Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen... updated

[cal04]

Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen... Developing...

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Senator_Kerry_rebuffs_claim_he_said_1104.html

[Howardx]

1. punked out again

n/t

[Stand and Fight]

2. Oh shit... This will be interesting. n/t

[helderheid]

3. I wondered if because it was a casual conversation if he'd rebuff it.

[MelissaB]

4. Shit!

[IChing]

5. Please don't say this..Please don't flip flop....damn it.

I hope this another raw story breaking story getting it wrong.

[helderheid]

7. Kerry needs to run with this and not away from it.

[MelissaB]

I agree. I wish there was a way for us to talk to him.

I'm frustrated.

[helderheid]

14. Doesn't Will Pitt have a connection with him?

Mr. Pitt - can you deliver a message?

[IChing]

35. It is not confirmed yet..so we will see..breaking stories from Raw have

been off base a few times so let us hope this one is too.

[IChing]

56. fuck it broke and he said it, fuck, fuck etc.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[LittleClarkie]

77. Raw Story broke other things before Fitzmas as well

I don't believe everything I hear and read, do you?

I'm waiting to hear if it was a misunderstanding between Mark and Kerry, or if it was not something Kerry wanted widely publicized, or if one or the other is a lying sack.

I'm waiting.

[Junkdrawer]

6. John: You walk away this time, your political career is over...

Shit or get off the pot...

[blm]

8. Well, let's hear what he said he said to Miller.

.

[AspenRose]

19. Prudent approach.

[BuyingThyme]

9. No balls.

[MelissaB]

24. Look here

http://www.comearmageddon.blogspot.com/

I started to post the image, but I don't know if it's agains the rules or not.

[BuyingThyme]

31. If they get enough balls,

they should share some with Kerry.

[garybeck]

10. Gee. I thought he "had our back." n/t

[villager]

11. Dean looks like a better and better choice all the time, doesn't he?

n/t

[carolinalady]

12. Guess those complaints we gave them about the Developing

stuff fell on deaf ears.

[Walt Starr]

13. EXCELLENT!

Good. Now Wolf Blitzed can't put up a picture of KErry with a tinfoilhat.

[carolinalady]

15. What about the GAO report? Why would it be tinfoil?

[helderheid]

16. The "press" spins no matter what. Why not tell the truth?

[MelissaB]

18. Do you think this will go anywhere if he rebuffs this now?

I haven't been around long enough to know.

[Walt Starr]

30. Kery is not the right person to be involved in this

Get somebody else to cary the water. If there's hard evidence or hard evidence is ever produced, it would play much better for Kerry and the Dems if Kerry si not out beating the drums of "vote fraud".

Strategically, the decision to stay distanced from this issue was made when Kerry conceded. It now has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in the public sphere, then Kerry can make huge amounts of political hay playing the martyred victim who had his presidency stolen out from under him. This would give HUGE POLITICAL POINTS to both Kerry and the Democratic Party as a whole.

[MelissaB]

37. It will be interesting to see how he words this.

Thanks, Walt.

[iconoclastNYC]

49. I call bullshit.

The Republican Party is melting down and you still want to act as if they are well loved and Bush has a 80% approval rating.

The public is ready to be told the truth about this election. The time is right.

[helderheid]

51. the timing is PERFECT - right before the 2006 elections and in time to

save them

[FreedomAngel82]

63. I think so too

The only reason why I can think of why he's rebutting the claims is for hush-hush reasons. For all we know something could be going on and they're not ready yet to make the claims. :shrug:

[Walt Starr]

61. Call bullshit all you want. Kerry has rebuffed the report. n/t

[lonestarnot]

22. Yes I see that you are. LOL

[mod mom]

28. He may rebuff it but it doesn't mean it's false. nt

[blm]

34. OK...I hear ya....but I was hoping the story would come out now.

I sure wish another senator would run with it.

[bpilgrim]

83. if we just keep pretending everything is OK, i'm sure we'll lick'm

next time

peace

[Stephanie]

17. Just sent to Mark

This is getting interesting!

:popcorn:

[MelissaB]

32. I hope he replies here. n/t

[nomaco-10]

20. Now there's the Kerry we all know and .....

feel so utterly ambivalent about. Kerry never disappoints us in his strong stance to vacillate. Way to go John.

[lonestarnot]

21. Walt Starr should be happy about this.

[KoKo]

29. He's very happy ....above here. Says Kerry won't have to wear Tinfoilhat

:D.... Some of us wonder what he means by :tinfoilhat: :shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

38. Mr. Starr has been very consistent in his opinion that the BBV issue...

is 100% tinfoil - with the exception of a few posts here and there where he advises us how best to insure the issue is pursued appropriately.

[lonestarnot]

45. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Junkdrawer]

47. Absolutely. n/t

[bullimiami]

23. dumbass gave it away. there is no fight in that mutt.

[stop the bleeding]

25. Typical, Dean wouldn't flip on this - he would scream them to death

KKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW!

He should have been our boy not Kerry.

[kansasblue]

26. Don't say nuttin Kerry. I can understand you don't want to fight but...

don't work against us.

[Mass]

39. delete

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. I expected as much

If we didn't hear it coming from his lips I didn't think he'd own up to it.

[Mass]

33. I did not expect Kerry to say that publicly -

If Mark's claim about the Senate are correct, it would probably be a real problem.

[OneBlueSky]

36. when I first read MCM's comments, I thought "uh oh" . . .

I figured that disclosing something so significant from a private conversation wouldn't sit too well with Kerry . . . if he'd wanted it known that he was convinced the election was stolen, he'd have said so himself . . .

didn't take long for that particular hunch to pan out . . .

[helderheid]

40. I felt the same way.

[Mass]

48. I thought he would deny it when I saw that Dodd's name was in MCM report

In the Senate, it does not go well to accuse a fellow Democrat to do things like that.

With people starting to call him, it is not surprising that the denial came ASAP.

[KoKo]

59. Then I wish Mark Miller hadn't said it at all if it was a confidence

or even just an offhand remark to him that he didn't think would be repeated. It just causes more unnecessary "angst" at Kerry.

Unless Miller was in a way trying to get attention to the GAO report and figured he'd take a hit revealing a private statement for the attention. :shrug:

[NoBushSpokenHere]

84. I had the same hunch.........

and have had a theory about the silence which I will keep to myself for the time being.

[Bluebear]

41. Kerry is working BEHIND THE SCENES!

:evilgrin:

[Pithy Cherub]

43. LOL! Incorrigble.

The irony in that statement is just rich.:P

[Bluebear]

44. Sometimes I just can't help myself :)

[oregonindy]

42. Turn in to the gunfire or away from the gunfire senator its up to you

I pity you if its away.

[darkmaestro019]

46. (head plus desktop) (grabs Kerry's lapels and shakes him very hard)

It WAS stolen, dammit! (shake)

Twice! (shake)

And we can watch in breathless anticipation as all kinds of empty gestures are made to stop Them--as long as They count the votes, the good guys lose. (shake) Period.

And you promised (shakeshakeSHAKE) to fight that and you conceded about twelve minutes later!

Admitting a mistake and trying to rectify it is mature, noble, and good. Backing down over things that are TRUE because you're afraid people will be mad at you for telling the truth is called cowardice.

Perhaps next time the Dem candidate could be a very large generic-yuppie looking sort of doll with a pull string that says REPUBLICANS ARE CHEATING LYING GREEDY FUCKS and nothing else. At least it'd stick to its guns.

[meganmonkey]

69. Oooh lala! Them's fighting words!

Too bad Kerry isn't fighting. As far as the folks who think he still is, 'behind the scenes', I sure as hell hope you are right.

And to you darkmaestro, I say WELCOME TO DU!! :toast:

[paparush]

50. Cmon Kerry...STAND UP AND FIGHT!!!

Damnit we need a fucking Champion!! Reid can't do it alone. Open up another front on these fuckers!!

[janx]

52. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5265465

And do you know what happened in the House today?

[mzmolly]

53. "KERRY" did not rebuff crud. "A spokesperson" did.

A spokesman for Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) vehemently denied that the senator had told a popular liberal author and journalist that he believed the 2004 election was "stolen" in response to queries...

I'll await further clarification personally. Also, It might have been prudent to ask Senator Kerry if one could share this private conversation before doing so?

What Kerry says off the record, may be different then what he's ready to say publicly as a "statesman and politician." Sucks, but that's Politics.

Flame away.

[Stephanie]

55. it's a teaser - the story's not posted yet

www.rawstory.com

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Exactly!

And as you pointed out it wasn't Kerry himself but it was a spokesman. Just because a spokesman says it doesn't mean it's coming directly from Kerry. And for all we know they could be wanting it hush-hush until they can come out with a bang. Remember that the republicans control everything. Same thing with Reid closing the Senate and why he didn't tell anybody else except the three democrats who knew.

[Stephanie]

54. Here is Mark's reply >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5264692&mesg_id=5265960

[DS1]

57. How can this be DEVELOPING? He EITHER DID OR DIDN'T?

Fucking raw

[mtnsnake]

62. No, he did AND he didn't.

:evilgrin:

[DS1]

79. Well he certainly voted for doing it before he voted against doing it

:hide:

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. So did Don Corlione place a call to the good senator and

remind him of that thing they have to use for this is unacceptable? (Antrax)

After the talk I had with Akaka over two years ago would not surprise me one iota...

The revolution will not be led by any of them... ANY of them... it is up to us, always always will.

[mtnsnake]

60. Why should anyone be surprised?

"Well, I think the election was stolen..kind of..but not really..but then again..yes it was..but only stolen in a non-stolen kind of way.."

[AZBlue]

64. I don't know Miller had the right to publicize that conversation -

if it really took place at all. He is trying to sell books after all (it's certainly one I will be reading!). But, if this was an "off the record" conversation, as it sounds like it may have been, he should have kept his mouth shut.

And, Kerry should be the last one to say that the election was stolen. As the loser of the election, that just gives the Repbulicans the excuse to drown out all the corrobrating evidence because he's just "whining" over "sour grapes." It will be hard enough to get the government and the people of this country to pay attention to the situation - we don't need to throw obstacles in our own path.

Lastly, for Kerry's own sake he shouldn't say it publicly. Not yet. Not until there's a formal investigation. He's a public figure and all he his are his words and actions to bank on. If he starts gives them the opportunity to call him a cry baby, it's only going to come back to haunt him. I applaud him for not going public, at least not yet.

[kansasblue]

70. then Kerry never should have said anything to an author.

[AZBlue]

80. "Off the record" is standard w/authors & journalists

I really don't think Miller is such a rube that he doesn't know the difference between on the record and off. He may know better but he didn't adhere to it. Kerry's not the one in the wrong here.

[second edition]

66. This is as it should be! Kerry correct to handle this the way he did. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

67. The attribution on this paragraph is unclear

"I think, frankly, that he is making a very serious mistake by taking this tack, because as I tried to tell him last Friday night, the only way that he can redeem himself in the eyes of most Democrats is to take the lead on the issue of election reform, and that requires speaking honestly about what happened last year."

It comes right after the Jenny Backus quote, so one would assume she's speaking. And yet it sounds like Miller speaking.

If it's Miller, then I'd ask, gee, has he polled most Democrats? Because most Democrats I speak to either don't believe in the fraud, or they do but understand why Kerry had to do what he did in conceeding. They think it's dirty, but they don't seem to blame Kerry. I've only ever met one person who blamed him and cried about how her elderly parent donated money and such.

Hm. Don't know what to think now. Our choices:
1. Miller is a lying sack of shit.
2. He joked about it, and Miller took him seriously
3. Miller misunderstood what Kerry said, and assumed.
4. Kerry doesn't want that info well known, and so is playing damage control.
5. John Kerry is a lying sack of shit.

Forgive me if I don't go with 1 or 5. I'd accept 2, 3 or 4.

[second edition]

68. Negative responses are not fair to John Kerry,He gets bashed

and he wasn't even given the benefit of the doubt to begin with and he wasn't even responsible for starting the rumor. Yet all the blame comes his way. Ever think to check sources real well and make sure things are as they seem? It does sound like someone may have wanted a little attention paid to his book. I never thought Kerry would have made a statement like this one. Perhaps, some remarks he made were misinterpreted.

[garybeck]

72. Kerry should get bashed

he allowed the election to be stolen.

[mzmolly]

81. He *allowed* it to be stolen?

Can you suggest what he should have done exactly?

[seabeyond]

85. i ask the same question. i have yet to get an answer

just he should have not conceded. what should he have done i asked. i get no reply none.

[desi826]

89. OK, I'll answer

1. He should have FOUGHT those Swift Boat Liars as soon as they started coming out on him.

Not run away from the press but fight them too.

Everyone knew they were lying, but he made himself look like a wimp because he never fought back until it was too late.

2. He could have LISTENED when EVERYONE from Greg Palast to the NY Times, and Washington Post were warning them about Ohio.

They TOLD him it would be this state that would cost him the election unless he demanded more oversight of counting procedures and check into complaints about millions of early votes that were being discarded.

Again, he did nothing.

3. He could have pressed harder for Ken Blackwell to recuse himself from the election. He proved before the election that he did not have the objectivity to perform his job.

4.And lastly, he should have waited at LEAST 24 hours before conceding.

It took that long before the first vote counting "irregularity" revealed itself. This is why Repubs push so hard for an early concession.

They know that as long as the election is in question and an irregularity comes out-especially one that favors Bush, his legitimacy immediately comes into question.

The longer a Dem holds out, the more likely it is that they are going to get caught and the Dem will win.

If I were head of the Party I would make it a rule in all crucial elections including Presidential ones, that it is mandatory that they wait 36 hours before conceding.

Believe me, more Dems would win that way.
Des

[seabeyond]

90. people wanted him to stand and say, election stolen. you still

didnt answer what he was suppose to do. but i will address what you put out

1. august. bush still gathering money for his illegal sept convention that all knew was illegal and he wasnt called on. kerry couldnt spend any money in aug. swift boat had come out in march for an afternoon adn was dismissed. absolutely no traction what so ever. when it came out in aug, kerry wanted to go after and didnt. listened to his people. trying to save money. it was a lie, media should do their job. he admits it was a mistake. one of the few in his campaign. and he admitted to it. said it was a mistake. said he should have jumped on it. so a mark for you. kerry agrees with you. he did wrong. bad kerry

2. this is where i say many dems, be it politicians or ne coast educated dems. they didnt seem to believe the ability the repugs had in theft. the audacity the repugs would use in stealing. we saw it across the nation, az and nv throwing away registeeration. they have yet to get in trouble for. they went to court in ohio to make intimidation legal. we knew so much of it here on this board, but we sat right here reading it day in and day out. how we go against something like that would have to be all of us get together and be aware and address. but man, to pin this huge corruption on one man. i can say he had lawyers, he had people calling things. i dont know what i believe. i wanted this addressed. but back then, the majority of the nation didnt believe. they still dont. with that is resistance. then you have media that scoffs if a dem says something. all this is a part, cant dismiss a single thing. you want kerry to do things, but you dont address his basic support not believing, the media and their role, the repression of all bush criminality and the criminality in ohio. all this is a part in what happened

3. kerry could have pressed harder. how about the dems in ohio, the dems across the nation, the dnc and dlc. think they could have helped a bit. kerry was busy. i know. i was watching. again went to court and time and again judges, repug judges were making amazing rulings like we had never seen

4. now the question........waited 24 hours? say this election stinks? adn it did. what would that have gotten him. we watched a line of people for ten hours stand in line in freezing and 2 a.m. and there vote still not be counted. what could be more powerful than that. and still the nation wasnt outraged. what would kerry saying the election was stolen. i am not conceding and media pounced. what would kerry, democrats, you or i gained. this is my question

you have unreasonable expectation of one man and you are demanding reasonable to be unreasonable.

if the nation was not willing to stand up
to ten hour lines
court saying intimidation of minority ok
peter king saying they already won, we stole it, well before election
kerry/democrats, not one positive press moment
democrats being called anti christian (my god that people didnt stand up for me)
bush 90% neg. kerry 20% (one ad) and both being painted as neg

the american people did not stand up. we failed.

that the american people did not loudly reject swift boat. that any repug, any military would buy into that. and so many did.

we failed. as a nation

kerry did fine. kerry ran a good campaign, though not perfect

we failed

[seabeyond]

91. fuck this pisses me off. cause it sells me short and everyone that worked

their asses off. you know what the dems accomplished. dean clark edward and kerry all out there. the families. damn the dems kicked ass. and screw you for dismissing all we did. this is what i said immediately after election. i saw it coming. it was, dont forget what we did. kerry won. he beat is ass. they had corruption, lie media religion theft......... and we won. bush and cheney had so much shit they were throwing out every second of every day that media helped them with. kerry and edwards were putting out fires all over the fuckin place. and you wanted more more more. well i did too. it was that inportant. i also know they are just people. pretty damn good people adn smart people adn hard working people, but they were just people.

we busted ass across the nation. kerry and edward stood in integrity and honesty, and intellectual, and and..... i wont throw that away because you cant properly direct your neg energy

i told my boys the day after election, i let them stay home from school, play hookie. they didnt want to go back to a private christian school of fundamentalist that were cult bush bush bush chanting, fuckin chanting. i told the boys they were brave, they stood up, we stood up, we spoke out, we knew the truth, we saw....... this is no longer our lesson. this is going to be the painful for all these people that attacked us so unchristian, this will be their lesson. that did this in hate and fear. well, they havent gotten it yet. they are still stupid. but it is not mine. and it isnt kerry or you...... we are the ones that will continue to enlighten

[seabeyond]

73. this is what i am thinking. this is so fucked up. i want to know what

really happened. we are hearing one side of the story from one person thru out this thing. and the way kerry is perpetrated and dissed regardless what he does, i am really wondering now, what the fuck is up

[LittleClarkie]

75. Let's see. From each angle

He said it -- that's bad (to some anyway, he is the last person who should)
He didn't say it -- that's bad (coward!)
He said it now -- that's bad (too little too late)

I've seen people yell at him for stepping forward (he'll just get in the way of the REAL activists)

I've seen people yell at him for not stepping forward (He caved! :cry:)

He's votes for the IWR. That's bad.
He apologizes and said he made a mistake. That's bad.
He calls for more troops to support those already there who are understaffed. That's bad.
He realizes that no matter what, Bush is going to FUBAR Iraq, so he calls for a withdrawl of troops. That's bad.

He's told to shut the fuck up when he speaks, and called a coward when he doesn't.

I have no idea why he even bothers some days. But he does, bless his heart.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Johnny Velcro. Unlike Mr. Teflon, which was Reagan, EVERYTHING sticks to Johnny Velcro.

Pretty much doesn't matter. It's not what he says or what he does. It's him. Leftover from being Mr. Unpopular during his investigation period I reckon.

[Generator]

71. I think maybe Kerry needs to sacrifice his 2008 chance

It's slim anyway. And go for broke and sacrifice that chance at being president for saving our Democracy. Anybody else think that's a nice idea? Because the great big fucking irony is: HE (or fill in your pet name here) is never going to be president in any way no how unless the voting system from the machines, the registrations, to the voter intimidation is FIXED. And Kerry can still be a senator. He can be more than a President, which FRANKLY people-after eight years of Bush, Reagan and Clinton's mixed bag-isn't it an overrated office anyway? HOW ABOUT being a hero Kerry and saving Democracy!!!??? It would be the best thing you ever did. But I KNOW and after being on DU for almost two years that politics is bullshit-and doing the right thing-damn the consequences never happens.

Let's sit around and have Hillary dream about how she'll be president. I cannot stand those that live in fantasy.

We are officially the country of Denial in the grand party of denial.

[sufrommich]

87. I'll second that.

I am officially praying for a darkhhorse populist type from the midwest.

[Xenotime]

74. Kerry is right...

* stole it like the pugs take everything.

[ReadTomPaine]

76. He responded to this 100x faster than the swiftboat smear.

Interesting priorities.

[brindis_desala]

78. This should worry every Democrat. There was no need

to confirm or deny Miller's assertion. A politic response would have been "the Senator shared his concerns with the author about the irregularities illumined by the GAO report as well as the subverting practices documented by John Conyers and our lawsuit in Ohio.
The integrity of our elections must be unimpeachable."
Any thing less stinks to high heaven.

[seabeyond]

82. the more i think about this, the more i want to know about the reporter

what was this a sandbag job. this is just stinkin on the part of the reporter. i am feeling instead of kerry clearing this up, the reporter has some reflecting time. why did he report this, to make his book more buyable. what was the reporters motive. cause i am not buying his story

[brindis_desala]

88. Why run for cover? Kerry's wife already said the same thing.

Democrats need to take a hard look at their party or this country is finished.

[mousie]

86. could it be that he didn't say it?

maybe the man is just being honest??? Kerry has integrity, ya know!!