OK So my mom calls and says that the end of the world will come when

[xultar]

everyone has heard of Jesus Christ.

I say well what about the Jewish people? Why must the world end for them because every one has heard of Jesus Christ.

Then I ask how could we be so intolerant of others as Christians when Jesus wasn't intolerant of others?

Then she got really mad.

Then she said angrily, all I know is my religion I don't know anyone elses...blah blah blah...All I know is that you have to accept Jesus Christ to be saved....

Christians make me angry and almost not want to be Christian. How can a man who was as tolerant as Jesus Christ have followers who are intolerant ignorant idiots. Why must Christianity be the only key to the afterlife? Why must everyone follow Christianity to avoid going to hell?

I don't get it. Humans have screwed Christianity into the ground and made it the most intolerant, angry, un-welcoming religion in the world.

I'm so pissed.

[undergroundpanther]

1. Jesus and the Christian god are intolerant

Because christianity is derived from a tribal religion of an insecure persecuted small numbered people.

[xultar]

5. interesting...way of looking @ it

[koopie57]

2. I know, I get so angry when I think about it too

I get angry cuz God gets such a bum-rap. He is not the problem. The problem is anything and everything man-made that concerns him.

[xultar]

6. true, if everyone would realize that it's all the same stream @ different

periods of time we'd all be o.k. I don't get why they are fighting over the same cotton-pickin' story. Can't we all just celebrate the entire story why must it be owned?

[NYC Liberal]

9. God, please save me from your followers.

[xultar]

15. DAYUM that is one scary ass pix in your siggy!

[NYC Liberal]

18. LOL, I'm sure they'd even scare Jesus if he ran into them!

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Exactly

Which is what, I think, Jesus tried to address with the Pharasiee's. Of course all these years later it hasn't changed at all.

[aquart]

3. Everyone has heard of Jesus Christ.

Not everyone is impressed.

If it makes you feel better, many Muslims and Jews feel that way about their religions, too.

[xultar]

8. How do we get it together and speak up? We are ruining the very thing

that could bring us together.

[ikojo]

68. No, Jews do not proselytize...they will do outreach

FOR JEWS but they do not shove Judaism down the throats of non Jews.
Jews also believe that all the righteous of the world have a share in the world to come.

What Jews believe is that the Moshiach will come when all Jews are observant.

Please do not say that Jews feel the same way as Christians.

[xultar]

69. OMG - you didn't get it did you.

[bobbieinok]

80. in the west, maybe......but that's not the entire world (see 10-40 window

in post #79)

[bettyellen]

4. so she knows nothing about other peoples beliefs except they

must be wrong.
at least she knows she's ignorant.
it sucks though, i'm sorry!

[xultar]

12. That is what I try to press upon her. I know she gets what I'm saying cuz

she gets so pissed and quite perturbed.

But to keep spouting such craziness without thinking. I think people use religion as an excuse not to think.

[mondo joe]

7. You might ask why God would make a world intending it to end anyway.

What's the point?

[Jade Fox]

10. If it is "faith" these people have...

why do these (intolerant) Christians need everyone to believe exactly as
they do?

That's what I want to know.

[xultar]

16. I don't know but my Mom votes Democrat if that isn't scary.

My dad is kewl. HE gets it. My mom not so used to thinking about it just goes with what she is told without using her thinking cap.

[Ilsa]

11. I got so frustrated right after This Week was over when the local church

service came on. The choir director was telling everyone to bring an unsaved friend. Hey, we all know where you are. We'll come if we want to. Now bug off!

[xultar]

17. Like they can tell if we have the mark of the beast or not.

:rofl:

[mcscajun]

13. Is this how she says "Hello." on a Sunday Morning?

You have my sympathies.

[xultar]

14. Well she called about the tornado in Indiana...then said that in the bible

it said something about you'd know it would be the end of time cuz you won't be able to tell the seasons from one another. I said well mom, it's indian summer. NO IT ISN'T THAT'S IN THE SPRING...luckilly I was @ my pc and I was like no it happens twice a year in the fall and the spring.

Then she got into the whole well I do know that you'll know it is the end of times when everyone has heard of Jesus Christ...and welp you've read where it went from there.

Thank you...

OH keep in mind my parents are DEMOCRATS!!! My dad is pretty kewl he uses his brain. My mom and some of her lady friends have the same view and they are Democrats too. IF that doesn't blow your mind.

[doublethink]

19. Luke ch 6: 45-46 ......

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

"AND WHY CALL YE ME, LORD, LORD, AND DO NOT THE THINGS WHICH I SAY?" ..... - snip.
I'd be interested to hear your moms reaction to that verse. Peace. :)

[hobbit709]

20. Mark Twain said it

"Man is the only animal with the true religion-several of them"

[WritingIsMyReligion]

73. LOL! Twain is too funny. :D nt

[unpossibles]

21. um, if the world ends when everyone has heard of Jesus

then why the hell are they spreading the Word? Please stop! Don't call anyone else or send a mission to some obscure location!

I like the world, even with it's catastrophes and faults.



Altough I wish our current catastrophe and fault would quit.

[mazzarro]

22. My sentiment too

I have sort answers to same questions to no avail.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. You should show this to your mother

1 Thessalonians 5

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

[journalist3072]

25. I don't understand the problem here

Your mom is absolutely correct.

The Bible teaches us that Christ will return once the Gospel has been preached all throughout the land.

That hasn't happened yet, because there are still places that ban the bible.

And yes, accepting Jesus Christ, and professing him as your Lord and Savior, is a large step in being saved.

What's the issue here?

[Mr_Spock]

26. You're out of your mind if you are not being facetious

Just thought I'd made that clear.

[journalist3072]

29. Actually....

I wasn't being facetious at all. I was serious.

Now, the way the poster's mother went about it may have been wrong (as far as her tone and attitude).

But factually, she was correct.

And it just sounds like a mother who is trying to impart the Good Word to her child. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's what parents are supposed to do.

So again, I may not agree with the mother's tone and the way she went about it. But she was factually correct.

[Mr_Spock]

31. I think your view will be the downfall of society.

Exclusivity of religion is the one evil in this world that will destroy us all. I literally think people who preach this crap are insane.

[Perky]

71. I guess I am guilty by reason of insanity

Me and a couple of billion people acrross the globe. Funny how the world did not fall apart when we had political leaders like Jimmy Carter and Dr, King say the same thing.

[Mr_Spock]

85. Just because the majority of people are cowards afraid of the unknown

doesn't make it right. You of all people shoudl know that. I'm not afraid of dying and I've got better things to do than worry about my "life" after I die. I don't need to believe in magic or mythical creatures to sustain myself. To each his own, but don't tell me that mass paranoia is the right path unless 1) you can prove it's true and 2) might makes right.

[misternormal]

35. So....

You are telling me on no uncertain terms that the Christian word is the ONLY good word??

In my opinion that is quite arrogant. There are many "good words" that mean so much to many people. you may not believe as I believe, and the only thing that makes you feel right is your faith. I have my faith as well, but the truth is... none of us will know for sure until we go to our particular view of the hereafter.

And would you like to know one better?

I believe that if one is a good person, it matters not about religion... That person will find their version of "heaven".

But then the Christians can't stand that version of it can they?

[journalist3072]

36. What I am saying...

Is that there is only ONE God.

[misternormal]

39. Yes... That is what you are saying.

I believe in the "One"... The supreme power in the universe, but then I believe in polytheism as well.

[karlrschneider]

42. That isn't what the First Commandment says.

Can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

[misternormal]

43. You are correct, however...

I am not a Christian.

[xultar]

52. We all worship the same God. Just different names for the same.

You think people who worship Allah which is God will go to hell?

I don't think so. That isn't fair. There are good Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Christians, Wiccans etc. I mean Wiccans worship nature which is apart of God they gotta go to hell too?

[xultar]

48. But what if my best friend who is also a good person is Muslim. We don't

get to be friends in the afterlife?

That seems to be wrong in some respects. Why must the millions of other good people who have other religions go to hell?

[unpossibles]

84. look, I seriously try to respect anyone's belief system

and I understand what you mean, but to claim it is "fact" is something else entirely. You can believe, you can have faith that you are correct, and you can count yourself blessed to have received the message, and I am glad if that makes you happy or a better person. Honest.

But the word "fact" does not belong in your argument.

No offense meant, so please do not be upset. I will gladly discuss this with you or anyone else.

[xultar]

47. But there are good people in other religions who have different beliefs

why must they be destined to go to hell? Wouldn't our Christ preach love and tolerance and everyone who is good get to go to Heaven. So, Jews, Muslims and Budhists don't get to go? Or to they get to go to their own heavens?

Who would have thought that the afterlife is segregated?

[misternormal]

51. Maybe...

It is the same place, with different entrances.

Just a thought.

[xultar]

53. That is what I think. I'm goin on the side where good people get in.

I'm not going to hang with the ones where only the ones that believe in their crap get in. The BTK will be over there. :rofl:

[Mr_Spock]

54. So we can avoid the bigots after we die too!

I sure hope they stop being bigots after they die :D

[xultar]

78. Doesn't sound like it though.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

74. The issue is that that mother is ignorant as hell

(sorry to the OP :D).

"I only know what MY religion says..."

:banghead::banghead:

Makes me WAY pissed.

[Mr_Spock]

27. I think these thoughts EVERY DAY.

I can't get over how little people know about the reality of Jesus (and our founding fathers for that matter) and how much they eat up the rhetoric that's been spun by the Church since 300 AD.

I think most people are scared of the unknown and lazy.

[misternormal]

44. As I recall...

And it has been a long time since I attended a history class... But did not the pilgrims come to this country to escape religious persecution by the church of England?? And wasn't the church of england a Christian church?? And in the constitution of the United States does it not say something about no religion being the state religion, and that people are free to believe as they will??

I am merely curious.

[Mr_Spock]

49. You'll get nothing but agreement from me...

Believe as you will - stay out of my face and especially out of government :D

[xultar]

55. Now, there you go with that logical crap. Don't be bringing that up.

Which makes me wonder where all the Christians came from.

I mean with Pilgrams and the Indians everything was kewl. Then the Christians came and gave Polio laced blankets to the indians and killed off thousands.

[hobbit709]

62. Actually it was smallpox

but close enough. The first thing they did after coming here was persecute everyone who didn't believe exactly like them-see Roger Williams.

[xultar]

65. Thanks for the info!

[Ladyhawk]

28. Yeah. Sucks, doesn't it?

I've learned to be very wary of Christians, especially fundy Christians. If they're nice, they have an ulterior motive (conversion). They think they have the one true religion and are therefore better than me, yet they refuse to acknowledge this as the arrogance it is.

I try to be open-minded toward non-fundy Christians, but I admit that I am wary of them, too. I've had bad experiences with all kinds of religious zealots.

[progressivebydesign]

30. So if a few of us still hold out, the world won't end? COOL!!

I can count on myself, and several of my friends to keep the world from ending.

Seriously, I'm sorry you have to deal with that from your own Mom. I can't even imagine it. Some people just so desperately have to hold on to something... like religion, or booze, or drugs, in order to keep it together (in their mind). Sorry that so many people think they speak for Jesus all of a sudden. They've perverted his legend.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

76. LOL. nt

[Little Star]

32. I will match your Mom with mine

and up you with post#25 on this thread.
:crazy:

[Glenda]

33. "Jesus called. He wants his religion back"

- bumper sticker I saw last week on a car.

[kliljedahl]

41. This is in my back window

[Glenda]

58. heh heh! Have you gotten any response to it? n/t

[kliljedahl]

63. Not to it yet

I have a static cling clear sticker holder & have several & change the frequently. I did get a few responses this here in rosy red Indiana



static cling sleeve

Available at: http://www.evolvefish.com/

[xultar]

64. I'm gonna order a case of them!

[Rowdyboy]

34. Jesus would be SOOO pissed at the perversions of his teachings....

There are many paths to self-enlightenment, Christianity among them. But many people use religion as a crutch rather than as a means to grow spiritually.

Don't be angry at her. She's just reflecting back to you what she hears from her contemporaries. The face of Christianity has been hideously disfigured in the last few decades, hijacked by a loud-mouthed, anti-intellectual, rightwing minority. I'm beginning to be afraid they have won the war.

[Mr_Spock]

59. If the RWers take control of Christianity, then it has been destroyed

Jesus will have to come back - and I can't wait to see the faces of his "supposed" followers when they realize that the jokes on them. "Hey, this doesn't look like heaven - I wanna go back" Too late, ass hole :D

[undeterred]

37. Well, if she wants it to be the end of the world for her religion

that's fine. Ask if she's going to publish a rapture will, so the rest of us can have her stuff!

[YouthInAsia]

38. i broke up with a guy once over that. I said to him "so you mean to

tell me that the ONLY people going to heaven are those who BELIEVE in the same load of crap that you do??? What about the BILLIONS of other people who DONT believe as you do??" He said "they're going to hell, the bible says so." I hung up on him and never spoke to him again.

[xultar]

45. That is what I don't get. Why would a tolerant God allow good people

to be destined to hell yet bad people who believe get to go to heaven.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

77. A tolerant God WOULDN'T.

That's the whole freaking point. And if it turns out that God ISN'T tolerant, then he'd better leave me alone, because I won't have anything to do with an intolerant God.

[Aristus]

40. I'm a Christian, and I can't stand what the right-wingers and

end-timers have done to my faith. If you want some comfort from despair and blind legalism (and Jesus came to rescue people from both) then click here:

http://www.christianalliance.org/site/c.bnKIIQNtEoG/b.592941/k.CB7C/Home.htm

[xultar]

60. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THATLINK!!!! I'm excited and I've bookmarked

I can't wait to read in detail and get acquainted with the Christian Alliance.

[Aristus]

66. You're welcome!

They have helped me so much lately. Every time Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps goes off on one of their demented screeds, I can only shudder. When I identify myself as a Christian to someone, I worry if they are going to think I'm one of "them".

The Christian Alliance for Progress has given me hope, and made me feel good to be a Christian again.

[Javaman]

46. Just remember, man invented god. Then all will become clear.

[xultar]

57. Yes and the Catholic Church rewote most of the good word to suit

their empire.

[sakabatou]

50. You'll get a kick out of this week's trading spouses

Or crap in your pants.

[xultar]

56. I saw the commercial for it. Was it a fundy that went all ape on the guy?

She looked evil.

[sakabatou]

61. Yep

"I am a God warrIOR!!"

[oregonindy]

67. Heres a good link to send her..it'll make her head implode

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

[xultar]

70. Yes. Implosion would occur.

[Lexingtonian]

72. That's magical thinking

Speaking or hearing 'secret' words of power -> supernatural forces make things happen in the world, that's magic. There's a lot of that in traditional Christianity. I.e. if you say the contents of the Apostle's Creed on your deathbed in a way that other people find convincing, that annuls penalties for the massively sinful and criminal and homicidal lives lived on Earth in The Other World. It leads to this whole silly argument of the relative efficacy of Faith, Works, and Grace that keeps a lot of theologians (a job in which defenses of the indefensible are the product most desired and best paid for by the employers out there) at work.

The Hare Krishnas think the world will be saved/redeemed by everyone learning their Mantra ('Hare, hare, Krishna, hare') and chanting it often enough. At least they have a little faux psychology about the chant causing extreme peace and serenity of mind, then spreading to other minds, to make it plausible. In traditional Christianity the explanation of the chain of causality of its mantras is strictly speaking far more bizarre.

Ask your mom about the salvation of people who died prior to Jesus of Nazareth being nailed on the Cross- whether her God has tossed them into Hell or whatnot. Then ask here what God does with people who haven't heard 'The Good News' since that time. Then ask her what happens to people who hear a tiny little bit of evangelism, but not enough to convince them. Then, what happens to people who hear a missionary talk but don't buy it despite goodwill.
This conversation may lead you to hear a lot more invoking of The Devil and not caring about other human beings than you may have imagined your mother indulged herself in. Or she'll have to confess to some amount of universalism- grace- whose suspension in the face of Christian missionaries is pretty immoral of God, if you think about it.

As Mark Twain said, and he has a lot of nasty quips about American Christians of his time of this caliber, if Jesus Christ returned to Earth in the present there is one thing he would certainly not be- a Christian.

In the cultural-historical big picture of the U.S., monomaniacal exclusivist versions of Christianity formed when large numbers of uniformly un- or undereducated white settlers got out of cultural contact from the cities of the East Coast. They had to distinguish themselves as culturally superior to 'the savages' and morally superior to the poorest and completely illiterate whites and black slaves. They lost Science and systematic rigorous thinking, which are the unique features of European civilization, because they never had grip of them. Their edge in technology was all a creation of the Eastern cities and Europe. What they had left was their Bibles and raising in medieval European habits and cultural ideology and tradition.

These habits and traditions and cultural ideology happen to have been largely unchanged among common white people from their pagan pre-Christian European ancestors to where the settlers reached and crossed the Appalachians. (You can see this in rural Europe even to this day. Cultural anthropologists have a lot of fun with it.) Add in that settlement/conquest required an ideology of group superiority that is essentially magical aka occultism which had to be reconciled with their Bible as well. What the settlers did was furiously fuse their Bibles and these habits and ideologies in the way that struck them as what they needed. The result is a slew of religious sectarianisms with novel interpretations of Christianity that are variously paganizations and occultizings of the material, and/or revival or intensification of preexisting European versions of the same. If you look through a history book of Ancient World and medieval Christian heresies that were variously destroyed, the 18th century explosion of American sects revives and/or recapitulates probably every single one.

Lacking the Inquisition and wars that Europe had to reduce the diversity and extent of the corruptions, the U.S. has had survival of a lot of the detritus- Mormonism and Millerism and Seventh Day Adventism, televangelism as a reworking of The Great Revival, the Baptists splitting with one side saying black slavery is Biblically condoned...a huge mess of things. The result is what horrified Mark Twain in the 19th century and the Northern clergy up to the Civil War, which created the Snopes Monkey Trial and Christian Science and horrified Hannah Arendt in the Fifties as religiously justified fascism, and which in its present incarnation we now call The Christian Right. It's a survival of medieval and pagan Europe, superstition and magic materialisms (e.g. Caucasian skin color) and gross materialism and Nature God worship and agrarian fertility cultism and black magic and all. The acceptance of these things and ignorance of the alternatives makes Christian Right people extremely vulnerable to the most intensified defensive organized form of these things, which these days we call destructive cults.

But that all has now run into Modernity and its destruction of the purported Divine Order of the World- they call their conflict with it, and its advocates (us social liberals) our Culture War. They know the survival of their belief system(s) is at stake in it. Which is why they fight so desperately and bitterly and delusively.

[leesa]

75. So who does she think hasn't heard of Jesus Christ? Has she heard of

mass communication?

[bobbieinok]

79. there is a big push in fundamentalist groups to 'get the message out'

see for example the 10-40 movement

one link http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/1040.htm


10/40 Window: Do you need to be stirred to action?

Most of the people groups still unreached by the gospel live in places stretching across the maps of northern Africa and Asia. Christian missions strategist Luis Bush started calling this rectangular area or band: "the 10/40 window." He used that easy-to-remember name because it describes the areas of Africa and Asia from 10 degrees latitude north of the equator to 40 degrees latitude north of the equator.

....


World evangelism statistics: Of the 55 least evangelized countries, 97% of their population lives within the 10/40 Window.

Unless something changes soon, most of these unreached people will never hear the Gospel. Why? Well, Bryant Myers of World Vision has estimated that only about one and a quarter percent ( 1.25% )of Christian mission giving is going to missions work in the 10/40 Window. Open evangelism is difficult and even impossible in many 10/40 Window countries. Those are creative access areas.

....

Missions statistics from the places of the 10/40 Window:

Center of population:Two-thirds of the world's population -- more than 3.2 billion people -- live in the 10/40 Window.

Unreached and unevangelized: 95% of the people living in the 10/40 Window are unevangelized. Many have never heard the Gospel message even once.

Good news: There's a difference between unreached and unreachable. In 1989 there were only four known Christians living in Mongolia. That country now has an estimated 10,000 indigenous believers. Also, Christian television programming can now be received in many closed 10/40 Window nations.

Poverty: Eighty-five percent of those living in the 10/40 window are the poorest of the world's poor. < PowerPoint on Third World development >

Good news: Christians delivered more than $1 million worth of food to just one 10/40 Window refugee camp in a recent year. In one North African country that is hostile to the Gospel, abundant rain fell after an Easter service. A local news channel reported, "Christians have brought rain to the desert."

World religions: Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism are centered within the 10/40 Window. < more info >

Least evangelized cities: Half of the world's least evangelized cities are in this window.

much more....

[donco6]

81. Matthew 24:14 -

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come (Matt. 24:14, NASB).

A lot of fundies believe this literally.

[Chicago Democrat]

82. Don't blame Christianity for your mother's flawed version of it...

please.

Try to ignor her and figure out what YOU BELIEVE IN.



I have dealt with these type of people. It is best to let their fantasy world alone, just make sure she doesn't hurt herself or anyone.

You probably are so sick of her Jesus you want nothing to do with him. I got alot out of the Gnostic Gospels. For me peeling away the Bible, by looking at the parts they cut out (Mary magdeline and Jesus have sex, Jesus is not a God as much as a model of good behavior, the apostles are idiots, jesus has children) See these lies about the virgin birth and Mary Magdeline and Jesus being some sort of asexual being are bullshit that was added to keep women down. Also the miracles are total fairy tales. Oh and Jesus didnt die on the cross, they pulled him down and he got better, hence the 'resurrection', then he died.

[cmd]

83. Your mom is under a lot of pressure to save you

The fundies will hound her making her feel insecure because you are not following the program. She is into the fundamentalist cult and is not aware of it. My brother is a poster child for this. He feels guilty because he was unable to "save" our brother before his death. He fears religion and fears the wrath of God. I wish I had some suggestions for helping, but I don't.