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3rd try - now that this is on TruthOut will DU FINALLY discuss it?

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:00 AM
Original message
3rd try - now that this is on TruthOut will DU FINALLY discuss it?
Bush to Blair: First Iraq, Then Saudi
By Marie Woolf
The Independent UK

Sunday 16 October 2005

George Bush told the Prime Minister two months before the invasion of Iraq that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran and North Korea may also be dealt with over weapons of mass destruction, a top secret Downing Street memo shows.

The US President told Tony Blair, in a secret telephone conversation in January 2003 that he "wanted to go beyond Iraq".

He implied that the military action against Saddam Hussein was only a first step in the battle against WMD proliferation in a series of countries.

Mr Bush said he "wanted to go beyond Iraq in dealing with WMD proliferation", says the letter on Downing Street paper, marked secret and personal.

No 10 said yesterday it would "not comment on leaked documents". But the revelation that Mr Bush was considering tackling other countries over WMD before the Iraq war has shocked MPs. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have been close allies of the US in the war against terror and have not been considered targets in relation to WMD.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101705Z.shtml
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. The bush** administration and corporate America have no allies. Not if
they have oil under their ground.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. What's so shocking? Just read the PNAC manifesto.
They planned a 50 Years War to remake the ME then move on to Asia. It was going to be a cakewalk, too. Just wait until we get those weapons in space.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. The US is running out of funding
as well as friends. The fascists pigs behind this grandiose plan do not come close to the genious and charisma of Hitler who managed to rally the German people (as well as a few other European Aryan types) behind the movement to take over Europe.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. we knew this way back then. we heard them say it
media never got outraged. ignored. but not didcussing it because it is a yep.

another yep

ok torture before the was. bush had a press conference that it was ok to torture, ignore geneva con.

yep
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Another true hallmark of fascism. Conquer the world..between the
US and Britain, don't we have all the firepower? I hate these two men.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. It's like it's all one big game of Risk to them.
Rolling WMDs means I get to attack again! The one thing that unites these neoconservatives is a lack of true military experience. You don't see military leaders like Myers or Tommy Franks this eager to start a war. If anything, the Joint Chiefs of Staff was warning against the Iraq War until they were sidelined by Rumsfeld & crew. I think men who have served in the miltary understand the real pain, fear, & horror of war. It isn't a game, & it isn't something you start without a damn good reason. There's some hope in this, I think. It feels like Bush can only push the military so far until they just stop supporting him.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. What kind of discussion do you want?
This is something most of us would agree to. Now we might disagree on how committed they are to those plans at this moment; I suppose that might be an area of discussion. But in general, any subject we all agree on is hard to discuss.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. How long until bush goes over the edge and attacks the U.S.?
Maybe he'll become like one of those insane mothers who kill their children because the world is "evil, evil, evil." In his twisted sphere of reference, he'll try to destroy the U.S. because he knows in his heart that WMD are here to stay. He just can't figure out that our arsenal of WMD is a major reason that other countries acquire them.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. he already has...
destroying the constitution, the bill of rights, jobs, pensions, states are broke, puts incompetents in charge of important life threatening jobs within government, destroyed the military, destroying everything we know as americans..destroying the middle class and just ripping the souls of the poor...what has he not destroyed would be a shorter question to answer!

fly
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. True, that.
I was thinking in terms of annihilation. What we're experiencing, though, does seem to be a slow death by a thousand cuts *sigh*
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm Not Sure Bush Had in Mind Invading All Those Countries
the word from the DoD community is that other countries would "look different" from Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not sure even Bush is so delusional as to think that the US military could be spread that thin.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. he never anticipated nor did the pnac'ers anticipate
a quagmire in iraq..they really were naive to think they would walk into iraq and then move on and take over the enitre mid east..that is what makes the Pnac'ers so dangerous...or one of the reasons..they are stupid and power hungry incompetents!they really thought their plans ( blueprint ) of PNAC would be easy...but its because none of these asshole ever fought in a frigging war..they are lifelong desk jockeys...what the hell do they know about war?????? they are the prima donnas who think up shit like pnac from a desk
( leo strauss)
without ever having done any job to qualify them to run a country let alone a country store!
these are the elite out of control...who think nothing of a war since they never had the freaking boots on...

its like a mother of a 2 day old baby telling other nothers how to raise their child...i always say, call me when your kid is 16 and we'll talk...

if unqualified people are allowed free hands at taking us to war..without the demand that they listen to those who are qualified ..well we are just sunk as a nation..but our forefathers knew this ..its why they tied to keep a balanced government...we just screwed it up royally as Americans..
we were caught asleep at the wheel...we should have all taken to the streets in 2000..each and every American should have taken to the streets..when the supreme court stripped our voting rights...we should have stopped these damn voting machines by any means possible..it should have been us in orange by the nation as a whole who protested these voting machines..

we should have been out in droves educating about these machines before it ever got this far..

its not the few of us who stand up..it should be all of us...

there should be millions protesting these media outlets..to smash these damn monopolies..
we should have paid attention when our own let the media corps take over our air waves...

Hillary was right when she long ago said it was a right wing conspiracy..and many of us giggled...

but did we all investigate if it really was ??..i know i didn't ..i believed her but i did not engage..in finding out the truth at that time...

yes i know many here did ..but we all should have...each and every American...

we must work as hard as possible..double what we think we can to take this nation back..and get the balance back in our government as our forefathers planned this republic...
brow beat everyone you know with the truth..will you loose friends..yes...is it worth it..yes...
fly

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well put and right on the money
I hope enough people will wake up and see what's happening. I just hope it isn't too late.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. Your point is important that now we have Bush saying it outright to Blair
But it's long been known that this was their plan.


From the PNAC Links Archive:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=121

___________________

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html

Mon Jul-14-03 08:40 PM

40. Practice to Deceive - Wash. Monthly -Joshua Micah Marshall 4/03-"

Practice to Deceive
Chaos in the Middle East is not the Bush hawks' nightmare scenario--it's their plan.
April 2003
By Joshua Micah Marshall

<snip>In their view, invasion of Iraq was not merely, or even primarily, about getting rid of Saddam Hussein. Nor was it really about weapons of mass destruction, though their elimination was an important benefit. Rather, the administration sees the invasion as only the first move in a wider effort to reorder the power structure of the entire Middle East. Prior to the war, the president himself never quite said this openly. But hawkish neoconservatives within his administration gave strong hints. In February, Undersecretary of State John Bolton told Israeli officials that after defeating Iraq, the United States would "deal with" Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Meanwhile, neoconservative journalists have been channeling the administration's thinking. Late last month, The Weekly Standard's Jeffrey Bell reported that the administration has in mind a "world war between the United States and a political wing of Islamic fundamentalism ... a war of such reach and magnitude the invasion of Iraq, or the capture of top al Qaeda commanders, should be seen as tactical events in a series of moves and countermoves stretching well into the future."

<snip>

Whacking the Hornet's Nest

If the Bush administration has thought through these various negative scenarios--and we must presume, or at least pray, that it has--it certainly has not shared them with the American people. More to the point, the president has not even leveled with the public that such a clean-sweep approach to the Middle East is, in fact, their plan. This breaks new ground in the history of pre-war presidential deception. Franklin Roosevelt said he was trying to keep the United States out of World War II even as he--in some key ways--courted a confrontation with the Axis powers that he saw as both inevitable and necessary. History has judged him well for this. Far more brazenly, Lyndon Johnson's administration greatly exaggerated the Gulf of Tonkin incident to gin up support for full-throttle engagement in Vietnam. The war proved to be Johnson's undoing. When President Clinton used American troops to quell the fighting in Bosnia he said publicly that our troops would be there no longer than a year, even though it was widely understood that they would be there far longer. But in the case of these deceptions, the public was at least told what the goals of the wars were and whom and where we would be fighting.

Today, however, the great majority of the American people have no concept of what kind of conflict the president is leading them into. The White House has presented this as a war to depose Saddam Hussein in order to keep him from acquiring weapons of mass destruction--a goal that the majority of Americans support. But the White House really has in mind an enterprise of a scale, cost, and scope that would be almost impossible to sell to the American public. The White House knows that. So it hasn't even tried. Instead, it's focused on getting us into Iraq with the hope of setting off a sequence of events that will draw us inexorably towards the agenda they have in mind.

The brazenness of this approach would be hard to believe if it weren't entirely in line with how the administration has pursued so many of its other policy goals. Its preferred method has been to use deceit to create faits accomplis, facts on the ground that then make the administration's broader agenda almost impossible not to pursue. During and after the 2000 campaign, the president called for major education and prescription drug programs plus a huge tax cut, saying America could easily afford them all because of large budget surpluses. Critics said it wasn't true, and the growing budget deficits have proven them right. But the administration now uses the existence of big budget deficits as a way to put the squeeze on social programs--part of its plan all along. Strip away the presidential seal and the fancy titles, and it's just a straight-up con. </snip>

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. its all in plain sight in the PNAC!! the whole * cabal blueprint!
read it..you can not discuss it without reading it in its entirety!!

its all there all the countries and the entire blueprint!

fly
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. Important topic.
I've enjoyed taking part in dozens of discussions about this general topic on DU. In the last week, for example, there were discussions on the New York Times' article that documented the spreading of violence at the border of Syria. One of our insightful DUers compared it to Nixon's tactics in Cambodia. There have probably been no less than 50 threads on the prospects for violence spreading to Iran; these include all of the neocon/AIPAC scandal threads, for that is exactly what that case is about. Bush has started a religious war in the Middle East, and religious wars rarely honor the boundries of nation-states.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well, Bush said he is the
war president. We all saw the clip of him stating "I am the war president".
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. It worries me that in our hatred for *, some of us don't want to deal..
Edited on Mon Oct-17-05 10:00 AM by tx_dem41
with WMD proliferation in countries like N. Korea and Pakistan.
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