Dean vs. Kucinich

[bocadem]

I like them both, but to me Dean has a much more "Presidential" feel - he even looks kind of Presidential. Kucinich looks like a muppet.

I'm not forming my opinions on looks alone.. I have a serious fear that Dean will be the "Gore" and Kucinich will be the "Nader", and as the strong, intelligent, free-willed people we are, we're gonna blow 2004.

Man I hope that doesn't happen.

[MaverickX]

1. balanced budget...

Dean supports balancing the budget and Kucinich appears to think you can just snap your fingers and have a total government funded health program. You can't increase government spending that much in a recession.

[dpbrown]

2. Kucinich's plan makes more sense than Dean's

For example, Dean's health care plan involves "giving federal money away to private insurance companies" while Kucinich's involves creating a single payer federal system and eliminating the bloated ponzi scheme of private health insurance, itself a tremendous drag on the economy.

Kucinich actually has a plan for how to fund his health care and educational initiatives as well. Kucinich is the only candidate honest enough to point out that the biggest military budget in the world has (heaven forbid) bloat in it. He would cut the Pentagon budget by 15% by eliminating funding for "star wars" and a couple stupid jet fighters no one wants anyway, banning the weaponization of space, and cutting the waste from the budget.

Kucinich's plans, more than Dean's, make fiscal sense by specifying where the money is, and where it will go to, ensuring that he will balance the budget while funding social programs and making the Pentagon more fiscally responsible.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Dean calls for more corporate welfare, and sending US jobs overseas

Dean is very far to the right on jobs and economic issues. Kucinich is pinpointing the problem - corporations that socialize the cost, and privatize the profits.

Dean's fiscal proposals ARE conservative, they fit right in with the mainstream of the Republican party. If I wanted to vote Republican, well you know how it goes.

[Eloriel]

14. Lets be honest about Dean's policies, shall we? For a change?

Dean is for FAIR TRADE. He's for environmental and wage protections to go along with trade agreements, or else. Or else what? Tariffs.

Might not be as good as Kucinich's, but again, it's something that can get done.

Eloriel

[revcarol]

17. President Kucinich can accomplish this,

by us electing a Democratic Congress!!

I'm sure everyone here remembers that pre-bush word: NEGOTIATIONS.
We must negotiate mutually beneficial trade agreements, ones that don't gut America of jobs or rape the environments and enslave the peoples of other countries.

[mdmc]

27. fair trade OR nafta?

.:dem:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

28. Fair trade, Free trade, Corporate trade, label it however you wish

Dean is for environmental and wage protections to go along with corporate trade agreements. This is exactly what Clinton said, and then he went ahead and passed the corporate trade agreements without them. Now, for the last 10 years, the Democrats have been saying, vote for us again, and we'll really do it this time.

Dean is for firing US workers and sending their jobs to lower paid countries. Dean has made no statement that US chartered corporations need to be loyal to the United States. Dean has pointedly refused to say that economic decisions about jobs and wages need to be controlled by the democratic process, not unaccountable corporations.

Dean is giving us slick talk, he will put tariffs on China unless they agree to environmental protections and human rights. So, China will get Dean's version of "Most Favored Nation Status" like they have in the past, and we'll make trade deals with them like we do now.

US corporations will continue to fire Americans and hire Chinese workers under a totalitarian Communist regime. China will "get better" and Democrats will continue to say "China is getting better" until we are all out of work.

No thank you.

[Eloriel]

13. The best plan in the world isn't any good at all

if it can't get passed. Dean is a pragmatic visionary -- he knows full well that getting the thing passed is the first step. His plan will pass.

He has said that Dems have been trying to pass this for decades, and everybody ends up squabbling about how to reform it, and then nothing at all gets passed, and people go uninsured for another decade. Dean's plan can pass. It may not be a "perfect" plan, but it's a passable plan and the uninsured will benefit.

Eloriel

[dpbrown]

18. Dean will do what Clinton did to health care

He'll start with a good plan, and then allow the health insurance companies to nickle and dime it until it's bloated, unrecognizable, and unworkable. Then it'll sink of its own accord, because that's what you get when you try to make the health insurance companies happy.

Dennis Kucinich is a pragmatist who has already proven that he can stand his ground against the corporate oligarchs who would deprive us of our hard-earned cash. When he stood up to the banks in Cleveland to fulfill his campaign promise to protect Cleveland's municipal light utility, he was smeared. And he was proven right, and Cleveland residents have affordable power and own still own their own municipal electric utility as a result.

Dennis Kucinich beat a Republican incumbent to get elected to the Ohio State Senate. He beat a Republican incumbent to get elected to the U.S. House of Representatives. And when the public understands his clear, unambiguous, and pragmatic plans for the future of this country, he will beat the unelected fraud squatting in Al Gore's house as well.

No health care plan that preserves the bloated ponzi schemes of private health insurers is ultimately the right plan for this nation. Only one candidate is courageous enough to say that. Every other candidate would reward the inefficient and bloated private health care insurance industry for their sloth, greed, and avarice.

Only one candidate has a plan to provide medical coverage for every citizen as a right without bloating federal spending to feed more tax dollars to the corrupt private health insurers. Rep. Kucinich will identify, isolate, and surgically remove the bloat and waste in the Pentagon budget to fund his health care and educational initiatives without increasing the tax burden.

No other candidate, Governor Dean included, has a plan to fund his or her health care initiatives without handing over more federal cash to corrupt private health care insurance companies. Every candidate other than Kucinich will be subject to, as a result, Republican demagoguery on the "tax and spend" issue.

Rep. Kucinich, who has already beaten three incumbent Republicans, will not be subject to that same Republican posturing, and will, as a result, get his plan passed.

Electability is a red herring. Rep. Kucinich will mop the floor with Bush, because Kucinich is the only candidate who can truly be portrayed as the anti-Bush.

Everyone reading this should familiarize themselves with Kucinich's response to the "electability" bugaboo:

http://kucinich.us/electable.htm

I'm a menace for Dennis!

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[cjbuchanan]

3. Kucinich as Nader

Are you afraid that he might run in the general election?

I've heard that the Green Party is interested in him but I think Kucinich would pass if offered. I think he understands that we must beat Bush and him running would only make that harder on the nominee. I also think he understands that if he bolts the party, he will lose whatever influence he gains from this campaign. Reminds you of McCain in 2000.

[revcarol]

4. Helpful to know what you are talking about before you slam another

candidate.
Kucinich would never be a "Nader," as he is a loyal Democrat.
Kucinich wants to repeal the Bushie tax cuts, reduce the defense budget by 15%($from a bloated $400 million or is it billion)by cutting out all those Cold War weapons we don't need and NOT weaponizing outer space. He realizes that the infrastructure needs a boost and this will stimulate the economy, but is realistic enough to know that you can't balance the budget right away. Universal health care, when in place after a 10 year phase-in, will cost us less than we are already paying.

[bocadem]

7. I didn't mean to slam your candidate, but...

I was referring to a primary.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. Dean "feels" better - is it because he's rich?

Dean's the kind of guy you're used to seeing on TV, and in positions of leadership. He's rich, white, from a wealthy family, part of the Yale upper class, and part of Wall Street.

Personally, Dean looks creepy to me ... looks like he might dress up in tuxes and smoke a cigar or something ... yeech.

Kucinich looks like a regular guy, and talks like one too. I feel more comfortable with him.

Anyway, if Kucinich has to drop out, I'll be voting for Gephardt, who has a strong record of voting for working middle class families. Gephardt can easily beat Bush.

No way in hell I'm voting for a Wall Street Yalie, Dean, Kerry, or Bush.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Bill and Hill

both have J.E.D.'s from Yale

Are they acceptable?


FDR and JFK* were blue bloods. I'd give my right arm to have them around today.

Just because you come from a well to do family doesn't mean you don't have a true empathy for the common man.




* I know JFK was Catholic so he can't be a WASP.

[Eloriel]

15. Gephardt also has a strong record of

voting for the war, and kissing Bush's tush.

No thanks.

Eloriel

[Dear Prudence]

16. "Dean "feels" better - is it because he's rich?"

"Gephardt, who has a strong record of voting for working middle class families"

The problem I see with this statement is that Dick Gephardt has a terrible voting record. He's missed approximately 85% of his votes on the floor and to match this, he's been a "no show" at several campaign event/opportunities.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi Dear Prudence!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[buddhamama]

26. welcome to DU,Dear Prudence

i like your username,reminds me of a song!

enjoy! :toast:

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. As we've all said, we don't want to mess this one up...so

as Dave Barry said, which you just have to agree with,"he should be tallish". Let's face it folks, there's alot of people out there who vote based on looks (me not being one of them, unless Richard Gere were running), so I feel you must kind of meld politics with impression. I like Kucinich, but my husband thinks he's a radical...so do a lot of people, the kind of people I believe who vote based on whether he is "tallish or not" Lets not blow it this time....

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. Yes, Dean is just too ugly to win

Looks are important, of course. As shallow as it may be, Dean just doesn't look "presidential" to me. Dean looks like he should be telling boring stories at a cocktail party.

We need someone who plays well on television, some who plays to the people. That's Dennis Kucinich, who is well spoken and looks like a regular guy.

I'm sure Dean would be an okay candidate, but he's just unelectable. Sorry.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I don't slam on candidates, I just want anyone other than *, but

Kucinich, doesn't look like regular guy to me...he kind of looks like a rodent...Not intended to slam him...just...not someone I think people are going to go for. Again, my opinion...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. I don't slam candidates, but yours looks like a rodent!

Ha ha. Dean's a nice guy, he just can't win. He's unelectable, too weird looking. Let's all get behind an electable candidate, okay?

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. Don't believe I mentioned who my candidate was...I thought this was

a discussion on who was electable...or did I get that wrong...?

[bobthedrummer]

8. Kucinich article from WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18457-2003Jun21.html

[w4rma]

10. Both Dean and Kucinich rock!

And neither of them will go third party. Besides, I expect that Dean will win the Democratic nomination due to the enthusiasm of his supporters.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Think There Was A Double Negative In My Previous Post

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tinoire]

19. Pretty good comparison at this site

http://www.bobharris.com/kucinichdean.html

I have no problems with the Kucinich information. A DUer I respect thought the Dean information, while tecnically true, seemed a tad bit biased. If you feel any information there is incorrect, the web-master requests you contact him- he's not interested in being less than factual.

Peace

[gully]

20. That wasn't

supposed to be an 'un-biased' look at the candidates was it?

:crazy:

[Tinoire]

23. It was - If you have any issues you don't agree with, please discuss n/t

[tjdee]

22. He looks like a muppet? That's deep.

:eyes:

While I agree that there are intangibles which can help or hurt a candidate, including looks, this is now the second time today I'm reading about the physical appearance of a candidate who isn't Dean.

Kucinich has not indicated in any way that he would ditch the party and play any kind of Nader role, so why would you assume he would?

[bocadem]

30. Again

Sorry if I insulted someone you admire so deeply. I was only stating my opinion.

[poskonig]

24. We will do well.

I do not see how the Republicans pick up New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, et cetera.

I do agree with you about Kucinich's stage appearance. I think Kerry has more of a tendency to come off as a Gore that doesn't know who he is, flip-flops on issues, et cetera, than Dean does. Dean's primary weakness, if we ignore his many strengths as a candidate, is his trigger-happy mouth. But since we can always spin that as "straight-talk," so I'm not too concerned about it.

[cherryperry]

34. yeah, but

IMO, Kerry will take it because "money changes everything"...

[CWebster]

35. Kucinich hasn't got a song of a chance!

Tweety made small work of ripping him to shreds. It was painful.