Loose lips sink ships, Mr. Miller

[LittleClarkie]

Think about it. Miller says that Kerry told him he couldn't come forward himself, that he was trying to get other Dems to lead the fight because it would be dismissed as sour grapes if he did it.

If true, then why is Miller trying to drag Kerry forward? In his statement to Raw Story, it would seem to be because he thinks that's where Kerry should be. But that's not his call, is it.

Perhaps that's why the angry denial from Camp Kerry.

Or maybe it was off the record.

Or maybe Miller misinterpreted what Kerry said, hearing what he wanted to hear and not what was actually said.

I don't know that much about Miller, and I'm not sure I completely trust Raw Story at this point, so I'm just gonna sit and wait so that I don't get punked again. It'll sort itself out I reckon.

It's all speculation to me.

[redqueen]

1. Kerry isn't backing Conyers up... even AFTER the GAO study.

Kerry = weak.

[Xenotime]

5. What do you mean?

Kerry is not weak.

[redqueen]

24. The GAO backed up Conyers.

Why won't Kerry?

[LittleClarkie]

6. Stayed in the GLib lawsuit after Conyers asked, didn't he?

Kerry = cautious.

[redqueen]

25. Now that the GAO substantiates Conyers' claims...

why won't Kerry take off the kid gloves?

[Tom Joad]

15. Kerry is standing for what he believes...

Despite a clear majority of American people who want the troops home now, Kerry is leading the Democrats to a pro-occupation policy that will only remove the troops after Iraq is "stable" (which it will never be while US troops are there. Duh.) But maybe wait until December 2006 to BEGIN to bring the troops home. gotta admit this guy has guts to go against the grain. dumber than dirt, though.

The moral of the story is that it is up to us. Do not give anything to these lackeys for militarism and occupation. We must speak for ourselves.

[Little Star]

2. Or maybe Miller is telling the truth? n/t

[mattclearing]

7. I don't doubt that for a second.

But it does no one (but Freepers) any good to know this.

[Little Star]

9. Mum's the word n/t

[LittleClarkie]

13. And/or Kerry is telling the truth and we're witness to a colossal

misunderstanding being played out in the press.

Kerry never struck me as a boldface liar.

[redqueen]

27. Misunderstanding?

Do you think Professor Miller is lying when he says that the statement made by Kerry's representative is false?

[LittleClarkie]

29. Did I say lie? I think Miller heard what he WANTED to hear

and is in fact convinced he heard what he said he heard.

However, what Kerry said and what Miller thought he was getting at might be two different things. I think that perhaps Miller has an agenda, which is to drag Kerry out into the daylight on this subject whether he wants to be there or not. Which isn't really Mr. Miller's call.

I'm still waiting to see what else develops.

[redqueen]

34. I think if there were room for interpretation Professor Miller would admit

it. I don't think he'd have the same response he gave to RS if there were such vagueness.

I could be wrong. As you say, we'll have to wait and see.

I don't like it one bit though, that this GAO report came out and still Kerry's sidestepping the issue. Doesn't really give me much hope wrt Kerry on this issue.

[LittleClarkie]

40. Given the articles he's written in the past,

I think he really, really wants Kerry to step out on the issue. He may have let his heart overrule his head.

All speculation. But I can't see Kerry being a liar either. So I'll just sit here with a little cartoon question mark over my head.

I should read his article re: "None Dare Call it Stolen". I haven't yet. I haven't read much of anything he's written, actually. I should.

[Clark2008]

3. Uhhh.... reporters are SUPPOSED to have "loose lips."

Maybe Kerry is just being his old too-cautious self again???

[LittleClarkie]

10. No, reporters are not supposed to have loose lips

It depends on how the conversation went, and if it was supposed to be off the record, or if Kerry was joking about the election and Miller took him seriously, or whatever the hell is going on.

[Clark2008]

26. And how long were you a reporter?

I was for 12 years.

My guess is that this is "source's remorse." Kerry said it and Miller reported it and now Kerry thinks he's going to sound "wacko" or something.

[LittleClarkie]

28. About 4 years, copy editor for a couple, proofreader after that.

It would depend on the ethics of the reporter, I reckon. My old editor used to use the Jiminy Cricket rule of ethics "Let your conscience be your guide."

[mattclearing]

4. You are correct.

No good can come of this revelation that Kerry said this. It only looks like sour grapes.

Nice to know that this is likely the case, though.

Too bad the Republicans are probably clued in now as well.

[Walt Starr]

8. Yes, but KErry knows damned well and good

there is no such thing as "off the record" with journalists and writers.

He should not have said a thing.

[mattclearing]

11. Or he could have said,

"I am aware of everything that happened behind the scenes in the election last year. I want to promote a more transparent election policy so that the questions regarding last year's election will never need to be asked again."

[LittleClarkie]

17. And filtered through Miller's thinking that translated out to

Kerry knows it was stolen and is working behind the scenes.

Misinterpreted is the most likely scenario for me. What Kerry said, what he meant, what Miller wanted to hear and how he interpreted Kerry's remarks all feeding into one colossal misunderstanding being played out in the press.

[cynatnite]

46. Miller heard what he wanted to hear...

That's my line of thinking. I can't imagine Kerry coming out on something like this even if he really felt that way. I don't believe Kerry thinks it was stolen from him.

[LittleClarkie]

50. Oh, I think he has suspicions, but no proof

and my obsessive/compulsive former DA who never lost a case ain't goin' noplace without proof.

What bugs me about what Miller appears to have said to Raw Story is his "appeal to popularity" bandwagon theory in talking about what "most Democrats" want out of Kerry. Most of the Democrats I've met are not upset with Kerry over fraud. I met one progressive/leftie who is, but otherwise I keep hearing "We lost. Get over it." or "I agree that something is fishy, but what could Kerry do?" So there's another example of him projecting his desires onto another group of people.

Not to mention that there is something mighty odd about the Sen. Dodd connection.

Sigh.

Who was it who said that the Democrats keep thinking the press is on their side, but they're not.

[Walt Starr]

33. WOW

You should be a politician! that's a damned good way to approach this thing!

[mattclearing]

38. Too many skeletons, my friend.

But thanks for the compliment. :)

[Walt Starr]

42. I know what you mean

We'll leave it at that.

I'm an out of the Broomcloset Pagan myself. Totally unelectable.

[seabeyond]

16. unless there is more to the story , that we dont know

because this reporter chose to report selectively, how do we know. all we know is this is put out, and then as people get excited as others diss kerry, the same reporter totally took kerry down.

and what, i am going to assume integrity here when it has to do with kerry. i have seen very few in media say or do anything positive when it came to kerry.

no i am not trusting this whole set up either. there is no way i am going ot know if we got hte whole story, part of a story or what

i dont trust this at all .... today

[sandnsea]

18. Still sounded like a joke to me

If I had a nickle for every time I heard a boxer lament, "I was robbed." Everybody knows it means that's the way boxing goes, not that there's proof that the mob paid the judges or ref in that particular fight. Yeah, Kerry should know you can't trust anybody, what a helluva way to have to live.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Exactly

if you don't want people to know how you think, then shut your mouth.

I just wish Kerry would just say what everyone knows and the hell with what some jerks thinks. This is the main thing that drives me nuts with Kerry.

[redqueen]

35. "I just wish Kerry would just say what everyone knows"

hear hear

[meganmonkey]

12. I think Miller is a pretty reliable guy

I think it is much more likely that Kerry was speaking honestly, off-the-cuff, and Miller ran with it.

Now Kerry is freaked because god forbid America finds out that not only was the election stolen from him, but he hasn't done a damn thing about it (that I can see, anyhoo), about the fact that our deMOCKracy is fricking joke.

:shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

14. Would the lawsuit in Ohio qualify as a "damn thing about it"

or no?

And most of America would likely think this is bullshit, and Kerry is being a whiny baby.

[meganmonkey]

30. I am familiar with the fact that he is part of the recount lawsuit which,

IIRC, is set to go to trial in Aug of 2006. That's great. But that is about a recount in one state, not about the bigger picture. I just find it disppointing that he and his colleagues have done so little to bring this issue to the forefront in time to make our next election a democratic one.

"And most of America would likely think this is bullshit, and Kerry is being a whiny baby."

That's exactly the problem. America would think he is a whiny baby, just like much of America thought those of us protesting the war for the last three years are whiny babies, just like they thought those of us bitching about the power the oil companies have over our gov't are whiny babies...But eventually, all of us 'whiny babies' keep it up long enough, and the truth sinks in. I think he needs to start speaking truth about this, LOUDLY, along with many other Democrats, and then fewer Americans will think we are being whiny, and they'll start joining in the chorus just like they are with the war and the oil and the jobs and the rest of it.

And then, maybe, we can get it fixed in time for something, in time to make a difference.

:shrug:

[redqueen]

36. And shouldn't that be the most important thing?

Getting the "big picture" on this issue more visibility, ASAP?

[panichol]

19. Miller reliable?

Listen, I'm from GA and he completely betrayed us......I would not consider him anywhere near the realm of reliable! *PLEASE IGNORE THIS STUPID POST!*

[meganmonkey]

20. Ummm...We aren't talking about Zell Miller

unless Mark Crispin Miller has done something to Georgia that I am unaware of, I think we aren't on the same page here...

[panichol]

21. my bad

I had seen other posts about him and I thought that was who you meant

[meganmonkey]

31. No worries

And welcome to DU, btw!

:toast:

[Pastiche423]

47. My sentiments, exactly!

Why anyone would support such a wussy, no stance politician w/warm milk in his belly is beyond me.

Hell, he proved he wouldn't fight for us a year and a day ago!

[seabeyond]

23. i want to know how miller previously reported on kerry, i know raw

story has never favored kerry and often prints stories that only make kerry look bad, not putting out fact but their interpretation. they are not fams of kerry. how does miller tend to tell stories with kerry

[LittleClarkie]

32. Unless our own Lalarawraw is on the story, of course

then the story tends to be fair toward Kerry.

[garybeck]

37. I'VE HAD IT WITH THE 'SOUR GRAPES' EXCUSE

Sour Grapes is a very lame excuse. it is demeaning to the american public.

we want someone who is not afraid of sour grapes. We want someone who is going to stand up and fight the evil that has taken over our country.

the next time I hear how someone is wimping out because they are afraid of sour grapes, i'm going flush a box of raisins down the toilet!

[LittleClarkie]

41. Read what Walt Starr has said in these threads

It's not being afraid of sour grapes, it's that the whole thing will be discounted because of it, which won't help the cause AT ALL.

[garybeck]

48. that makes no sense

the truth is on our side. the whole thing is not going to be discounted just because people talk about it. that is ridiculous.

[LittleClarkie]

49. Not "people"

KERRY. It can be argued that he is precisely the person we DON'T need out front.

[Catherine Vincent]

39. Freepers threaten their posters with that statement everytime

they post a message. It's right there in bold red...."loose lips sinks ships"

[AZBlue]

43. I'm betting it was an off the record remark which Miller should have

kept off the record. I feel sorry for Kerry - who the hell can you trust when the author of a book that appears to be on your side turns around and stabs you in the back. Kerry's right to keep quiet about this, at least for now. Right for him and right for the Democrats.

I'm so sick of Democrats just handing over to the Republicans the very stick that they will use to beat us up. You have to know your enemy to beat your enemy and if Kerry starts whining about sour grapes that will give them so much fuel we'll never hear the end of it. They will use that to move the focus entirely from an investigation to Kerry's comments.

I say don't support Miller's "outing" of Kerry - not if you want to ever expose what happened and see reforms occur in your lifetime!

[panichol]

44. Sean Vanity is of course

gleefully playing the audio of Miller on his show today.

[AZBlue]

45. Exactly! And, welcome to DU, panichol!