May we officially take the pink tutus offa Kerry, Edwards now?

[LittleClarkie]

I'd include Harry, but he wasn't in the Bartcop graphic, despite voting for it too.

Edwards just said he made a mistake in a speech he gave today.

Kerry offered both a mea culpa and a timeline for getting all soldiers out of Iraq starting this Christmas and ending by next Christmas will everone out.

May we now have the ceremonial de-tutuing of the Johns?

[Nikki Stone 1]

1. The tutus are insulted by being attached to a politician, so I say yes.

:)

[GetTheRightVote]

2. I vote yes as well !!

:kick:

[Dr Fate]

3. Admitting it was wrong is all I ever asked for.

Once any DEM can say: "I made a mistake- I should not have trusted them"- then he/she is free-

Now they can now focus on issues and GOP credibility rather than the childish "flip-flopper" and "you did it too" crap the GOP/media throws at them.

The last thing the Pukes want to do is is discuss WHY a given Democrat thinks he was misled and why they think they were somehow not misled.

Reid, Kerry and Edwards are in the clear as far as I'm concerned.

[AlGore-08.com]

4. "Yea! Our guys are only morons!!"

"A safer, stronger America - - unless you're smart enough to pull the wool over our eyes, Mr. Terrorist! So make sure you play nice with Uncle Sam, all you totalitarian governments with atomic weapons - - 'cause if you don't, we probably won't figure out you're playing us for fools!"

Let's celebrate that our guys couldn't figure out that they were being lied to - - by the most dishonest administration in history. Yippee!

:sarcasm:

[LittleClarkie]

6. No. Let us celebrate that they have seen the error of their ways

and admitted their mistakes.

Something our glorious leader can't seem to figure out how to do.

[AlGore-08.com]

21. This is assuming that they have seen the error of their ways

Not just voted for the war when it was popular and issued their mea culpas after it turned very, very unpopular - - not just embraced Smirk when he was popular, and distanced themselves from Smirk when his poll numbers were in the toilet.

And it doesn't hurt the GOP, either. Because McCain or Lott or any other GOPer could stand up and say "Smirk lied to me" too - - and how exactly does that make the Dems better at governing than the GOPers? Or more electable?

And how does it make them better at governing or more electable than folks like Guiliani or Gingrich or any other GOPer who wasn't in Congress, and didn't vote for the invasion of Iraq?

[LittleClarkie]

24. I didn't say that they were more electable

I don't think I've seen either man embrace (bleck) Bush, unlike say, McCain.

Neither was close to Bush when they voted for IWR. They voted for inspectors and to be safe rather than sorry, as Randi pointed out today.

Both are good men, as is your favorite, Gore.

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. You could argue that Gore became more liberal...

... when it was politically expedient for him to do so. Remember Gore, who ran as a centrist in 2000? So centrist, more centrist even than Clinton, that he nominated Lieberman to prove how unlike Clinton he was? And who, after leaving the public sphere, suddenly discovered his inner progressive? If it's your favorite candidate, it's evolution, but if it's not, it's pandering?

You should really think twice before you start blindly flinging shit at other Democrats, lest some of that shit land on you.

[LittleClarkie]

28. Indeed, I don't know why some Gore folk think they have to be Kerry's

mortal enemy as if he were Gore's main competition or something. I admire the direction Gore has taken since the election. I would hope that Gore folks could also acknowledge the same.

[Dr Fate]

14. "Like most Americans, I thought I could trust the President..."

"...But now we just need to make sure we are never misled into a war again...blah blah blah."

It will work- most Americans feel the same way- you are "supposed" to trust the prez.

[AlGore-08.com]

5. Self-delete: dupe

eom

[SeattleGirl]

7. Tutu's off!!!!

:patriot:

[bluedawg12]

8. And put Senator Kerry's Medals of Valor proudly back on his chest.

The man has earned the nations gratitude as a warrior.

Today, Democrats have shown themselves to be men of honor.

[sasquatch]

9. No, they've got a lot of shit to do before they can have their tutu's-

removed.
Harry Reid will be highly commended for his leadership today, but John Kerry&Edwards didn't have a goddamned thing to do with what happened in the senate today. Espeacilly Edwards, JE was sitting in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The last I checked our nations capitol is in Washington DC.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Not a "goddamed thing" huh. You seem to have forgotten something

Kerry's DSM letter to Roberts and the Intelligence Committee this last June calling for EXACTLY what Reid just called for today. I can link it for you if you like.

He did indeed have something to do with what happened today, if only because he called for it FIRST.

On edit: Oh what the hey, here's a link:

http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/lofiversion/index.php/t56326.html

[LeahD]

12. I find it hard to believe that top Dem Senators weren't in discussions

with Reid about this. This surely was planned. The letter from Kerry, Kennedy, Bingaman, etc., to Intel Committee regarding Phase II of the investigation is on Kerry's web site.

[sasquatch]

16. Even so, he still has a long way to go to atone for his mistakes

[ConsAreLiars]

11. Kerry had his chance to take off his pink tutu

during his campaign. He chose to keep it on. Same with Edwards. They wanted to act like corporatist whores, now they can keep the costume.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Can't say as I see corporatists there

Edwards work with the poor would seem to preclude that. And Kerry's continual talk about outsourcing and the like would seem to indicate that the label doesn't fit him either.

[sadiesworld]

17. They're both free traders...

always have been.

Saying Iraq was a mistake is NOW the politically expedient thing to do (just as supporting the IWR was at THAT time).

If they REALLY want to do the brave/right thing and step out on a bit of a limb, they will call for immediate troop withdrawal. But I'm sure that won't happen until all the progressives have done it, the polls are overwhelmingly in favor of it, and it is the politically expedient thing to do.

The tutus still fit pretty well, IMO.

[WildEyedLiberal]

19. Why can't you bother to check facts before making accusation

Kerry voted against CAFTA. How's that for your free trader bullshit?

Kerry is the first major Democrat to propose ANY sort of definite troop withdrawal. I'm sorry it wasn't your favorite Democrat who proposed the plan, but that's life.

Every point you make is factually incorrect. Come back when you have some facts.

[sadiesworld]

27. Kerry, along with several other free trading dems

with an eye toward '08, voted against CAFTA b/c it would have been political suicide not to have (jesus, even Evan Bayh voted against it). I actually give Kerry credit for some honesty here, at least he admitted he would have voted FOR it given a few adjustments.

Does the phrase IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL cause you confusion? See, Kerry and Edwards were supposed to get AHEAD of the curve in my fantasy.

I have the facts, Bucko. Sell it to the naive dem-bots.

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. Who has proposed immediate withdrawal?

No one, and no one will. Not whoever your hero is - no one. It's not responsible policy.

Oh, and don't pretend to know what was going through Kerry's mind when he voted against CAFTA. Your irresponsible conjecture is not an adequate substitute for fact, sorry.

[sadiesworld]

38. My hero?

LOL.

How many more dead=responsible policy?

I know, I know, Kerry's got my back.

I'll be off now to do some research on all those speeches where Kerry has been critical of corporate globalization. :rofl:

Whatever.

The last word/campaign slogan is yours.

[LittleClarkie]

46. You don't remember how in speech after speech he railed against

outsourcing and in the primaries called the CEO's of same "Benedict Arnolds"

Yeah, you go and find those speeches. That would be a good idea. You might be surprised.

[LeahD]

30. Kerry spoke at Georgetown recently and called for

a reduction in troops this year.


http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=952

The way forward in Iraq is not to pull out precipitously or merely promise to stay “as long as it takes.” To undermine the insurgency, we must instead simultaneously pursue both a political settlement and the withdrawal of American combat forces linked to specific, responsible benchmarks. At the first benchmark, the completion of the December elections, we can start the process of reducing our forces by withdrawing 20,000 troops over the course of the holidays.

The Administration must immediately give Congress and the American people a detailed plan for the transfer of military and police responsibilities on a sector by sector basis to Iraqis so the majority of our combat forces can be withdrawn. No more shell games, no more false reports of progress, but specific and measurable goals.

[ConsAreLiars]

20. Kerry//Edwards refused to denounce the war

and ran on a platform defending the invasion and just doing a better job of it. That is why they lost. They defended imperialism, and they served the same masters, regardless of the minor dispute about tactics.
I went to my caucus to stand for Clark, but being the only I one went with Kerry in the hope he would remember to his anti-war roots. But he, and Edwards, never had the courage or integrity to say NO to the war. He will wear his pink tutu as long as he acts to promote the expansion of monopoly capitalism "by any means necessary" (including wars of aggression) and argues that "we" (not including me) need to "win" in Iraq. He has the blood of 500,000 Iraqi children on his hands, and it will take a lot more than a few words to clean them.

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. Even disregarding your ridiculous hyperbole

You obviously didn't read his speech. It refutes pretty much every ridiculous accusation you throw at him.

The only people with blood on their hands are the Bush regime. They orchestrated, planned, and administered this war. If you think Kerry wished us to invade Iraq, you are more deluded than most freepers.

[ConsAreLiars]

31. "deluded" ???

Kerry voted for the war. That is a very simple fact. He endorsed it. He only quibbled about the tactics, not the goal. He is culpable. He has blood on his hands.

[WildEyedLiberal]

36. Well, everything you said is factually incorrect

He voted for no such thing. He maintains that had the IWR been followed, there would have been no invasion. And he is correct. That certainly seems to be disputing the "goal", doesn't it?

Everything you said is categorically false. Completely trumped up and false.

[LittleClarkie]

40. What part of "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" didn't you understand?

He didn't endorse the war. He didn't vote for the war. He voted to get the inspectors back in. Period.

He would not have been in Iraq. He would have been in Afghanistan, going after Bin Laden. Remember Bin Laden?

Unlike his younger self, he couldn't bring himself to condemn the war with soldiers in the field. I think that his friendship with McCain is probably the reason for that. That part of his speech from back in 1971 makes him cringe.

Nevertheless, he's on Cindy's hall of fame page for a reason. Regardless of his stance a year ago, he's on the right track now.

[ConsAreLiars]

43. Maybe he's on the right track NOW.

But claiming the "Iraq War Resolution" was about re-starting inspections is a bit silly. Everyone, even Kerry despite his spin, knew that that vote gave the PNAC war agenda a "yes" vote. Good for him if he has now "seen the light" but he had his chance to tell the truth about Bush and that gang of monsters during the campaign and failed miserably. Better late than never, I suppose, but he has blood on his hands, and he has a lot of penance to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Read the resolution

for it was NOT an authorization for war

Moreover, they were given false information, which is contempt of congress and the senate and a high crime.

Now we are discussing technicalities here, but the IWR is not a green flag for war.

Should he has voted for it? No...

Should the Dems have voted for it.. NO

SHOULD they demand answers? absolutely, and if and when we retake the house and hopefully the senate, we will need to hold these beasts accontable

Now the tutus are not off in my view yet ok... it will take time

[LittleClarkie]

23. Funny. I haven't heard Clark call for withdrawl yet

He wasn't an "out now" guy either.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. As my mom always says, "don't confuse them with the facts"... nt

[ConsAreLiars]

29. Clark said going to war was a mistake.

More than Kerry would admit at that time. Kerry was a wimp, and lost. If he had had the courage he (and we) might have had a better future.

I prefer "out now" to any other short slogan, and Clark's position was only "out ASAP", but Kerry's endorsement of the war's goals amounted to complicity in that crime against humanity.

[LittleClarkie]

32. Wimping out would have been saying what he didn't believe yet

You assume he said what he said for political expediency. It has been a progression. For about a month now I could see him working toward his position as stated last week.

He would not say what he did not believe last year, and it cost him votes. That makes him honest, not wimpy.

He says it now, because he believes it now.

He went to Vietnam beleiving in the cause at the time. He left it believing otherwise.

Just as it was then, it is now. It wasn't an instant thing then. It's not an instant thing for him now either. But he is moving closer to denouncing the war. Last week was a new step. I reckon they will continue.

[ConsAreLiars]

33. You assume he was simply stupid.

He knew the Bush criminal enterprise as well as anyone here on DU. He knew PNAC. He uncovered a lot of that dirt in his early years.

That is why I hoped he would come out during the campaign and tell the truth and not wait until the polls changed. He had a chance to be a leader, as he once was, and he blew it. This is too little, and too late. I don't believe he was as ignorant as you suggest.

[LittleClarkie]

37. No, I'm not assuming stupidity

But he was a "well, shit, I wouldn't have gone there, but now that we ARE there we have to make a go of it" person.

He has almost given up on that stance now, seeing the elections as a chance to say, as he said to Cindy, if we can't accomplish our goal of a free and stable Iraq, then he doesn't want any more soldiers to be killed for it. Hence the timetable.

He knows Bush Co alright. He also knows international crime (see his book, "A New War" for more on that.) I may not always agree with him, but I respect his pov on the issue.

[ConsAreLiars]

39. He voted to "go there"

Why do you claim he would not have "gone there." I heard his speech. He gave all the reasons to be skeptical, then said OK to the monsters who made the war happen. And then stood with them (with minor caveats) during the campaign.

Too little.
To late.
Once a hero, but no longer.
He failed the test when it mattered.

(edit punctuation)

[LittleClarkie]

41. Here you go:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/121003A.shtml

From our esteemed Mr. Pitt.

This is what he voted for:

"This was the hardest vote I have ever had to cast in my entire career," Kerry said. "I voted for the resolution to get the inspectors in there, period. Remember, for seven and a half years we were destroying weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. In fact, we found more stuff there than we thought we would. After that came those four years when there was no intelligence available about what was happening over there. I believed we needed to get the weapons inspectors back in. I believed Bush needed this resolution in order to get the U.N. to put the inspectors back in there. The only way to get the inspectors back in was to present Bush with the ability to threaten force legitimately. That's what I voted for."

In this section, he says his vote was a mistake:

"The way Powell, Eagleberger, Scowcroft, and the others were talking at the time," continued Kerry, "I felt confident that Bush would work with the international community. I took the President at his word. We were told that any course would lead through the United Nations, and that war would be an absolute last resort. Many people I am close with, both Democrats and Republicans, who are also close to Bush told me unequivocally that no decisions had been made about the course of action. Bush hadn't yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew. Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You're God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake."

Here he apologizes:

"The most revealing moment of the entire event came as it was breaking up. Kerry was slowly working towards the door when he was collared by Art Spiegelman. Though Kerry towered over him, Spiegelman appeared to grow with the intensity of his passion. "Senator," he said, "the best thing you could do is to is to just come out and say that you were wrong to trust Bush. Say that you though he would keep his promises, but that you gave him more credit than he deserved. Say that you're sorry, and then turn the debate towards what is best for the country in 2004."

Kerry nodded, bowed his head, and said, "You're right. I was wrong to trust him. I'm sorry I did." And then he was gone."

[ConsAreLiars]

47. Good for him

But too late.

I knew better than to "trust Bush" far before that day. And Kerry had all the info he neded to know better, but still voted to authorize the PNAC operatives to go forward with their plans. He had a chance to denounce them and fight them during the campaign, but a year after it might have made some difference, when the polls have changed, he finally breaks with the PNAC agenda? Nice, I suppose, but he missed his chance to actually make a difference.

I welcome to the side of basic decency, but he took a long time getting here.

[LittleClarkie]

48. Yeah, he is kinda pokey. But he has always been thus.

And I, for my part, never set a deadline for him to get there, so it's not too late to me, but better late than never.

He didn't break with the PNAC agenda, because he was never backing their agenda in the first place. He is not a PNACer. That's just ludicrous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. What part of this was not an authorizatiin to go go war

are you having a problem comprehending?

[Dr Fate]

34. So don't support him in the primaries then...

His position is correct- no more flip-flopper shit- it's time to get down to the issues of how we got into this war.

Kerry complicit? He seems willing to let the chips fall where they may.

[JI7]

15. they never deserved it in the f irst place

and it's pretty sexist anyways.

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. That's like asking if he can have his war record back

He was never a coward. The "pink tutus" were a sexist piece of garbage promoted by small minds and petty hearts, by people who have not a gram of the courage Kerry, Edwards, or Reid has shown in their lifetime.

They never deserved that smearing bullshit to begin with, any more than Kerry "deserved" the Swift Boat liars. I don't care if it's Bartcop or Rove who's spreading the smears - same shit, different asshole.

[Richard Steele]

42. No. Edwards is an empty suit that blows wherever the wind takes it.

And bear in mind that I am from NC!

A real leader would have spoken the TRUTH
as soon as it was TRUE, not waited until
B*sh's numbers were safely in the 30's for 2 months.

Edwards was falsely described as a "one-term senator";
I call him a NO-TERM senator.
He never did JACK SHIT as a "senator" except look pretty
while he ran for another office!
He never even PRETENDED to care about doing his job as Senator,
just spent his time focus-grouping a run for the White House.

He may have built a fortune in the private sector
with brains and long hours, but as far as "public service"
goes, he was less than a ZERO.

FUCK John Edwards, and the photo-ops he rode in on!

[depakid]

44. It took a while for them to earn them so...

I think it'll take a lot more doing before we can offially retire the tutu's (especially for Reid- the one photographed "in absentia").