What Scarboro DIDN'T say is most important

[Jersey Devil]

Scarboro, Fineman, Carlson all agreed it was legal for Cheney to tell Libby Plame's name. But what none of them said is that it would be a crime for Cheney to tell Libby the name with instructions to leak it, conspiracy to out Plame in violation of law.

If Fitz has a witness that can say Cheney nodded in agreement with the plan to out Plame then he too is indicted.

[Inland]

1. Indeed, why would Cheney and Libby be discussing Plame's name,

if not for someone to leak it?

That's conspiracy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Amen

I have had this thought as well. In fact, I shut up a freeper with this question. :)

[Ouabache]

15. uh, well there is another reason possibly

It was after the invasion. No WMD had yet been found. A lot of us were saying we didn't think it would be beyond PNAC to plant them. And, what was the specialty of Plame's CIA unit/front/cover?

[cynatnite]

2. I'm hunting for John Dean's book...

I remember him writing that nothing happens without Cheney giving the nod.

[dave29]

5. We have Cheney in the room

Now we just need him to move his head a little.

[back2basics909]

3. This was leaked by...

.. one of the admins lawyers. What would they gain by leaking this, under those criteria?

[Faygo Kid]

4. Fineman was right. It's the war, not the leak.

Couldn't believe O'Donnell was so obtuse when asked why someone in Iowa should care.

[Ksec]

6. its not legal to give it to media

and Im sure Fitz made a deal with Libby about the conversations Libby had with Cheney. Libby will turn on Cheney for a favorable sentence.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. And this leads to the question of WHY Evil Dick told Libby about Plame.

I can't believe they were just having a casual conversation: "Hey, Scooter, did you know Joe Wilson's wife Valerie Plame works for the CIA? How 'bout that?" Nope. It had to be something like: "Scooter, I just found out Joe Wilson's wife Valerie Plame works for the CIA. We need to teach Wilson a lesson; you kow what to do."

[Jersey Devil]

10. What did Cheney tell Fitz and did Fitz have FBI agents with him

when he questioned Cheney who was NOT under oath. If FBI agents were present when cheney was questioned and he lied it is a crime to make a false report to them. Even if they were not present, however, it establishes Cheney as a liar if he did not say he told Libby.

It also establishes that there is another witness who DOES say that Cheney told Libby. If that is so, what else did this witness tell Fitz that Cheney said?

[flyarm]

17. well actually..the fbi was involved before fitz was involved!!

when ashcroft had the case the fbi was involved and if cheney made any statements to them..thats in the records..and that sticks!
that was in the fall of 2003 the fbi and aj office was investigating and questioning stuff..through the fbi!!

fly

[No Exit]

18. Guess what! Latest NYT article says Cheney was interviewed UNDER OATH!

Now, I know the NYT isn't exactly bursting with credibility at this point, but surely they at least still have proofreaders!

If he was under oath, he can be gotten for perjury if he lied.

[karlrschneider]

13. Exactly! It's not something that would just come up for no reason...

:eyes:

[Zynx]

29. YES! Why the hell would he bring it up otherwise?

This is simple logic. It's kind of like if a person bought a gun the day before they were sited near a person who was murdered by a gun of the same caliber.

[benddem]

9. Why would it be legal for Cheney to pass

classified info to Libby? For that matter it wasn't legal for Tenant to give it to Cheney. Top secret info cannot be passed to anyone with a top secret clearance. >Bold "You must have a need to know."<Bold There is no conceivable excuse for giving her name etc to Cheney. His only need to know was to smear Plame. That isn't legal. It doesn't matter who the Veep is.

[Ksec]

11. I was thinking along those lines also

I know nothing about law though but it seems like it would be unlawful to be sharing intelligence around like so much gossip.

[Jersey Devil]

16. I think you are right

I am no expert on this but I have heard this before. I would think they would have to have given Fitz a very inventive reason why Cheney would tell anyone this information.

[aquart]

19. Exactly. "Need to know."

Libby did NOT need to know.

[nookiemonster]

28. Yep.

There seems to be a consensus among the less educated about how classified info works. Just because you have the clearance doesn't give you carte blanche to look at, or disseminate anything with that particular classification.

I once had a TS/BI, and I remember the "need to know" aspect. It's a big deal!

[Quixote1818]

12. Here is what the New York Times article says about this

"It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government’s deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry."


Certanly Cheney did this as well I would think?

[pinto]

14. I doubt it. I bet Libby is the fall guy. (Think Ollie North).

[Earth_First]

20. Exactly...it has to be someone...

Rove? Never.

[flyarm]

21. but do remember...valierie had a status that was ...

"need to know" only..libby nor cheney could get info on valerie ..unless it was a specific "need to know!"

fly

[CantGetFooledAgain]

30. I doubt that's even true

Not every aide in the White House, even the high-up ones, are necessarily "cleared to know the government's deepest secrets".

When a slip of the tongue can destroy a decade's worth of intelligence gathering AND cost people their lives, as this leak most likely did, then I think extraordinary precautions are taken with secrecy. Imagine for a moment that we might have agents within Al-Qaeda. I don't think that "Scooter" can just see that list whenever he wants to.

At least I hope that our secrets are managed better than that.

It's more than just perjury. It's treason.

[NashVegas]

22. Aren't We Forgetting Something?

Bush's dad was the freaking HEAD of the CIA. If anyone would stand to know from early on how gross a violation leaking that name was, it would be Dubya and all of GHWB's pals.

[Ksec]

23. Thats true . These idiots run our intelligence !!

And is that your picture in your avatar Crisco? Thats actually me in my avatar. I used a cheap sunless tanning lotion and it turned me orange.

:)

[NashVegas]

25. Of Course It Is

Mining incident.

[EC]

24. Or even if he acknowledged that she was an agent as the

second source...

On edit: as in: Matt Cooper calling and saying, "Is this true" and Chaney saying, "That's what I hear" or anything affirmative...

That's illegal in the Espionage Act...

What I find interesting is that it has been rumored that Fritz also now has the Franklin case...

[merbex]

26. If Fitz has a witness that can say Cheney nodded in agreement with the pla

plan to out Plame then he too is indicted.

Treason - people Treason

[Justice]

27. Couple of Important Points - Suggest Cheney has not been truthful

from TPM - Cheney was interviewed on Meet the Press in September of 2003 - he denied knowing Joe Wilson or anything about him or anything about Wilson going to Niger. See transcript http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/

However, according to TPM, some THREE MONTHS EARLIER Cheney had been briefed by Tenet about Wilson and the trip to Niger. See http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006822.php

The implication is that Cheney read the Washington Post article which mentioned a US ambassador going to Niger at the CIA's request (the exact article was posted on DU recently) and called Tenet demanding to know how this happened and who the ambassador was. From there Tenet briefed Cheney.

On edit - My point is that Fitzgerald may use Cheney's lies (he appears to have lied on MTP to try to cover his knowledge/involvement about Plame/Wilson) as evidence that he was involved in something sinister.