Is Cindy Sheenan being Setup?

[TrueAmerican]

Hey, what's up with Cindy Sheenan and her attacks on Hillary Clinton and Diane Fienstein and other dumb stuff she has said? Is she being led around by a "mole" who is to make her and Democrats look bad?

[marylanddem]

1. Maybe she's just expressing her opinion

like we're all entitled to do.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

Oh yea, speaking out against those pro-war types sure is wrong

:eyes:

[knowbody0]

2. she is anti war

and speaks her heart. no one leads her around

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. She's a peacenik like me, but should stop attacking Dems for now

I think we need to stick together.

[TrueAmerican]

31. Well said.

I'm glad there are some level headed people still here.

[ultraist]

65. You can disagree with her w/out assaulting her character

Look, I don't agree with Cindy's every move or word either but it's not necessary to say that she's 'emotionally unstable' (in need of therapy) or being 'led by a mole' (which implies some very nasty things about her character).

Cindy deserves a lot of respect for what she has done for the antiwar movement.

[ClassWarrior]

3. Yes, she's a woman so she couldn't POSSIBLY think for herself...

:sarcasm:

NGU.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. We Dems have been unelectable because we attack our party

The reason we Dems have been unelectable for so long is not because there's something wrong with Democrats. In fact, we're the political party that cares. The problem is that we can't stick together and stand up for our party. We are our own worst enemies. We attack our party faster and better than the Repugs. We have to remember: UNITED WE STAND; DIVIDED WE FALL. We have to stick together. Yes, we ALL want this war to end NOW. However, if it's between ending the war now, and getting Democrats elected, sign me up for the 2nd first. If we don't do it that way, Repugnicans will get re-elected and you BET the Iraq War will continue. LET'S ATTACK THE REPUGNICANS INSTEAD OF OUR PARTY!

[knitter4democracy]

63. That's an interesting theory.

I don't buy it, though. Everyone I know who's gone Republican or votes Republican does it for two things: abortion and Clinton. They could care less that we're not all in lockstep or all on the same message. It's more a thing about really hating Clinton for some odd reason or being really uncomfortable with our party saying it's okay to kill off babies (in their view).

We could all get on the same message (even Cindy, who's an independent), and it wouldn't necessarily work. It will take personal relationships and grassroots efforts to reach everyone and let them see where the Republicans have dragged us.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. It's not about individual agendas - it's about us as a group

You're right about abortion and gays being the 2 popular agendas that attracted the right wing evangelical, born-again Christians to the GOP. But frankly, the Repugs have not had much competition from Democrats.

One of the surest things about the GOP since Reagan, is that they have stuck together like Superglue, regardless of what their own individual little likes and wants have been. They've temporarily put their individual little likes and wants on the back burner for the good of the GOP getting in power and staying in power.

The ONLY reason the GOP is now unraveling is because they're turning against one another trying to save their lives against indictments, and running like the frikkin' rats in the Titanic. They're not unraveling because we Dems are finally sticking together.

Sticking together WORKS to get anything done. Being divisive is an almost guaranteed way to failure. We desperately need to get representation again in this country. Underprivileged people are suffering while we sit around and argue about our own personal one unique agenda that we're trying to push through at any cost, even at the loss of elections.

If we don't get representation in this country soon, it will be because we Dems are attacking one another and trying to get our own personal one agenda across. We desperately need to speak up, but against the Repugnicans, not against our own.

If we libs don't stand together tightly to fight the right wing sh*theads, we're headed towards third world nation status.

Edit: I want to add that Cindy may be an independent, but as we have seen TWICE with Ralph Nader, this country is not going to vote for a third or independent party. Time is of the essence, we must be rid of the right wingers now!

And by the way, we knitters rule. :evilgrin:

[knitter4democracy]

70. I think it's more complicated than that.

I don't think the Republican Party is as united as the media makes it look and never has been. When I was in college (a conservative one), I saw constant behind-the-scenes bickering and debate. They may be good at putting on a public face, better than the Dems, but they aren't as united as they seem.

I don't think we lose votes because of this, though. I don't think our base refuses to vote for us because of any in-fighting. I think it's out of a belief that there really is no difference between the parties, that all politicians are corrupt liars, and that their votes really don't matter. We lose so many votes every election to inertia and cynicism. Those don't come from the party not having everyone on message (honestly, how many keep track and care?) but from a tarnished image we've earned ourselves.

You're right that we need to fight now and kick these idiots out of office and do our best to hold them accountable for their crimes. I think the best way to do that is with grassroots efforts (both to make sure our votes actually count and to get more people engaged in the political process again) and personal relationships (mostly to make sure the truth gets out there in a way people can hear).

Cindy's not running for office last I checked. Her stance as an independent is merely that: her personal position. It's not about her running for office and taking votes away from Dems but about her personal story and need to speak truth to power. That story is getting through the cynicism and anger and reaching more people than our party has in years. Let's focus on that and keep working.

Once we have the unified message that Dr. Dean's been working so hard at developing, then we'll have everyone on board (at least publically).

[SupplyConcerns]

4. She's trying to force Clinton to become more anti-war

before Clinton runs for president in 2008. That doesn't seem like a bad use of her energies.

[ultraist]

5. Led around by a mole?

:eyes:

[the_spectator]

10. nice catch!

What with moles being blind and everything.

[DistressedAmerican]

6. Speaking Out Against Dems That Are Betraying Us Is Everyone's Duty!

Too bad you don't see why she would be driven to say the things she has been saying. Perhaps it is you being led around...

[meganmonkey]

7. Why don't you just refer to it as 'dumb stuff' and help the RW smear her?

Oh wait, you just did... :eyes:

[G_j]

67. RW talking point

"Cindy is being used"

just ask Rush

[HughBeaumont]

8. Mrs DLC and DINO Fienswine SHOULD be attacked!

Fienswine's sucked ever since she was San Fran's mayor and Hillary is a polarizing, pro-war, pro-Rice, pro-offshoring anchor on us. Cindy lost a son in a grandstanding, tax-dollar wasting failure of an oil war.

But Cindy is the antagonist here?

I don't really see where she's out of line. We need someone to stand up for our collective voice, THE PEOPLE, and DINO and Hillary have not done so.

[the_spectator]

9. cough... "Occupied New Orleans" ... cough

Cindy Sheehan, Dated 9/18/05 on Michael Moore's website:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=503

"George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power."

Sharks have been jumped. Multiple sharks.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

11. Its not like in NO, Halliburton is getting no bid contracts

there are no troops on the ground, there are no undocumented workers, they have not suspended the minimum wage....

OH WAIT, THATS EXACTLY WHATS GOING ON.

[TrueAmerican]

16. You need to calm down. You sound emotional.

Please pull it together.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

17. ha!

I guess thats also the problem with Cindy, she's too emotional! :rofl:

[ClassWarrior]

18. Why are you making this poster the issue? He sounds pretty...

...reasonable to me.

:shrug:

NGU.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

19. Thanks CW

:hi:

[ClassWarrior]

21. Back atcha Mad...

:hi:

NGU.

[jonnyblitz]

24. the OP is just upset that somebody dare criticize his

precious DEMS.

[TrueAmerican]

27. Um, this is Democratic Underground, not Cindy Sheenan's personal forum

thank you.

[knitter4democracy]

45. So, this is the place to march lockstep with all Dem leaders?

If we're the Underground, it would make sense that we could disagree with our leadership and see if we can convince them to take a more left-hand tack.

[the_spectator]

66. You are right , now. But Cindy said this back

it seems, no later than September 16th. That was less than two short weeks since any troops actually really got there in force. And the troops, National Guard and any others, were a real help in the relatively early days of the Katrina crisis. In fact, many of us asked why they couldn't get there sooner. They had the know-how, just as obviously FEMA didn't.

At that point, most people were happy that the troops were finally there, helping.

By calling it "occupied New Orleans" then, Ms. Sheehan inadvertently played in to the right-wing criticism of her and her friends: that it's not just about Iraq, or even Bush, but that they believe that the United States, and particularly the U.S. Armed Forces, are always a force for evil, and are fundamentally incapable of doing any good, even in a stateside rescue mission. So much so that if the U.S. Armed Forces did any good in this day and age, it would rip the fabric of the space/time continuum so badly that reality as we know it would cease to exist. You know, that argument.

[TrueAmerican]

12. That's the type of "Dumb" remarks I'm talking about

"Occupied New Orleans"? Jump the shark, is right.

[thebigidea]

14. as if she's just a sitcom or something.

maybe she should get a cute kid to help the ratings with your demographic.

rats, he was already killed off in season one!

[jonnyblitz]

13. I don't know whatever gave you party "loyalists" the idea

she was a spokesperson for or owed some allegiance to the DEMs in the first place . it's quite amusing to watch you all gasp in horror that she dare criticize these pro-war DEMS. :eyes:

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

15. I know! She's just a mother who has more balls to stand up to

this administration and its enablers more then any other citizen. damn, shes not the head of the DNC!

[TrueAmerican]

20. Criticize? More like whining.

People often start tuning out people who do nothing but gripe all the time.

[ClassWarrior]

22. Good idea. Time to put this thread on ignore...

NGU.

[TrueAmerican]

25. Yeah, with all the "excuses" people are making

I feel sorry for Cindy's loss, but she has jump the shark and no longer helping her cause anymore.

[ClassWarrior]

28. HER cause?? Geez, and I thought it was OUR cause. Did somebody say...

...mole??

:rofl:

NGU.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

29. no longer helping Her cause or yours? n/t

[meganmonkey]

39. And who are you to claim you understand HER cause?

Seriously? Have you lost a child to this war? I apologize if you have, I don't mean to be insensitive, but I think you don't have a very good grasp on what her cause is.

Her cause isn't to advance the Democrats agenda, or to follow the Dem party line, as jonnyblitz pointed out upthread.

Her cause is personal, and lucky for the anti-war movement, she gets a lot of media attention. I don't know about you but I am forever grateful for the original Camp Casey, the other camps that she has inspired, the vigils, the protests, the fact that she participated in the civil disobedience last month and got arrested in front of the White House, the speeches she has made across the country, etc...I was honored to be arrested with her last month, I would gladly do it again.

It isn't a matter of supporting Cindy OR supporting Dems - there are more than 2 boxes to fit in in this world. Show me a movement that has succeeded without civil disobedience, without outspoken people who SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER and who bend the rules and expectations of the parties, and I'll sit here and watch the pigs flying past my window...

Peace.

[knitter4democracy]

26. Back off!

She's not a Dem party hack, so she can say what she wants to say. There are Republicans who agree with her and are starting to wake up because of her. If she attacks on both sides of the aisle, well, I guess that makes her American. Most Americans like people in each party.

Frankly, she's just saying what many here say on a daily basis. Just because people are listening more to her doesn't mean you should attack her.

[TrueAmerican]

30. Am I'm being threaten for my criticism?

Wow. I guess we all have to march in lockstep with every looney in the bin?

[RoyGBiv]

32. These are talking points ...

You've repeated almost all of them now.

Just what "mole" is leading you?

[TrueAmerican]

33. Talking Points?

This is how I feel. Nobody is leading me. Thank you. I was against the war from the get go. Cindy Sheenan doesn't represent me.

[DistressedAmerican]

36. So That Is How Cindy FEELS. Nobody Is Leading Her Either.

See the logic?

[TrueAmerican]

41. Than she needs to seek counseling

She's an emotional wreck.

[knitter4democracy]

49. Criticizing Hilary makes her a wreck?

Heck, then lock half of us up.

Of course she's an emotional wreck. Would you be rational if your son was murdered in a war based on lies? Step back and listen to yourself for once and see if you sound all rational and normal.

[DistressedAmerican]

54. So Do You My Party Drone Friend.

Hillary is my Senator and she has never voted the way I would have liked. Even though I send he a lot of messages and she always thanks me for my thoughts or some form repoly like that. She is so not what most of us want from Dem leadership. Keep following her if you'd like. But, don't be suprised when her prowar bullshit gets ripped on by the anti-war crowd. We think she is full of shit. Not rocket science.

[RoyGBiv]

51. Ooookay.

I'll leave it alone now that you've made my point for me. That was rather easier than I thought it would be.

Rage on.

[DistressedAmerican]

34. You Seem Quite Disgusted By Us "Loonies" In "The Bin".

Why the hell are you here if you find us all so freaking crazy?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

44. Yeah, who'd ever take "loonies" to mean "crazy"??

:eyes:

NGU.

[DistressedAmerican]

48. I Rephrase.

Why do you hang around if you think we are all so irrational?

[IChing]

53. By the logic of the arguement that saying dumb things is analogous with

not stating what dumb things are said. The PO has not stated
in examples or in any substance and attacks Cindy for dumb things
by not giving concrete examples of dumb things.

The orginal post is dumb in the sense that I'm not hearing it.

[knitter4democracy]

Oh, yeah, I'm such a threat.

:eyes: Me and my knitting needles.

You're saying she's a looney for attacking anyone for the war? Hmm. That is very interesting. Have you actually known anyone in the war or lost anyone close to you? Then why call her a looney for being 100% against the war and anyone for it?

Did I call you a fascist? Then why the lockstep reference? I'm a bit lost. I said she's not a party hack, so why would you march with her?

I do wonder why you feel it's okay to attack someone who has actually gotten off her ass and done something about this corrupt administration and disgusting war. She may not be perfect, as no one is, but at least she's made sacrifices and done something.

Frankly, Hilary could do with some heat from the left. She's been counting on us to march lockstep behind her, and she needs to know that she can't necessarily count on our votes unless she comes out against the war.

[TrueAmerican]

50. She's not the only one who has lost people in this war

So, you need to rethink your attack on me. I have not lost family members, but have lost close friends (several) and I also suffer from nightmares from serving in Iraq.

[knitter4democracy]

57. Then you know.

You must know how easy it is to get very angry. You must know how she must feel about every politician who says it's such a great thing to be over there and how every dead soldier is a hero who sacrificed himself or herself for . . . um . . . whatever the reason is this week. You must know how hard it is to be used for something and not be allowed to say what you really think because of someone else's agenda.

You attack her for having strong feelings and actually verbalizing them. Why? Is it because you think that's scary or the wrong thing to do? Why is passion for peace such a bad thing in your book?

Again, she's only saying what many have said here for a long time: that we can't out-Republican the Republicans and that Hilary and Ms. Feinstein are a little too close to the line. How is that an emotionally based argument? There's a lot of evidence for her position all over this site and many others.

[Cults4Bush]

61. Plenty of others in the same boat as you do support her.

Besides this is beyond politics and into the intrapersonal for her.

She is not a Dem AFAIK and people really need to stop trying to hold her accountable as if she needed to march in lockstep with party people of their own agenda seeking choice. Right left and in between.

Remember she has as much right to speak out in any way she wants just as much as you have a right to criticize her just as much as we who support her efforts towards the lofty goal she has set for herself have a right to criticize you.


Thank you for your service.

[ClassWarrior]

38. Yes. With knitting needles.

:sarcasm:

So you want to restrict what Cindy can say, but the REST of us are the ones who want people marching in lockstep??

:rofl:

NGU.

[knitter4democracy]

42. Cross-posted.

;)

[ClassWarrior]

46. You beat me to it!

B-) :thumbsup:

NGU.

[ultraist]

40. You sound overly emotional, desperate.

You need to calm down. You sound emotional.
Please pull it together.

[Skidmore]

35. Somebody's worried. Somebody's desperate.

And it's not Cindy.

[blogslut]

56. Thanksgiving in Crawford

I believe that's part of Ms. Sheehan's upcoming itinerary. Cindy's got some actions planned. Yeehaw. :)

http://www.periodico26.cu/english_new/world/cindy211005.htm

Be scared lil' neocon doggies.

[Junkdrawer]

43. Speaking of moles.....

:think:

[GrumpyGreg]

47. Cindy Sheehan couldn't make the Democrats look bad.

[Kralizec]

52. What are you talking about? Both Clinton and Feinstein are worthless.

Plus, Cindy was never on one side or the other. She's anti-war, and the group who allowed war includes people from both parties.

[meganmonkey]

55. Okay, simple question for you

Why should Cindy be obligated to support all Dems regardless of their unique viewpoints? It's not like they hired her as a spokeswoman...

:shrug:

[Wind Dancer]

58. I assume you agree with Clinton and Feinstein's pro-war policies.

Why accuse Cindy of saying "dumb stuff" instead of holding our political leaders responsible for supporting illegal war?

Just curious!
:shrug:

[Trajan]

59. She is calling them to the carpet ...

And while I will vote for Hillary should she be nominated: I will NOT brook her kowtowing to the warhawks ...

She gets my vote, with reservations ...

What more do you want ? .. slavish adoration ? ...

Sheehan is ok, and so is her expression of HER opinion ... the 'agreeable' Democrats need to get spanked, in public if need be, to 'correct' them ...

[NewInNewJ.]

60. You are slamming Cindy for not following

what stance you want. I think it's more important to slam or fight against the the Dem.leaders for not speaking up for what the Dem. supporters want . Cindy is a woman with a broken heart, who is fighting for her cause and for many of us. She doesn't have to tow the line of any party.

[Cleita]

64. For what it's worth, I totally agree with her about Dianne Feinstein

and I'm less than enchanted with Bill and Hillary these days too. So since Cindy doesn't belong to any political party, no she doesn't, she said so on Randi Rhodes Friday, I don't see why you think she should be upholding the Democratic Party. Apparently she's not as pissed off with us as she is the Republicans, but she's not one of us either. She has basically said her mission is to end this illegal war and I think we are all behind her on this.

[Disturbed]

68. I totally agree with her about Dianne Feinstein & H. Clinton.

BTW this place is not part of the Dem Party.

[lonestarnot]

71. Who are you trying to pull one over under on between.....Cindy has never

said anything that doesn't make sense. This war is a lie and anyone who supports it is a liar. See it is very simple. Not complicated at all and nobody but nobody LEADS Cindy anywhere. Cindy speaks for herself. Gentle, kind, and brilliant, with nothing left to loose, that would be Cindy. More Jesus-like than any of the sheeple that silently send their kids to die for lies because they "sport merica." dadertader Do you think a Mother that looses her son to lies could be led anywhere? Better spend some time tightening up some screws someplace!

[Bridget Burke]

72. Cindy Sheehan does not represent the Democratic Party

She represents herself--a mother who lost her son in an illegal, useless war. Many Democrats agree with her basic message. Plus some Independants & probably some Republicans. When it comes to Election Day, I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat. But some Democrats definitely deserve criticism.

She must be doing some good, since the Right Wing Talking Point Machine seems to be running overtime.

Edited to add: Who decided that Ms. Sheehan has "Jumped the Shark"? (A phrase that's begun appearing at DU.) Let Google do the walking. The first site is Democrats.com, in which the phrases are NOT linked. Guess what other sites appear?

www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=%22Cindy+Sheehan%22+%22jump+the+shark%22&btnG=Search