Michael Moore owns Halliburton stock?

[TryingToWarnYou]

Anyone checking on this?

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62550

I wouldnt be surprised if this is just the latest lie from the Right, but IF its true, MM needs to FOAD.

[northzax]

1. hey, it's a good investment

and it's not like he talks it up, right? he talks it down. it's doubled in value lately, after all. I wish I bought Haliburton three years ago.

[TryingToWarnYou]

12. Um, maybe Im missing something...

but investing in Halliburton is providing them with support. Matter of fact, I would even suggest that you share some of the responsibility for their actions, both good and bad.

Ill just say this one thing and then back out of the thread for the most part as Im probably going to be flamed to hell, but MM is wrong to own any stock that benefits one of the primary sources of corruption in this administration. He can no longer claim the high ground and this reeks of hypocrisy.

[northzax]

28. just out of curiosity

do you own any stock? any mutual funds? bank accounts? unless you keep your money under your mattress, or are very active in investing in only socially responsible investments, then you too are a hypocrite. I don't mean that in a hostile manner. But technically, buying a savings bond is facilitating deficit spending by the government. There are very few companies in the Dow Jones or S+P 500 that do not have connections to the government or military of some country, or policies that offend someone, somehow.

the DJIA, for instance, includes companies in the Military/industrial complex, pharmaceuticals, tobacco, Wal-mart, and others. participation in the economy supports this whole thing, you basically can't escape it.
here's the list, by the way.

http://djindexes.com/mdsidx/index.cfm?event=showComponentWeights&rptsymbol=DJI&sitemapid=20

[TryingToWarnYou]

35. No stocks or mutual funds...

I do, of course, have a checking/savings account. I also do not own savings bonds.

I see your point and this would even be an issue if this was what Moore was allegedly doing. If he indeed owns shares of Halliburton (or even his foundation as its his name) then its wrong. Heck, anyone can buy a share of XYZ and find out later they do something for the government, but we all know what and who Halliburton is all about.

[northzax]

58. what I find strange about this whole thing

is that I can't seem to find any information about this foundation. Even on his website, I can't find the name of it, or the location of it, to do other research on my own. Even this union leader article never actually names the foundation, I can't find it's mission, purpose, financial assets, giving history, etc. Frankly, this should not be that hard to find. it's strange, either way.

[davepc]

62. If it only exists as a tax shelter

Then its nothing more then a few pieces of paper in a lawyers office somewhere.

According to the article posted the foundation headquarters is his home address. If the CEO of the foundation is Moore himself then i'll be convinced that the foundation is simply a legal entity used to shield assets from taxation.

If such a foundation does exist then with its name the truth of the claims could be proven or disprove almost immediately on the SECs web site.

The other possibility is that no such foundation exists and the entire story is a fabrication.

If the claim in Peter Schweizer book are true then its childs play to show it if you have one or two peices of information.

[northzax]

63. I find many references to his 'charitable foundation'

and those operate under fairly stringent rules. The question is, is this a charitable trust or a foundation? it makes a difference.

and this isn't a new story, it's been around for at least a year. So something should have been reported about it somewhere.

yes, it's easy to track down, all you need is the name.

[Telly Savalas]

80. If I own 1,000 shares of Halliburton stock and you buy them off me

how does Halliburton benefit?

[TryingToWarnYou]

88. Why would I do that?

But anyway, they dont benefit, but I dont think thats what Moore is accused of having done.

[kittenpants]

102. They benefit becaue the demand for the stock is that much greater-

Therefore, their stock price rises, therefore they have more $$$. Supply and demand.

[LoZoccolo]

106. "investing in Halliburton is providing them with support"

:rofl:

If that were true I'd just keep pumping money into my own company.

Or really, any company anyone invests in should pretty much increase in value, because people buy the stock every day!

:rofl:

The only thing you provide by buying the stock in these small amounts is liquidity.

[Snotcicles]

77. It would be kind of funny if he took all the profits and made a movie

about them. It would be like screwing them with there own money.

[benburch]

2. How else can you get the annual report and attend the meetings???

A common tactic is to hold stock in firms you want to investigate!

[Patchuli]

4. That was my thought exactly! nt

[ArkDem]

6. Anyone can get the information in a publicly traded company.

They have to file reports with the SEC which anyone can view.:shrug:

[tx_dem41]

10. Two things...

the information is publicly available.

Secondly, if your guess were correct, he could buy 1 share.

Face it, if true (and that is a big if), this is hypocrisy.

[wrathofkahn]

17. 2,000 shares?!?!?

It only takes ownership of one share to be in the shareholder "club." At present, HAL is trading at $61.77. Even assuming that he bought it at the 52-week low of $35.45, then he still laid out nearly $71K for the stock.


Sorry, but it looks a lot like he's been caught with his pants down on this one.

[earth mom]

47. Maybe it's YOU who wants to see Moore with his pants down..hmm?

:eyes:

[wrathofkahn]

60. Whatever.

:eyes:

[davepc]

25. by going to this web site

http://www.halliburton.com/annualmeeting.jsp

[Lisa]

67. remember those nuns during the apartheid era?

They would attend shareholder meetings and protest, and it was harder for the companies to bar them from the room because they had voting rights.

[Silverbullet]

71. 71K is quite a sum...

...just to be able to attend the meetings and protest.

[Lisa]

81. is the $71,000 estimate cited in the book?

It wasn't in the article (and neither was the exact number of shares). I don't have the book, so all I have to go on is the information posted by other people in this thread. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation may not account for stock splits, etc. (especially if the original purchase was quite some time ago).

Another thing I'm wondering is whether it's possible that one might end up owning stocks in a particular company due to a takeover or merger (even if one didn't buy them to begin with)? I hope the financial experts here can clarify this. I don't claim to be an expert in mutual funds and investments, but I have looked into ethical funds, and even the experts can slip up.

Re: the author's last paragraph -- he states, "I grew up in a rent-controlled apartment, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong that rent-control is idiotic." I would add that it doesn't mean that he's right, either. (If he's arguing that there doesn't have to be a direct link between what people say and what the end result appears to be -- and actually during the article he seems to be implying the reverse -- he can't have it both ways.) Personally I am going to reserve judgement until I have some more concrete statements which can be checked out.

[Silverbullet]

93. Nope

it is based in the stock trading at 35 bucks a share.

[Lisa]

99. has anybody been able to verify the 2,000 shares claim?

Which the estimates are based on. I read the article over again and didn't see it listed in there. Does anyone have the book?

Although, the earlier point made by you and others is a good one. Besides the fact that it would actually be much funnier (and more effective on film) to see Moore try to bluff his way into a meeting based on owning ONE share. (I wonder whether some companies are able to restrict access to those with very small numbers of shares -- knowing how they think, since I used to work with some corporate types -- it wouldn't surprise me if they have gotten wise to these kinds of opposition tactics.)

[tabasco]

96. Peanuts compared to the $8 million Cheney has made ...

from his Halliburton stock, after telling the American people, "I have severed all financial ties to the company."

I wonder if you are as concerned about lying, war-profiteering public officials as much as you are investing private citizens.

[tsuki]

91. My first thought.

[Egalitariat]

94. If he owns 1 share, you're right. Is that the case?*****

nm

[trotsky]

105. Precisely.

Thank you for that.

[berni_mccoy]

3. For crying out loud...

Anyone who owns mutual funds in a 401k probably owns a little piece of Haliburton indirectly.

[Union Thug]

5. I don't know if this is true..but...

IF a corporation's primary responsibility is to it's stock holders, wouldn't it make sense to aggressively accumlate stock into accounts of Lefties and then force change from without?

On the otherhand, without the dirty, murderous policies of corporations like Halliburton, the stock value would drop and we'd all be broke again!

Just sayin'

[ticapnews]

34. That was my plan last year...

Have a bunch of liberal heavyweights (Soros etc) buy Diebold and turn that company upside down and see what falls out. It would be an incredible investment (considering all the other stuff Diebold does) and it would give us insight into black box voting.

[davepc]

48. Halliburton just issued over 50million shares in January

Not counting the number of shares already outstanding.

So those 2000 shares held (allegedly) by Michale Moors foundation sure aren't going to get much in the way of controlling a voting block or influencing board member selection.

[TomInTib]

7. A little reality check here...

Chances are MM does not make his own investment decisions.
That said, any money manager that did not go deep on Halliburton after 2000 theft would have to question his/her competence.
Most people invest to make money.
If you want to spend on personal conviction, give it to charity.

I don't like it any more than you do but that is just bidness as usual. It is not like he donated money to DeLay Legal Fund.

[TryingToWarnYou]

27. Reality check continued

Chances are MM does not make his own investment decisions.

..and never reviews or knows whats in his portfolio?

That said, any money manager that did not go deep on Halliburton after 2000 theft would have to question his/her competence.

Well, see, someone in Moores position (calling out the government for what they do) shouldnt be "going deep" on stock in companies that profit from the war he is complaining about.

Most people invest to make money.

True. However, if you are going to go to great lengths to show the government for corrupt individuals, its best not to own stock in one of their favorite vehicles.

If you want to spend on personal conviction, give it to charity.

..and if you want to spend on Halliburton stock, shut your pie hole about how evil they are :-))

I don't like it any more than you do but that is just bidness as usual. It is not like he donated money to DeLay Legal Fund.

Donating to the Delay Legal Fund would have caused a lot less damage to both him and those that Halliburton is hurting.

[Silverbullet]

72. you are right...

he just profitted from the war.

[democracyindanger]

8. You buy what Jonah Goldberg sells?

Wow.

[TryingToWarnYou]

14. Im not "buying" anything, hence the questions.

Thanks for paying attention!

[democracyindanger]

29. Yep, you're buying.

You probably don't even know who or what Goldberg is.

You're welcome.

[TryingToWarnYou]

37. Im asking a question and it appears as if there is an issue.

You also might want to quit being a jerk. Im aware of Mr. Goldberg. That doesnt mean that everything he says or writes is incorrect. Hell, a broken clock is right twice a day.

[pocket]

9. did he really say

"I don't own a single share of stock"?

I guess technically he doesn't, if it is all in his foundation's name.

[SeattleRob]

11. Yeah right...

If it's Jonah Goldberg saying it, it must be true, huh?


:puke:

[Ksec]

13. A lot of investors dont even know what stocks they own

They leave that up the their money managers. All they care about is if theyre making money

[Tamarin]

21. True,

Bush didn't know he owned a lumber company, LOL.

[Silverbullet]

73. Only stupid ones.

[justiceischeap]

15. And some people buy stocks in "bad" companies so they have a say

My organization does this so we can participate in shareholder resolutions. It's actually quite a savvy idea. You get to stand up at meetings and you have to be heard.

[tx_dem41]

20. He could own 1 share and do that.

And 2000 shares isn't going to get him any bigger voice.

[ArkDem]

70. Gimme a break. The majority shareholders will just go for a

coffee break. No effect at all.

[liberalnurse]

16. I would so appreciate

you taking the time and researching the facts for us. You can get back with us then.

[TryingToWarnYou]

22. I would if I had the time..thats why I asked here.

many folks here are wayyyy more on top of this sort of thing than I could be.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

45. Yeah, let's see the certificate

He must be making some dough huh?

[Mr_Spock]

49. Sionarra Disruptor

:D

[Bridget Burke]

19. Jonah Goldberg was reviewing a "delightful new book"

"Do As I Say (Not As I Do) : Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy"

www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0385513496/ref=cm_rev_next/103-0206775-7168617?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=507846&s=books&customer-reviews.start=11

His other books indicate a sincere love for Ronald Reagan, among other things.

And National Review loves him: www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/schweizer200510250827.asp

[Lisa]

82. If they left the "liberal" out of the title, it would be more credible

An impartial investigation of people on both sides of the aisle would have more weight. If one is going to go after people who point out examples of hypocrisy and claim that they, too, are being hypocritical -- deliberately leaving a whole segment of the population unexamined is itself an example of that very thing. (Not to mention confusing to write about!)

[expatriot]

23. For 1 thing, Moore is not a a government official... Goldberg is trying

to defend Republicans officials from Dean's hypocrisy charges, even if his "charges" that Moore's foundation owns Haliburton stock are true.

[HamdenRice]

24. According to this misleading article, MM DOES NOT own Halliburton stock

Even by the terms of the article, MM does not own stock. It is very misleadingly written.

It says that the foundation that MM contributes to owns Halliburton stock. It also says that the headquarters of the foundation is MM's home.

But the foundation and MM are separate entities.

His foundation should find an ethical or green or socially responsible investment advisor; but that's not the same as MM owning the stock for himself.

[TryingToWarnYou]

30. Ok, but I see it as "His foundation = Him"

Its still not right. We can make excuses for him all day long, but it still looks like hypocrisy. $10 says that within a week he will announce that he is selling off the stock to put the issue to bed.

[northzax]

39. there's a problem, though

as an adminstrator of a charitable foundation, you have an obligation to maximize the foundation's assets. it's why people should not be the directors of their own foundations, or at least not have the financial responsibility for that foundation.

[TryingToWarnYou]

52. Agreed. With that said...

MM should never speak about the ills of Halliburton again.

[davepc]

32. Its called a "tax shelter"

There's a reason why many multi-millionaires and billionares and large corporations almost always have some sort of "charitable foundation" attached to them in some way.

Thats not to say that these foundations cant or don't do positive things, but they don't exist for that sole reason.

They're also a great way to protect assets.

[Loonman]

26. You can't fight the system from the outside

Know your enemy. Sun Tzu was big on that. Michael Moore can do what he wants in my book, he's done helluvalot for the cause.

[Junkdrawer]

31. Moore must have a movie coming out soon...

the long knives are out....

[makeanoise]

36. He does www.wrathofbush.com

katrina

[ghostsofgiants]

85. Is that legit?

His IMDb profile only mention Sicko (2006) and Fahrenheit 9/11½ (2007). And according to Wikipedia it's a potential hoax.

[makeanoise]

103. well you never know

good point!

[jim3775]

33. How many Michael Moore's are there?

Maybe it's the boxer that owns the stock.

[tx_dem41]

42. The boxer is Michael Moorer. n/t

[shance]

38. Lots of activists do it. Then they can attend the Shareholders meetings.

n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

50. KICK!

All it takes is one share to get you your Golden Ticket to a s/h meeting.

[jim3775]

40. Wait wait, since when did we take Jonah Goldberg's claims with

any kind of credibility. Until someone other than Jonah Goldberg says this, I will file this claim under bullshit.

[wrathofkahn]

41. It's not Goldberg's claim

The claim is being made by a guy named Peter Schweizer in a book he has out. Goldberg just interviewed the guy, apparently.

[jim3775]

43. LOL, that looks like a well written, accurately researched book

:sarcasm:

Do they just all write the same damn book about MM, Barbra Streisand and hillary and just release it under a new title every 3 months? Is shit like this even relevant anymore?

[0007]

54. Peter Schweizer is right wing schmuck!

[wrathofkahn]

61. It would appear so...

I'd never heard of the guy before, but apparently he's at the Hoover Institution, which should tell you everything you need to know.

[davepc]

46. All's you need is the name of Michale Moore's foundation

and you can check its filings with the SEC yourself.

http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/webusers.htm

The SEC will have a record of what publicly traded stocks the foundation owns.

[Mr_Spock]

44. Hedging his bets huh?

lol - or is it just a bunch-o-crap?

[Chi-Town Exile]

51. If he owns stock, he can attend the Annual Meeting of the Stockholders

which may be why he has some of this stock. Who knows, maybe MM's planning to attend and cause a little trouble ... especially if they have a question/answer period scheduled during the meeting. I used to work in corporate law and I remember several "regulars" that would attend annual meetings of stockholders for several of the companies I worked for and ask some very interesting questions... It was usually the same people every time. LOL

Granted 2000 shares is a lot, but I wouldn't get all hacked off about it. Nor would I be readily accept ANYTHING Jonah (Asshole MFer)says.

[Joanne98]

74. Bingo!

[Silverbullet]

76. He sure bought a lot of stock..

71 or 72k worth, just to attend and do that, when one share would give you that ability.

[maximovich]

53. Boy... They Are Out In Numbers Today... (nt)

[Tower]

55. After hearing literally thousands of outright lies come out of the

right wing machine over the last decade, I hope you'll forgive me for assuming this claim is either:

A) a total fabrication

or

B) a severely strained mischaracterization of a benign piece of information

Sorry, but this is clearly coming from the right-wing attack machine, and anyone even tangentially connected with that can be safely assumed to be a liar. They wore out their last shred of credibility years ago.

[radwriter0555]

64. 55 replies and no one has bothered to send an email to Moore?

And they're willing to believe a republicanazi over MOORE?

Fascinating.

[mikelewis]

69. No shit!

[TryingToWarnYou]

75. Comprehend much?

You know, I almost dont even ask questions here anymore because of shit like this. God forbid if someone should ask a question about a liberal icon. You didnt even read the original post, or the subsequent comments by myself. If you did, you didnt understand what the question was or its importance. Bottom line is this:

IF the truth of the matter is that Moore owns stock in Halliburton and this fact was brought to light by ANYONE, it doesnt change the end result. Its hypocrisy. As others have pointed out, theres no valid reason to own the stock unless you just want to make money off of it. The other point is this: We dont even know if its true. At this point, nobody is believing anything. We (anyone interested in this issue) are still in the fact gathering phase of this issue. Someone mentioned no one has sent any emails. Well, Im off to do just that if his site is back up because I want to know what the story is.

Im more concerned with getting to the bottom of the questions we have a right to know more than I am party affiliation. I stopped being a Democrat last year and Ive NEVER been a Republican. I think for myself no matter what.

[radwriter0555]

90. I comprehended that almost 60 posts had been made, mostly willing to

believe a republican, without giving Moore, an honorable, true American, the opportunity to answer the allegations.

I find it fascinating that people are willing to speculate rather than ascertain the veracity of a pile of shit coming from a treasonous hack republican.

[TryingToWarnYou]

79. Email sent.

Due to the volume of mail he gets, I really dont expect a response, but if I get one, I will post it.

Mike,

I came across Jonah Goldbergs column today (yes, I know he is a hack) where he mentions that you own stock in Halliburton. Is this true?

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62550

If so, how can you justifiy your comments about this company and their obviously inappropriate behavior and relationship with the Bush administration? If you own stock in this company you enable them and make them stronger. That seems hypocritical to me considering the statements you have made in the past regarding them. If you dont own any stock, you might consider putting something about this on your website so that people know your side of it.

I would really appreciate a response, but I understand that you get many emails a day.

Thanks for reading.

XXXXX

[helderheid]

56. I don't know but his site is down

www.michaelmoore.com

[Chi-Town Exile]

57. It wasn't down when I just went there ... nt

[helderheid]

59. it's back!

:)

[izzybeans]

65. Even so, as the theory goes

the working class will use the tools made available to them by their oppressor and turn it against them. If that money only has a minimal and indirect impact on the making of one of his films. Then so be it.

This is no different than Moby doing a car commercial and donating some of the money to green energy development. Moore is his own movement. If he feeds off the droppings of Halliburton and that nourishes his belly one day closer to the release of his next film, then I say, damn Marx was right. Imagine a bunch of greens becoming majority shareholders in the company. Imagine the power they could wield for positive humane purposes.

Taking the means of the production of wealth in your hands and smacking the jackasses around with it. Nothing more nothing less.

[Silverbullet]

78. And making a little more money...

for yourself does not hurt either. Whats all the big deal, he is so poor he cannot buy a decent razor. This is just the rich repubs wanting to keep ALL the money.

[izzybeans]

86. He's not poor but someone who has made shit ton of money

off of a model that he opposes, and coming from a working class family, well social mobility just doesn't happen this way that often. I used to think it was hypocritical. Now I see at as textbook. I'd wait to see what his justification is before I'd blow the whistle. Until then I could give a rats ass just so long as he doesn't start spending his money in a manner that works against the people he claims to be speaking for. Working class folk.

So I suppose you might see it as a "silver bullet" for his own voice. I see it as the mechanism with which to fight further battles. Give me the right to vote I'll vote you out of office. Give me the money, and I'll use it to campaign against your ass.

[Silverbullet]

92. Nice try.

If that fantasy of it being to carry on the fight were true, why not simply say so.. instead of lying about it and covering it up?

[NNadir]

66. This would explain the Naderism of the 2000 election.

I think Nader's stock portfolio isn't all that pristine either.

[mikelewis]

68. I e-mailed him and alerted him to this rumor....

I'll wait to make any judgements till then, he's earned at least that much

[Kukesa]

83. Be SURE to let us know if you get a response, please. n/t

[Lisa]

84. question -- do corporations allocate votes based on amount of stock?

Halliburton, for example? I know that it's been suggested that 1 share is enough to get you into the meeting and allow you to vote, but I'm curious. (Regardless of whether the Moore/Halliburton rumour is true.)

This article on ethical investing suggests that some companies, at any rate, do this.

"Proxy votes are given to shareholders based on the amount of stock held in a corporation and are used to vote for and against shareholder proposals and to approve certain decisions made by the board of directors."

http://www.macalester.edu/weekly/032604/news01.html

[Swamp Rat]

87. I can't wait to see footage of him at a stock holder's meeting!

:D

[cantstandbush]

89. Why not? Use their own money against them. He is still Michael Moore

The Republicans have used liberal means to make money for themselves. Why should only conservative make money off of Halliburton. The headline could just as easily read:

Halliburton stock fund MoveOn.org.

[Egalitariat]

95. If Michael Moore wanted to profit off of American Tragedy, he would have..

1) made a movie making profits off of the worst school shooting in American History

2) made a movie making profits off of the downfall of his hometown

3) made a movie making profits off of the worst President in American History

4) bought Halliburton Stock

Michael Moore is a very rich man. How did he get that way????

[trumad]

97. Profit makes more movies

did you make a profit today at work?

[Egalitariat]

98. I love profits. The OP wanted to knock MM for owning HAL....

stock. If he bought at the right time, he probably made a lot of money.

I was just pointing out to the OP that Michael Moore has made a lot of money off of American tragedy, Halliburton stock being a part (probably a very small part overall) of the cash that Michael Moore has made.

I can't find evidence of a single buck that MM has made that is unrelated to American tragedy, but as you say, making a lot of bucks means that MM is cocked and loaded to profit from making a movie off the next American tragedy.

[halobeam]

100. well...

Made movies telling the truth about horrible things. Made movies by educating the public with truth.

Very rich, indeed.
Very giving, indeed.
Very unique, indeed.

Takes the heat, to this exact moment, for standing up and speaking truth to power.

I'd LOVE to make my living doing what I most believe in.

[nini]

101. are you equating the movies to the stock

Sorry.. but I'm not getting making documentaries exposing the right wing bullshit on par with the stock

[Fescue4u]

104. Yea, but he gave all his profits to charity and/or the victims

oh wait...

nevermind