Why are there so many posters on this board looking for fights?

[Neil Lisst]

I enjoy discussing the topics here with people who are here to enjoy themselves, to have fellowship with other progressives, to compare notes, to plan, to scheme, and to discuss areas in which we agree and disagree.

But in every thread I visit, I see contrarians, those who seem dead set on starting something with someone - anyone - for the sake of the the nonsense which follows.

The posters I am talking about seem to think every thread is political mosh pit, where the whole purpose is to madly collide without others. Some of us are here to listen to the concert, not get dragged into the mosh pit by those with nothing but time and anger on their hands.

I like good humor. Even in politics, I try to find a punchline. Like my hammering Bush today here:
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

I would like to ask for more civility and less insulting and namecalling. Is it really necessary to challenge every person on every point on which you disagree? There can't be legitimate differences of opinion? That kind of thinking is anathema to progressive thought, which favors hearing diverse opinions, and understanding the basis for each one.

[Mnemosyne]

1. Morning Neil!

I believe it's the tension waiting for Fitzgerald and the GJ to bring on the indictments. Emotions are running very high right now.
Everyone is worried deep down that we may have gotten our hopes up for naught.
Wait till the indictments come down, PARTY!!!
:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :applause:
:party: :toast: :smoke: :toast: :smoke: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

And then there's the full moon and lunar eclipse this a.m at 8:14!

[Neil Lisst]

10. Your post made me smile!

I don't use smilies, but I'm cool with others using them.

[Mnemosyne]

43. A smile a day keeps frustration at bay!! n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I like to think that one difference

between conservatives and liberals is that liberals are more tolerant of different opinions, and are willing to treat differing points of view with respect.

I, too, know from experience that there are posters on these boards who disagree, often vehemently, with my world view and concepts. One thing that I have found helpful is to try and find out where the poster is coming from. Why does he/she hold the views they do? Is it from personal experience, a background in a certain field, the area where they come from? While it doesn't change my mind or theirs, it does help me to try and understand what motivates them to object to my position.

I've found that, in general, people will explain their reasoning behind a position that attacks mine. If they refuse to reply, I figure one of two things-they've not checked "My Posts" for responses or they are just interested in stirring up trouble.

[Neil Lisst]

11. I try to avoid getting dragged into it, but sometimes you're in it ...

... before you know it.

I tend to write off vexatious people as not worth the trouble.

[oblivious]

3. Maybe parts of it's suspicion.

Of people using subtle means of advancing rightwing viewpoints here. If you don't call them on it, they'll take over, BY GOD!

[Neil Lisst]

12. I haven't seen many rightwing views, cloaked or otherwise ...

I love the fact that there are no trolls from the right allowed here. But there will always be someone claiming THE most moral position and telling others they are morally inferior for disagreeing.

Isn't that the essence of what wingers do?

[oblivious]

19. The trolls are funny. But for real controversy, go here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=124

[notadmblnd]

4. I don't believe I know what you are talking about?

perhaps your are just choosing topics that are controversial? Because it's been my experience that people are very civil here or at least more so than other boards.

I think the moderators go a little overboard at times in their attempt to keep this board PC.

BTW... you can find much humor in the lounge.

[Neil Lisst]

13. I've visited the lounge, and yes, it's crazy

tanks

[punpirate]

5. Democracy is...

... messy. Deal with it. Some aren't as nice as you may be.

Wade in and fight for your views. That's the way to be heard.

Cheers.

[oblivious]

8. Gulp. That sounds so...Rumsfeldian.

[punpirate]

20. Rumsfeld is a fascist...

... he doesn't know what democracy is.

Apparently, from your comment, neither do you.

Disagreement is at the heart of the democratic process. That disagreement can become heated. It is that to which I refer.

If you think the process should be neat and proper and free of any dispute, then you're advocating a totalitarian system. No dispute, no disagreement, no argument.

People disagree. Sometimes vehemently. If you believe it should be otherwise, then think about the lockstep agreement of the Republican Party under the helm of Bush, DeLay and Frist. They want a process without contention. Just as you do.

Cheers.

[oblivious]

21. Perhaps you've forgotten this famous quote...and your sense of humor.

http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&q=Rumsfeld+Democracy+is+messy&btnG=Search&meta=

[punpirate]

23. If Rumsfeld's comments form your model...

... for democracy, you're welcome to it.

Try the sophistry on someone less able to recognize it for what it is.

Cheers.

[oblivious]

24. Good Lord. This is pathetic. Sorry I even commented.

[punpirate]

32. Uh, huh...

... it is pathetic.

If you read my entire post, you would have understood that I was reiterating what Montesquieu has said--that where you find an orderly silence, there you will find tyranny.

Think about that, instead of trying to be your own apologist, far away from the concerns of Americans dealing with American problems--of which you are far removed--geographically, emotionally and nationally.

Cheers.

[oblivious]

34. Oh God, another lecture. That's a mighty big chip on your shoulder.

Sorry for trying to make a joke.

[patricia92243]

6. Use your "Ignore" Button and your "Hide Thread" - or just skip over the

posts/threads you don't like. DU is really a great place with great people.

[Neil Lisst]

14. I like it, but I don't like to use Ignore

I've never done that. It seems like covering ones' ears.

[H2O Man]

7. "Are you talking to me?

Are you talking to me? I don't see anyone else here. You MUST be talking to me!" I can't remember what movie that's from. Taxi Driver, or something like that. But it sums up some people's attitude.

Maybe people are on edge, because of issues like the Plame case, Louis F., and the Yankees losing. And maybe people take some of the behaviors that work for them within the context of their family life, and apply them here.

[Neil Lisst]

15. I think the degree of anger in one's life is reflected in one's posts

I'm not an angry person. Even when I'm scheming about what I'm going to do or say next regarding the pukes, I'm having fun.

They're so easy!

see ...
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst
shameless self-promotion ..

[Fuzz]

37. Damn, you took my "You talkin' to me?" response!

When I saw the thread title, that's the first thing that came to mind!


:)

[ProfessorGAC]

39. Taxi Driver Is Correct, Pal

You got it right on the context of your statement and the movie. Sometimes people just get chippy. I do it. Nothing personal, just strong opinions.
The Professor

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. Hu's causing trouble?

darn troublemakers!

:)

morning - I like the toon.

[Neil Lisst]

17. Thanks, Viva_La_Revolution

glad you enjoy

We have about 45 of them up there, some funnier than others, some really serious and not funny at all. Not much funny to say about New Orleans or the war.

[Zhade]

16. FUCK YOU!

Er, sorry, better up the dosage...

:smoke:

[Neil Lisst]

18. It works for me!

the dosage thing, I mean

[MADem]

22. People looking for a pissing contest often have issues in their personal

lives, I suspect. They are powerless at work or home, so they throw their weight around in virtual fashion.

I find the odd pessimists amusing. The ones who say ABANDON HOPE, the Dems will NEVER win! Then there's the ones who are such ideologues that they fail to see the forest because they are butt up against their favorite tree, and can't get past tactics to see strategy. And then there is the odd "stuck on stupid" type, who cannot agree to disagree, and will leap on you in other threads, pecking away!

I try to disagree without being disagreeable. I don't always succeed, but I do make the effort. This is a great venue for discussion of the issues, and there are more smart people here than not.

[Neil Lisst]

25. I can talk to pukes without getting nasty ...

... and do it all the time. Hell, half of the people I know and/or am kin to, for example.

This should be a place where the average poster doesn't get challenged on his liberal or progressive or Dem credentials because he doesn't agree on every point with the most extreme viewpoints.

Thanks for your comments.

[Perky]

26. Spot ON and Amen!!!

The lack of civility here borders on Hate Speech on issues of faith and religion.

ANd the DLCers and the Progressive....well perhaps that is not easlity recoved but we are all in this together and everybody want to get the Republicans out of office so where we are able we should try and get along.


I wish the Moderators would enforce the rules a bit better.

[papau]

27. The poster attitude should be as you say not looking for a fight - and

that is usually the way it s here.

However on hot button issues like the Israeli/Palestine conflict and religious discussions where the non-religious are determined that there 2 cents is heard, first, the board goes beyond conflict of opinion to a "your biased or illogical or just not as moral as I am"

Indeed for those watching and posting in these forums, the occurrence of "did you know" and "just wanted to understand your side's thinking" threads (on their face polite threads) that carry the "I want to help you get to the correct opinion because I am right and you are wrong, and you are wrong because you are stupid and use immoral or poor logic" has increased of late.

Simple conflict threads are no big deal - and indeed most folks welcome additional information.

But in your face attitude does get responded to - or ignored all together. For a while I ignored the dump on persons of faith threads - and indeed still tend to do so - but I don't like the - my - Democratic Party being seen by a newbie on the board as anti-believers. Being OK with a point of view you disagree with is different than being a representative - by membership in a group - of that point of view.

I think Skinner enforces a solid behavior code - and keeps this ship afloat.

The above is - as always - only IMHO (in my humble opinion) :-)

:toast:

:-)

[IntravenousDemilo]

28. Aww, Neil, we're just practising our arguing skills.

It's a workout. Gotta keep in trim for the long fight ahead, you know. Think of your opponents here as sparring partners rather than adversaries. Just punch back; we need you to be in shape, too.

BTW, I really like your handle. Clever. I'll bet no one in Freeperville would get it.

[Neil Lisst]

33. You know it. In freeperville, they don't have a funny bone.

They stick their funny bone up their ass, which is why they are (1) humorless, and (2) rigid.

[IntravenousDemilo]

40. My momma done told me

Never to stick my elbow in my ass, or was that in my ear? At any rate, I guess that's why Bush has such a funny walk. I think the W really stands for Waddler, not Walker.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Three words

Fuck off, woulja?

:evilgrin:

[rosesaylavee]

30. Right on Neil - When people resort to snarking

more often than not, the focus gets diffused and it then becomes all about that person's anger and not the topic.

I do think it important to disagree if need be and express that civilly as I learn the most from posts that explore both sides of an issue thoroughly. But I agree with you Neil, snotty, disruptive, dismissive posts are not helpful to the discussion or encouraging to new members.

[HomerRamone]

31. What's it to you?

You wanna make something out of it? ~(_8^(|)

[Neil Lisst]

35. Doh!

Thanks.

[Arkana]

36. Hey, what was that you said about my sister?

Come on, dude--I'll kick your FREAKIN' ASS!

:P

[William Bloode]

38. What gets me are obvious flame bait threads.

A good example is the huge spanking thread in general discussion. As if this topic has not been run in the ground, and anyone with use of the search function can clearly find a ton of threads on the subject.

Threads on red state bashing, Israel bashing, Palestinian bashing, and many others.

Why people start threads as such when they have all already been discussed to death is beyond me.

[Rowdyboy]

41. Often my views run contrary to popular opinion here....

I've been observing politics since 1968 and that perspective forces me to reject the popular outrage so frequently evident here. For example, I have little patience with the "impeach Bush" threads. Bush is not going to be impeached. The facts are that best case scenario for 2006 elections would leave Democrats barely winning both houses of congress. The idea that we could convince 1/3 of Republican senators to convict the bastard is sheer fantasy, yet many on DU consider you a traitor if you don't support that fantasy.

I'm not politically pure. I vote for Democrats but, as a Mississippian, often those Democrats are far more conservative than I am. I do so because I prefer the "lesser of two evils". Many here find that sort of reasoning to be selling out. I think its merely pragmatic.

I've learned to simply avoid threads where my views will be controversial. If someone wants to rant about how all Democrats MUST vote a certain way or be cast out as DINOs, I just pass on the thread. Who am I to rain on their parade of self-righteous indignation? Many are too young and inexperienced to comprehend that an Arkansas Democrat often can't vote the same way a Democrat from California or Vermont can.

Also, often the best way to get a response to a post here is to advocate extreme positions. Thats probably why so few of my posts receive a response-I'm more measured and less outraged than many of my friends here.

[DemonFighterLives]

42. when you first posted

I will say that I had my hackles up. It was a post about Dems getting their sh*t together and not having crappy candidates such as Mondale and Dukakis. Mondale happened to do a credible job and being from MN and watching the neocons tear him down after whacking Wellstone, I could barely take it.
I never had to alert since I figured you were against the repukes to some extent. I never use ignore or hide threads, but will avoid some where my "buddies" are hot under the collar. There are good days and bad and this place is so addicting. When you return the next day most of the battles are done and something entirely new is being haggled over.
:toast:

[helderheid]

44. You talkin' ta me? Wanna take it outside??

;)

kidding :)

[FlaGranny]

45. After reading this entire thread,

I believe I understand - I don't think you're objecting to argument and discussion, what you are objecting to is disagreement for the sake of disagreement and attempts at starting arguments over minor points. A few of the posters on DU just thrive on it. You'll see a thread start discussing an interesting issue, everyone discussing it, then BAM, there it is - a picky, unpleasant little post that was obviously put there to spoil the thread. Then you get about a dozen back and forth irrelevant posts about nothing. The adolescents must play, you know? ;-)

[NNN0LHI]

46. Yea it took me a few hours to get it too. I'm a little thick. Good post

All this post really does is make people think. Ain't nothing ever wrong with that. I think that is what the OP intentions were?

Don

[oblivious]

47. Ahem!

:evilgrin:

[Just Me]

48. 'cause,....there is a battle between pro-humanity and pro-self/ego.

You will note a difference between the self-serving, right-wing boards and the progressive, leftist boards.

Our "umbrella" allows the FAR left to participate without domination. Whereas, the right-wing boards are dominated by the FAR right.

Personally, I reject any position pretending "perfection". I reach towards common human experience and hopes which are NEVER perfect but NOBLE and decent and closer to loving than the crazy freakin' extremes upon whom I have little patience or time to spend.

[Neil Lisst]

49. Thanks for all the very positive comments.

Someone also mentioned the value of debate, which was not at all the topic, but the unnecessary rudeness that is practiced by some here, the gratuitous contrarian.

That person did not read the original post, or he might have recognized himself in this part:

"...contrarians, those who seem dead set on starting something with someone - anyone - for the sake of the the nonsense which follows."



http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[WilliamPitt]

50. Some people need hobbies

Some have made fighting here their hobby.

[Neil Lisst]

51. thanks, you said it well

I love to fight, just not with my side. I've seen how divisive it is, and how it comes from people who are in a state of hostility much of the time.

Arguing effectively does not involve accusing others of being heinous because they disagree with one's view on any topic.

[Skip Intro]

52. freedom of expression doesn't have to be pretty, And arbitrary limits

on that expression is worse than any perceived incivility - within the context of DU, at least. If someone attacks someone's character, they've crossed a line, a DU line, anyway. Those have always been the rules.

I'll reserve my right to express myself in a manner that best conveys what the hell it is I'm trying to say at the time, in the context of the situation.

As much a fan as I am of politeness, I don't like talk of limiting or discouraging any expression that doesn't violate DU's expressed rules.

[Neil Lisst]

53. Sur, I say sur, I demand satisfaction.

I have no problem with spirited argument, but "you're not really a progressive if you disagree with me about (topic)!" is not in the category of discussion you mention.

The ad hominem attacks on bona fides is tiresome, and that is my primary objection - the keepers of the dogma. And on the issue of regulation, I'm not suggesting anything more than self-regulation. I'm a free speech guy, and if someone wants to scream FUCK YOU to me, I'm not troubled. If they want to say I have to agree with them or be cast out of the party, then it's GO TIME.

[oasis]

54. May I suggest the lounge? Everybody seems to agree over there.

[Neil Lisst]

58. Ever since Fred Durst said it ...

I hope we're all in agreeance this war needs to get over as soon as it can.

[oasis]

62. I do agree.

:pals:

[Zomby Woof]

55. Deleted message

:hide:

56. I think humans like to try to dominate each other

or at least fight to see who should be on top, just like in the animal world. It gets tiring when there isn't a point behind it.

[mattclearing]

57. Welcome to the Internets!

People like to talk trash here. It's not just DU...actually, DU is pretty civil by most standards.

[Neil Lisst]

59. There is a certain, as the French say ...

..."I don't know what"

haha

I know what you mean. This ain't my first rodeo.

[Neil Lisst]

60. je ne sais quoi

yeah, that, too

[smartvoter]

61. It's really bad over the bird flu in particular. Bizarre, in fact.

We have DUers with relevant professional experience saying, "Yes, it's being exploited," but "the threat itself is real" and they are being just hammered. I watched one DUer in particular start s bizarre, borderline neurotic assault on a DU MD for backing the science. When he lost the argument -- much of which was so far out of line on his side I can't believe the mods let it slide -- he turned on her for "offering medical advice," which was pure b.s.

There have always been fights, but it's particularly ugly right now. I'm scanning for news but have significantly toned down my DU activity while this is going on. It's wasted energy.