How Many Others Feel Like This is 1973-1974 All Over Again?

[louis c]

I am 53 years old. I hated Nixon (however, he wasn't nearly as bad as the Asshole we have now).

I hearken back to those days when we were heart broken about being unable to convince a nation that a true war hero, George McGovern, should lead America instead of a pair of coward pieces of shit (Nixon-Agnew).

An unjust, immoral war was raging that most Americans believed (and latter it was proved) was started and built on lies. The war was becoming more and more unpopular, and so was the President.

Then, just as now, a dirty trick, which in reality was a crime, was being investigated, and the men (and it was just men, except for Rose Mary Woods), were frantically trying to cover up the crime. The cover-up was important then, as now, so as not to interfere with the President's re-election.

Haldermen, Ehrlichmen, Mitchell and Agnew then; Rove, Libby, and Cheney now. The parallels are incredible to me.

Does it seem the same to you, if you lived through those times? Remember waiting for the indictments in 1973 and 1974? To coin a phrase by my pisano, Yogi Berra, it feels like deja vu all over again.

Let's hope it all turns out the same.

[acmavm]

1. This is the Nixon Administration squared.

.

[newscott]

2. Seeing as a lot of the people who will be indicted

Cut their teeth either in the Nixon era or are in direct descent to those people it's no surprise that they were doomed to make the same mistakes.

I was only 9/10 when Watergate went down, but it seems to these young eyes that we have been down this path before.

[pearl]

3. Absolutely

What amazes me is every single time the republicans gain
even a shred of power they abuse it. Only this time they've really
done it. This is like Nixon on steroids. What Bastards they are.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Yes, I've noticed the parallels too

Let's not forget the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq too. In fact, *'s most recent justification for the war sounds very much like the domino theory, except now the imagined fear is an Islamic empire, not Communism.
One significant difference is it does seem that Bush will not be expand the war into surrounding countries (fingers crossed) as Nixon and Kissinger expanded the war into Cambodia.
Deja vu all over again.

[knowbody0]

5. yep

i only wish we had that outspoked crazy wife like back then. (Martha?) i remember them trying to get her to shut up as they pulled her away from the inquiring press. "They're crooks! all of them! they lie, they cheat, they steal"

[louis c]

8. and then they killed her.

[knowbody0]

17. i had forgotten that

but they sure did didn't they. an overdose as i recall.
rest in peace Martha and thank you

[Sanity Claws]

16. Martha Mitchell

I only vaguely remember her. They tried to discredit her as a drunk. Hell, if that could be used to discredit someone, then * is totally without credit.

[kevinbgoode]

34. Back then, I liked her...somewhere I still have a letter

from her...nothing special, but signed by her in ink. I was a high school student back then and felt awful when she was found dead. Oh, she was a conservative - but she had no fear of speaking her mind.

I always believed she was killed too.

[WI_DEM]

6. only if it ends up with the chimp resigning.

[louis c]

9. one can hope

[the_spectator]

7. We still don't have any "tapes" yet.

Bush still has his plausible deniability. I'm sure no President will ever record himself again. BUT, maybe Bush actually sends/receives emails???? And even non-computer folks like me know by now that everything you ever do on the computer imprints itself permanently in some mysterious way, always ready to be recovered by skilled geeks working at the direction of a court order? (I know I know, Bush and email, it's a long shot literacy-wise, but still...)

[cynatnite]

13. Your post made me wonder if they had paper shredding parties n/t

[the_spectator]

21. Or hard-drive smashing parties these days n/t

[European Socialist]

10. except back then we had Real Democrats and an aggressive press.

[evlbstrd]

11. It's like deja vu all over agian.

[moc]

12. I was 11-12yo. My biggest memory of that time is my parents

spending every night in front of the TV, eating dinner on TV tables, watching the Watergate hearings.

It was all soooo boring to me. :boring: I was just pissed because I couldn't watch The Brady Bunch or whatever.

I told my mom recently that I now understand exactly why they were glued to the TV back then. And now it's my 9yo daughter asking me WHY I'm glued to my laptop all night every night.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. :D

[cynatnite]

18. Same here :)

My grandpa would put on the hearings and I couldn't get out of the living room fast enough. I do wish I had watched.

[KoKo]

14. Not same age as you...but YES...I remember..and never thought I'd go

through this EVER AGAIN. But, there was an "inkling" when Ford Pardoned Nixon for his Crimes. That "Pardon" led us down the road that we are now on...imho...:-(. "Crime Pays" was what it says. G. Gordon Liddy has a Talk Show raking in the dollars. Chuck Colson is the head of a Christian Movement and a Repug "Consultant" for mega $$$$$'s because of Pardon. Who knows what the hell the rest of them are doing and what money they are getting. Even one of the guys who investigated it lives on as a Paid Media Whore writing books for the Right Wing...Bob Woodward.

As I said...Example to America..."Crime Pays." And we've got Criminals out the Ying Yang today.

[longship]

15. * has succeeded in snagging Congress.

That is close to taking the impeachment power off the table. I say "close to" because there's still a chance that there may be enough principled congress critters to do the job. If the citizens are vocal enough and if the press continues with their trend toward increasing accountability, it may become very uncomfortable for congress critters to continue obstructing investigations of * and Co.

IMHO, this is much, much worse than Watergate. We've got a cabal of criminals in power who have no morals whatsoever. I fear that even in the best scenerio things are not going to turn out very well. The best scenerio may still be very grim.

[kohodog]

22. I agree, Watergate is peanuts compared to this.

The FBI was meddling with our civil rights then, but now Congress and SCOTUS is blatently putting them on the table. Big Brother was an unlikely but frightening possibility then, but now it is real. Every financial transaction you make is noted, every late payment raises your interest rate on non-related credit. We are much closer to 1984 than we were in 1984.

[LiberalEsto]

19. This bunch of thugs makes me nostalgic

for the days of Tricky Dick

at least in some ways.....

[Bjornsdotter]

20. Yeah, it does

I keep telling my kids that this could well be their Watergate.

Cheers!

[rateyes]

23. Biggest difference, however,

is that Congress actually investigated Watergate, and the Republicans on the committee didn't support Nixon. I hope the Repigs in Congress today find SOME semblance of integrity after these indictments are handed down. Whether or not * or Cheney are indicted, their involvement in this needs to be investigated. Maybe when the Wilson's file their civil suit and start getting "discovery" and "depositions" the country will finally force the hands of the Repugs in congress.

[ktowntennesseedem]

38. And that's a really big difference, too.

Not sure if we can overcome it, but with the '06 elections 12 months away, I think we just might see a few Repugs grow a backbone. I guess it all depends on how wide the indictment-net is cast and how deep a wound it inflicts on the administration. Even if the indictments are limited, there could be enough ass-covering spin to wake up the public, so that they demand accountability for this mess and force their Repug congressmen and senators to have some integrity. When forced to choose between covering for * and saving their own political career, they will choose the latter every time.

Patience, patience... I keep telling myself, patience... so hard to wait, but not much else to do right now.

[stillcool]

24. That was ...

my senior year in high-school, and deja-vu gets me big time. Not the politics cause i was only into the side-effects of politics,...but the consequences are frighteningly similar..something i never thought i'd feel again is the utter astonishment at bigots and racists sharing my world. This war, as that war, and the war before will leave its indelible marks of destruction on everything it's touched. My survival tools of Drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll won't work for me anymore, so reality is surreal.

[HockeyMom]

25. Far Worse than Nixon

I was a young adult back then. Nixon was not the warmonger this group is. Pre-emptive Wars? Spreading "Democracy"? No, bad as he was, doubt that was ever in Nixon's mind. Bush and his cronies want WORLD DOMINATION.

Also with this group their agenda includes the whole enchilada. From screwing/killing off the middle class (of course poor too) to make their corporate buddies richer, to subjugating women and minorities, to creating a false Christian theocracy.

Let me count the ways. Nixon versus Bush? Not even CLOSE.

[louis c]

28. My first line,

I'm 53 years old. I hated Nixon (however he wasn't nearly as bad as the Asshole we have now).

I think we agree.

[madrchsod]

26. kinda but nixon was told by his own party to step down

or he would be impeached and there were not enough votes in the senate. there isn`t one republican and only a hand full of democrats that have the balls to tell him to resign for the good of the nation and the party. the difference is nixon knew he had to leave bush will never except the fact that he should

[louis c]

30. Don't be too sure

the first rule in politics is self preservation. Let W's poll numbers reach the 20's and we'll see who gets balls, or in this case, loses them.

[Jacobin]

27. No Sam Irvin, no TV coverage of the Watergate Hearings

or its equivalent, the media is now owned lock, stock and barrel by corporate interests who profit from globalization and war.

No. I remember Watergate well.

The missing ingredient is a free media.

Welcome to Fascist USA.

[bobbieinok]

35. now no free media, 24/7 RW radio, no free republicans

I still remember being on the bus with my son (we rode the bus for something interesting to do in the pre-school years) ...... the driver had the watergate hearings on ..... and Butterfield said 'it's all on the tapes'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

later that summer I was in England and touring the Tower of London....the guide said 'for our American guests, this is the water gate entrance to the Tower; it was also known as the traitor gate, b/c that's the way people sent to the Tower for treason entered'

......a factoid I'll never forget

******

people got addicted to news 24/7, but after the whole thing was over Ted Turner saved the day for the news junkies by starting CNN

[porphyrian]

29. All I remember from that time was Speed Buggy.

That, and when Horton Hears A Who was supposed to come on about a year later but was bumped for a Special News Report or some such nonsense.

[WinkyDink]

31. I'm about to turn 56.

I own over 60 books just on Nixon/Watergate.
I'm ready to start filling a new bookshelf, if you know what I mean.

[louis c]

32. Sure Do....

I remember the day Butterfield testified.

It was supposed to be a "nothing" day, then he revealed the tapes, matter-of-factly, as if to say "you mean this is a big deal?"

I thought "what kind of a moron would wire-tap himself, and turn the evidence over to the prosecution?". The answer was, a Republican.

Don't be too sure this nit-wit, Bush, doesn't have some delicious surprises for us down the road. Remember, he really is stupid.

[eallen]

33. I've felt that quite a while. But I think Nixon was worse.

Once someone like Nixon or Bush is behind us, we tend to forget the fear and the real threat that a permanent kink will be thrown into our system of government. Then the villain, now safely past, starts to be idealized and quaintified, like all parts of the past. Vietnam was bloodier. Nixon was worst. There is no analog today to Cambodia.

[louis c]

47. kick in the evening

[hootinholler]

36. The key difference is that

Agnew and MacNamara (who was Nixon's SecDef?) weren't running the show. Nixon did that bit. W just wants to be seen presidentin, he could care less about the state of the Nation. Cheney and Rummy are calling the shots.

Many went to Tricky Dick U. Then got OJT under RayGun and poppy. Then on to V.P., SecDef, etc., with a Pet Goat in tow. Not a bad career path for an aspiring Dr. Evil. Hmmmmmm.

-Hoot

[louis c]

41. Historical Correction

McNamara was Johnson's.

Nixon had someone else, the name escapes me.

[hootinholler]

45. I had him connected to Vietnam...

Thus the parenthetical question, I wasn't sure.

Thanks!
-Hoot

[louis c]

46. By the way, it's Melvin Laird

who was nixon's secretary of defense

[cmd]

37. It's not just about the war

Bush has turned our country over to the corporations. The robber barons live again. I would take Nixon any day over Bush, and I hated Nixon.

[louis c]

43. You're correct

Bush is Nixon at war, Hoover's economics, and William Jennings Bryant's (Stokes' trial) Religious zeal. The worst of all worlds.

[DancingBear]

39. I'm (almost) 52

The parallels are striking.

Literally, one can go down the list and say Ziegler=Scotty, Mitchell=Ashcroft/Gonzales, etc.

Some of the differences -these bastards make Nixon look like Mother Teresa, Nixon actually WAS the President, and Nixon, amazingly enough, had a grasp (and a very good one) on foreign policy.

[SheilaT]

40. I'm 57, and lived in

the DC area at the time, and I remember it well. There are ways that this feels the same, but the crucial one of a Democratic House and Senate are missing. Plus, there were good, decent, honorable Republicans out there, and they told Nixon when it was finally time for him to go.

While I truly hope indictments come down for all of them now, with every day that passes I'm more convinced that Fitzgerald is going to quietly close shop and go back to Chicago and we'll all be here going, Huh? What happened?

Perhaps one way to judge how close we are, is to talk to people who currently work on Capital Hill. Back in 1974 the business of the government came to a virtual standstill around the middle of July, and so when Nixon finally resigned (it was a Friday night) the entire city took a collective deep breath, watched his maudlin farewell on Saturday and his leaving the Capital, and slept late on Sunday and went back to work on Monday, really back to the job for the first time in weeks.

We were in a genuine constitutional crisis thirty years ago. That's not really the case now, as despicable as the leaking of the identity of a CIA agent is. Keep that crucial difference in mind.

[akarnitz]

42. I'm much more aware now,

that I'm 40, of the actual crimes. The Watergate break in happened when I was 7, Nixon resigned when I was 9. I knew all the names from the news, and I knew they were bad guys(My mom told me so), I knew it had something to do with a burglary. Most of my friends in the same age group only remember the hearings, and they only remember that the hearings pre-empted their favorite cartoons(I'm forever pointing out the pre-emption of "Match Game" in those days).

The parallels are interesting, but the group in the WH now makes the Nixon folks look like saints. What scares me is that the Rethugs now in power have been using Watergate as a rallying point since the late '70's. Look at how they've turned out. Now I imagine what the backlash to convictions in the Plame Affair might be like. We could be facing a much creepier, dangerous GOP in the future if we're not vigilant.

[louis c]

44. kick in the morning

[AztecGringo]

48. Not holding my breath

It would be nice to see the current regime crash and burn. But I have been so disappointed repeatedly that I am refraining from any jubilation until I actually see something of substance. I was a teen in the 70s and I just don't get that vibe that the powers that be can really be shaken, much less toppled. It is truly a shame that our country has veered so far.....But, hopefully, .....