Dean & Capital Punishment

[midnight armadillo]

I have a question regarding Dean's position on capital punishment.

But first: to all you Dean supporters who pounce with claims of distortion and negative phrasing, beat it. This is a serious question, I'm not trashing Dean, and ignore the Kucinich avatar.

Ok, on with the question. Dean claims that the death penalty is only appropriate for (quoting from his website): "I believe the death penalty should be available for extreme and heinous crimes, such as terrorism or the killing of police officers or young children."

What I'm wondering is what sort of criterion he's using to decide what a heinous crime is. At what point is a child's life no longer worth the harshest penalty? 10? 12? 16? Is it less horrific to, say, murder 5 adults than one child? Why should murderers of adults be exempt, unless the victims are cops? There is limited information on the website, and I'm curious to know what sort of underlying theory of justice, life, and death underlie this vague definition of 'heinous' crime. Would Dean commute the sentences of those on federal death row that do not meet this criterion to life in prison?

If Dean's "Presidential Commission on the Administration of Capital Punishment" finds that they cannot make meaningful reforms in the application of capital punishment, would he support the abolishment of it? Thanks y'all.

[mdmc]

1. well played, armadillo

I bet Dean will "Gov. Ryan" his posistion if he ever get to a sticky siuation where we are about to take the life of a perhaps innoent child killer.

Still, what would great Democratic County Legislature Atticus Finch think?

I support Dean, but this posistion will only help him win the election, not the primary. Well crafted.

[Jonathan]

2. Kucinich is the real deal...

Dean is not.

[Eloriel]

3. It seems to me that no one here can answer those questions

They are more appropriately asked of the candidate. None of us can read his mind, you know?

Eloriel

[Jacobin]

4. I'm against capital punishment period

I support Dean because he at least calls the Bushistas on their bullshit. I'll have to live with that difference, because someone against the death penalty today probably couldn't get elected.

Maybe one day, we will join the EU and other civilized nations in abolishing it as a barbaric relic from years past.

[midnight armadillo]

5. I agree

Any attempt to reform capital punishment, if not abolish, is infinitely better than the Bush/Ashcroft policy of "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out."

Still, it's one issue where clarity is appreciated.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

7. I'm with you

The death penalty is barbaric and illogical.

But neither of my #1 and #2 candidates, Dean and Kerry, would abolish the death penalty.

(Kerry said on MTP -- the issue is not on his pull-down issues list on his website -- that he would honor the laws of the states and also that he supports the DP for terrorists...sounds not so far off from Dean's position.)

I also agree that an abolish-the-death-penalty candidate would have a hard time getting elected. Which sucks, by the way.

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Speaking personally and not for Dean...

...not that I'm against him, either, mind you...

One reason that killing a child is regarded by many as more heinous than killing an adult is that children are believed to be innocent unless there's evidence to the contrary. Another, perhaps more weighty reason, is that small children can't fight back. You know how people say, go pick on someone your own size? I can see how it could be regarded as more heinous.

But I guess from a different perspective, 1 life = 1 life. I don't always see things that way, though.

Oh, one more reason: the child presumably has his/her whole life ahead of him/her. (Damn those clunky gender-specific pronouns.) The parents of the child killed will feel like the child never really had a chance to make a mark on the world (no cracks here, please).

BTW, It sounds like Dean was speaking generally, not laying down a hard and fast criterion for administering the death penalty.

[searchingforlight]

8. I don't understand the supporters of the death penalty.

I don't believe that the State maintains a moral high ground by practicing the death penalty. But, I also believe that if someone killed a person I cared deeply about, I would want them to have a lifetime to mature enough to regret it and know the pain of having done it.

The death penalty is too easy.

[mitchum]

12. but as a utilitarian, I 've always taken the opposite view...

in that society has invested less in a child, then his life is less valuable than that of an adult. This is all theoretical, of course...

[lapislzi]

19. potential doesn't count?

just playing devil's advocate here. What weight a person's potential for longevity and utility to that society?

[DianeK]

9. i believe this is a recent transition for dean

He was against capital punishment at one time. It kind of makes me think of people who are against abortion except in the case of rape, incest or whatever the phrase is. Isn't that life too? be against or be for, conditional acceptance to me makes no sense. The same with this issue. I am completely against the death penalty in all cases. Dean is an enigma, he will never be a one size fits all, but as of now I support him even though on some issues I do disagree.

[dsc]

11. the phrase is life of the mother

and these are rather different things. If one approaches abortion as having the need to weigh the actual life of the woman against the potential life of the fetus then those exceptions do make sense. Only utter pacifists argue that killing in self defense is wrong and the life of the mother fits that. The other two involve no active participation in decision making on the part of the mother and thus no acceptence of risk. Thus it is reasonable to argue that she shouldn't have to bear a risk she wasn't intending to take on.

The death penalty exceptions on the other hand having nothing to do with risk or self defense. I support Dean but find these exceptions unsatifying.

[dajabr]

10. Well put...

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out. For now, I look at Bush and Dean's records as Governors for insight.

How many did Dean put to death while Governor?

Bush?

I think in this case, Dean's past may well predict his future.

[tinanator]

13. Equal Protection?

For some reason this notion comes to mind when I hear his cherry picked excuses for state sponsered murder. Hey, at least he's against the war we already had!

[MaverickX]

15. equal protection...

For convicted murderers would sure go over well with voters. I ssupport the death penalty and it's not murder just because you say so.

[MaverickX]

14. In Dean's defense..

The courts do not view all murder as equal and capital punishment can only be issued in the case of aggravated murder. It's not hypocritical to say a man who kills somebody during a convenience store robbery shouldn't be put to death but Ted Bundy should've been. Killing a child is definitely considered an aggravating circumstance.

[poskonig]

16. I agree with you.

Here in Illinois, we have put many innocents on Death Row.

Dean, as governor, came to see that sometimes not executing someone can lead to innocent death down the road. While I am not inclined to this position, his response I saw on MTP was careful and well-thought out. However, I don't see Dean pushing for a ban on the abominable practice since the issue is usually dealt with at the state level. I also suspect he may be trying to tweak his position in order to win in South Carolina.

I still support Dean because this country is faced with a serious problem named Bush. The Dean candidacy is practical, desirable, implementable, and better than the alternative candidates.

[TLM]

17. Dean was anti-DP for a long time...

However he came to feel that for the very worst crimes, the death penalty should be an option.

I agree.

And any candidate who is 100% against the DP, is going to be 100% unelected.

[Larkspur]

18. Read Dean's whole view on CP

Capital Punishment

Capital punishment is an emotional issue, but supporters and opponents can agree that the death penalty should only be imposed after a fair trial. In recent years more than 100 death row inmates have been exonerated in the United States. The Bush administration has ignored this crisis but my Administration will address it.

George Bush and John Ashcroft have carried out the federal death penalty in a reckless and overzealous manner.
<SNIP>

Ashcroft is bringing so many questionable death cases that federal juries consistently overrule him. The New York Times reports that juries have rejected Ashcroft’s request for the death penalty in 15 of the last 16 federal capital trials.

Meanwhile, capital punishment is carried out unfairly in many states, but the Bush Administration has taken no steps to improve these state systems. Bush has ignored the Innocence Protection Act, proposed by Senator Leahy with wide bipartisan support, which would expand access to DNA testing and strengthen the quality of lawyers for defendants facing the death penalty.

I believe the death penalty should be available for extreme and heinous crimes, such as terrorism or the killing of police officers or young children. But it must be carried out with scrupulous fairness. I applaud former Illinois Gov. George Ryan, who imposed a moratorium rather than administer a system in which 13 innocent men were released from death row. In contrast, George Bush presided over a Texas court system in which dozens of men were put to death without adequate representation. Some had been represented at trial by lawyers who were sleeping or drunk.

As President, I would:

Promptly instruct my Attorney General to evaluate the federal death penalty system, take steps to ensure that it is applied fairly and reliably, and reverse Ashcroft’s overzealous policies.

Push for passage of the federal Innocence Protection Act to strengthen protections against unjust imposition of the death penalty.

Establish a Presidential Commission on the Administration of Capital Punishment to analyze the causes of wrongful convictions around the country and recommend additional reforms at the federal and state level.

First in Texas and now as President, George Bush has carried out the death penalty in a careless and negligent manner. I will handle this important responsibility very differently.