Fitz can't get at the underlying crime *because* Libby is lying

[Lex]

and obstructing.

Fitz said as much at the press conference.

If someone is lying and obstructing, then the investigators are prevented from figuring out what happened in the crime itself.

That's why perjury and obstructing are serious charges, because they thwart the investigation of the underlying crime.

The media is making it seem like there was no underlying crime. That's nonsense. Fitz just couldn't get to it *because* of Libby's lying and obstructing.

[Vincardog]

1. No shit it is not over

[tuvor]

2. A lot of us seem to be forgetting that, and need to be reminded.

So I'm nominating.

[Quixote1818]

3. Bingo! This should be the Dem's talking points

It's simple, short and easy to understand! We should e-mail this to Howard Dean and a shit load of Dem's.

Please nominate this! Word needs to get around.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. The media is stupid, when it's not full of shit

It's hard to know when it's one or the other.

Pay no attention to the media. Just wait for the next pronouncement from Fitzgerald - if there is one - because that's the only legitimate source of information.

In the meantime, enjoy Libby's arraignment on Thursday.

You know what that means, don't you?

That's right.

MUG SHOT!

[Lex]

7. Mmmmmm. Mugshot goodness.

I just wish SOMEone in the press would point out that the lying and obstructing is what may be keeping Fitz from bringing a case for the underlying crime.

*sigh* I over-expect.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Well, Rovian Blood Lust can be a powerful virus

But, what you do have to keep in mind is that the underlying law that Fitzgerald is charged with investigating is very, very badly drafted, and, consequently, very, very hard to prove.

I've never thought that anyone would be charged with outing Plame. Not what people want to hear, but it's a really impossible law.

But, you're right that this Libby indictment is simply a detour on the road towards the conclusion of the investigation. Libby (I keep wanting to type "Liddy," but that's just nostalgia on my part) was the roadblock, and now what he does is what determines how the rest of the investigation progresses.

Will he make a deal and testify against his pals in the White House?

Will he go to trial?

Will he get a Presidential pardon before either of those things happen?

My bet is on the pardon.

[Quixote1818]

5. NOT just Libby but EVERYONE is lying!!!!! nt

[shamrock]

8. Fitzgerald will

get to the bottom of it. Wait and see.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. This is an important point and it is not being made often enough!

[Quixote1818]

11. I agree, see my post above

This needs to be the Dem's talking point as pulls the rug right out from under the Rights talking points.

[dooner]

10. Fitz described it as having "sand kicked in my face"

It obscures the facts about the crime, making it impossible to see what happened. I also heard Lindsey Graham on the radio yesterday, he said something interesting.... he thought Fitzgerald was keeping a Grand Jury open in case something important gets said during Libby's trial that implicates somebody else.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but duh... During the trial, Cheney, Rove, etc. could all get called to testify publicly. So we should hear some very interesting questions and answers, right?

[TahitiNut]

16. If there's a trial, I'll contribute $25 to DU - If there's not, will you?

There ain't no way Cheney, Rove, Rice, Hadley, Bolton, and Tenet will be allowed to testify under oath on Court TV. It'd make the OJ Trial look like Traffic Court.

No way. No how. Scooter's going down unless he sings like 12 fat ladies.

If he sings, his wife and kids will have a tragic accident - and Scooter will commit suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head with a deer rifle.

Scooter's going down. I'm betting he eventually pleas nolo contendre -- he won't even plea guilty.

[dooner]

24. I think I'd lose the bet...

You are probably correct that there ain't gonna be no big revelations during Scooter's trial.

These characters under oath in public being asked embarassing questions is just too much to hope for.

Scooter will most likely admit guilt and call it a day. While he's at it, he'll probably claim credit for some thing he didn't do, just to get others off the hook. An Ollie North type "hero".

[MazeRat7]

12. Exactly... apparently the talking heads weren't listening

I heard that plain and simple.. yet to hear the MSM tell the story "Libby did not out a CIA agent because that is not what he is charged with"....

But what do you expect, they have the comprehension of a gaggle of 6 year olds.... *grrrrrr

MZr7

[Quixote1818]

13. I just sent this link to the Ed Schultz show

We should all let every Air America show in on this talking point. Dem's need to be saying this in unison.

[Lex]

14. Thanks.

I'm a Big Eddie fan.

Sometimes the main points of what Fitz said get bogged down by the idiot cable-tv pundits.

[Just Me]

15. They are too "scripted" to actually fuckin' LISTEN!!!!

I'm sorry,...but, it's true. I wish we could toss all the airheaded pundits and "experts" out on their arses.

Obstructing justice IS covering up or diverting from committed crimes. Moreover, Libby is definitely not the only one engaging in such behavior. He's just the only one securely pinned to the wall AT THIS TIME.

[gratuitous]

17. Ding, ding, ding! Winner!

That's it exactly. When no one is telling the truth, or you can't get two true statements in a row, you indict for lying to the FBI, lying to the grand jury and obstruction of justice.

We'll see if the prospect of spending some time in jail daunts Scooter or not. If not, if he keeps lying and doesn't budge off his story, he'll go to jail for a while, but the investigation could well be over. But if Scooter doesn't feel like taking the whole fall all by himself, he just might begin remembering the truth about this whole affair.

But if he is the only one Fitzgerald gets, I don't think the judge is going to be inclined to leniency. Keep in mind that Fitzgerald has already presented evidence to a judge, who ordered subpoenas for reporters, something that is used in only the most extraordinary circumstances. Judges don't like to be lied to.

[nashville_brook]

18. this is a really simple and wonderful point --

for everyone flailing about "just one indictment" LOOK HERE. he's got to put the pressure on where it belongs. remember how long it took in the pokey to get miller to talk...and that was only after libby absolved her.

[sandnsea]

19. And Bush knew who committed the crime

Either they have been lying to him and he doesn't care; or he's been lying to us. There is no wiggling out of that fact.

[Festivito]

20. 20-30 years in jail to protect CON bosses.

Well, maybe that beats the death penalty for treason during time of war.

[Justice Is Comin]

21. I heard a guy on Rita Cosby

say he's looking at three to three and a half. They must have drugs in the green room.

[RedOnce]

22. A Defense Attorney's very interesting post

on Daily Kos suggests 24-30 months for the current charges, longer if he is later charged with revealing a covert agent's identity

"Since Libby has no criminal history. He's at level I. The sentencing table puts Level 17, Criminal History I at 24-30 months."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/31/124027/48

[Lex]

23. I hope Libby decides to tell the truth eventually

and cut a last-minute deal with Fitz.

Or maybe he'll go to jail for a couple of years to protect Cheney. I hope not.