Clark: I'm no rabbi's son

[dkf]

http://fpp.co.uk/online/03/10/Wesley_Clark121003.html

GENERAL Wesley Clark is not descended from a long line of rabbis, as he had once claimed.

The Democratic candidate said he had been given bad information before giving a speech at a New York yeshiva in 1999 claiming that he was the "eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son" of a rabbi.

Clark, who repeated the rabbi claim as recently as January <2003> in an interview with The Forward, says he still is proud that he is descended from Jews on the side of his father, a cohen, or member of the priestly caste.

[grasswire]

1. oh well...

...Kerry got over the "Irish" fuss. But the VRWC is going to use this against him.

[0rganism]

10. Funny how the media seemed to accept bush jr. as a "Texan"

and Cheney as a "Wyomingan", without question.

[KittyWampus]

2. So His Father IS A Cohen

The article SAYS: Clark "still is proud that he is descended from Jews on the side of his father, a cohen, or member of the pr

Cohens -which pass from son to son through the ages begnning from the bloodline of Aaron, Moses' brother?

Cohens- the Hight Priests who are allowed into the holy of holies?

So Clark might have just gotten the terms wrong, since he didn't grow up Jewish, and mistakenly said "rabbi" instead of cohen?

Jeebus!

"he still is proud that he is descended from Jews on the side of his father, a cohen, or member of the priestly caste."

The only reason I know what "cohen" means, as a woman who grew up Presbyterian, is becasue I study Kabbala.

Differenting between Rabbi and Cohen is pretty estoeric stuff- I wonder if alot of secular Jews would know the difference.

[KittyWampus]

4. Cohanim and Genetics- Modern Day Studies

Many biblical scholars have scoffed at the prophetic validity of a future Jewish temple because there are
special requirements about genetic lineage’s of the priests that may be impossible to confirm. According
to Jewish tradition, only males from the direct line of Aaron could serve as priests in the holy temple of
God. This tradition began when Moses brought his brother Aaron before God to be anointed as the first
high priest to the Israelites. Historical documentation confirms Aaron’s lineage was stringently followed
from the first temple of Solomon, through the Jewish exile in Babylon, and continued past the destruction
of Herod’s temple by Titus in 70 AD. These priests called Cohanim, persist today and are charged with
performing all religious rituals for the Jewish people.

While today’s Cohanim continue to endure as the group charged with implementing the rites of the
Jewish faithful, it has always been an issue sparking vigorous debate whether the members of this
priestly order were in fact direct bloodline descendants of Aaron. Now due to scientific advances in DNA
analysis, the existence of a common genetic marker in today’s Cohanim can be investigated to
determine if Aaron’s lineage has been preserved.

Since the Cohanim priesthood is only transferred through males, the confirmation of their bloodline was
believed to rest in the Y-chromosome. Y-chromosome DNA analysis has proven useful in constructing
patrilineal genealogies in the past because it is passed down exclusively through males and most of the
genetic material is noncoding (does not cause life-threatening mutations). If the Cohanim have
succeeded in preserving their bloodline, they should have a higher frequency of common genetic markers
(called haplotypes) in their Y-chromosomes than the general Jewish population. The scientific results
indicate:

The general Jewish community possesses certain genetic haplotypes that are absent in
most of the Cohanim 1.

More surprising, the Cohanim possess a single haplotype that is absent in most of the
general Jewish community2.

This single haplotype (called the Cohen modal haplotype) was then tested on the Cohanim in two major
Jewish communities. The results indicate that the Cohen haplotype is strikingly prevalent and similar in
both communities; which strongly suggests the Cohanim all descended from a single male common
ancestor. Mutational analysis also suggests this common ancestor lived about 3000 years ago
approximately when Jewish tradition believes Aaron was anointed to the priesthood 3.

There have been other "dispersed tribes" which follow ancient Jewish traditions who have attempted to
claim a blood lineage to Israel. A black African clan named the "Lemba" and the "Bene Israel" from India
have made this claim and have submitted their DNA to analyze for the "Cohen modal haplotype.

The Lemba are a black race of people from northern Africa alleging their ancestors descended from
Israelites. While they do practice a curious number of Jewish rituals (such as dietary laws), their
assertions to Jewish lineage have been rejected in the past. Several Lemba males were tested for the
Cohanim modal haplotype in a recent study. Results indicate that ~50% of the male Lemba leaders
contain the Cohen gene. This is a striking discovery since only ~10% of the general male Jewish
population carry this Cohen haplotype 4.

The "Bene Israel" are located in India and considered to be a very curious and obscure community. The
legend of the "Bene Israel" (translated Children of Israel) goes back to 175 BC when their Israeli
ancestors supposedly were fleeing the persecution of Antiochus Epiphanes by escaping to India. Except
for possessing numerous Indian customs, the "Bene Israel" remarkably observed Saturday as their
Sabbath. The "Bene Israel" were also recently tested for the presence of the Cohanim haplotype.
Results confirm they had a greater than 50% occurrence of the Cohen genetic marker 4.

It has now been demonstrated that the priestly order of Cohanim has a common genetic marker that is
characteristic of only ~10% of the general Jewish population and completely absent in gentiles. While
this is not a direct confirmation that the Cohanim specifically descended from Aaron, it does
demonstrate a separation and preservation of this priestly group that has persisted for over 3000 years. It
is fascinating that the Bible independently confirms the Cohen priestly line existed in the past and is
expected to continue in the future, ready to fulfill any prophetic destiny that Almighty God has for them.

References

1.
Hammer, M.F., K. Skorecki, S. Selig, S. Blazer, B. Rappaport, R. Bradman, N. Bradman, P.J. Waburton, M.
Ismakklowicz, 1997. Y Chromosomes of Jewish priests. Nature 385: 32-35.
2.
Thomas, M.G., K. Skorecki, H. Ben-Ami, T. Parfitt, N. Bradman, D.B. Goldstein. 1998. Origins of Old Testament
priests. Nature 394: 138-140.
3.
Ref. 1.
4.
Ref. 2.
5.
Ahmed, R. Z. July 20, 2002. India’s children of Israel find their roots. The Times of India.


Patrick H. Young is a resident of Central Ohio. He has a Ph.D. in Chemistry and been employed in
industry as a research chemist and materials scientist for over 17 years. He has a website at
www.creationists.org/patrickyoung.html and his email address is [e-mail].

[Tinoire]

22. Fascinating- I've been following the esoteric aspects

of this for a while now. I did not know all that stuff about the Genetic markers. That is fascinating.

[REP]

6. Yes, The Difference is Well-Known

It was also pretty apparent that his father was NOT a rabbi because he was married to a Gentile who did not convert. Again, pretty obvious to anyone who's even nominally Jewish, but not to Christians; in an earlier post I said that all Ka'hans are descended from a long line of rabbis because it was easier than explaining Jewish priests.

He's also a mamzer, due to the circumstances of his birth. So I am!

[hedda_foil]

8. Sorry, but your premise is incorrect.

Specifically:

"Differenting between Rabbi and Cohen is pretty estoeric stuff- I wonder if alot of secular Jews would know the difference."

No Jew who has had any religious education whatsoever, at home or at a synogogue, knows exactly what the difference is between Rabbi and Cohen (Kohannim). It's not at all esoteric. What IS esoteric is the Kohannim claim to priestly status, since according to Jewish law, priests have no role outside the Temple in Jerusalem, which has not existed for 2000 years.

In other words, the Kohannim haven't had any priestly duties at all since the destruction of the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE. And priests never overlapped with rabbis, who have always been "teachers" not priests. For the most part people named Cohen are just people named Cohen. Unless they are Orthodox (a very small minority of US Jews), they very seldom marry other Cohens (which is required to maintain the esoteric status of the priestly lineage in the unlikely event that the Temple is restored by Jews and run by members of the Kohannim.)

There are certainly rabbis named Cohen (and its many derivatives)but that has nothing to do with their name.

The only thing that is obvious is that Clarke got his information about his father's name from someone who had as little knowledge of Judaism as you do, and probably wasn't Jewish. He ran his mouth on something he obviously knew nothing about and didn't take the time or effort to check out.

On edit to clarify the description of the Cohens in the genetic marker article posted above:

These priests called Cohanim, persist today and are charged with
performing all religious rituals for the Jewish people.

While today’s Cohanim continue to endure as the group charged with implementing the rites of the
Jewish faithful ...

The Cohanim are only charged with implementing rites to the "Jewish faithful" in the nonexistent Temple in Jerusalem and nowhere else (since by definition there is only one Temple and that one Temple must be on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem). They have no other functional duties other than to marry a Jewish woman (preferrably the daughter of another Cohanim).

[KittyWampus]

9. Thanks For The Education DU'ers!!!!

:hi:

But what's a mamzer? :)

[REP]

18. A Bastard

Any child of a Ka'han father and a non-virgin (or a non-Jew) is a mamzer. There is some disagreement over whether the mother just being a Gentile makes the child a mamzer or just not Jewish (Judaism is a matrilineal religion); some say the father's status is enough.

[REP]

20. Not Quite

They have no other functional duties other than to marry a Jewish woman

They 'must' marry a virgin; all Jewish men 'must' marry Jewish woman (but not necessarily a virgin) as Judaism is a matrilineal religion. A Jewish man + a Jewish woman = Jewish child; a Ka'han + a non-virgin woman = Bastard child.

[hedda_foil]

23. Sorry, you're correct, of course.

And Jewish virgins as hard to find these days as any other kind of virgins.

[Darranar]

26. generally...

Those with the last name of Cohen are Cohanim. But not all Cohanim have a last name of Cohen.

[Tinoire]

27. I'm confused

but I thank you for that post which I had to read 4 times to try to understand your main point and I'm still not sure I'm following it. Is it that Clark made a mistake and is not a true Cohen or is it only that the Cohens themselves serve no esoteric function until the Temple is rebuilt. The last point I already know to be true which is a reason I'm uneasy about the announcement, its wording and the place he made it. I am closely watching to see just how the Fundamentalists are going to react to this.


http://www.cohen-levi.org/whos_who/whos_who_among_kohanim_and_levites.htm

[dragonlady]

53. Just to set the record straight

Modern-day cohanim do have a few ritual duties. In some synagogues they perform a special priestly blessing for the congregation (and the hand gesture that is traditional for this was borrowed by Leonard Nimoy as the Vulcan salute, as he has written about many times). Also, Jewish law requires that a woman's first-born male child must be symbolically redeemed from the biblically mandated service in the Temple. This is a nice little ritual in which the cohen asks the father whether he wishes to pay a small sum (usually about five dollars) and redeem his son. (They always say yes.) The cohen give the money to charity. Cohanim are also honored with being called on to give the first blessing when the Torah is read in the synagogue.

[KoKo]

3. The transcript on this Site of Amy Goodman's interview with Robert Fisk

is an excellent read for those who want to skip the article about Clark, which didn't make much sense, to me, anyway.

Thanks for the Goodman link, though!

[Tinoire]

5. So now he's finally realized that this is going to be a liability

with many aware but non-fundamentalist Christians and Muslims who are determined to wage a spiritual battle against the fundmantalists because of certain prophecies.


It was definitely a faux-pas to seem as if he were announcing a special arrival.

[REP]

7. I Suspect

that many Jews (and others) have pointed out the obvious to him - his father was most definitely not a rabbi if he was married to a Gentile who didn't convert! As post #2 describes, the difference between a rabbi and a Ka'han is not readily apparent to most non-Jews, and saying that he comes from a long line of Jewish priests is technically correct - all Ka'hans do (theoretically, at least).

[eileen_d]

11. I don't think Clark claimed his father was a rabbi

It seems to me he said he had ancestors who were rabbis. And it seems he may have been technically incorrect (I don't have any knowledge to claim otherwise)

But it's all good for the GOP - another isolated statement from Clark's past for them to bounce through the RW media echo chambers. Shades of "Gore invented the Internet." Wonder when it'll show up on Drudge?

[Pastiche423]

12. Are you calling

all people that do not support clark, GOP?

[eileen_d]

13. No, I'm not.

That would be stupid. I'm just saying I bet this tidbit will be picked up by the RW media. I don't know anything about the source this comes from.

[Tinoire]

32. It came from a very respected source

Forward first broke the story because it was based on an interview they did with him and Forward is one the most respected, progressive Jewish publications in the US. I think it's also the oldest.

It's also information that's mentioned in several placed

http://www.cohen-levi.org/whos_who/clark_w001.htm
http://www.cohen-levi.org/

who also conduct Temple Studies: http://www.cohen-levi.org/temple_studies/temple_studies.htm

Info also from The Hamodia: Jewish Orthodox weekly newspaper published in three separate editions around the world: USA, UK and Israel, covering a wide range of topics of interest to the Jewish Community.
- which also conducts Temple Studies

http://www.hamodia.com/

The Jewish Telegraph Agency:

WASHINGTON, Sept. 17 (JTA) — Raised a Southern Baptist who later converted to Roman Catholicism, Gen. Wesley Clark knew just what to say when he strode into a Brooklyn yeshiva in 1999, ostensibly to discuss his leadership of NATO´s victory in Yugoslavia.
"I feel a tremendous amount in common with you," the uniformed four-star general told the stunned roomful of students.

"I am the oldest son, of the oldest son, of the oldest son — at least five generations, and they were all rabbis."

The incident could be a signal of how Clark, who became the 10th contender in the Democratic run for the presidency on Wednesday, relates to the Jews and the issues dear to them.

Apparently Clark, 58, revels in his Jewish roots.

He told The Jewish Week in New York, which first reported the yeshiva comment in 1999, that his ancestors were not just Jews, but members of the priestly caste of Kohens.

<snip>

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13221&intcategoryid=3

[dkf]

14. Here's the quote.

Latest contender for president
comes from long line of rabbis
By Ron Kampeas



WASHINGTON, Sept. 17 (JTA) — Raised a Southern Baptist who later converted to Roman Catholicism, Gen. Wesley Clark knew just what to say when he strode into a Brooklyn yeshiva in 1999, ostensibly to discuss his leadership of NATO´s victory in Yugoslavia.

"I feel a tremendous amount in common with you," the uniformed four-star general told the stunned roomful of students.

"I am the oldest son, of the oldest son, of the oldest son — at least five generations, and they were all rabbis."


http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13221&intcategoryid=3

[eileen_d]

15. OK - then he did flub up.

Bad move on Clark's part. I just hope it doesn't get blown out of proportion. It's not the same as, for example, telling lies to the American people in order to gain support for war on Iraq.

[Pastiche423]

16. Lies are lies

Just like when he told the world he was a Democrat on September 2, 2003. That was a lie. Or when he told the world he was running for president on the Democrat ticket, yet he had registered w/the FEC and filled in his affliation UNK. That was a lie too.

[eileen_d]

17. Obviously, you just want to fight

Find someone else to antagonize.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pastiche423]

24. Call it what you want

but lying is lying, no matter how you want to avoid it.

[retyred]

40. Clark said: He had been given bad information and clarified it

That does not make him a liar any more than if you had you been given information that was wrong and you repeated it, unless of course after learning the truth you decided to let the truth stay hidden.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
So I Built This Web Site
Read The Book

[Pastiche423]

44. What "bad information" are you referring to?

He knew damn well he wasn't a registered Democrat on September 2, 2003. He also knew damn well that when he registered w/the FEC to run for the presidency, that he filled in his affliation as UNK!

Are you saying he din't sign the FEC forms, that someone else filled out the forms?

[retyred]

52. Read the original post

He was refering to being from a long line of Rabi's as misinformation.

Clark never claimed to be a registered Democrat when he wasn't, he said he was a Dem candidate.

[Pastiche423]

54. No, you read the post I was responding to

clark DID claim he was a registered Democrat, but then his staff claimed there had been a "problem w/the paperwork".

Moreover, clark stated he registered w/the FEC as a Democrat, which was a lie. The document has been displayed here at DU to prove it.

clark is an expedient democrat, not a representative of the Democratic Party.

[Tinoire]

56. Did you book-mark that by any chance?

If so, please send to me. Thanks

[retyred]

61. Show me

where Clark said this: my understanding is that it was someone in his campaign that was mistaken as to when Clark registered and how he registered.

[Pastiche423]

63. clark din't know he wasn't registered?

Wesley Clark Announces ... Finally

By Suzi Parker, AlterNet
September 18, 2003

Amid red, white and blue balloons and recycled Draft Clark signs, Wesley Clark announced his run for the White House. "My name is Wes Clark. I am from Little Rock, Arkansas. And I’m here to announce that I intend to seek the presidency of the United States of America," he told a crowd of about 1,000 supporters at a boys and girls club here.


It was about time, as many people were tiring of Clark's indecisiveness while he showed up on as many television shows as possible without even declaring a political party. On a sunny warm fall day in the political landscape owned by Bill Clinton, the coy general, who officially declared himself a Democrat only two weeks ago, became the hottest name in politics.


Wesley Clark: Still Not a Democrat

October 1, 2003

Turns out the Presidential candidate hasn't yet changed his party affiliation as a registered independent in Arkansas

It may come as a surprise to some of his supporters, but Democratic Presidential candidate Wesley K. Clark still hasn't joined the Democratic Party. According to the Pulaski County (Ark.) Voter Registrar's office, the former four-star general remains a registered independent. Even though he has been a declared candidate for the Dem nomination for two weeks now, he has yet to officially change his party affiliation.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/oct2003/nf2003101_0874_db038.htm

[retyred]

70. Nice try!

Read your bold, Clark said he was a Democrat, not that he was registered as a Democrat, Where's the lie? In Arkansas you don't have to register to vote.

A Clark campaign spokesman at first told BusinessWeek that the former general had in fact updated his voter registration to reflect his newfound status as a Democrat. But a call to the Pulaski County Voter Registrar indicated otherwise. When asked to explain the discrepancy, campaign consultant Mark Fabiani says Clark hadn't yet had time to register as a Democrat.

[Pastiche423]

71. What part of

officially declared himself a Democrat do you not understand?

[retyred]

74. What part of

Not having to register as a Democrat in Arkansas don't YOU understand? By SAYING he was a Democrat but not being registered YET as a Democrat does not make it a lie.

God I love it when the "Bait Trolls" come out to play.

Show me where he lied about registering as a Democrat!

[Tinoire]

76. Post 75 - unfortunately posted at the same time as your denial

It is time some Clark supporters STOPPED accusing old, established, respected DUers whose words were never before called into question, of falsifying information.

[Tinoire]

75. Read this from October 2

We asked Clark (quoting now from our own tape): “How long have you been a registered Democrat?”

Clark answered, “About, um, oh, I think it was maybe the third of September. Prior to that I wasn’t anything. In Arkansas, you don’t register for parties, you vote in primaries and, of course, I voted in the Democratic primary.”

http://www.theunionleader.com/granite_show.html?article=27079

There is one more quote from Clark himself to that exact same effect. Let me know if you want me to dig it up for dis-believing eyes.

[Eloriel]

60. Oh, c'mon, Pastiche, dear

He's not LYING. He's just FLEXIBLE.

:evilgrin:

Actually, I begin to think Clark doesn't know who or what he is.

Eloriel

[Pastiche423]

62. Flexible?

lol! Is that something like being a chameleon?

Crap, he's nothing but a DLC product. You would have thought he'd have practiced his lies lines better while he was being "coy", though, don't ya think?

[IranianDemocrat]

73. Clark doesn't know who or what he is?

Clark made the chocie to serve his country, unlike Dean who's money got him a out of the draft so he could go skiing and get drunk all year.

[KittyWampus]

21. Edited Out Negativity

:)

[hedda_foil]

25. Oh for God's sake.

A. We're not talking about Dean here.

B. Dean mis-spoke that one time. Of course he knew he hadn't voted against it and he wasn't trying to tell people he had. (Only Republicans like Reagan and smirk are that dumb.) It was a one-time-only accidental slip of the tongue which some oppo researcher (probably Kerry's) seems to have unearthed and you know it. (I wouldn't have responded to this nonsense but you seem to be trolling it on multiple threads today).

C. Clarke didn't mis-speak ... he didn't understand what he was talking about when he tried to use his father's heritage to his advantage before an Orthodox audience. (I have no idea WTF was up with his audience, who apparently didn't realize that Clark's mother was a shiksa, which isn't well-received among yeshiva-types who are hyper Orthodox.)

[leetrisck]

29. Does anyone know if Clark has actually spoken

about this at all - I have never even heard it mentioned in any of his public speaking and I have no way of knowing for sure if he's ever even mentioned this - it's more like so and so and so and so said this. I don't care what he is or isn't in relation to this.

[KittyWampus]

30. Hedda-I Edited Out The Negativity-Sorry

Pastiche got off my ignore list somehow and got my goat.

Unfortunately, I didn't edit my post fast enough.... :(

I am giving myself a time out of posting for a day.

[hedda_foil]

69. It's alright, cryingshame. Thanks for doing that.

I couldn't edit my response to your post until it was too late.

[REP]

31. "Shiksa" Is A Little Offensive

Most people use it, not knowing that it is a slur. Gentile is preferable.

[hedda_foil]

34. Nah ... it's yiddish for a gentile woman.

Now "nafkeh"! ... That's a slur.

The tantes and bubbies who used to call shiksas who dated Jewish men in their families nafkehs were really slurring hard.

[fla nocount]

66. hedda, you're a lovely person, did anyone ever tell you that?

Well, they should.

[hedda_foil]

68. Wow! Thank you fla nocount!

[Tinoire]

36. Is the only reason you say

his mother was a Gentile is because he was raised as a Southern Baptist? My understanding, but I have to find the source to see if I remember correctly, is that he was only raised as a Southern Baptist after she re-married and he was adopted.

The Orthodox are really paying attention to this. They ran the story in Hamodia back in January 2000.

This is getting very interesting for people who follow prophecy.

[Pastiche423]

38. Which prophecy?

I am a shiksa that married a Jewish man. I am also an agnostic and confused. :crazy:

[Tinoire]

45. I would have to search and search! If you want I will

Fundamentalist Jews and Christians are waiting for the Temple to be rebuilt and dedicated. It can only happen with a Cohen, who are the descendants of the High priest Aaron. All of this so far is biblically based. I am not sure how all of this fits in totally.

Ancient Christian prophecy has it that the AntiChrist would be half-Jewish. There are also many mainstream Christians who are looking out for this. If I can ever find the old extra-biblical prophecies, I'll PM them to you. I am not well versed enough to tell you which ones and who they were by. These aren't things most people are religiously grounded enough to follow closely anymore.

This was discussed at DU back in May 03 but the link is taking people to the wrong threads (from 2 months later). Google still turns them up but you can't get to them. They're the May posts by BeHereNow and later continued and polished by Will Pitt about George Bush having announced the arrival of the AntiChrist the day he quoted the Isaiah passage on that carrier.

Democratic Underground Forums
... May-04-03 03:47 AM, 197. The Isaiah quote from ****: BE AFRAID!!! BeHereNow,
May-04-03 12:49 PM, 225
www.democraticunderground.com/.../ duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID70&mm=1360&archive=yes - 71k - Supplemental Result - Cached

May-02-03 09:14 PM, 14. Isaiah Quote (thread 2) - Here;sa link. Let's
get some perspective. ...
www.democraticunderground.com/.../ duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID70&mm=1160&archive=yes - 71k - Supplemental Result - Cached

May-05-03 00:26 AM, 6. George W. Christ (for BeHereNow, about Isaiah)
- help? ... www.democraticunderground.com/.../ duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID70&mm=1600&archive=yes - 71k - Supplemental Result - Cached

http://www.google.com/search?q=+site:www.democraticunderground.com+Democraticunderground+Isaiah&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N

You might enjoy this article but it has nothing to do with the prophecies themselves- just the dangers of the Isaiah crowd.
The Isaiah Crowd- And How Their Neo-Christianity is Killing Us
http://www.liberalslant.com/lwt060203.htm

[Pastiche423]

47. Thanks, Tinoire

But you don't have to do a search. I just wanted a small synopsis of what you were referring to. Following religious tales makes my brain hurt, so I try stay away from them. :-)

[grasswire]

41. prophecy?

Is he the anti-Christ? I seem to recall that Jerry Falwell said the anti-Christ is alive today and is Jewish.

[Tinoire]

46. I have no idea...

really, no earthly idea... I am watching the reactions in the religious circles on this one and watching how the pieces fit. But I'm afraid all of this would be waaay over my head. I am not religiously grounded as I should be nor do I have a good grip on prophecy. I used to know people who did but no longer and whatever notes I had, I lost long ago.

[Nikia]

57. I thought of this

I found know as much about Clark as I would like so maybe it is a bit slanderous to wonder if he is a candidate for being the anti Christ. Revelations say something about him forgetting the faith of his fathers. That part would fit if his father is Jewish. He would be in the position to have great power in the world if he were to become president. The samething was said about the Russian Vladamir Zhirinowsky and I haven't heard about him recently. We shouldn't really go suspecting all people of Jewish heritage who do not practice Judaism.

[hedda_foil]

65. No, Tinoire. His mother is actually gentile.

Apparently she didn't even tell him that his real father was Jewish. She was (I don't know if she's still alive) always a Christian. Her name was Veneta and she was a native of Arkansas.

On edit: Here's a cite -- a reprint of a Scripps-Howard piece I found at Capitol Hill Blue.

http://chblue.com/artman/publish/article_2978.shtml

Wesley Clark: What's the buzz, tell me what's happening
By BILL STRAUB
Scripps Howard News Service
Sep 5, 2003, 22:43

<snip>
A Little Rock native, Clark was the son of a Baptist mother and an Orthodox Jewish father, an attorney and Democratic Party activist. Clark's father died when he was 5 and he was raised a Baptist, unaware of his Jewish heritage until he was in his 20s.
<snip>

If his dad was really Orthodox, whose family took the Cohannim lineage seriously, they must have sat shiva when Benjamin married Venetta. Little Wesley would have been considered a bastard by that branch of the family ... which would have been a damned good reason for Venetta to take Wesley home when her husband died and to keep him away from his Jewish relatives.

Note: I'm saying this as a reform Jew.

[Tinoire]

78. lol- I would never equate the words in that article to you

You don't even need that disclaimer!

Now question though:

From what I know according to the Torah tribal affiliation and family genealogy can only be traced through the person's father (the patrilineal in accordance with Exodus 28:4, 29: 9-30, 30:30, and 40:15 ; Numbers 36 ; Genesis 49:10, I Kings 11:4, and I Chronicles 17:11-19 .)

In everything I've read, a priest (Kohain) is someone who is born to another priest. If your father is a priest, then you are a priest- though I know it's not that limited because there are ways to become a Kohain without being born one.

---

Halacha, Torah Law, specifies that membership in the Jewish people is derived through the mother, while tribal membership is determined by the father.
http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_cohens_heritage/who_is_a_cohen.htm

((keeps posting and reading))

And interestingly enough, in my search to possibly make a technical point- I see that you are correct because:

Aharon, his four sons and all his descendants were designated by God to be Kohanim forever. Genealogically, a Cohen is:

A direct descendant of Aharon haCohen
One whose father is a known Cohen
One whose mother is not disqualified from marriage to a Cohen. (See http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_cohens_heritage/marriage_qualifications.htm">Marriage Qualifications)

A Kohen may not marry any of the following women (in addition to those women forbidden to all Jewish men):

A Convert (giores) – a women born of non-Jewish parents, though she was converted Halachically to Judaism

A Zona – a Jewish women who had intimate relations with a man whom she is forbidden to marry, e.g. a non-Jew.

A Divorcee (gerusha) –a women who was married and divorced in accordance with Jewish law. This includes a women who was previously the Kohen’s own wife.

A Chalala – a Kohen’s daughter born to a women who was forbidden to him (e.g. a divorcee) or a Kohen’s daughter who had relations with a man forbidden to her (e.g. a non-Jew).

A Hostage (shevuya) –a victim of non-Jewish captors, kidnappers or the like.

This is a rabbinical prohibition while the other restrictions are from the Torah

<snip>

A son born to a Kohen and a woman forbidden to him is a chalal and his status as a Kohen has been profaned. Likewise, the children of a chalal are no longer treated as Kohanim.

<snip / then the lawyer's sentence ;) )

As these matters are critical and sometimes difficult, it is necessary to consult a qualified Rabbi for advice.

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_cohens_heritage/marriage_qualifications.htm

----

Interestingly enough, right after I typed that, I went back to 'The Center for Kohanim' site


The Center for Kohanim- founded in 1985 by Rabbi Nachman Kahana, scholar, community leader and author of the Mei Menuchot commentary on Tosafot on the Talmud- was established to promote identity and knowledge among Kohanim the world over, and increase their feelings of awareness and commitment to their heritage as Kohanim.

The first level of knowledge is that of practical Jewish Law as it applies to Kohanim. A further level is to encourage a future orientation towards fulfilling the ultimate tasks of a Kohen, including knowledge of the Temple Service. Rabbi Yaakov Kleiman becomes co-director of the Center in 1995.
http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_center/the_center.htm

MEET THE TRIBE!

The Cohens and Levis are an extended family with a glorious history. We were chosen to be communal leaders, teachers, prophets and spiritual healers and to serve in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. From the times of Moses and Aharon, since the Exodus from Egypt, we Cohens and Levis have maintained our traditions and exalted role among our people in the world at large.

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/welcome_to_the_tribe.htm

And an absolutely fascinating, rivetting timeline of the Kohain here:
http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/timeline_of_kohanim_and_levites.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In the end Hedda, I am a bit confused because the same people tauting those rules, who say they are the Kohain, have him posted as a Kohain of special interest. Remember I told you my father's best friend was a Kohain with whom he used to have great theological discussions? I am going home in 2 weeks and am going to ask him to explain this all. It is NO wonder the Haredi are studying ALL day if this is the kind of stuff they have to know!

[hedda_foil]

87. That's interesting, Tinoire.

Marriage to a non-Jewish woman is definitely proscribed to Cohanim. Any far-out sect that tries to justify the son of such a union as qualifying under the ancient religious laws as a Cohanim himself is coming very close to blasphemy (by ultra-Orthodox standards). This is non-negotiatible. But, given the peculiarly close ties between a couple of infinitestmally tiny pseudo-Orthodox sects (those who have an interpretation of the coming of the Messiah that is very oddly, and "unorthodoxly" in accord with that of the fanatically zionist xtian fundies) I wouldn't doubt that some splinter group is actually promoting Clarke as the founder of the next Temple in Jerusalem.

[Tinoire]

33. I'm not sure which is the lie

the first statement or now this new one.

[Bertrand]

79. Neither

The Democratic candidate said he had been given bad information before giving a speech at a New York yeshiva in 1999 claiming that he was the "eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son" of a rabbi.



Slink away, like usual.

[Tinoire]

80. Bad information by whom

You really have to pity Clark and all these mis-fortunes. All these little 'faux-pas' make one wonder about the Rhoads scholar bit.


You're real cute with your final comment but... too bad we're not slinking away. Comments like yours only serve to energize!

By the way, I'll just guess that the new spin will be that his grand-mother was off her rocker since the information came from her:

My grandmother told her children, 'Never forget your roots -- not only are you Jews, but you are Kohanim…'"
Wesley Clark
HAMODIA Jan 28, '00 Page 20

http://www.cohen-levi.org/whos_who/clark_w001.htm

No wonder they need Fabiani and Lehane, the 2 biggest spin meisters and scandal warders, on board! I don't know Bertrand, maybe someone should keep Clark away from interviews :shrug:

[Bertrand]

82. First

you make a claim based on the inital link, which clearly shows that the claim you made of him being a liar isnt true. You then, because you cant defend yourself with the information presented, find another link to deflect from the initial validity of your claim.

That said, the second link does nothing to the original premise of Clark being a liar, but instead shifts the conversation over whether his grandmother was correct. Also, your third sentence is interesting since you attempt to innoculate yourself from the possibility of someone questioning the grandmother by saying it's "spin."

[Tinoire]

85. A little tip

because I see that reading comprehension may not have been your best subject. Follow the posts with the flow of the conversation. Follow the sub-threads to which posts are made so you won't get confused and think the author said, A then B then C equals D. It is easy with the DU software design- you just click on the "Response to Reply ##" link in the upper right corner of each post and it will take you up to the post being answered. If you do that, you'll understand the flow and not look silly.

The paranoid logic displayed just helped me understand whence the support. Is it paranoia that makes some crave a sort of a Savior General? To protect terrified people?

[Bertrand]

86. Condescension aside

You clearly imply that you believe Clark to be lying about the current topic:

I'm not sure which is the lie, the first statement or now this new one.


since the post you were responding to was relaying two incidents that he/she believed to have been clark lies, both past tense:

Just like when he told the world he was a Democrat on September 2, 2003. That was a lie. Or when he told the world he was running for president on the Democrat ticket, yet he had registered w/the FEC and filled in his affliation UNK. That was a lie too.

Because your response wasnt consistent with the message of the original post, it appears pretty obvious that you were responding to the subject title of the post, which was "Lies are lies"




You even propose a conspiracy theory to fit your hypothesis:

So now he's finally realized that this is going to be a liability with many aware but non-fundamentalist Christians and Muslims who are determined to wage a spiritual battle against the fundmantalists because of certain prophecies.

It was definitely a faux-pas to seem as if he were announcing a special arrival.

[dsc]

28. He should have done his research

but so what. Sorry this is just a goofy story with no real use.

[drfemoe]

35. He is

a paid spokes-model ..
I wish Michael Moore had drafted him to run for American Idol instead of President of the United States.

[Tinoire]

37. It may seem goofy to you maybe but it won't be goofy to millions

of Fundamentalist Jews and Christians who are awaiting a descendant of the High Priest Aaron to re-dedicate the Temple. Nor will it seem goofy to 6 million Muslim and Arab voters in this country or to mainstream but traditional Christians who have a diametrically opposed belief to the fundamentalists' about this.

We must never ever minimize the power of religious beliefs in politics.

[dkf]

43. Is that what this is all about? Armageddon or some such thing?

Jeez. Scary.

[Tinoire]

48. Again, I am not sure

but it truly bothers me that every single candidate except Kucinich and Sharpton (to a lesser degree) has paid such excessive court to AIPAC this year to lay out their credentials. The grand-mothers and all being pulled out of the closets at the precise time that Falwell, Robertson, Van Impe and the Jewish Fundamentalists are acting up does concern me.

Also the money that Christian Zionists have versed into genetically engineering the Red Heiffer this ceremony will need and shipping them to Israel. Not to mention the several trips that Sharon's fundamentalist settler Ministers made over here to make sure the Christian Right understood what was at stake and the ones that people like Tom Delay and other fundamentalist politicians are making over there to meet with these Temple believers.

Again, it doesn't matter whether you or I believe this, what matters is those who do and what they will do with that belief. I am not sure what I believe, I only know that as a mainstream Christian who does believe in God, the Bible, and end-times of things as we know them, that if this is to happen, now is the time and that people need to be vigilant but not afraid. Hope that made sense. These are not things I like to dwell on.

[dsc]

64. according to the article he said this

in 99 when he couldn't possibly have been thinking of running. And as to the fundamentalist thing if he is a Cohen then that is good enough for that to kick in (I think).

[Tinoire]

81. Good catch! n/t

[Kool Kitty]

51. Thank you.

That's what I thought, too. Who cares?

[morebunk]

39. Precisely why I can't vote for Clark

He's a PNAC in Dem clothing.

[eileen_d]

42. And you got that out of this article?

Whatever. I don't see how being incorrect about one's Jewish heritage makes you PNAC. Maybe I need to visit that PNAC web site again... lol

[Tinoire]

49. No- from other articles, threads, and posts.

I agree with the previous poster.

[IranianDemocrat]

55. Clark is PNAC???

why because he's in the military?

against the war?

pro choice?

against the bush tax cuts?

against free trade?

pro environment?

pro affirmative action?

speaks extremely critical of the Bush administration?

Speaks critically of the Republican party?

SPECIFICALLY SPOKE CRITICALLY OF PNAC?!

[Tinoire]

58. One of these days

I'm going to go back to my old post (re-pasted below) and update it with all the revelations about some other associations that have since come to light.

This is really no laughing or trivial matter to me. I am very sorry that I cannot in good conscience endorse Clark- even if I am one of those military people that the Clark campaign was counting on.


Clark's statements that the West Bank and Gaza are inside of Israel are alarming, especially in these times, and totally PNAC for which the war against Yugoslavia was step 1. His proposal that we delcare war on Al-Queda and go into ANY country to knock of the terrorists is totally PNAC and no different than Bush's philosophy. His support for Israel's latest foray into Syria as a 'pre-emptive" measure and support for action against Iran is pure PNAC. You could say that he evolved but I am unwilling to believe in any evolution that took place between March 2003 when he praised the entire PNAC crew during that Salon interview (while trying to figure out which party to run with) and now. I am really sorry because we basically get along but this is my fight- my fight for Democracy and progress and I do not take it lightly.

Since more people seem to be asking about this, I am going to work with a few DUers to put together a thorough post documenting all of Clark's AEI/PNAC associations and statements.

Once again, sorry this is your candidate but he Clark is nothing more than the DLC's replacement for Lieberman.
--------------------------------------------

Interestingly enough, I have never said that Clark was a Republican- the DLC is not that stupid but I posted plenty of evidence that he was not a Democrat over the last few weeks- this to the FURY of die hard Clark supporters but the evidence was there in plain site- down to his announcement earlier this month that he had finally decided to register as a Democrat- but that, Clark supporters said, was a lie. Turns out it wasn't.

Here's my thread about Clark having considered running on the Republican ticket, sourced and linked, to include the lavish praise he made about the neo-cons between 2001 and up until 2003 in that famous Salon article.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=423043#426125

I have no intention of getting into pissing contests with people right now. This is simply too important to me. Our country is on the verge of fascism and the PNAC crowd is not going to go away lightly.

After a lot of research and discussion with fellow DUers who did extensive research into the neo-cons, PNAC, AEI and have been following world developments closely, a possible conclusion is this:

they will go after him with insider information. Can we believe for a minute that Rove won't bring out the information about Clark's calls to him and all the information they have in the meticulously kept dossiers they have on all high-ranking military officers and lobbyists? Clark is their insurance. They get him the Democratic nomination and then they sabotage him. In the off chance that he actually wins, he's one of them anyway. One of them with less ties to the religious right which is going to abandon Bush to some extent anyway.

It may make people angry but I would rather they be angry now and at least look at the information openly and make up their own minds instead of listening to Talking Point Memo news. Lots of good decent people fell for and voted for Bush because they refused to listen and refused to look- partisan pride... We too can be guilty of the same thing.

Here is a little but you should do your own research and form your own conclusions.

A good starting point is the
Markle Foundation The Task Force on National Security in the Information Age of which Clark is still a member of the according to their home page.

Notice Markle's pride in their work on Homeland Security Page and all their fascinating reports re HOMELAND SECURITY, NATIONAL ID CARDS/DOCUMENT FRAUD/WIRETAPS/PRIVACY and ANALYSES OF NEW LEGISLATION, THE PATRIOT ACT, NEW FBI GUIDELINES, etc...

I don't get the warm tinglies about them. Nor do I get warm tinglies about
Zoe Baird, Markle's President being a current member of the Technology and Privacy Advisory Committee, which advises Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld regarding the Department of Defense's use of information technology to fight terrorism. and who has been an advisor to the Department of Defense defense transformation effort in the Bush Administration.

Some of Markle's fine work has really impressive titles such as Task force: Homeland Security Dept., not FBI, should shape info priorities There are a ton more.

task force on national security Oct. 7 called for the new Department of Homeland Security to take the lead in shaping domestic information and intelligence priorities to inform policy-makers, rather than the FBI.

The recommendation was made in a report issued by the Markle Foundation's Task Force on National Security in the Information Age. The report, "Protecting America's Freedom in the Information Age," calls for a networked information technology system that shares information among local, state, regional and federal agencies.

People outside Washington, such as police officers, airport officials, FBI agents and emergency room doctors, do most information gathering; therefore, the government needs to use information technology to harness the power of this widely distributed information to protect Americans against terrorist threats, said Zoe Baird, president of the Markle Foundation and co-chairperson of the task force. Baird served the Carter administration as associate counsel to the president.

"Much of the information we need is local. Rather than creating a Washington-centric model, we need to create a networked, decentralized system," Baird said at a press conference unveiling the report at the National Press Club in Washington. Task force members were set to brief the president's homeland security director, Tom Ridge, later in the day.

For me this warrants more scrutiny and open discussion.

** The Brookings Institute describes itself in the following terms:

"A private, independent, nonprofit research organization, Brookings
seeks to improve the performance of American institutions, the effectiveness of government ..."

You can find out more about the Brookings Institue and its associations on the PNAC page here: http://www.thefourreasons.org/pnac.htm

A little look at their Board of Trustees (for those who care) reveals a mass of CEOs and other impressive business figures, sprinkled with reps from academia, and also including former and current heads of the World Bank.
------------

New Task Force Aims to Protect Nation with Better Information and Technology

The Markle Foundation in alliance with CSIS andThe Brookings Institution launches information and technology working group to improve national security

New York, NY and Washington, DC, March 6, 2002 – An independent, multi-sector task force to determine how information and technology can enhance national security was announced today by the Markle Foundation in alliance with the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) and the Brookings Institution.

The task force will make recommendations regarding:
· Technologies that enable the more effective collection and sharing of information in response to new security threats
· Aligning governmental structures and rules with the more information-intensive approach needed to counteract new security threats
· Balancing the expansion of information’s role in national security with safeguards for civil liberties – particularly in the privacy realm
· Strategies for deploying information more effectively for law enforcement, intelligence and homeland defense
· The role of the private sector in designing and implementing an information-based national security response, and the level of collaboration between private and public sectors

http://www.markle.org/news/_news_pressrelease_030602.stm

-----------

I'll also note before going to work, that the Brookings Institution is not that Left and this has been discussed at DU in the past.


There is little question about the source of PNAC's influence. When it was founded in 1997 by two prominent neoconservatives, William Kristol and Robert Kagan, its charter, which called for a U.S. strategy of global pre-eminence based on military power, was signed by men who would become the most influential hawks in the Bush administration, including Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and Cheney's influential national security adviser, I. Lewis Libby.

"Thus, among the signers who have never before been associated with PNAC, are Robert Asmus, a former deputy secretary of state for Europe; Ivo Daalder, a prominent member of Clinton's National Security Council staff; Robert Gelbard, a former U.S. ambassador to Chile and Indonesia; Martin Indyk, Clinton's ambassador to Israel; Dennis Ross, his chief adviser on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations; Walter Slocombe, Clinton's top policy official at the Pentagon; and, most important, James Steinberg, Clinton's deputy national security adviser who now heads foreign policy studies at the influential Brookings Institution."
http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2003/0303pnacletter_body.html


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=270701
----

Then you've got Acxiom and there's been a ton of talk about them at DU lately because of the Jet Blue scandal. Clark is still on the board of Directors to this very day and I believe it's in this thread that I posted his 2003 Lobbyist papers where he was lobbying for some rather interesting things- just look at the documents. If you use the link at the end of that post, you can do a search for the previous years' papers to see what he was lobbying for. Anything else you want to look at let me know. I'm not out to crucify Clark but I am out to make sure people who support him do so with open eyes and that those on the fence have the right information to make their choice. I will honestly tell you that after everything I've found that I would vote for Lieberman before voting for Clark. I have a ton more but I am extremely tired. If you want more, PM me with the link to this thread and I'll come post it.

General Clark is also licensed as an investment banker. He joined Stephens Inc. as a consultant in July of 2000 and was named Managing Director – Merchant Banking of Stephens Group, Inc. from March 2001 through February 2003.
http://www.directmag.com/ar/marketing_wesley_clark_keeps/
--
THE CORPORATE LIBRARY
RELATED PARTY ARCHIVES

From the 2003 Acxiom Corporation Proxy:

<snip>

During the past fiscal year we had an agreement with an affiliate of Stephens Group, Inc. ("Stephens"), whereby we retained the consulting services of a former Stephens employee who is also one of our board members, General Wesley K. Clark, in connection with our pursuit of contracts with various government agencies. Under the agreement, commissions were payable to the Stephens affiliate on revenue from government contracts attributable to Clark's efforts, which commissions were to be offset against an annual consulting fee of $300,000. As of March 1, 2003, General Wesley K. Clark resigned from Stephens and founded Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a business services and development firm. As of that date we replaced the agreement with the Stephens affiliate with an agreement with Wesley K. Clark & Associates for the consulting services of General Clark. Under the terms of the new agreement, Acxiom will pay Clark an annual retainer of $150,000 plus commissions for new business obtained through Clark's efforts, which commissions will be offset against the retainer.

<snip>

http://public.thecorporatelibrary.net/Transactions/rel_ACXM_2003.html

Sep 18 2003

While Clark is maintaining his position on Acxiom’s board of directors, he did terminate his consulting agreement with the company upon announcing his candidacy. That contract was valued at $150,000 per year, said Ingram.

<snip>
http://www.directmag.com/ar/marketing_wesley_clark_keeps/

[KittyWampus]

67. There Is A Seriously Unbalanced Current Flowing Here

I have 2 brothers who are paranoid schizophrenics, had a boyfriend who went over the edge with "freemason run the country" stuff and have known people who studied gemetria and weren't grounded enough to deal with spending heavy duty time w/ abstract thought.

Some posts here on DU concerning Clark seem to display an alarming tendency to connect countless dots into a web of conspiracy that eventually solidifies into a "Boogieman".... such as "Clark is a PNAC Trojan Horse" and now insinuating "Clark is the AntiChrist".

These thought forms are most likely generated from people who either have great difficulty with authority figures or suffer from feelings of powerlessness.

I have worked for extrememly rich and connected people and I've also socialized with them. They have their own social and professional networks, for sure. Just because one may FEEL unable to be a part of such circles is mainly an illusion... as is the notion that ANY of us are actually unconnected to one another.

We all have networks and associates... that doesn't mean that we are
merely the sum total of all the people that we come in contact.

The Goal in Kabbalistic studies is to bring Light into the Dark places.

I have no doubt in my mind that Wesley Clark is such a person... one who can light flames in the hearts of those who pass his way.

There is a Glyph that depicts what I've seen from some DU'ers in regards to Conspiracy. It speaks to Issues of of Authority and Power.
It's Esoteric Principle is Ignorance.

Look closely and you will see in the following Glyph, that the larger figure's Right hand is (ironically) raised in the Cohen's Symbolic Gesture of Blessing. Note that the atmosphere is Dark- the torches cast no Light.

Look at the two people chained to the throne...

The Inner Meanings of this glyph are these- the chains can be easily removed (they fit loosely around their necks) and the Dark Figure is a product of your imagination. He is acutally the Archangel Uriel- as seen by the Ignorant.



Robin From "The Hamptons"

[Tinoire]

83. Interesting post and cute veiled points

but why waste your time :shrug:

Many Christians, both fundamentalist and mainstream, view the Kabbalah as inherently evil because it is divination. If you care about the justifications for that belief, which is also shared by many religious Jews, just google away to your heart's content because there are pages and books and tomes written on the matter. It all goes back to "who is the bearer of light" and "who is the great deceiver"?

Very interesting post by the way but I do not propose a theological or religious discussion here. It's not my point, and frankly I have no interest in getting bogged down in it. Religious people already know what they believe because they've been preparing for these days for a long time- nobody is going to change anyone's mind or beliefs at this late date.

[eileen_d]

88. Who is really "the PNAC candidate" - Clark or Bush?

Seriously. If you don't like Clark's associations, fine. If you think he is the DLC replacement for Lieberman, and that turns you off, fine. I appreciate the fact that you have actually done research on Clark, even though I don't agree with your conclusions.

But saying "Clark is the PNAC candidate" is simply slapping an incorrect label on a candidate you don't support. Bush* is the PNAC candidate.

[ShaneGR]

50. Who cares

Seems very trivial, like whether Al Gore said he invented the internet (Which he didn't).

Sounds like right-wing propoganda to me.

[roguevalley]

59. In some ways its like thinking your family came over on the

Mayflower and finding out they didn't. Everyone said so but
then it wasn't true. Who are you going to set on fire? The
person who is acting on what has been told to them or the
teller?

Small thing, this. How he handled it and how he felt about it
are more important to me. He's very open, our General and a
good and decent man. No problem for me if his family information
is garbled. How many of you here, short of Mormons, can tell
your family history -all of it- back five generations.

Mazel tov anyway, General.

[regnaD kciN]

72. So, Clark isn't the son of a Rabbi...

...but Bush is still a son of a...well, you know...

:evilgrin:

[PlanetBev]

77. Oh, God, I can hear it already

The media whores and The White House will jump all over this saying, "See, he's just like Al Gore, exagerating and making up stories". This is the kind of thing we don't need.

[andym]

84. he confused rabbi with "cohen"

He obviously confused being a rabbi with being a"cohen." He probably did not know much about judaism at the time he made this statement.