. He has called the war a mistake. He has called for starting to withdraw troops. If that's your idea of how a politician "supports" a war, I don't know what to say.

[Dr Ron]

53. Kerry never supported this war

Kerry supported going to war only if we were proven to be threatened by WMD.

Prior to the war he argued that Bush failed to prove we were threatened by WMD and advised against going to war. He even called for regime change in the United States at the onset of the war in protest.

Kerry opposed going to war, and now is one of the leading advocates of getting out.

[Alpharetta]

117. If only he had voted to keep Congress's right to declare war

what wisdom is there in ceding that power to a president he knows is unwise?

[RazzleDazzle]

23. We need to support our leaders

even when they're useless, inept, incompetent, and don't even have our best interests at heart.

Ah, yes. That kind of thinking will make you a Republican.

Or a Good German.

Maybe that's the best you deserve, the kind of leadership we're NOT getting from the likes of Kerry, but I deserve far better. And aim to get it.

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Good luck with that...

[beachmom]

96. Not sure how to tell you this, but we're living in 2005, not 1933

I happen to be married to a German, and your comment shows your lack of knowledge of both history and the state of the world today. Germany has been a vibrant democracy for over 50 years, with eastern Germany joining in 1990 after the wall came down in 1989. I think you would actually like the electoral process in Germany much better than here. They have 3 (yes, count 'em) left of center parties - Social Democrats, the Green party, and the Left party, and 2 major right of center parties - Christian Democrats and the Free Democrats (a blow your mind combination of free market principles with liberal social values - the leader of the party is gay). There is a far right neo-Nazi party that mostly attracts votes in the economically depressed East, but luckily not enough to reach the 5% threshold to get seats in the Bundestag. No, Germans are not happy about this development, but if their economy can improve hopefully this trend will reverse itself.

So there you go. You literally have 5 choices which actually will affect what government you'll get instead of our two. Oh yes, and just about everyone in Germany (I'm thinking 90%) is opposed to the Iraq War, including conservatives. Angela Merkel is chancellor now (yeah, they beat us in first female leader, too), and although conservative she has a government consisting of more than half of the ministries from the Social Democrats. Now let's think how many cabinet members * named who were Democrats after the '00 debacled election . . . maybe one.

Please think before you characterize Germans as Nazis. That is history, and although they should never forget their shameful past so that it not repeat itself, we should not act like nothing has happened since 1945.

[Rebelry]

24. Overall he has a great record

Thanks for your post. It's distressing to see how much he gets villified.

Yes, he made some mistakes, supporting Bush on the War In Iraq was one of them - it's a big one. But I also believe he reflects most of the values I have and is ethical overall. But like most career politicians, he's going to act like one (ie, vote for things for expedience). Unfortunate, but a fact. I'm not going to throw him over the side for that.

Reb

[globalvillage]

45. Welcome to DU!!!

I agree except that I don't believe Sen Kerry's vote for the IWR was the same as supporting bush* on the war in Iraq. As he has stated repeatedly, it was absolutely not a vote to rush to war, but to continue weapons inspections.

Mr Kerry says it best here:

"Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You're God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/121003A.shtml

Of course, some here do not agree with my views on this, or Sen Kerry's apparently, but there they both are, nonetheless.
:hi:

[Rebelry]

114. Thanks!

Thanks for reminding me of What Kerry said, I do remember that now and I believe him. I also think there was incredible political pressure to be on board with protecting the US from WMD which would make it difficult/impossible for anyone wanting to run for office to be viable if they voted against it.

Just my view.

Reb

[MoonRiver]

31. What a surprise (not), another pro-Kerry propaganda post.

:boring:

[seabeyond]

33. what a surprise, (not) a basher with nothing to say, wink n/t

[MoonRiver]

41. I think my message is pretty clear.

All this pro-Kerry propaganda being spammed across DU is boring and, frankly, offensive. Kerry propaganda is spammed across GD Politics and now it's starting on GD. Some of us are more interested in discussing current events than trying to prop up a failed presidential campaign for its anticipated and probably doomed resurrection in 2008. Kerry is fine as a Senator but so are many others. But their supporters don't think they have to take over DU. Instead they stick to their own candidates' boards and/or on GD Politics, when their guy/gal is involved in something significantly newsworthy.

There, did I say enough this time?

[seabeyond]

75. you know, you dont have to come into any of the threads, right

so i dont know just how offensive they can be. two three threads on the whole damn board is taking over, oh the drama. there are plenty of threads to go into and read. how do i know, i go into lots of threads and read, without a mention of kerry

[mzmolly]

32. Thanks ProSense.

:hi: Recommended.

[MojoXN]

35. First of all...

You forgot the three or so million votes that he was cheated out of by vaious means. Second, Kerry voted for the Iraq War Resolution. Everything else pales in comparison.

MojoXN

[_dynamicdems]

39. Thanks for the breath of fresh air!

God knows it was badly needed. I've been holding my nose...and my tongue for days!

I voted for John Kerry in the primary and in the general election and I'd do it again should the opportunity arise.

This past weekend I got to see Senator Kerry in action once again. He was at a small rally in New Hampshire for Manchester's Mayor Baines. The thing is: Kerry promised the mayor he'd have his back and true to color, the Senator was there for Bob Baines. It was a small room of mostly volunteers (including all the staff and candidates for local office there were less than 200) but John Kerry was there to support the mayor and impress on us how important it was to get out the vote for the mayor. Mayor Baines is in the fight of his life against opponent Alderman Guinta (a Republican). John Kerry has been working his ass off (forgive me Senator) this past year and not for himself, but for OTHER DEMOCRATS and for laws and legislation that will help all of us. After the NH rally, he was scheduled to go to VT to attend a fundraiser with Senator Lahey and at another event in Massachusetts.
This is how John Kerry spends his days off.

I wonder: what did the Kerry bashers do on their weekend? Were they out there working for social justice, demonstrating for a cause they believe in, putting their deeds where their mouths are or were they just sitting their fat derrieres behind a computer pissing and moaning about John Kerry? I think we all know the answer to that.

[mopinko]

43. he promised that every vote would be counted. they weren't

and he sat on millions of dollars donated specifically for that purpose. i hope he finds a nice cozy corner in the dustbin of history, which is where he belongs.

[_dynamicdems]

58. And how did you spend your weekend?

I hope you had a nice one. I got to see Senator Kerry and he didn't look dusty at all...not a bit. While others whine and complain, he's out there helping other dems and was in great form.

Word to the wise: don't throw good money after a lost cause. The leftover money is better spent helping out other Dems as he has been doing than fighting a dubious and protracted legal battle.

[mopinko]

78. counting votes is a lost cause?

sorry, we sent him that money to make sure the votes were counted. they weren't. period. he is a liar. and a liar about something that is the foundation of our government. they were not john kerry's votes. they were our votes. ours. and it was not just ohio. he had 4 years to figure out what to do if he ended up in gore's shoes. he didn't figure it out. he is a liar and a loser. if the people of mass. still want him, fine. i hope i am never see john kerry's name on a ballot again.

[_dynamicdems]

82. I guess it wasn't a very good weekend for you, after all.

Thank you for making my point.

[MoonRiver]

89. You're the only one talking about a bad weekend!

A little projection, perhaps? :shrug:

[_dynamicdems]

92. I was here!

Doesn't everyone look so sad and depressed?

[Noisy Democrat]

65. Which votes weren't counted?

As far as I know, they did finally count the votes in Ohio.

[mopinko]

76. well, you should do some more reading

only one county in ohio was recounted. one. because the audits were rigged. the precincts that were chosen were not random, per ohio law. and they also were told by diebold techs how to make sure that the sample counts came out "right", so that they would not have to "bother" with a recount. spend some time in the election reform forum. learn something. you do not live in a democracy.

[Noisy Democrat]

123. I've read piles

I was very involved in election fraud concerns last year. Even went down to Ohio to look for evidence. I was asking what specific concerns the comment about uncounted votes referred to. Different people have different beliefs about the extent of the problem.

[Dr Ron]

74. Sure they were

Counting of the provisional and absentee ballots continued after Kerry conceded. Kerry didn't concede until he was certain that there weren't enough votes to change the result, and subsequent review has proven he was right.

Kerry kept lawyers in Ohio to ensure that all the votes would be counted, and to investigate allegations of fraud. If fraud could have been proven before the electoral votes were counted, the concession would not have meant anyting.

Even to this day, Kerry remains a party to one of the on going suits in Ohio--and continues to spend the money donated for this purpose.

[jillan]

44. Prosense - Welcome to DU!

I appreciate your thread!

Kerry continues to be one of the top senators fighting for us against the bushiters. I would proudly support him in 2008!

[ProSense]

49. Thanks!

:hi:

[jillan]

56. Did you know there is

a John Kerry supporters group at DU?
You should stop on by, and join in the lively conversation over there.

[robbedvoter]

47. So, he betrayed A LOT OF PEOPLE!

The more you keep up this cheerleading section, the angrier people in real world get. You have no idea how offensive this is. It's almost what they do with bush after he screws up and they compare him to Churchill. Just as effective,

[jillan]

48. Fine - then don't vote for him in 2008.

Vote for McCain instead.

[MoonRiver]

90. LOL! You are absurdly assuming he'll get the Dem nomination!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[BlueIris]

110. Ah, pirhana. Glad to see someone's with me on '08.

:-)

[brentspeak]

51. Explain how he "betrayed" anyone?

He had no proof that an election was stolen, did he? So what was he supposed to do, contest the election when he has no information? We STILL don't have very much information that proves the election was stolen, just hints that the Repubs were up to no good (ie. the Warren Cty Lockdown).

[robbedvoter]

59. He helped burry the issue - most people have no idea it was stolen

because he didn't bother to challenge it. They know 2000 was stolen, but think W won this time - and wonder what we did wrong. All this stinking thinking is Kerry's fault. Selfish coward.

[brentspeak]

62. "He didn't bother to challenge it"

We're already going in circles here. How could he challenge something when there was nothing for him to go on? He's just going to announce to the American people on the morning after the election, "Although I have absolutely no proof of any sort that the election was fixed - I contest this election."

[Laurab]

105. You know, that seems to be exactly what people wanted

"Although I have absolutely no proof of any sort that the election was fixed - I contest this election." I've been trying to get that point across, but you got it in a nutshell.

Not that he would have looked at all like a raving lunatic or anything, well, yes, he would have but at least they wouldn't feel "ROBBED" and "LET DOWN" and all the other bullshit I keep on reading on here.

So yeah, that's the ticket, Kerry should have made a total fool of himself, and the Democratic party, thrown away his future, so a number of very vocal people here on DU wouldn't trash him so much. I think he made the wiser decision, myself.

[Noisy Democrat]

66. I see

So if Kerry had said, without any proof, that there was massive fraud and the election was stolen -- you're certain people would've lined up behind him rather than dismissing him as a lunatic? Color me skeptical.

[globalvillage]

64. And yet, you continue to visit

EVERY Kerry thread, pro or con.
You know what? I have over 200 fucking channels on my cable, and I probably watch less than a dozen. Some of them, I find offensive. And guess what? I don't fucking watch them. I don't turn them on, then bitch about the programming. I just skip over them. Some of them I even have blocked. Because I don't care about them.
What's annoying to me is that fucking bird flapping through half the threads I'm interested in reading. But I don't ask you to turn that off, do I?
If you don't believe the OP has the right to post pro Kerry threads, then you and I have different definitions of "Democratic Underground". And that's fine. Put us both on ignore. That's what it's for.
And if you honestly think DU is the real world, you must not get out much.
Offended yet?
How about this:
Kerry '08.
Ha!

[_dynamicdems]

68. When was the last time

you actually ventured into the real world? It might be an idea to actually go out and do something to help instead of continuing to lick your wounds and cast aspersions against those of us who do.

Yesterday, I was at a rally and I saw Senator Kerry in action. Maybe I'm wrong but I think all the others in the room who cheered "Kerry, Kerry, Kerry" were under the impression they were in the real world.

It was a room full of broad smiles because it was a room full of fighters, not quitters, and there wasn't an armchair quarterback in the bunch. It was a room full of people who care enough to take action and are willing to step up to the plate when times demand it most. Maybe this isn't your real world, but it is mine.

Maybe your real world is here.

[brentspeak]

52. Thanks for the post. The Repubs...er...the DUers who rail against Kerry

won't appreciate it, though.

[Dr Ron]

55. No they won't

The DUers who buy the claims against Kerry, such as that he supported the war or that he conceded prematurely, are just as gullible and mininformed as the typical voter who voted for Bush because they believed Saddam was behind 9/11 or was threatening us with WMD.

[NYCGirl]

107. Interesting to know that you think that all those folks who don't

think Kerry is the greatest thing since sliced bread are Republicans.

Why don't you just stop being coy and go directly to "You're either with us or against us"?

With attitudes like that, who needs Republicans?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. Here's my take on Kerry

He can back from Vietnam and did his thing. Some of the country thought he was a hero; some (most of the military and their families) thought he was a traitor. He went into this election with a good-sized chunk of the population dead set against him. The Swift Boaters were effective because of their sheer numbers. (yes, I know also the MSM, etc.) But what impressed people about them were the numbers. I don't think his flip flopping or his nuance or any of that did him in. It was the baggage he brought in. That's why Clinton beat Bush. Fresh blood with no baggage. And I personally feel that Hilary will go into a campaign with similar baggage.

I think both of these Democrats are exceptional human beings and good or even great leaders, but they have too much history to be president.

My opinion..worth what you paid for it.

[robbedvoter]

61. As compared with bush's history as a deserter and a crook?

Any BFEE challenger will be disparaged - history or not. The point is, we keep winning elections and they keep bagging them. And instead of addressing it, we talk of repeating it!!!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

70. What a gorgeous sig line! I might steal it

Hopefully he will be the last to challenge a BFEE member.

But we gotta get those paper ballots for sure.

[Dr Ron]

73. Numbers?

I don't think that the Swift Boat Liars had significant numbers. What they had going for them was the right wing noise machine.

Remember, the Swift Boat ad started out as an ad with very little coverage. The first time they tried in the spring they got very little attention. In August the right wing noise machine gave them a huge lift. Once Fox News was talking about them day after day, CNN finally went along, fearing loss of ratings.

The key factor was that the right wing noise machine turned a lie into a major story. If they can turn lies about one candidate into a major story, they can do this with any candidate.

It's not that Kerry has more baggage than anyone else, but that the right wing noise machine can make it appear any Democratic nominee has baggage. Falling for their lies, and letting this affect who Democrats nominate, is not the answer.

Democrats need to learn to fight the right wing noise machine. One step is to stop spreading their message for them, as so many of the Kerry bashers do.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

81. I agree with you about the nosie machine

but I am wondering, respectfully, what generation you are?

Because I remember those days and he was despised by a whole lot of people. I also remember some people would say "he'll run for president someday" and I thought "how could he ever be elected with so many people who hate his guts?" So with me it is memory thing..an impression, rather than something I can defend.

Now the number thing of the Swift Boats dudes I can't remember the numbers, but I heard colleagues saying things like "well every single one of the men in his company" yada yada yada so I was under the impression it was a group rather than a few individuals.

Now, if you are calling me a Kerry basher, I have to disagree. I don't think I am. I think he is a fine man. I would be honored to meet him. I'm just Monday morning quarterbacking and giving my opinion as to what happened. I don't think I'm spreading the message for the right wing noise machine, either, because...well, hopefully they aren't set up in this forum.

[Dr Ron]

102. Swifties

My comment on the Kerry bashers echoing the right wing noise machine was not directed towards your comment, but towards other comments which more clearly echo their talking points.

The comment "well every single one of the men in his company" is simply untrue. During the campaign Kerry had the active support of people who actually served with him. It was often people who did not serve with Kerry making accusations which contradicted the reports of those who served with him.

Even after Vietnam, I wonder how many actually despised him. Many of us supported him for the way he questioned the war. Remember, it was largely the same people (or should I say GOP hacks) attackling Kerry back then as during the 2004 campaign.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would hope that this many years after Vietnam most people (short of the far right who would never vote for Kerry) realize what a mistake that war was.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

119. This thread is probably about dead

but I wanted to comment on your post.

You raise a really interesting point about whether or not folks who were "pro war" changed their minds about the war in the intervening years, and therefore his baggage wasn't quite as extensive as I thought. I wish there were polls for that sort of question; it would be fascinating to understand.

I remember personally thinking he was awesome back then, but I have a lot of military in my family and I hear a lot of trash talk.

And I know that he certainly had Swift Boat supporters, but somehow they just didn't get the press. I guess his biggest error was not dealing with that more proactively.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[_dynamicdems]

77. You make a clear point.

And I agree with you...to a point. I don't think the baggage did him in, but I think it helped to hurt him. Probably cost him some votes but not the election.

I think it is just damn hard to beat a popular President. The Republican base thought the sun shined up Bush's... well, you know.

Any candidate worth his or her salt has baggage. You can't please all the people all the time, as the saying goes. I suppose you have to decide which candidate has the best combination of experience, integrity and the least damaging baggage. We started to be a nation of hawks after 911, but after Iraq, we are starting to head back in the other direction. Personally, I think Kerry's baggage would have been a handbag if it weren't for the misrepresented war on terrorism and I don't think it will hurt his chances if he runs again.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

87. I have read that

Senators are rarely elected President because their paper trail is too evident and that govvernors have a better chance. Do you agree?

[_dynamicdems]

93. Yes, but let's hope

that America has learned a lesson in electing an unknown quantity.

[fedupinBushcountry]

91. To much history

oh please. So I guess the only people that can be president in your mind are people like Bush, boy that fresh face really got us a lot of leadership.:puke: Oh by the way so were a good sized chunk of people dead set against Bush. Geez, do you have anymore rightwing talking points to throw in. :crazy:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

94. Don't pull the freeper card out on me

It's a cheap shot. I'm telling you my opinion why he wasn't elected. He Because he wasn't. I was a Howard Dean supporter and I think he could have beaten Bush because he didn't have an entire segment of the population who hated him for 20 years...and passed that hate down to their kids, even.

You said "So I guess the only people that can be president in your mind are people like Bush..." etc.

And just where in my post did I say that? How artful you are in reading between the lines things that are not there. You read minds, I suppose, in your spare time? Sorry, you missed here. You did not read mine.

I come to DU to have intelligent conversations about issues and you throw in "puke" and tell me I am "crazy." Because I said you candidate could not have won. These are not exactly selling points for your arguments, you know.

The Democratic leadership chickened out on Dean, the big corps got to them and bought them off and gave us an unelectable candidate. That is my opinion. Call me crazy and puke all over me. It won't change my mind.

[glitch]

72. K & R Well said Prosense, and Welcome to DU! nt

[Vektor]

85. So nice to see an intelligent post in what has been a sea of idiocy lately

Thank you for taking the time to actually find out the truth about Kerry before spouting off.
Well said, ProSense.

Edited to add: Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Walt Starr]

95. Sorry, he was hugely flawed

Single biggest flaw was not fighting back against the swift boaters.

[ProSense]

97. I think by now those who are not members of Bush's true base

realize that jumping on that boat full of lies has taken them up sh** creek.

I wonder if the Swiftboat guys now feel used by their leaders?

What Do You Know -- Bogus Intel Got Us Into Another War
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1106-20.htm


Probably not since this was about an agenda masked falsely in patriotism.

[Walt Starr]

120. Yep, but figuring it out a year late changes nothing

Bush si still in office.

And had Kerry not been swiftboated, he probably would have won.

[BlueIris]

112. Walt Starr, don't you want to be my favorite poster anymore?

I've seen exactly no evidence that "not fighting back" against the Swift Boat Liars lost Kerry the election or even allowed those who painted his victory as a defeat more ammunition with which to do so. Picking a "fight" with the S.B.L. would only have catapulted him into a lose-lose situation, which would have only made him and the Left look as petty and weak as the Republicans wanted when they planned that stunt.

[Walt Starr]

116. He could have Roved over them

We knew it was coming weeks before it did here on DU, so he should have known. From there, you get somebody outside the campaign to get nasty on them.

He tried to "stay above the fray" and failed miserably. Political elections ARE a fray.

[pox americana]

98. very sensible ProSense!

p.s. welcome! :)

[wisteria]

104. I still see Kerry as a great candidate,too! Thanks for posting.n/t

[Spiffarino]

106. He's a good guy. Hell, I worked my ass off for him, but...

...he ran a lackluster campaign. He snapped up Bob "0-for-9" Shrum and a few other Beltway Democratic apparachiks to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Kerry isn't a bad guy, but he's an old-school Democrat who always plays it safe.

Unless he's the only one left, I'm not going all out to support him. If he wins the primaries and is the last one standing, I'll kill for him.

[mb7588a]

115. Russ Feingold.

but he won't be kerry's running mate, he'll be his victorious opponent.

[corbett]

118. There's More To That...

Measured in total number of votes cast, as opposed to percentages, Kerry in the 2004 general election received more than Clinton in 1992, Clinton in 1996 and Gore in 2000!

http://www.johnkerry.com/action/20000

[pazarus]

122. Kerry was awesome

and when the news breaks that the election was stolen, people will look at him a bit differently, the way some of us here see him.

[helderheid]

thanks for the reminder - Will Pitt had a wonderful op-ed on him

I'll try to find it. Made this Kucinich supporter a Kerry supporter too.

[helderheid]

124. thanks for the reminder - Will Pitt had a wonderful op-ed on him

I'll try to find it. Made this Kucinich supporter a Kerry supporter too.