UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v LEWIS LIBBY, Now what for Dems??

[bluedawg12]

"By contrast, views of the Democratic Party are mostly unchanged; today 49% have a favorable opinion, while 41% are unfavorable, about the same as in July of this year and just slightly below the reading in December of 2004"-- Pew Poll October 25, 2005

So Fitzmas has come and here we are.

Shrub and the repugs are not seen favorably, but the Dems remain unchanged in the polls.

Their loss may or may not be our gain.

What do we do to take advantage of this extremely troubled time for shrubco and how do we turn this into something meaningful for Democrats and America?

The Fitzgerald investigation will not solve the problems facing our nation, it only highlights the corruption, but in and of itself, it is not part of any solution other than raising awareness in people. Some people. Others will remain brain washed.

How do we get our message out?

Who do we get it to? The cult followers of shrub and the radicalrightwing or do we forget them and focus on our base, our strengths, and get out the vote and get NEW voters from that large portion of our apathetic nation that never bothers to vote.

It's good to follow Plame-gate, but do we need to do more?

What do we do now that the indictment is in, Harriet is out, a new SCOTUS nominee is imminent, real wages are dropping, jobs are going over seas, cheap foreign labor is flooding our job market here at home, the war in Iraq continues to suck the lives of our young troops, and our coffers, and unemployment is actually higher than since 1993?

Where do we go from here?


http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=261

Public Sours on Government and Business
DeLay, Rove Viewed Unfavorably
Released: October 25, 2005

>>Summary of Findings

Americans express increasingly negative views of a wide range major institutions, reflecting strong discontent with national conditions. Over the past year, ratings have tumbled for the federal government and Congress. And it is not just Washington institutions that are being viewed less positively. Favorable opinions of business corporations are at their lowest point in two decades

Allegations Affect GOP Leaders

The latest Pew survey finds that for the first time in his presidency, slightly more Americans say they have a generally unfavorable opinion of George W. Bush than a favorable opinion.

The 2008 Hopefuls

While public views of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Tom DeLay are deeply partisan, a number of Republicans have maintained a generally favorable reputation across party lines...

Among possible Democratic candidates, former Sen. John Edwards has the greatest crossover appealÈÎ he is viewed favorably by 85% of Democratic voters who can rate him, 68% of independents, and 48% of Republicans. Sen. Joe Biden is viewed favorably by 42% of Republicans who are familiar with him, but only 56% of Democrats. Fewer than half of registered voters knew Biden well enough to give a rating.

By comparison, Sens. Hillary Clinton and John Kerry remain highly polarizing figures.

Views of the Parties

For the first time since the heart of the controversy over the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, more people have an unfavorable than a favorable opinion of the Republican Party (49% unfavorable, 42% favorable, including 24% very unfavorable).

The most recent drop in favorable ratings of the GOP is seen mostly among independents and Democrats. But there has also been a significant decline among white evangelicals and Catholics as well.

By contrast, views of the Democratic Party are mostly unchanged; today 49% have a favorable opinion, while 41% are unfavorable, about the same as in July of this year and just slightly below the reading in December of 2004<<

[Punkingal]

3. First of all,,,,

There is a whole bunch of them who need to say they were wrong about voting for the war in Iraq. That would be a good start. And they have the perfect excuse...they were lied to by this Cabal. (Of course, they could have come here and found out the truth.)

[SammyBlue]

That too, but it's more of how to get the message out

And my attitude has always been: Use the same tactics against them. Pull crap right from their play book.

Instead of pandering to American's intellect (HAHAHAHAHA!!!!), do what they do: Pander to their emotions. We have facts, reality, their record and their lies on record to use against them. They have innuendo. They expect us to remain intellectual. . .we can do that, and adopt their playbook against them.

As far as I am concerned, they have declared war on us. . .time to return fire, or we will forever be lost. Our country and our future is at stake.

[Punkingal]

13. Yes, I know what you are saying.

Somehow I just can't see any of our "front runners" doing that. We need some new blood. I naively thought Kerry would be a match for Bushco, and then he sat on his hands while they destroyed him with the Swiftboat stuff. And of course, there's always the media....those a**holes could tell people the truth once in a while, instead of just letting the Bushies say whatever they want and never calling them on it.

[Erika]

10. We need John Edwards

He will restore hope. W is gloom, doom, and fear, while transferring our taxes to corporate globalists.

[AX10]

12. Wes Clark 08'!

[bluedawg12]

14. Send this card out to every American at Thanksgiving>

It's time for a change: your sons belong at home, in school, at work, having dinner with their families.

Decent pay, job security, American security from sea to sea, and bring them home alive and safe.

Merry Chritmas-

Your working brothers and sisters over at the Democratic Party!

JOIN US!

[bluedawg12]

15. Why don't we have a bounce from all of this?

If we can know that, we can figure out how to get some positive polling as predictive of voters coming our way.

[ray of light]

2. you don't have a bounce because it's still very early

you also don't have a bounce because all gov't are considered 'unethical and corrupt'.

Read the insults about dems on democratic undeground alone! I mean...this is the place of Democratic supporters and if I were looking up info...it'd be a great place to see some dem bashing.

[bluedawg12]

8. ray of light- are we suffering from guilt by association with the repugs

are all polls seen as corrupt?

If so we must quickly carve a niche as the honest party of working men and women- not corporate welfare barons and east coast intellectual think tank elite.

[ray of light]

18. we must quickly carve a niche as the honest party of working men and women

EXACTLY!!!

Right on!

[serryjw]

16. Was anything questioned about Clark?

It's all about name recognition. The growth the the 'independent' tells us it is NOT about OUR party but rather the candidate and the message. We NEED a labor message for 2008,The working class is hurting and if we don't get the right message and candidtae be don't deserve to win..........F*CK DLC Corporate candidates

[bluedawg12]

1. did not mention General Clark, yet! . Corporations down in poll!

Just "possible" candidates.

Edwards and Guilliani were at the top of their party in this one time poll.

BTW- Guilliani was still higher in favorability than Edwards- I take that to mean the post 9-11, he's an honest man, syndrome.

We do need a labor message.

Check out these stats:

>What may be more striking, however, is the growing public discontent with business corporations. Just 45% say they have a favorable opinion of business corporations, while the same number express a negative view. Since the mid-1980s, solid majorities have consistently expressed positive views of corporations, but just 49% did so in July. The erosion in perceptions of corporations has come among most demographic and political groups. Oil companies, which have historically been far less popular than business corporations in general, also have lost ground with the public. <

[bluedawg12]

4. Another Pew poll: Economic Pessimism Grows, Gas Prices Pinch

Now this is favorable news!

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=257

>>Economic Pessimism Grows, Gas Prices Pinch
Independents Back Democrats on Most Issues, Congressional Midterms


Released: September 15, 2005

Summary of Findings

A summer's worth of bad news, culminating with Hurricane Katrina, has taken a toll on the publics mood, particularly when it comes to views of the economy and energy costs. The publics economic expectations, while hardly robust in the spring, have grown much more negative. Nearly four-in-ten (37%) think economic conditions will be worse a year from now, up from 24% in May and 18% in January. At the same time, higher energy prices are now having a major impact on Americans' daily lives, with 70% saying they are driving less to save money on gas<

-And this is huge FOR DEMS--

>As was the case in the spring, Americans are largely critical of the overall performance of both major parties. But the Republicans face greater political dangers. In an early test of strength on next year's midterm elections, Republicans trail by 52%-40% among registered voters. Equally important, Democrats are favored on most major issues. Even on terrorism, which consistently has been a Republican strength, the GOP's advantage has narrowed. <


>Economic Perceptions


More Americans hold a pessimistic outlook on the nation's economic prospects than at any time during Bush's presidency.

By two-to-one (37%-18%), more believe the economy will be in worse shape a year from now than believe things will improve. In August 2004, just 9% said they expected the economy to worsen over the succeeding 12 months. That number doubled to 18% in January, and has doubled again (to 37%).
<

***Democratic Party Issue Advantage


The Democratic Party is widely seen as the party better able to handle a wide range of policy issues.

In addition to favoring the Democratic Party on its traditional strengths such as reforming the health care system and protecting the environment, pluralities today also pick the Democrats to handle energy problems, Social Security, and education. On the important issues of the economy and Iraq, the public is more divided, with the Democrats holding only a slight edge. And on the issue of ensuring that the government can handle major disasters, 40% favor the Democrats, while 34% choose the Republicans. ***

This is the stuff where we should be kicking ass and taking no hostages.

It sounds like the people are angry at the government, but they are starting to see the Dems in favorable light when it comes to issue by issue analysis.

[serryjw]

5. Wait...By 2008

MORE people will lose their health benefits including retirees and MORE pension will be flushed down the toilet.

I have told this story before: I did a political focus group 2 years ago where a 65 year old man retired from a fortune 50 company was saying how he and his wife were fine with their personal investments, corportate pensions AND PAID HEALTHCARE UNTIL THEY DIE! I have thought of him many times wondering HOW they are doing now.

[bluedawg12]

6. serryjw- how do we become the party of solutions that people turn to

because they sure as heck are informed about things, looking at this report, they are watching things closely, and they are very worried about the economy, see reply above.

How do we become branded as the trusted, stable, honest party for American workers and families- real solutions for real people not those corporate welfare barons?

[serryjw]

11. We lost that privilege

Find me the next FDR.....NOT DLC. Have you forgotten that Clinton signed Nafta?.....Hiliary is worse. Remember with the internet their voting records are fair game...nothing is any longer a secret. That is WHY I think ANY member of Congress will have a very tough time getting elected (except of course my DK!) He should be proud.

As long as our fellow idiot Americans care more about Gay rights than health care they will get another member of the Corporate elite from one of the parties.

[Erika]

7. By 2008, many seniors will be without a job or benefits

Over 50% of these seniors will have only SS to subsist. Are we going to let our elders die because they can't afford housing, heat, and medical care?

Way not to go, GOP.

[bluedawg12]

9. Erika- how do we get that message out to voters?

What more can we do at this time- it is never to early to start training voters who the good guys are.

The people are dying for leadership and good government.

How do we get that across?

[bluedawg12]

17. How is our foriegn policy? Do we have one?

Is it locked up at th PNAC offices?

It doesn't seem to be going too well in the middle east. A complete pull out will end the war, while we stay they blow things up.

We need an ass kicking hard honest look at the Dems and foreign policy.

[bluedawg12]

19. If Safire thinks he can distract us with the Avian flu scare he is

wrong. We will stay on message and not give into their "perpetual chaos" brand of imperial rule.

[enigma000]

20. There is no bounce because

Americans may be tired of the Republicans, they don't want to replace them with Democrats.

I think its because Dems don't offer anything other than being replacements - no policies that appeal, no optimistic vision.

The right has spent years, even decades honing their message, thinking about conservatism, and have a grand strategic plan. More and more I believe the left has and does none of these things.

Plus we constantly underestimate them. One thing that I noticed from the Harriot Miers nomination was the belief among many DUers that all the right-wing criticism was a farce; a ploy designed by Karl Rove, after phone conferencing with hundreds of thousands of Freepers, to sucker the Dems into supporting her. We keep calling them "stupid MFers" and evil "Sheeple" but they keep besting us. Why? Because we constantly underestimate them because we fail to see they have an ideology and a plan.

[bluedawg12]

21. enigma000- we missed the point of the Miers rebellion

it was an power grab by the secular, intelligentsia, of the radicalrightwing elite. They would NOT settle for a mediocre fundy they wanted an intellectual to spear head their entire agenda.

The neocons beat the theocons and reminded shrubby where he gets his power and support from.

My fear is that we remain reactive and not proactive.

Libby shoots himself in the foot and we believe we are snipers. LOL

[enigma000]

22. That's a very good analysis

The neocons beat the theocons.

I'm not sure why the Dems are so reactive. Is it our modern fast paced society combined with the high energy of the blog-sphere? Is it the fact their is no coherent message from the Democrats (re: Iraq - we support the war but we would have done it better) and that forces them to play gotcha? The day that Katrina hit NO this website was full of predictions this was the end of the administration. We had more faith in a natural disaster than our elected Democratic representatives.

One party democracies are not a good thing, it leads to stagnation and corruption. I would not welcome 40 years of uninterrupted Democratic rule any more than 40 years of Republican rule.

I guess I'm saying, its time to stop celebrating Bush's poll numbers dropping a point or two and start to craft policies that connect with voters.

[bluedawg12]

23. enigma000- one reason we are always reacting to THEM is

that they have the power of POTUS. They get to call the intiatives and national agenda. And these guys are busy little beavers.

Only this past Friday we were focused on Libby, today he forced everyone to discuss Scalito.

Totally agree that we need to get moving on the national scene and get onto the minds and hearts of Americans. Otherwise, they will replace shrub and create another conservative icon to rally around and to sell to the nation.

I am working on an idea about some things that Dems could do. of course, this is just one dark barking in a repug wilderness but hashing out ideas is a good thing.